View Full Version : What ISIS Really Wants
In this months Atlantic. I thought there was some good intel in this article about the true nature and intent of ISIS.
What is the Islamic State?
Where did it come from, and what are its intentions? The simplicity of these questions can be deceiving, and few Western leaders seem to know the answers. In December, The New York Times published confidential comments by Major General Michael K. Nagata, the Special Operations commander for the United States in the Middle East, admitting that he had hardly begun figuring out the Islamic State’s appeal. “We have not defeated the idea,” he said. “We do not even understand the idea.” In the past year, President Obama has referred to the Islamic State, variously, as “not Islamic” and as al-Qaeda’s “jayvee team,” statements that reflected confusion about the group, and may have contributed to significant strategic errors.
The group seized Mosul, Iraq, last June, and already rules an area larger than the United Kingdom. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has been its leader since May 2010, but until last summer, his most recent known appearance on film was a grainy mug shot from a stay in U.S. captivity at Camp Bucca during the occupation of Iraq. Then, on July 5 of last year, he stepped into the pulpit of the Great Mosque of al-Nuri in Mosul, to deliver a Ramadan sermon as the first caliph in generations—upgrading his resolution from grainy to high-definition, and his position from hunted guerrilla to commander of all Muslims. The inflow of jihadists that followed, from around the world, was unprecedented in its pace and volume, and is continuing.
Our ignorance of the Islamic State is in some ways understandable: It is a hermit kingdom; few have gone there and returned. Baghdadi has spoken on camera only once. But his address, and the Islamic State’s countless other propaganda videos and encyclicals, are online, and the caliphate’s supporters have toiled mightily to make their project knowable. We can gather that their state rejects peace as a matter of principle; that it hungers for genocide; that its religious views make it constitutionally incapable of certain types of change, even if that change might ensure its survival; and that it considers itself a harbinger of—and headline player in—the imminent end of the world.
The Islamic State, also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS), follows a distinctive variety of Islam whose beliefs about the path to the Day of Judgment matter to its strategy, and can help the West know its enemy and predict its behavior. Its rise to power is less like the triumph of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (a group whose leaders the Islamic State considers apostates) than like the realization of a dystopian alternate reality in which David Koresh or Jim Jones survived to wield absolute power over not just a few hundred people, but some 8 million.
We have misunderstood the nature of the Islamic State in at least two ways. First, we tend to see jihadism as monolithic, and to apply the logic of al‑Qaeda to an organization that has decisively eclipsed it. The Islamic State supporters I spoke with still refer to Osama bin Laden as “Sheikh Osama,” a title of honor. But jihadism has evolved since al-Qaeda’s heyday, from about 1998 to 2003, and many jihadists disdain the group’s priorities and current leadership.
Bin Laden viewed his terrorism as a prologue to a caliphate he did not expect to see in his lifetime. His organization was flexible, operating as a geographically diffuse network of autonomous cells. The Islamic State, by contrast, requires territory to remain legitimate, and a top-down structure to rule it. (Its bureaucracy is divided into civil and military arms, and its territory into provinces.)
We are misled in a second way, by a well-intentioned but dishonest campaign to deny the Islamic State’s medieval religious nature. Peter Bergen, who produced the first interview with bin Laden in 1997, titled his first book Holy War, Inc. in part to acknowledge bin Laden as a creature of the modern secular world. Bin Laden corporatized terror and franchised it out. He requested specific political concessions, such as the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Saudi Arabia. His foot soldiers navigated the modern world confidently. On Mohamd Atta’s last full day of life, he shopped at Walmart and ate dinner at Pizza Hut.
Cont:
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
Excellent article Will. Thank you for sharing man.
-Jax
"We are misled in a second way, by a well-intentioned but dishonest campaign to deny the Islamic State’s medieval religious nature."
Good article except for that too generous statement. The Current Occupant's actions make "well-intentioned" a highly questionable assumption. Knocking America off of it's high horse has long been the goal of the uber Left and better fits the CO's behavior than naiveté.
