View Full Version : block II CQBR or MK18 mod1
what's the right designation ?
block II CQBR or MK18 mod1 ?
who can tel me ?
Fasstasheck
02-10-15, 19:54
While a lot of people use the designation MK18 Mod 1, it's not an official designation.
The "Mod 1s" are issued as uppers only to be placed on an issue M4.
Even what most people call MK18 Mod 0's are CQBRs.
Thats what i understand to , as far as i know
I have already read that the "MK18mod1 designation" is a common misunderstanding due to the "Daniel Defense MK18 ris II rail "designation.
Is there some more "closing" information to find about the MK18-CQBR "correct" nomenclature ?
Thats what i understand to , as far as i know
I have already read that the "MK18mod1 designation" is a common misunderstanding due to the "Daniel Defense MK18 ris II rail "designation.
Is there some more "closing" information to find about the MK18-CQBR "correct" nomenclature ?
There's a pretty huge dedicated thread on TOS that has some good info. I'm the OP of the current iteration and I tried to describe it there.
But essentially there's no such thing as a "Mk 18 Mod 1".
The "Mk 18 Mod 0" was a complete weapon system issued in the Navy that came in either a 10.3" or 14.5" configuration.
The CQBR is just a 10.3" upper receiver meant to go atop a M4A1 lower (or in some cases, old M16s). Most of the "Mk 18s" you see aren't Mk 18s but just CQBRs from the original SOPMOD era. The current ones are just upgraded to be more in line with current SOPMOD accessories (Block II), so the DD rail, ATPIAL (LA-5), WMX-200, etc…
So, if you're looking for the uber nerdy technical correct term, it'd be something like "M4A1 with CQBR and SOPMOD Block II accessories".
But, if you're looking for what everyone knows them by, including those who carry them for a living, it's usually just "Mk 18".
Combat_Diver
02-15-15, 01:13
Concur with the above. The Mk18 is a Navy nomenclure and Army SOF its the RIS II URG. Its my retirement job now building them down range.
CD
Thanks for the info so far, guys !
So TC your the guy from "THE" mk18 thread :) i find its realy awesome, the most complete and informative guide so far, on the web, my compliments!
About the whole SOPMOD-CQBR-MK18-story there's plenty of information to find, just to a certain time, and ammount !
(for example there the CRANE presentations of the SOPMOD)
but the most recent developments are not documentated "officialy", anymore ?
Same for the MK18 blockII CQBR question, or the most recent SOPMOD contents .
Thanks for the info so far, guys !
So TC your the guy from "THE" mk18 thread :) i find its realy awesome, the most complete and informative guide so far, on the web, my compliments!
About the whole SOPMOD-CQBR-MK18-story there's plenty of information to find, just to a certain time, and ammount !
(for example there the CRANE presentations of the SOPMOD)
but the most recent developments are not documentated "officialy", anymore ?
Same for the MK18 blockII CQBR question, or the most recent SOPMOD contents .
Thanks. I'm no expert though, really I'm just an internet nerd with far too much time on my hands and a peculiar interest in these rifles.
I don't think you'll really find much documentation around a "Block II CQBR" because that's really two separate things. The "CQBR" is just one receiver, it's the same as it always has been. It's the "accessories" on it that have changed, including the rail system. And there's plenty of documentation out there on the latest "Block II" accessories of SOPMOD. An example:
http://d.pr/i/Touc+
But anyway, for the best information, Combat_Diver is really your man. The guy builds the real deal of these for work, and he's been incredibly generous with his time helping us with information and pictures. He could give you far more accurate information than I could.
sinlessorrow
02-15-15, 11:51
Pretty sure Mk18s actually have the whole CRANE info laser etched on the right side of the mag well. CQBR is a URG put on a M4A1 lower.
I agree with al those statements, seems very re reasonable to me !
But why named Daniel Defense the RIS II rail as the MK18 rail ?
Same for the KAC front flip up sight ?
I think these manufacturers-designations are causing the confusions !
Guns-up.50
02-15-15, 12:29
I agree with al those statements, seems very re reasonable to me !
But why named Daniel Defense the RIS II rail as the MK18 rail ?
Same for the KAC front flip up sight ?
I think these manufacturers-designations are causing the confusions !
There are several different versions of the Ris II rails from DD calling it a mk18 designates its intended use on sbrs
I mean this 9.5" version (https://danieldefense.com/mk18-rail-interface-system-ii-ris-ii-1102.html) in there description there declaring its developed for the MK18 ?
