View Full Version : Greatest Achievement: The Roman Coloseum or the Pyramids at Giza...?
At the time in 80 A.D. the Coloseum was the largest building in ancient Rome. It is still the largest structure of it's kind in the world. In addition to being an architectural accomplishment, it was an engineering masterpiece unlike anything the world had ever seen before. Elaborate underground staging and mechanics still confound modern scholars who try to reproduce them with technology available at the time.
The Pyramids of Giza of course were still the largest structures built by man even by the time of the Coloseum. Of course by 80 A.D. the pyramids had already existed for more than 2,000 years and it wouldn't be until the Eifel tower that man built something taller. While less sophisticated in terms of application than the Coloseum, the pyramids still cause debate as to how they were built with such precision and scale with the existing technology of their time.
Moose-Knuckle
02-14-15, 03:05
Of the two choices given, I'd say the Roman Colosseum. Not only did it possess the elaborate underground works you mentioned, it had a retractable canopy something that modern arenas didn't have until 1961 not to mention the pumping system that allowed it to be flooded for naval battles.
If we're going with the "official" history of the Great Pyramids, its quit boring being nothing more than a burial tomb for someone who was way over compensating for something . . .
Eurodriver
02-14-15, 05:20
My vote goes to the pyramids.
Imagine what the pyramids would have looked like with technology 2000 years in the future! Unfair comparison IMHO. That's like comparing the coliseum to the SuperDome and saying "Which one is more advanced?"
4000 years old. Big as ****. Pyramids all day long
Sidetrack: why did cultures from all over the world develop pyramids despite no contact with one anther. ?
My vote goes to the pyramids.
Imagine what the pyramids would have looked like with technology 2000 years in the future! Unfair comparison IMHO. That's like comparing the coliseum to the SuperDome and saying "Which one is more advanced?"
4000 years old. Big as ****. Pyramids all day long
Sidetrack: why did cultures from all over the world develop pyramids despite no contact with one anther. ?
I agree.
I've often wondered how ancient civilizations managed to build structures that closely resembled one another despite no outside contact.
Check out Puma Punku in Bolivia.
Outlander Systems
02-14-15, 07:25
Pyramids. We couldn't build them today if we wanted to.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-14-15, 09:11
If you take the number of people killed in the games in the Colosseum by the number of years, it comes out to something like a million people killed there- kind of creepy.
The pyramids originally were covered in white limestone, and would have been hard to look at in full sun.
The Great pyramid has about the same volume as the Hoover Dam, so all this talk about, 'we couldn't do it now' is pretty much BS. Pyramids all look similar because that is pretty much the easiest way to make something that tall be stable and efficient in materials. It basically a pile, no esoteric technology there. It's not like its cantilevered or something.
The Colosseum is still around, and was used in one way or the other for over 1000 years. Our modern Colosseums have life spans of what, 20 years? The Rams are already complaining about their dome.
It is kind of amazing that Cleopatra is closer to our time than she is to the building of the Great Pyramid, by like 400 years.
I have seen both and I will have to say that the Roman Colosseum is by far the most impressive. It was not as massive but it was much more complex. The Pyramids at Giza are just massive but they are essentially just blocks stacked on top of each other. The Colosseum took about 7 to 8 years to complete and the Pyramids took about 30 years. If you think about it those time lines compared to construction today are pretty good....I guess they did not have Union labor...... ;)
As for why did cultures all over the world build similar pyramids? Simple, it is a basic and the easiest shape to build. Why are walls all over the world similar or swords? People have been making spears for thousands of years and they did not look up the plans on the Web. It is just a simple design that you will eventually come up with if you are trying to build things.
Millions of people killed in the Colosseum and I would bet over twice that killed making the Great Pyramids.
I still think that the New Cowboys Stadium in Arlington is more impressive than both of them.... :jester:
A third one to put in the running is women's exercise/yoga pants and the masterpieces of art that fill many of them.