MountainRaven
02-16-15, 13:42
I sure wish Daeesh would drop the AKs and RPGs and use swords and spears appropriate to such a medieval state.
Excellent article Will. Thank you for sharing man.
-Jax
I'm far from an expert on the topic, but this seemed a highly accurate and objective look minus PC BS and claiming they are not Muslims, etc. In my view, ISIS may be the final straw that either brings the majority of Muslims and Muslim countries to realize there's something even worse than each other, and face this threat together. Or, it will devolve into major regional conflict, or worse. In our favor ("Our" being the US and major western nations), ISIS is a larger threat to most Muslims than they are to us, and they'll have no choice but to confront and, or support those who do.
Two, this article shows very clearly there is no potential at all negotiation, nor appeasement to their demands , no "we can all live in harmony and respect each others Right to exist as we see fit" modern world approach. None, zip, nadda. This is old school religion at work with zero, nadda, zip, room for anything or anyone who does not follow religion exactly as they see it.
This is an "us" vs "them" conflict that will only get worse until an old school approach is taken. The good news is that "us" includes a few hundred million Muslims who are also the targets of ISIS, and are motivated to fight it, and likely stand with modern countries.
ISIS is funded mostly by selling a million dollars + per day of oil from taken oil fields. Who can afford, transport, and store that much oil? It's seems impossible US intelligence et al don't know exactly who the entities are purchasing that oil, and either a JDAM (or 10) should arrive at their homes after a single warning to stop, or a team of men who don't smile often to double tap them and leave a "get well soon card"
Failure2Stop
02-16-15, 13:46
I was sure that this was going to be a picture of a rear view of a goat.
brickboy240
02-16-15, 14:06
Our prez probably thinks the Tea Party is more of a threat than ISIS, ISIL or I-whatever! LOL
Averageman
02-16-15, 14:48
I'm far from an expert on the topic, but this seemed a highly accurate and objective look minus PC BS and claiming they are not Muslims, etc. In my view, ISIS may be the final straw that either brings the majority of Muslims and Muslim countries to realize there's something even worse than each other, and face this threat together. Or, it will devolve into major regional conflict, or worse. In our favor ("Our" being the US and major western nations), ISIS is a larger threat to most Muslims than they are to us, and they'll have no choice but to confront and, or support those who do.
Two, this article shows very clearly there is no potential at all negotiation, nor appeasement to their demands , no "we can all live in harmony and respect each others Right to exist as we see fit" modern world approach. None, zip, nadda. This is old school religion at work with zero, nadda, zip, room for anything or anyone who does not follow religion exactly as they see it.
This is an "us" vs "them" conflict that will only get worse until an old school approach is taken. The good news is that "us" includes a few hundred million Muslims who are also the targets of ISIS, and are motivated to fight it, and likely stand with modern countries.
ISIS is funded mostly by selling a million dollars + per day of oil from taken oil fields. Who can afford, transport, and store that much oil? It's seems impossible US intelligence et al don't know exactly who the entities are purchasing that oil, and either a JDAM (or 10) should arrive at their homes after a single warning to stop, or a team of men who don't smile often to double tap them and leave a "get well soon card"
Thank You for posting the article and this brief summary.
I really wish more people would take a closer look at this, nobody wants to be drug in to this fight, but I'm not sure how we are not being directed head on in to it.
Thank You for posting the article and this brief summary.
I really wish more people would take a closer look at this, nobody wants to be drug in to this fight, but I'm not sure how we are not being directed head on in to it.
I think every politician and high ranking military officer should be forced - Clockwork Orange style - to read that article.
One of the largest reasons other "Muslim" nations haven't gone beast mode on ISIS is because they know what the Quran teaches, they know ISIS follows it to the letter, and they know they do not. This is exactly why ISIS calls them apostates. Muslims around the world condemned the burning of the Jordanian pilot and stated it was contrary to the teachings of Islam. ISIS proved them all wrong when they posted a script from the Quran which depicts Mohammad burning his enemies. Mohammad burned Meccans alive and had a fire built on a man's chest to torture him. Baghdadi is their leader, but these people follow Mohammad.