Combat_Diver
02-18-15, 01:24
I mean this 9.5" version (https://danieldefense.com/mk18-rail-interface-system-ii-ris-ii-1102.html) in there description there declaring its developed for the MK18 ?
Can't comment on the deveolpment but several different DD RIS II are fielded for both 10.3" and 14.5" bbls. They may use either a low profile gas block or FSB depending on issue. Did see my first 14.5" FSB DD rail in the field yesterday (had some NIW in Astan to issue and field but demand was for the 10.3" low profile ones) Have some of the 10.3" and 14.5" low profile DD rails in Kuwait for rebuilds.
CD
Combat_Diver
02-18-15, 11:42
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_0291_rz.jpg
CD
Here's mine...I can give the specs if you want, as best I know them at least.43186
*edit...just realized this thread was forever old
Singlestack Wonder
01-04-17, 11:07
Did the original MK18's have a 10.5" barrel instead of the current 10.3" configuration?
As far as i know the MK18mod0 can have either a 14.5" Government profile barrel , or a 10.3" CQBR barrel
Navy guns with RIS IIs are called Mk18 Mod 1s AFAIK. last I saw, there was a Mk18 Mod 1 with 10.3" barrel and DD Mk18 RIS II and a Mk18 Mod 1 with 14.5" barrel and DD M4A1 RIS II.
As far as i know the MK18mod0 can have either a 14.5" Government profile barrel , or a 10.3" CQBR barrel
A MK18 has a 10.3" barrel. A M4 has a 14.5" barrel. Some MK18 Mod 0's had 10.5" LMT barrels but most were 10.3" Colt barrels cut down from Colt 14.5" barrels.
Outlander Systems
01-05-17, 06:58
What buffer weights are ya'all running in these?
Concur with the above. The Mk18 is a Navy nomenclure and Army SOF its the RIS II URG. Its my retirement job now building them down range.
CD
A MK18 has a 10.3" barrel. A M4 has a 14.5" barrel. Some MK18 Mod 0's had 10.5" LMT barrels but most were 10.3" Colt barrels cut down from Colt 14.5" barrels.
A Mk18 with a 14.5" barrel is still a Mk18. Just like an M4A1 that has a CQBR (10.3" barrel) upper added is still an M4A1.
Combat_Diver
01-09-17, 18:47
What buffer weights are ya'all running in these?
Buffer for all USSOCOM Mk18 Mod 0, Mod 1s, M4A1 and URGs are H3s. That includes guns belong to all branches of service. MK18 Mod 0 were reported to have some LMT 10.5" bbl's but I've never seen them during the 2+ yrs a SOCOM armorer down range. Its either a NAS Crane cut down 14.5" Gov't profile to 10.3" or 14.5" Govt profile or SOCOM.
CD
Outlander Systems
01-09-17, 18:54
Roger that. Thanks.
Buffer for all USSOCOM Mk18 Mod 0, Mod 1s, M4A1 and URGs are H3s. That includes guns belong to all branches of service. MK18 Mod 0 were reported to have some LMT 10.5" bbl's but I've never seen them during the 2+ yrs a SOCOM armorer down range. Its either a NAS Crane cut down 14.5" Gov't profile to 10.3" or 14.5" Govt profile or SOCOM.
CD
A Mk18 with a 14.5" barrel is still a Mk18. Just like an M4A1 that has a CQBR (10.3" barrel) upper added is still an M4A1.
That's not really how it works. Most MK18s are built on Colt M4 or M-16 lowers. That does not make them a M4 or a M-16. This whole area is gray and convoluted.
Buffer for all USSOCOM Mk18 Mod 0, Mod 1s, M4A1 and URGs are H3s. That includes guns belong to all branches of service. MK18 Mod 0 were reported to have some LMT 10.5" bbl's but I've never seen them during the 2+ yrs a SOCOM armorer down range. Its either a NAS Crane cut down 14.5" Gov't profile to 10.3" or 14.5" Govt profile or SOCOM.
CD
I just checked our entire ODA's weapons and all buffers are H2, not H3.
Rick
Here's mine...I can give the specs if you want, as best I know them at least.43186
*edit...just realized this thread was forever old
Is that an issued SF micro?
Any comments on performance?
Is that an issued SF micro?
Any comments on performance?
We have several issued aimpoint micros (at least 3), but I havent seen anyone on the team put one on their rifles. Personally I shoot an EOTECH better and havent had any issues with the current model. That said, both my MK18 and MK17 wear ELCANs (1-4x and 1.5-6x respectively) due to the nature of the current deployment.
