View Full Version : Flash Hider vs muzzle brake
I shoot my AR at the range.....don't really care if my "flash" is seen. With that said, does it make sense to swap it out with a muzzle break? What are the pros & cons of each? As you all know, recoil is not bad, but would it be much better with the brake? Assuming you would go with a muzzle break, which one? I read that some are very loud...to the shooter. I've also read great things about the AK type. Is it just plain wrong to put one of those on an AR?
The brake on my Colt MT6400 is OBNOXIOUSLY loud for the shooter and almost painful for anyone within 10 yds. I'm yet to do a side-by-side comparison to compare felt recoil and muzzle lift on a rifle w/ a brake versus one with a flash hider, but with .223/5.56, I can't imagine there's any discernible difference. Noise levels are definitely noticeable.
If I had to build a competition-only rifle, I'd consider a muzzle brake. On a shorter rifle with 16" (or so) barrel, I'm looking forward to switching to a flash hider.
In spite of what some will say, there is a difference. I had a 20" with a mini Y on it, the sights never left the target. With a fh, it will move some-enough to slow you down on the second and subsequent shot(s).
If you don't want or need a fh, then get a brake if you have a need for it.
The AK brake isn't as loud as the mini Y, no experience on others on AR's
I do have a Holland Quick Discharge Brake on a light .308 bolt gun and it feels like shooting an AR-less than. You can get them fron Brownell's. They're not excessively loud either.
For 99% of us we'll never use a flash hider for it's intended purpose. With that said, I hate brakes. I run a monthly carbine match and without fail every brake that I come across on another shooter's rifle is unbearable to stand next to. This means taht it is almost impossible to SO* the shooter, and I generally just plain refuse to. It's to the point that if shooters with brakes can't find someone to run them they're just going to be elminated from the match.
*"to SO" means to act as the safety officer for a shooter, which usually requires standing next to or immediately behind them while holding a timer and watching for safety violations.
MB's deliver a beating for sure. You could look at the TROY Medieval MB, it seems to be popular with some .Mil groups.
C4
Re: Troy muzzle brake, I have one perm. attached to a 14.5 barrel customized Stag upper built by Denny's Guns. I've run it through a couple of carbine classes and several thousand rounds and been happy with it.
Pat Rogers described the muzzle brake as a flash enhancer and he has photos of the flash signature (check the 10-8 Quantico 2006 AAR).
Other shooters on the line have asked "who's the guy with the flamethrower?"
I wouldn't recommend the muzzle brake to anyone who's legally allowed to own something else. Troy also makes a medieval flash supressor, no experience with it so I won't comment.
There are better alternatives to the Troy MB if you're looking to reduce muzzle flash.
Hope this helps.
For 99% of us we'll never use a flash hider for it's intended purpose. With that said, I hate brakes. I run a monthly carbine match and without fail every brake that I come across on another shooter's rifle is unbearable to stand next to. This means taht it is almost impossible to SO* the shooter, and I generally just plain refuse to. It's to the point that if shooters with brakes can't find someone to run them they're just going to be elminated from the match.
*"to SO" means to act as the safety officer for a shooter, which usually requires standing next to or immediately behind them while holding a timer and watching for safety violations.
You're kidding right? Please say you are kidding.....
Yes they are loud, and if they are right next to your head they will rattle your teeth, but as an SO you never have to get that close, and you are always behind the shooter. So from where an SO stands it's just not a big deal unless you have the sensibilities of a beat dog.
So please, if you aren't kidding, either man-up, or quit volunteering to do a job you aren't qualified to do.
It's just a loud noise for ****s sake.
You're kidding right? Please say you are kidding.....
Yes they are loud, and if they are right next to your head they will rattle your teeth, but as an SO you never have to get that close, and you are always behind the shooter. So from where an SO stands it's just not a big deal unless you have the sensibilities of a beat dog.
So please, if you aren't kidding, either man-up, or quit volunteering to do a job you aren't qualified to do.
It's just a loud noise for ****s sake.
No, I'm not kidding. And believe me when I say, I'm not too worried about somebody who's screen name is "mudbug" questionin my manhood.
You go be an 80 year old deaf man, I plan to hear every word my future grandkids utter.
No, I'm not kidding. And believe me when I say, I'm not too worried about somebody who's screen name is "mudbug" questionin my manhood.
You go be an 80 year old deaf man, I plan to hear every word my future grandkids utter.
Funny, you judge me for a stupid word that I thought sounded funny, so I used it for a sreen name.
Fine.
I'll judge you for being afraid of loud noises.