If we want to understand ISIS we can read the Quran with understanding that they follow it exactly. So let's change 8 million to 1.8 Billion, and Jim Jones and David Koresh to Mohammad. Then we are more accurate. We do ourselves no favors to pretend Islam can be brought into modernity. Their sacred texts allow no such thing.
The Islamic State, also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS), follows a distinctive variety of Islam whose beliefs about the path to the Day of Judgment matter to its strategy, and can help the West know its enemy and predict its behavior. Its rise to power is less like the triumph of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (a group whose leaders the Islamic State considers apostates) than like the realization of a dystopian alternate reality in which David Koresh or Jim Jones survived to wield absolute power over not just a few hundred people, but some 8 million.
MountainRaven
02-16-15, 15:36
One of the largest reasons other "Muslim" nations haven't gone beast mode on ISIS is because they know what the Quran teaches, they know ISIS follows it to the letter, and they know they do not. This is exactly why ISIS calls them apostates. Muslims around the world condemned the burning of the Jordanian pilot and stated it was contrary to the teachings of Islam. ISIS proved them all wrong when they posted a script from the Quran which depicts Mohammad burning his enemies. Mohammad burned Meccans alive and had a fire built on a man's chest to torture him. Baghdadi is their leader, but these people follow Mohammad.
If we want to understand ISIS we can read the Quran with understanding that they follow it exactly. So let's change 8 million to 1.8 Billion, and Jim Jones and David Koresh to Mohammad. Then we are more accurate. We do ourselves no favors to pretend Islam can be brought into modernity. Their sacred texts allow no such thing.
And Christianity and Judaism can be brought into modernity? Because Jews and Christians can keep slaves and stone adulterers and murder apostates, infidels, heretics, and pagans and claim to be carrying out what God has commanded through the Bible and the Tanakh.
The people who live in the modern era, not in some anachronistic Dark Age genocide state - regardless of which Abrahamic faith they adhere to - do so in the same manner: By discarding those bits and pieces of divine writ that they find distasteful.
The people who live in the modern era, not in some anachronistic Dark Age genocide state - regardless of which Abrahamic faith they adhere to - do so in the same manner: By discarding those bits and pieces of divine writ that they find distasteful.
I haven't found arguments about religion to be profitable, online or off. Christianity has no need to be brought into modernity as Christianity has brought modernity, in large part, to the world. To deny this is to deny history. Say what you will, but I will not engage further. I believe this thread was meant to address Islam.
Averageman
02-16-15, 16:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxdWTA02a9E#t=18
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/02/five-french-teens-held-for-defacing-300-graves-at-jewish-cemetery/
“We don’t know the motives of these adolescents who don’t have past criminal records and we don’t know of any ideological convictions that could explain their behavior. “They are very very shocked by the turn of events.”
Being willing to ignore what is going on, only allows it to continue, further efforts to place your head firnly and deep in the sand only allows it to continue.
This is France, not Iraq or Iran; you really might want to take a look at how close this has come to dominating the places we fought to free in WWII.
Outlander Systems
02-16-15, 16:48
I haven't found arguments about religion to be profitable, online or off. Christianity has no need to be brought into modernity as Christianity has brought modernity, in large part, to the world. To deny this is to deny history. Say what you will, but I will not engage further. I believe this thread was meant to address Islam.
Agreed.
All I have on that:
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
I can't find Jesus saying anything about Crusades, Inquisitions, Burning Witches, etc. Maybe some people are reading a different version of the NT than I am.
Jesus can be summed up as having said:
Suck it up Nancy. Love God. And be excellent to one another.