Rick
Combat_Diver
01-11-17, 06:32
I just checked our entire ODA's weapons and all buffers are H2, not H3.
Rick
Rick, You're right H2's! CRS and being really busy messes me up :D Thanks for the correction.
CD
We have several issued aimpoint micros (at least 3), but I havent seen anyone on the team put one on their rifles. Personally I shoot an EOTECH better and havent had any issues with the current model. That said, both my MK18 and MK17 wear ELCANs (1-4x and 1.5-6x respectively) due to the nature of the current deployment.
Rick
Sorry, I was referring to the silencer. Thanks though, that's interesting.
I like it although I feel the EoTech I had previously was much faster. I just couldn't get past the nagging feeling that the zero was drifting even though I had no problems with it prior to the drifting zero issues coming to light. Paranoid I guess.
Oh, sorry that was show and tell. It's still fairly loud. But no flash and zero poi shift. It's cool for what it is but the mini is better.
Sorry, I was referring to the silencer. Thanks though, that's interesting.
Reading comprehension kills me sometimes.
Rick
Question. And my sincerest apologies if was covered as I didn't read it.
For the barrels that are cut down to 10.3" are the ports opened up at all from the factory .0625 spec?
Much obliged.
sinlessorrow
02-09-17, 22:58
Question. And my sincerest apologies if was covered as I didn't read it.
For the barrels that are cut down to 10.3" are the ports opened up at all from the factory .0625 spec?
Much obliged.
Opened up to .070" or .071", can't remember exactly which one.
Yes, they are opened up. Both numbers have been cited. I would default to the .071 size.
Question. And my sincerest apologies if was covered as I didn't read it.
For the barrels that are cut down to 10.3" are the ports opened up at all from the factory .0625 spec?
Much obliged.
556BlackRifle
02-10-17, 11:01
I like it although I feel the EoTech I had previously was much faster. I just couldn't get past the nagging feeling that the zero was drifting even though I had no problems with it prior to the drifting zero issues coming to light. Paranoid I guess.
I have no problem with my EoTech. For me, it works better than any of my red dots. That said, I shoot it at fairly close ranges and fairly stable temperatures.
Has somebody already seen the SureFire SOCOM monster version in use with US military forces ?
Has somebody already seen the SureFire SOCOM monster version in use with US military forces ?
CD Posted a pic awhile back of some 10.3" uppers from 20th SFG equipped with mini monsters. IIRC they were purchased with state funds. I'm sure he can repost it here for you if he comes across this thread again.
The only issued suppressors that are part of the SOCOM contract are the standard Surefire SOCOM RC and the KAC NT4.
thx you still know where he posted that pic ?
Instaurator
02-10-17, 15:37
Concur with the above. The Mk18 is a Navy nomenclure and Army SOF its the RIS II URG. Its my retirement job now building them down range.
CD
Sounds like the best job ever.
Buffer for all USSOCOM Mk18 Mod 0, Mod 1s, M4A1 and URGs are H3s. That includes guns belong to all branches of service. MK18 Mod 0 were reported to have some LMT 10.5" bbl's but I've never seen them during the 2+ yrs a SOCOM armorer down range. Its either a NAS Crane cut down 14.5" Gov't profile to 10.3" or 14.5" Govt profile or SOCOM.
CD
I had one of the LMT MOD 0s back in 2007. It was a standard LMT 10.5" upper with a Knights RAS.
sinlessorrow
02-10-17, 21:51
Buffer for all USSOCOM Mk18 Mod 0, Mod 1s, M4A1 and URGs are H3s. That includes guns belong to all branches of service. MK18 Mod 0 were reported to have some LMT 10.5" bbl's but I've never seen them during the 2+ yrs a SOCOM armorer down range. Its either a NAS Crane cut down 14.5" Gov't profile to 10.3" or 14.5" Govt profile or SOCOM.
CD
I thought the buffer was a H2? Did they change to H3 at some point?
I thought the buffer was a H2? Did they change to H3 at some point?
CD corrected himself.
I just checked our entire ODA's weapons and all buffers are H2, not H3.
Rick
Rick, You're right H2's! CRS and being really busy messes me up :D Thanks for the correction.
CD
sinlessorrow
02-11-17, 13:43
CD corrected himself.
Ahh, overlooked that post. Thanks.
CD Posted a pic awhile back of some 10.3" uppers from 20th SFG equipped with mini monsters. IIRC they were purchased with state funds. I'm sure he can repost it here for you if he comes across this thread again.
