View Full Version : CH-47 externally mounted twin 105mm howitzers
Interesting concept...
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/750150.pdf
It was an interesting design. IIRC though they found they were hard to aim, had a low ammunition capacity and the recoil was severely damaging the airframe
Failure2Stop
02-04-15, 10:04
This made my day.
America was awesome during the Cold War.
Talk about softening up the LZ! :)
"As shown in Figure 2, both XM204 soft-recoil howitzers are mounted for forward direct air-to-ground firing with automatic ammunition-loading mechanisms provided for rapid firing (30 rounds per minute each). The copilot is provided with a simple, fixed, depressible-reticle sight and laser rangefinder for aiming the helicopter/gun system for firing in this mode. Preflight adjustments of the howitzer elevation settings will allow for aiming the weapons with the helicopter at various airspeeds, rates of climb, and heights above the target."
Seems like a pretty righteous rate of fire for an airborne howitzer, even though it would probably have shaken the helicopter a bit :D
SeriousStudent
02-04-15, 22:13
I just want to make sure I stay legal with this.
Each howitzer is a tax stamp, right? And my co-pilot has to also be a co-trustee on my NFA trust, correct?
Cuz I gotta buddy who is a a high-time Chinook pilot..... :cool:
Co-pilot doesnt need to be on the trust if you are there.
So after the pilots go deff and the airframe rips in half how is this supposed to work? :-)
Have to give them credit for trying tho.
Mauser KAR98K
02-05-15, 07:07
Just the name on the study and the design makes it seem one of the engineer's kiss gave him the idea.
"What ya doing, Johnny."
"I'm playing Buck Rogers, killin bad guys with a twin mounted howitzer spaceship. "
"Reaaallllyyyy...."
Eh, wait till they package a rail gun on an air frame. Merica'.
Still pretty damn cool though.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-05-15, 16:02
How has this not made it into a Rambo or Expendables movie???
Do you shoot both at the same time to equal out the torque, or will that move the airframe back too much?
The PDF said it was a special "soft-recoiling" 105mm. Wonder exactly what that means......downloaded shells or advanced recoil system?
Inspiration right there. Drone, Go-Pro camera system, gimbal mounted twin Glocks w/electronic triggers and 33 rd. magazines. Hmmm.... :secret:
The PDF said it was a special "soft-recoiling" 105mm. Wonder exactly what that means......downloaded shells or advanced recoil system?
Maybe they were gonna fly one of those tank suppressor system things along side? Lolz
The PDF said it was a special "soft-recoiling" 105mm. Wonder exactly what that means......downloaded shells or advanced recoil system?
This is the howitzer in question:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDQDJnUJyl8
This is the howitzer in question:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDQDJnUJyl8
Interesting......that damn thing barely moves!
Cincinnatus
02-05-15, 20:41
Very innovative!
Can any of you cannon-cockers tell me if we still use anything with this "out of battery" recoil principle today?
SeriousStudent
02-05-15, 22:01
Co-pilot doesnt need to be on the trust if you are there.
That's the problem. Us old guys have to hit the head more often, and ya can't leave the bird unattended during a pit stop. Damn neighborhood kids will be climbing all over it before the rotors stop moving.
With my luck, some Federale would walk up just as I came back. "Sir, is this your helicopter? The one with two howitzers on it?"
Sigh......
That's the problem. Us old guys have to hit the head more often, and ya can't leave the bird unattended during a pit stop. Damn neighborhood kids will be climbing all over it before the rotors stop moving.
With my luck, some Federale would walk up just as I came back. "Sir, is this your helicopter? The one with two howitzers on it?"
Sigh......
There is a solution for that. A tactical cod piece with a hose running out the bottom of the helo. That way you can piss on the corpses of your enemies as you fly over. Or the pieces of the corpses of your enemies. it's a win-win. Oh who the hell are we kidding someone who has been hit by a 105mm HE round isn't going to be in pieces as much as obliterated so you're pissing on the area where the particles of the pieces of your enemies might lay, still a win-win and you don't have to land.
Regarding the howitzer itself, some research into the Army's historical site turned up this:
"The XM204 howitzer, the first artillery weapon to use the soft recoil concept, completed development. The process culminated with a development acceptance in-process review on 9 February 1978. Participants agreed that the howitzer had successfully completed development and recommended it be type classified standard. This recommendation was approved on 9 May 1978 by the Deputy Chief of Staff for Research, Development, and Acquisition. At the same time, he gave orders against its procurement."
No further details are mentioned.
Moose-Knuckle
02-07-15, 03:35
Anyone else have the theme song from Team America: World Police play in their heads as they read that PDF?
Regarding the howitzer itself, some research into the Army's historical site turned up this:
"The XM204 howitzer, the first artillery weapon to use the soft recoil concept, completed development. The process culminated with a development acceptance in-process review on 9 February 1978. Participants agreed that the howitzer had successfully completed development and recommended it be type classified standard. This recommendation was approved on 9 May 1978 by the Deputy Chief of Staff for Research, Development, and Acquisition. At the same time, he gave orders against its procurement."
No further details are mentioned.
So it was approved and then simultaneously rejected?
Apparently. The Secretary approved the type classification, which may have involved going from "XM204" to "M204" since it was now out of the experimental stage. He just cancelled any purchases of this gun.
During the mid to late-1970's the Army was juggling a number of expensive programs that were in the development stages (M1 Abrams tank, AH-64 Apache, MLRS, Copperhead guided artillery projectile, etc.). There probably were money issues and some items had to be sacrificed.
Reading through the history of Army procurement from that timeframe, the Army evidently was having doubts about the viability/effectiveness of the 105mm round, so that may have also been a factor.
Apparently. The Secretary approved the type classification, which may have involved going from "XM204" to "M204" since it was now out of the experimental stage. He just cancelled any purchases of this gun.
During the mid to late-1970's the Army was juggling a number of expensive programs that were in the development stages (M1 Abrams tank, AH-64 Apache, MLRS, Copperhead guided artillery projectile, etc.). There probably were money issues and some items had to be sacrificed.
Reading through the history of Army procurement from that timeframe, the Army evidently was having doubts about the viability/effectiveness of the 105mm round, so that may have also been a factor.
Uh yeah, we were in the midst of the first Obama administration, i.e. Jimmy Carter.
Eurodriver
02-07-15, 19:13
It's interesting that they tried it small scale first, with 173gr projectiles.
That's like...1% of a real 105mm shell?
Very innovative!
Can any of you cannon-cockers tell me if we still use anything with this "out of battery" recoil principle today?
No, all our howitzers use pretty standard hydro pneumatic recoil mechanisms
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here's another one out of the depths of Vietnam...
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-u-s-army-tested-a-helicopter-shotgun-armed-with-1-200-barrels-ce1ca126537d
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.