MountainRaven
02-16-15, 18:01
I'll just drop a couple quotes from scripture here:
"For truly I say unto you, Till heaven and earth perish, one jot or one tittle of the Law shall not escape, till all things be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18)
"If thou shalt hear say (concerning any of thy cities, which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell in) Wicked men are gone out from among you, and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known, Then thou shalt seek, and make search and inquire diligently: and if it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you, Thou shalt even slay the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword: destroy it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof with the edge of the sword, And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and burn with fire the city and all the spoil thereof every whit, unto the Lord thy God: and it shall be an heap forever, it shall not be built again." (Deuteronomy 13:12-16)
"When thou comest near unto a city to fight against it, thou shalt offer it peace. And if it answer thee again peaceably, and open unto thee, then let all the people that is found therein, be tributaries unto thee, and serve thee. But if it will make no peace with thee, but make war against thee, then shalt thou besiege it. And the Lord thy God shall deliver it into thine hands, and thou shalt smite all the males thereof with the edge of the sword. Only the women, and the children, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof shalt thou take unto thyself, and shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities, which are a great way off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations here." (Deuteronomy 20:10-15)
Draw your own conclusions. :)
Outlander Systems
02-16-15, 18:14
I'll just drop a couple quotes from scripture here:
"For truly I say unto you, Till heaven and earth perish, one jot or one tittle of the Law shall not escape, till all things be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18)
"If thou shalt hear say (concerning any of thy cities, which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell in) Wicked men are gone out from among you, and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known, Then thou shalt seek, and make search and inquire diligently: and if it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you, Thou shalt even slay the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword: destroy it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof with the edge of the sword, And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and burn with fire the city and all the spoil thereof every whit, unto the Lord thy God: and it shall be an heap forever, it shall not be built again." (Deuteronomy 13:12-16)
"When thou comest near unto a city to fight against it, thou shalt offer it peace. And if it answer thee again peaceably, and open unto thee, then let all the people that is found therein, be tributaries unto thee, and serve thee. But if it will make no peace with thee, but make war against thee, then shalt thou besiege it. And the Lord thy God shall deliver it into thine hands, and thou shalt smite all the males thereof with the edge of the sword. Only the women, and the children, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof shalt thou take unto thyself, and shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities, which are a great way off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations here." (Deuteronomy 20:10-15)
Draw your own conclusions. :)
We get it. You don't like Christianity.
ETA: Literalist interpretations of the Sermon on the Mount, especially in that context, show a complete lack of understanding.
Christ didn't destroy the law. He streamlined it.
Love God. Love thy neighbor. Do that; you "got dis." If you loved thy neighbor, you wouldn't try to put a bone to his wife. If you loved your neighbor, you wouldn't try and Jack his stuff. It's pretty caveman, dude.
As a Christian...well, the words in red carry me on, not the OT. I'm not an Israelite, living in the B.C. Era.
Notice, also, you can criticize, and hate, Christianity, blaspheme the Lord, and throw snide digs at Christians, without the concern of getting your head chopped off.
Should tell ya something, broski.
I
We get it. You don't like Christianity.
He said no such thing. Pointing out one can find sections in the primary text of the major religions that, if interpreted followed literally would not be in line with modern civilization does not = dislike. Although I'm no Islamic scholar, it seems Islam, when taken to it's oldest most literal interpretations, is not able to coexist with any western ideals of Democracy, Liberty, or Freedom, not matter your religion or lack there of.
The thread is going to go down the rabbit hole that is religious debate and get locked. Hopefully we can avoid that.
Business_Casual
02-16-15, 18:34
Where did they get all that gear from, anyway?
https://syrianfreepress.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/john-mccain-and-the-leader-of-isis.jpg
[cough]permanent war[/uncough]
I'll just point this out as well. Some of the thoughts expressed here is exactly why our benevolent leaders fail miserably, and lead our nation to a position of weakness. When facing a determined and ruthless enemy, they criticize and point fingers in all the wrong directions. If anyone wanted to know why ISIS is misunderstood, underestimated, and gaining momentum, they read how Jews and Christians condone killing...like the crusades. Does BHO post here?