The only issued suppressors that are part of the SOCOM contract are the standard Surefire SOCOM RC and the KAC NT4.
Think i found the photo :)http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_0363_rz.jpg
Are the Surefire Mini RC's (non-monster) issued to , along the big RC's ?
And is there a big difference in suppression ?
Think i found the photo :)http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_0363_rz.jpg
Are the Surefire Mini RC's (non-monster) issued to , along the big RC's ?
And is there a big difference in suppression ?
Using state funds to purchase the mini-monsters doesn't really equate to being issued. Across different USASOC/JSOC elements the SOCOM RC is the only 5.56 suppressor I have seen issued. There are still some of the old KAC cans around (mostly on AFSOC weapons from what I have seen) but they are old and need to be replaced.
I have no issues shooting the RC can on a MK18 upper without ear pro outdoors. My only complaint would be the flash hider with open tines - they seem to get bent/dirty very quickly to the point where you have to pry your suppressor off. Some refuse of ours refuse to even mount suppressors any more. I havent had that issue with any of the surefire closed tine models.
Rick
Thx for your clarifying reply, Rick !
The "normal" mini's are seen as wel, i suppose they are issued to ?!
And like you mention, due to the slight taper design of the FH, it could be expected that the cans really get blocked.
Thx for your clarifying reply, Rick !
The "normal" mini's are seen as wel, i suppose they are issued to ?!
And like you mention, due to the slight taper design of the FH, it could be expected that the cans really get blocked.
I havent seen a mini suppressor of any sort in 5.56.
Military guns are put through abuse that most other firearms will never see. We have had the surefire flash hiders with tines bent in blocking the path of the bullet or bent out preventing the mounting of a suppressor. I am not a fan of the design - personally I'm waiting on a closed tined Warcomp if it ever makes it over here.
I mean this ones :
SOCOM 556 RC (http://www.surefire.com/socom556-rc.html)
SOCOM 556-mini (http://www.surefire.com/socom556-mini.html)
http://i.imgur.com/5E8usUO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CsgXaUH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OlupThY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2EcVnuj.jpg
I havent seen a mini suppressor of any sort in 5.56.
Military guns are put through abuse that most other firearms will never see. We have had the surefire flash hiders with tines bent in blocking the path of the bullet or bent out preventing the mounting of a suppressor. I am not a fan of the design - personally I'm waiting on a closed tined Warcomp if it ever makes it over here.
Cloners are paying big money for the 4-prong SureFire flash hiders, despite SF saying that the 3-prong is "better." I would expect the 3-prong to be a bit stronger per prong, which is probably what SF is implying, but you guys could probably still bend them. (Are you bending the FN 3-prongs on your SCARs?).
I noticed DSG Arms has the closed-tine Warcomp for pre-order, but I doubt that does you any good down range.
I mean this ones :
SOCOM 556 RC (http://www.surefire.com/socom556-rc.html)
SOCOM 556-mini (http://www.surefire.com/socom556-mini.html)
http://i.imgur.com/5E8usUO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CsgXaUH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OlupThY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2EcVnuj.jpg
Those pics are from 28th EOD. They get attached with SOCOM units but aren't technically part of the same SOCOM supply chain that SF groups are. You can see in the pics they run a bunch of non-SOPMOD stuff like (EOTech XPS, Surefire 720v, closed-tine flash hiders, Surefire mini cans, DD Lite Rail FSPs, etc…). Those items are all a unit-level purchases to supply the company, not technically part of the SOPMOD/SOCOM contract. They basically have unit-level items that are all similar to their SOPMOD counterparts (SU-231a, Insight WMX-200, Surefire 4 prong, Surefire SOCOM RC cans, DD RIS II, etc…)
So it just depends on what you mean by "being used". Are Surefire minis at some level approved for use and being fielded? Most definitely. Are they part of the larger, standardized SOCOM contract? No. There's only 2 cans there, the NT4 and SOCOM RC (Gen 1).
thx for the reply TC, its clear
Cloners are paying big money for the 4-prong SureFire flash hiders, despite SF saying that the 3-prong is "better." I would expect the 3-prong to be a bit stronger per prong, which is probably what SF is implying, but you guys could probably still bend them. (Are you bending the FN 3-prongs on your SCARs?).
I noticed DSG Arms has the closed-tine Warcomp for pre-order, but I doubt that does you any good down range.
The 3 prongs would logically be stronger. My MK17 runs muzzle down on the floorboard in the unarmored pretty much all day over some rough terrain without any issue. But the issued suppressor for that gun is garbage.