Averageman
02-14-15, 15:38
http://www.amusingplanet.com/2015/02/4-ancient-roman-amphitheatres-still-in.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+amusingplanet+%28Amusing+Planet%29
About 230 amphitheatres have been found across the width and breadth of the Roman Empire. Many of these are still standing in different states of preservation, and quite a few of them still holds regular events like music concerts till this date.
But I still have to give the nod to Yoga Pants.
BoringGuy45
02-14-15, 16:16
The Romans were, in my opinion, the greatest builders of the ancient world. The Colosseum is the basis for pretty much all modern stadiums in the world. While the Pyramids are amazing, their legacy is limited compared to what the Colosseum is.
Eurodriver
02-14-15, 18:00
A third one to put in the running is women's exercise/yoga pants and the masterpieces of art that fill many of them.
Your posts have been on point lately!
Pyramid, Schmyramid.
Everything is easy when you have alien technology.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/Angkor_from_Lake.jpg
I'm partial to this. Not as tall as others, not as old as others but its beauty and complexity is captivating.
SeriousStudent
02-14-15, 22:11
Angkor Wat is an impressive place.
My vote goes to the pyramids.
Imagine what the pyramids would have looked like with technology 2000 years in the future! Unfair comparison IMHO. That's like comparing the coliseum to the SuperDome and saying "Which one is more advanced?"
4000 years old. Big as ****. Pyramids all day long
Sidetrack: why did cultures from all over the world develop pyramids despite no contact with one anther. ?
Because stacking blocks to a common point is a typical human design. The Egyptians, Mayans and the rest had not invented the Roman arch keystone yet.
http://memecrunch.com/meme/2ROIV/aliens-guy/image.png
http://memecrunch.com/meme/2ROIV/aliens-guy/image.png
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I would vote for the Colosseum. Way more stuff going on. The pyramids are very impressive however.
Even kids that play with building blocks make pyramids as some of their first designs. Examining ancient achievements like these make the degradation of human DNA over time more apparent.
Because stacking blocks to a common point is a typical human design. The Egyptians, Mayans and the rest had not invented the Roman arch keystone yet.
Moose-Knuckle
02-15-15, 23:29
Pyramids all look similar because that is pretty much the easiest way to make something that tall be stable and efficient in materials. It basically a pile, no esoteric technology there.
The Pyramids at Giza are just massive but they are essentially just blocks stacked on top of each other.
As for why did cultures all over the world build similar pyramids? Simple, it is a basic and the easiest shape to build. Why are walls all over the world similar or swords? People have been making spears for thousands of years and they did not look up the plans on the Web. It is just a simple design that you will eventually come up with if you are trying to build things.
Exactly, pyramids are merely stacking giant stones on top of one another. Given time, it's doable.
Moose-Knuckle
02-15-15, 23:31
I use to work at a structural engineering firm, most experts revel at The Pantheon, considered Rome's greatest building feat by many. The building materials, method, etc. all mind blowing and unlike most other cultures the Romans wrote down and recorded everything.
I use to work at a structural engineering firm, most experts revel at The Pantheon, considered Rome's greatest building feat by many. The building materials, method, etc. all mind blowing and unlike most other cultures the Romans wrote down and recorded everything.
There was an excellent NOVA documentary on that and the restoration process taking place. Loved the whole locking block thing at the bottom of each column and how the original wood pieces are still being used.
I have been to the Colosseum, but not the pyramids. Considering all the factors involved I think the pyramids are probably one of the most remarkable achievements in the world.
On scale and logistics, probably the pyramids. Like was said earlier, they were originally covered with limestone and smooth surfaced. Plus, it isnt like you see giant rocks all over Egypt (thoug maybe there were...?).
For complexity, the Coliseum. The canopy, the water works, the infrastructure, the sheer size (50,000 person capacity), the lack of competing designs compared to the rest of Europe at the time. Though there were probably similar arenas wherever Games were played.
I would consider all of the alignments and astronomy that is involved with the pyramids as well.
On scale and logistics, probably the pyramids. Like was said earlier, they were originally covered with limestone and smooth surfaced. Plus, it isnt like you see giant rocks all over Egypt (thoug maybe there were...?).