For those looking to educate themselves on the drastic differences in the OT vs the Quran, have a read here:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Bible-Quran-Violence.htm
As a general rule, I'm a history buff--needless to say heavy on Western Civ., but on the Islamist issue, my give-a-damn as to what motivates them is busted. I like dogs, but if one goes all rabid, it's just a question of how best to make it DRT as fast as possible.
Actions have consequences. Unfortunately, justice is in short supply in this world.
I was sure that this was going to be a picture of a rear view of a goat.
Great article.
F2S made me spit my coffee and laugh. Lmao.
Just an FYI:http://leoarmory.com/ss/index.php?l=product_detail&p=304
You can get a “Deus Vult” engraved dust cover for your AR.
JOBS - that's the solution, find jobs for the isis savages and they will be happy and won't cut people's head off - well, that's what I think this state department's voice said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/17/state-department-spokeswoman-floats-jobs-as-answer-to-isis/
I for one don't care what they want. They are roaches who need to be exterminated as soon as possible.
JOBS - that's the solution, find jobs for the isis savages and they will be happy and won't cut people's head off - well, that's what I think this state department's voice said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/17/state-department-spokeswoman-floats-jobs-as-answer-to-isis/
So WE, are supposed to find THEM jobs so they'll stop killing people? :rolleyes:
I have the perfect jobs for them. THEY can dig graves for all of THEM who commit savagery, and use that dirt to fill in bomb craters! :mad:
JOBS - that's the solution, find jobs for the isis savages and they will be happy and won't cut people's head off - well, that's what I think this state department's voice said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/17/state-department-spokeswoman-floats-jobs-as-answer-to-isis/
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by curing poverty in the other dumb bastard's country. -Gen. Marie Harf" -@sonnybunch
I for one don't care what they want. They are roaches who need to be exterminated as soon as possible.
Knowing what they want is knowing what they intend, and know what your enemy intends is the fastest way to defeat them. Your attitude, as policy, is a large part of why they exist...Two, we simply are not in the business of mass exterminations, 'cause were are supposed be the good guys, so an actual plan is in order.
We know exactly what they plan to do, and even where they plan to have the big showdown with the "Roman" armies. You can't ask for much better who/what/where of their intentions, even better than breaking Japanese and German codes in WWII.
I for one don't care what they want. They are roaches who need to be exterminated as soon as possible.
Knowing what they want is knowing what they intend, and know what your enemy intends is the fastest way to defeat them. Your attitude, as policy, is a large part of why they exist...Two, we simply are not in the business of mass exterminations, 'cause were are supposed be the good guys, so an actual plan is in order.
We know exactly what they plan to do, and even where they plan to have the big showdown with the "Roman" armies. You can't ask for much better who/what/where of their intentions, even better than breaking Japanese and German codes in WWII.
Thanks for the lecture, Will, and I get all of that, but you didn't change my mind one iota.
If we had set about eliminating them as early as possible, with real intention and with all of the might we could muster, they wouldn't be the problem they are now.
They proliferate because of your attitude, which is that we have to be the good guys. Horsefeathers. We don't have to be the good guys when it comes to dealing with pricks like these. The definition of real goodness would be bringing about their destruction as vigorously as possible.
I sincerely hope the "neutron" bomb has been perfected and not pitched on the trash pile.
We need to use it!
And keep using it until the threat is stopped.
Knowing what they want is knowing what they intend, and know what your enemy intends is the fastest way to defeat them. Your attitude, as policy, is a large part of why they exist...Two, we simply are not in the business of mass exterminations, 'cause were are supposed be the good guys, so an actual plan is in order.
We know exactly what they plan to do, and even where they plan to have the big showdown with the "Roman" armies. You can't ask for much better who/what/where of their intentions, even better than breaking Japanese and German codes in WWII.