What are you using for earpro? cigarette butts?
Do you also refuse to SO people that want to run a 308?
Maybe you should switch to shooting rimfire matches.
Thanks for all the great info! Pretty much confirmed what I had already heard. It's interesting that some say it's not too loud & others say it's excessively loud. I'd love to see an article where someone uses a db meter on an AR before and after the fh / mb swap. One thing seems clear though, the noise level for anyone to the side of the muzzle break is a bit excessive. I don't think I'll put my fellow shooters through that.
Mudbug & rob_s: I appreciate the feedback, but it's not worth all that... put all that agression towards something constructive like hunting down illegals or better yet, playing lacrosse.
Funny, you judge me for a stupid word that I thought sounded funny, so I used it for a sreen name.
Fine.
I'll judge you for being afraid of loud noises.
What are you using for earpro? cigarette butts?
Do you also refuse to SO people that want to run a 308?
Maybe you should switch to shooting rimfire matches.
Jesus H. Christ what is your problem? Did you just wake up on the wrong side of life or do you have some axe to grind? Stop hijacking the guy's thread and move on with your life.
It's clear that you have no earthly idea what's involved in SOing or where a good SO should be standing. It's also clear that you have zero experience in what a brake like the Miculek sounds like to someone stanging where an SO should be. When I SO a rifle match I wear both plugs and muffs and it still rattles my teeth. No amount of appearing cool to some geek on the internet with an attitude problem is worth my hearing loss. You are welcome to go deaf if you would like to, I choose to protect my hearing.
laxman-
Unless you compete there really isn't any advantage to a muzzle brake over a flash suppressor. The advantage of the brake is that it makes for faster followup shots. This is a non-issue for shooting from a bench at a static range, unless you're getting into benchrest-style long range accuracy, and even then it's a competition thing.
Relax guys and please take your comments to one another offline.
I shoot my AR at the range.....don't really care if my "flash" is seen. With that said, does it make sense to swap it out with a muzzle break? What are the pros & cons of each? As you all know, recoil is not bad, but would it be much better with the brake? Assuming you would go with a muzzle break, which one? I read that some are very loud...to the shooter. I've also read great things about the AK type. Is it just plain wrong to put one of those on an AR?
I've heard that the Noveske brake is pretty good for being quiet and helping with recoil. IMO, a hydraulic buffer like the one enidine makes is better than a brake.
1st post here, been lurking for a while and I like to style of this forum, but back to the subject.
the role of a muzzle brake/comp is to reduce recol and sight movement. they do this be re-directing the muzzle gasses behind the bullet to go outward instead of forward.
the problem with the comp on the AR is the round does not recoil much, and the high gas flow makes it hard to design a comp where the sights stay netural.
there are a bunch of comps for the AR, and I've found most of them are junk.
they ether direct the muzzle blast back towards the shooter (the mni Y)
or they don't manage the gasses properly where while they take away the recoil, it increases sight movement over a straight flash hider (again the mini Y, and the egw e2 comp)
or worst yet, all they do is lighten your wallet and besides adding a little weight to the muzzle don't work at all (dpms levang)
the ones I've used and like all have straight baffles side ports, and have little or no upward ports. the best I've found is the JP enterprises comp. the one that looks like it came off of a M48 patton tank, and I've heard good thing about their cooley tactical comp.
http://www.jprifles.com/
the DPMS miculek comp is a close 2nd
http://www.dpmsinc.com/10Browse.asp?catID=1287
both of those mimimize recoil and sight movement, it's almost like dry firing with noise. they will also piss off the shooters next to you because they direct the muzzle blast straight out the sides.
Again, thanks for all the great info.
Re: Troy muzzle brake, I have one perm. attached to a 14.5 barrel customized Stag upper built by Denny's Guns. I've run it through a couple of carbine classes and several thousand rounds and been happy with it.
Pat Rogers described the muzzle brake as a flash enhancer and he has photos of the flash signature (check the 10-8 Quantico 2006 AAR).
Other shooters on the line have asked "who's the guy with the flamethrower?"
I wouldn't recommend the muzzle brake to anyone who's legally allowed to own something else. Troy also makes a medieval flash supressor, no experience with it so I won't comment.
There are better alternatives to the Troy MB if you're looking to reduce muzzle flash.
Hope this helps.
I had Denny put on the Troy Flash suppressor on a new 14.5" LMT upper seems to cut down on muzzle climb but haven't done any night firing to check muzzel the flash. It is a little different that the Muzzel break. May be good at both but haven't done any night firing but plan too.
http://www.troyind.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=41
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