For complexity, the Coliseum. The canopy, the water works, the infrastructure, the sheer size (50,000 person capacity), the lack of competing designs compared to the rest of Europe at the time. Though there were probably similar arenas wherever Games were played.
The Coliseum is probably the most complex structure made before modern tools and equipment, but Puma Punku and the Sacsayhuaman ruins in Cusco, Peru should get honorable mention. The main stone in this picture is estimated between 150-200 tons, and this is at over 11,000 feet elevation!
https://i0.wp.com/davidgalsworthy.jalbum.net/One%20Year%20In%20Peru/slides/Sacsayhuaman%201.jpg
Gobekli Tepe in Turkey is also pretty fascinating, seeing as it's estimated to be about 7,000 years older than the Egyptian ruins. They say it may take another 50 years to uncover it completely, as they didn't begin excavation until 1995.
http://blueprintmasonry.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Gobekli-Tepe.jpg
crusader377
02-16-15, 13:17
On scale and logistics, probably the pyramids. Like was said earlier, they were originally covered with limestone and smooth surfaced. Plus, it isnt like you see giant rocks all over Egypt (thoug maybe there were...?).
For complexity, the Coliseum. The canopy, the water works, the infrastructure, the sheer size (50,000 person capacity), the lack of competing designs compared to the rest of Europe at the time. Though there were probably similar arenas wherever Games were played.
+1, Although both the Romans and ancient Egyptians were some of the great builders of the ancient world, I think the Romans take the top position as the greatest because of their sheer versatility, whereas the Egyptians just excelled at tombs, the Romans had the Coliseum, Aqueducts (Some used into the 19th and 20th centuries), the Pantheon, Defensive works (Walls of Constantinople (Defended the City for 1000 years)). Furthermore, If you add the later Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) with the Hagia Sophia and other great works, you have an unmatched architectural legacy.
Moose-Knuckle
02-17-15, 00:11
The Coliseum is probably the most complex structure made before modern tools and equipment, but Puma Punku and the Sacsayhuaman ruins in Cusco, Peru should get honorable mention. The main stone in this picture is estimated between 150-200 tons, and this is at over 11,000 feet elevation!
https://i0.wp.com/davidgalsworthy.jalbum.net/One%20Year%20In%20Peru/slides/Sacsayhuaman%201.jpg
Gobekli Tepe in Turkey is also pretty fascinating, seeing as it's estimated to be about 7,000 years older than the Egyptian ruins. They say it may take another 50 years to uncover it completely, as they didn't begin excavation until 1995.
http://blueprintmasonry.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Gobekli-Tepe.jpg
You saved me a lot of typing.
And let's not forget The Temple of Jupiter at Ba'albek which is home to the largest cut stones yet discoverd on this planet. No one can come up with how these were even moved. By modern methods it would take something like 21 heavy lift cranes just to budge one. That is of course if you could even get that many cranes positioned around the stone in the first place. Mind boggling . . .
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/lebanonbaalbek.htm
You saved me a lot of typing.
And let's not forget The Temple of Jupiter at Ba'albek which is home to the largest cut stones yet discoverd on this planet. No one can come up with how these were even moved. By modern methods it would take something like 21 heavy lift cranes just to budge one. That is of course if you could even get that many cranes positioned around the stone in the first place. Mind boggling . . .
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/lebanonbaalbek.htm
If I ever become extremely wealthy there are lots of places I'd love to see in person. That is absolutely fascinating and I've never heard of it before.
Moose-Knuckle
02-17-15, 03:14
If I ever become extremely wealthy there are lots of places I'd love to see in person. That is absolutely fascinating and I've never heard of it before.
Yeah this subject always gets my juices flowing. Has ever since I was a kid and my father told me tales about Lemuria and Atlantis.
Ba'albek, Göbekli Tepe, Pumapunku, etc. are on my bucket list.
You saved me a lot of typing.