All the more reason our inability to deal with them effectively is a complete embarassment. Head in the sand politics, apparently isn't working. :rolleyes:
All the more reason our inability to deal with them effectively is a complete embarassment. Head in the sand politics, apparently isn't working. :rolleyes:
I'm not precisely clear on what effectively dealing with them would be, but I think that article gives some excellent intel into it. Me, I still consider this much more a Muslim problem than a US/western problem. Unlike al-Qaeda, various Muslim countries will not be able to ignore them and or simply use them as a proxy to hassle those they don't like, etc. ISIS primary focus and target is not the US/West, but other Muslims. Best thing that could happen, Muslim nations create a coalition force to take them out, with our support via intel and perhaps air support perhaps. That's essential for both ISIS followers to see and the Muslim world to see. As they are unlikely to do that and will not realize the level of threat they face, plan B likely to simply isolate them, drain them, end their legitimacy as a caliphate, which will take time and cost many lives in the region.
platoonDaddy
02-17-15, 14:37
yea, have them flipping camel burgers and everyone will be happy. Friggin state department is dumb as camel poop!
BoringGuy45
02-17-15, 14:40
The thing is, we know what they want. They've said it over, and over, and over, and over again: They intend to take over the world. That's just the truth. They want to establish a caliphate that stretches to every corner of the world. They want to exterminate all infidels and any Muslims who don't subscribe to their brand of extremist Islam. The horrific acts they've carried out are only a small preview of what they plan to do once they've gained more power.
That is it. There's a lot of belief systems that aim to conquer the world, but right now, ISIS is the only organization that is actively trying to do so.
I'm not precisely clear on what effectively dealing with them would be, but I think that article gives some excellent intel into it. Me, I still consider this much more a Muslim problem than a US/western problem. Unlike al-Qaeda, various Muslim countries will not be able to ignore them and or simply use them as a proxy to hassle those they don't like, etc. ISIS primary focus and target is not the US/West, but other Muslims. Best thing that could happen, Muslim nations create a coalition force to take them out, with our support via intel and perhaps air support perhaps. That's essential for both ISIS followers to see and the Muslim world to see. As they are unlikely to do that and will not realize the level of threat they face, plan B likely to simply isolate them, drain them, end their legitimacy as a caliphate, which will take time and cost many lives in the region.
One thing that COULD help, would be to hold the Muslim faith at large partly responsible for the misdeeds of their few. We do that with abortion clinic bombers and so-called "Christian" based white supremacists, so why can't they do the same with their undesirables (if they are in fact undesirable)? Yet here we have Zero setting an administration policy that they refuse to even use the names of religions in the discussions. WTF? If you can't even say the problem out loud, how can you possibly believe you can deal with the problem?
If it were up to me, we'd have very clear and precise lines laid out for when and where we intervene. Once those lines are crossed, our responses should be swift and without mercy. Where we always get stuck is foreign entanglements with factions we'd never associate with if the other guy wasn't an order of magnitude worse. Then the other guy beats us about the head and shoulders at the very point we're weakest. It's a stupid cycle that we seem to thrive on. No wonder the conspiracy theorists think it's done on purpose, because how could we be so stupid otherwise? :mad:
ditto and they have been wanting this since the beginning
The thing is, we know what they want. They've said it over, and over, and over, and over again: They intend to take over the world. That's just the truth. They want to establish a caliphate that stretches to every corner of the world. They want to exterminate all infidels and any Muslims who don't subscribe to their brand of extremist Islam. The horrific acts they've carried out are only a small preview of what they plan to do once they've gained more power.
That is it. There's a lot of belief systems that aim to conquer the world, but right now, ISIS is the only organization that is actively trying to do so.
but the problem is when you talk to most muslims in the world which there have been polls etc...
most muslims do agree islam will rule the world one day and if you are not converted you will be a slave or killed !
sure the tiny % that live here in the US might not all agree but sadly the poll I read showed about %40 are OK with things that are going on and while they would not do it they are fine
so what is the US population of total a tiny sliver of muslims and IMHO those are not the same as the world view which the majority again do believe islam will rule the world
how about head over to middle east and ask and you see whole countries are OK with whats going on some dont like the methods but the end goal is OK
heck look how many white folks and other non muslim liberals think we brought this on ourselves shows you they will never own it and why would they when they want world domination
One thing that COULD help, would be to hold the Muslim faith at large partly responsible for the misdeeds of their few. We do that with abortion clinic bombers and so-called "Christian" based white supremacists, so why can't they do the same with their undesirables (if they are in fact undesirable)? Yet here we have Zero setting an administration policy that they refuse to even use the names of religions in the discussions. WTF? If you can't even say the problem out loud, how can you possibly believe you can deal with the problem?