Also - I was an EOD tech back when the 28th was getting stood up. Ive been out of that community for a while but it looks like they have gotten serious about that mission (as well as the funding to go along with it). Thats good to see because the rest of the EOD community isnt doing as well lately.
Rick
Combat_Diver
02-25-17, 20:48
Sorry for the delay been busy as usually. As some of you know I was a SOCOM weapons instructor/depot level repair on these guns (along with Minigun, M3 84mm Carl G and Mk47 40mm ALGL) for 2 yrs down range.
Here's the pictures of the Mini Monster 20th SFGA had in Kuwait along with non issued SOCOM Samson rails (unit funds) Unit took back the Elcans for some reason and they deployed with older TA01NSN ACOGs.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_0363_rz.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_0341_rz.jpg
All Army SOF, Navy SOF, AF SOF that I've worked with down range all used the SF SOCOM suppressor. Only ones still not using them and sticking to the KC NT4 is MARSOC.
CD
Thx for the pic's CD.
From what's been told before, i understood the "Monsters" are not really issued by SOCOM, but rather purchased with state funds.
friendlyfireisnt
02-26-17, 13:16
Sorry for the delay been busy as usually. As some of you know I was a SOCOM weapons instructor/depot level repair on these guns (along with Minigun, M3 84mm Carl G and Mk47 40mm ALGL) for 2 yrs down range.
Here's the pictures of the Mini Monster 20th SFGA had in Kuwait along with non issued SOCOM Samson rails (unit funds) Unit took back the Elcans for some reason and they deployed with older TA01NSN ACOGs.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_0363_rz.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_0341_rz.jpg
All Army SOF, Navy SOF, AF SOF that I've worked with down range all used the SF SOCOM suppressor. Only ones still not using them and sticking to the KC NT4 is MARSOC.
CD
Interesting.
Not to divert the thread, but how did those Samson rails hold up over time?
Not to get to far off topic, but can anybody tell me the differences and why there are 2 different surefire 4 prong flash hiders...the FH556-216A M16 labeled one(which has the slots on each of the prongs) and the FH556RC 1/2-28 4 prong. Which one is the clone correct one for the later block II's as the early block II's had the NT4.
Not to get to far off topic, but can anybody tell me the differences and why there are 2 different surefire 4 prong flash hiders...the FH556-216A M16 labeled one(which has the slots on each of the prongs) and the FH556RC 1/2-28 4 prong. Which one is the clone correct one for the later block II's as the early block II's had the NT4.
The first one you listed is for mounting the older FA556 can.
The second one you listed, the "RC" is the correct flash hider for Block II clones and will correctly mount the SOCOM RC can. It's also not sold to civilians and can be somewhat hard to track down (although it's gotten a little easier in the last year). Expect to pay about $250 - $350 for one depending on condition.
Combat_Diver
02-26-17, 19:18
Thx for the pic's CD.
From what's been told before, i understood the "Monsters" are not really issued by SOCOM, but rather purchased with state funds.
Correct Monsters purchased with unit funds.
Interesting.
Not to divert the thread, but how did those Samson rails hold up over time?
The team was there for 6 months. No issues during that time.
CD
Is there a specific reason why SOCOM don't issue the monster version, and the 20th SFGA purchased them anyway ?
Combat_Diver
02-27-17, 10:58
Is there a specific reason why SOCOM don't issue the monster version, and the 20th SFGA purchased them anyway ?
Which came first? Monster didn't come out until after the SOCOM RC and been bought and issued.
CD
OK, you mean SOCOM invested already in a very large batch of RC's, and wont switch immediately to the newest model on a large scale, due to budget reasons ?
How's the performance of the mini SureFire SOCOM's, compared tot the full length RC's , BTW ?
OK, you mean SOCOM invested already in a very large batch of RC's, and wont switch immediately to the newest model on a large scale, due to budget reasons ?
How's the performance of the mini SureFire SOCOM's, compared tot the full length RC's , BTW ?
The regular 5.56 SOCOM is right on the edge of hearing safe, I imagine anything more compact wouldn't be. The length added to a 10.3" MK18 is pretty minimal already. I can't imagine wanting anything shorter. The latest model is the RC2, which doesn't offer significant improvement over the issued SOCOM RC to justify a new contract. Maybe it will happen in the future, but I honestly can't think of a reason to unless surefire came up with a smaller/lighter suppressor that had the same level of performance.
Rick
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