And let's not forget The Temple of Jupiter at Ba'albek which is home to the largest cut stones yet discoverd on this planet. No one can come up with how these were even moved. By modern methods it would take something like 21 heavy lift cranes just to budge one. That is of course if you could even get that many cranes positioned around the stone in the first place. Mind boggling . . .
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/lebanonbaalbek.htm
http://memecrunch.com/meme/2ROIV/aliens-guy/image.png
;)...
You saved me a lot of typing.
And let's not forget The Temple of Jupiter at Ba'albek which is home to the largest cut stones yet discoverd on this planet. No one can come up with how these were even moved. By modern methods it would take something like 21 heavy lift cranes just to budge one. That is of course if you could even get that many cranes positioned around the stone in the first place. Mind boggling . . .
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/lebanonbaalbek.htm
Another good one! There are so many places that don't make the "all time greats" list most commonly heard about. These fascinate me even more, because even less is known about their origins in most cases. The mystery is part of the allure to me.
Moose-Knuckle
02-18-15, 06:03
Another good one! There are so many places that don't make the "all time greats" list most commonly heard about. These fascinate me even more, because even less is known about their origins in most cases. The mystery is part of the allure to me.
List of the top 50 Megaliths:
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/top50stones.htm
List of the top 50 Megaliths:
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/top50stones.htm
Awesome, thanks for the link!
I can't believe that no one has mentioned The Great Wall of China... 13,170 miles long... The only man-made structure (or at least used to be) visible from space...
I don't see how a pile of stones or a stadium could compare. We could arguably build both the Coliseum and the Great Pyramids today, though both would be a massive undertaking. There's no way in HELL that we could or would build a 13,000+ mile long stone wall today. The best we can do is a chainlink fence with massive gaps in it bordering TX and Mexico.
brickboy240
02-18-15, 15:46
We COULD build a "great wall" type structure between Texas and Mexico. There is no political will to do so.
skijunkie55
02-18-15, 16:11
Stonehenge...
/thread. :p
Doc Safari
02-18-15, 16:19
The Pyramids. No one to this day knows for certain how the stones were lifted into place. You can't say that about anything Roman.
I personally think it was a lost technology, like softening the stones somehow and pouring them in place. Aren't they so closely fitted that you cannot get a knife blade between them?
Clearly a bunch of slaves with chisels aren't going to achieve that.
The Pyramids. No one to this day knows for certain how the stones were lifted into place. You can't say that about anything Roman.
I personally think it was a lost technology, like softening the stones somehow and pouring them in place. Aren't they so closely fitted that you cannot get a knife blade between them?
Clearly a bunch of slaves with chisels aren't going to achieve that.
Well that's not exactly the case. In some instances they are that closely fit, but not every stone. As for pouring them in place, they know where the stones were quarried from so that won't work. Even more impressive the limestone shell stones were quarried on the other side of the nile.
We also know it wasn't simply slave labor, skilled workers were involved in planning and implementation. There have been numerous suggestions as to how the stones were placed, including sand ramps that were built up with the pyramid as it rose similar to scaffolding. But obviously nobody can know for sure because we were not there.
Regardless, it's an impressive bit of work.
I can't believe that no one has mentioned The Great Wall of China... 13,170 miles long... The only man-made structure (or at least used to be) visible from space...
I don't see how a pile of stones or a stadium could compare. We could arguably build both the Coliseum and the Great Pyramids today, though both would be a massive undertaking. There's no way in HELL that we could or would build a 13,000+ mile long stone wall today. The best we can do is a chainlink fence with massive gaps in it bordering TX and Mexico.
Not really...
http://www.snopes.com/science/greatwall.asp
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/space/workinginspace/great_wall.html
The other thing about the "wall" is in some places it's a great impressive wall and in other areas it's little more than fortified dirt mounds. It was also not a singular project but an ongoing fortification of barriers that were eventually more or less joined. It is also a failure in that it kept none of the northern invaders out of China, most notably those from Manchuria who established the Ching dynasty.