If it were up to me, we'd have very clear and precise lines laid out for when and where we intervene. Once those lines are crossed, our responses should be swift and without mercy. Where we always get stuck is foreign entanglements with factions we'd never associate with if the other guy wasn't an order of magnitude worse. Then the other guy beats us about the head and shoulders at the very point we're weakest. It's a stupid cycle that we seem to thrive on. No wonder the conspiracy theorists think it's done on purpose, because how could we be so stupid otherwise? :mad:
it wasnt pertinent to a useful thread /del
Outlander Systems
02-17-15, 16:34
These people LITERALLY want to bring about the Islamic Apocalypse.
There's no reasoning with that. Use the Koran as a guideline for a psyop of epic proportions.
Chuck a monkey wrench into their eschatological aspirations.
The thing is, we know what they want. They've said it over, and over, and over, and over again: They intend to take over the world. That's just the truth. They want to establish a caliphate that stretches to every corner of the world. They want to exterminate all infidels and any Muslims who don't subscribe to their brand of extremist Islam. The horrific acts they've carried out are only a small preview of what they plan to do once they've gained more power.
That is it. There's a lot of belief systems that aim to conquer the world, but right now, ISIS is the only organization that is actively trying to do so.
They're the only organization try to do it by FORCE. At the rate the rest are immigrating to Europe and procreating, they will be a majority in Europe by the end of the century. They already have their little neighborhoods that follow and enforce Sharia law.
BoringGuy45
02-17-15, 23:39
They're the only organization try to do it by FORCE. At the rate the rest are immigrating to Europe and procreating, they will be a majority in Europe by the end of the century. They already have their little neighborhoods that follow and enforce Sharia law.
That's probably the biggest threat, bigger than ISIS. They are slowly subverting an increasing apathetic, directionless, and feminized European culture. ISIS is currently waging a conventional war. Not even a guerrilla war; a standard, large unit conventional infantry and armor war. While they have been able to nearly overthrow two countries that were already unstable with weak, ill equipped militaries, their use of conventional tactics will spell their doom if faced with a well trained, well equipped army. The IDF, the Jordanians, and the Saudis alone would slaughter them in conventional warfare, and obviously the West is capable of turning them all into glass (though our leader is too cowardly to do anything like that). But for the time being, no one is willing to get fully involved in the fight. I'm just hoping for them to take that one bite that's a little too big and for someone, us or one of our allies, to take off the gloves with them.
They're the only organization try to do it by FORCE. At the rate the rest are immigrating to Europe and procreating, they will be a majority in Europe by the end of the century. They already have their little neighborhoods that follow and enforce Sharia law.
These assumptions of Muslim population growth are not accurate as they assume comparable growth in resources. They will reach the carrying capacity of their environment rather quickly. The rate of immigration will slow down as resources become more scarce.
polydeuces
02-18-15, 18:20
They're a bunch of pyjama wearin' mall-ninja wanna-be weenie-buffing piss-ants that seem to think their pathetic cowardly acts of disgrace project some form of power.
Far from it.
If they wouldn't be so utterly devoid of humanity they'd be pathetically laughable, like a bad SNL skit.
The worst thing we can do is give them the courtesy of respect - the kind of respect one gives a worthy adversary.
So far their 'victories' have been nothing but acts of terror against marginally organized, badly armed or unarmed men women and children.
Realistically I give them about 3 more months. 4 tops. They will commit the cardinal error of shitting where they eat - do something epically stupid in the Netherlands or Germany.