During the cultural revolution the "wall" was seen as a painful reminder of a shameful past where rulers exploited the workers (with many of them losing their lives in the effort) and the resulting accomplishment failed to live up to it's purpose. Large sections of the "wall" were destroyed when bricks were taken from it to build housing for the masses.
Only when the Chinese learned the wall was seen as a "great accomplishment" by the Western world did the destruction stop and later restoration efforts undertaken when the Chinese understood it was an exploitable resource in the form of tourist revenue.
Doc Safari
02-18-15, 16:44
Well that's not exactly the case. In some instances they are that closely fit, but not every stone. As for pouring them in place, they know where the stones were quarried from so that won't work. Even more impressive the limestone shell stones were quarried on the other side of the nile.
We also know it wasn't simply slave labor, skilled workers were involved in planning and implementation. There have been numerous suggestions as to how the stones were placed, including sand ramps that were built up with the pyramid as it rose similar to scaffolding. But obviously nobody can know for sure because we were not there.
Regardless, it's an impressive bit of work.
When I say "poured in place" I just mean that somehow they had the means to soften a quarried stone so it could be set in place and "cure" back to its hardness with a more precise fit than you'd get with hammers and chisels. Ditto some of the lost cities in South America that were put together without mortar between the stones. I just doubt that the precisely cut stones didn't employ some kind of technology that we no longer possess. I'm not going to go so far as to say it was aliens, or giants, or the Nephilim, or whatever--just that they had some "technique" that was lost eons ago.
A third one to put in the running is women's exercise/yoga pants and the masterpieces of art that fill many of them.
Definitely defies all laws of physics and is expanding like our universe. A #1 candidate to be included on "Modern Marvels"! :laugh:
My candidate isn't based on complexity of construction but rather duration and enormity of the project. It takes the "I need a fence to define my backyard" concept to whole different plane!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_China
"Roll Tide!"
I digress. Between the two choices presented by SteyrAUG, I have to go with the Coliseum. It was designed and built to plan. The Pyramids are the very first example of not following the TDP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMoQBNIuT3M
When I say "poured in place" I just mean that somehow they had the means to soften a quarried stone so it could be set in place and "cure" back to its hardness with a more precise fit than you'd get with hammers and chisels. Ditto some of the lost cities in South America that were put together without mortar between the stones. I just doubt that the precisely cut stones didn't employ some kind of technology that we no longer possess. I'm not going to go so far as to say it was aliens, or giants, or the Nephilim, or whatever--just that they had some "technique" that was lost eons ago.
Gotcha. I'm personally inclined to believe they did it the hard way. Probably started with the corners and worked their way in custom fitting stones as needed. The stones are not exactly the same size (despite popular myth) and they actually are different from level to level using larger stones at the base which is of course perfectly logical.
http://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/khufu-numbers.html
Crow Hunter
02-19-15, 14:09
Nevermind.
Everyone else beat me to it.
My vote is the Romans.
I actually think their aqueduct system is their greatest achievement.
I actually think their aqueduct system is their greatest achievement.
Perhaps, but they'll never make a movie about it.
Moose-Knuckle
02-19-15, 23:15
Nevermind.
Everyone else beat me to it.
My vote is the Romans.
I actually think their aqueduct system is their greatest achievement.
+ 1K, it's kinda of hard to have the largest empire on the planet and not have any water lol. This is always over looked and as Steyr eluded too aqueducts are not very sexy. But we cannot forget the importance of water for crops to feed such a population as Rome had and then there is the whole drinking water thing.
Crow Hunter
02-20-15, 13:06
It is amazing to me that they were both able to calculate the necessary declination to get water to flow over such large distances and to actually hold that and build it such that it would last and continue to function, in many cases, 1,000 years. Not just once but all over the Roman world.
I always thought this was a pretty amazing engineering usage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hushing
I remember reading where they used this technique to basically remove an entire mountain by honeycombing it with tunnels and building an aqueduct to bring in a large amount of water and releasing it into the honeycomb to wash the mountain away and collect the gold.
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