Then their neighbors and those fed up with their pedantic miscreant behavior, those left with some shred of common sense and self-respect will unleash holy hell and wipe them off the face of this planet.
Best to keep our powder dry and ignore them until then.
That's just my $.02
So apparently nobody taught these fools a fundamental rule of fighting: Don't telegraph your moves
It appears there is going to be an operation to retake Mosul from the Islamic Terrorists...err...I mean...disenfranchised misunderstood extremists kicking off possibly as early as March:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31543415
Unbelievable....
So apparently nobody taught these fools a fundamental rule of fighting: Don't telegraph your moves
It appears there is going to be an operation to retake Mosul from the Islamic Terrorists...err...I mean...disenfranchised misunderstood extremists kicking off possibly as early as March:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31543415
Unbelievable....
OPSEC, what's that? It's the modern age where everyone shares everything. Not that knowing will help them once a more united force gets ramped up and starts the killin' in modern warfare style. Maybe it's an intentional "leak" to draw their attention from something else.
They're a bunch of pyjama wearin' mall-ninja wanna-be weenie-buffing piss-ants that seem to think their pathetic cowardly acts of disgrace project some form of power.
Far from it.
If they wouldn't be so utterly devoid of humanity they'd be pathetically laughable, like a bad SNL skit.
The worst thing we can do is give them the courtesy of respect - the kind of respect one gives a worthy adversary.
So far their 'victories' have been nothing but acts of terror against marginally organized, badly armed or unarmed men women and children.
Realistically I give them about 3 more months. 4 tops. They will commit the cardinal error of shitting where they eat - do something epically stupid in the Netherlands or Germany.
Then their neighbors and those fed up with their pedantic miscreant behavior, those left with some shred of common sense and self-respect will unleash holy hell and wipe them off the face of this planet.
Best to keep our powder dry and ignore them until then.
That's just my $.02
I will respectively disagree.ISIL, ISIS, Daesh or whatever you want to name them have earned a respect only for the threat they represent. Unfortunately ALOT of that respect has been earned by our (the Government) unwillingness to admit what these guys can do or are capable of doing. Obama has sort of justified their actions at the National Prayer Breakfast and refuses to name them what they are, Islamic hard core fundamentalist. Some one said Chamberlain was a claimed Nazi patsy and that someone was Winston Churchill. By that example I completely agree that in parallel Obama is a patsy for Muslim fundamentalism. He will NOT call a spade a spade thus giving them power and leverage. When they behead 21 Christians and you only acknowledge what happened without giving any levity to the atrocity, or serious repercussions to said tragedy, you give the enemy LOTS of power. I seriously fear for Israel, Europe and the U.S. with this mindset from 'our' President. With each barbaric act ISIS commits AND our diminutive response to each act WE give ISIS more power every time Obama speaks. We NEED another Reagan.
-Jax
Well......
http://drudgegae.iavian.net/v2/r?n=1&s=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcnsnews.com%2Fnews%2Farticle%2Fsusan-jones%2Fobama-islam-has-been-woven-fabric-our-country-its-founding
polydeuces
02-19-15, 21:33
I will respectively disagree.ISIL, ISIS, Daesh or whatever you want to name them have earned a respect only for the threat they represent. Unfortunately ALOT of that respect has been earned by our (the Government) unwillingness to admit what these guys can do or are capable of doing. Obama has sort of justified their actions at the National Prayer Breakfast and refuses to name them what they are, Islamic hard core fundamentalist. Some one said Chamberlain was a claimed Nazi patsy and that someone was Winston Churchill. By that example I completely agree that in parallel Obama is a patsy for Muslim fundamentalism. He will NOT call a spade a spade thus giving them power and leverage. When they behead 21 Christians and you only acknowledge what happened without giving any levity to the atrocity, or serious repercussions to said tragedy, you give the enemy LOTS of power. I seriously fear for Israel, Europe and the U.S. with this mindset from 'our' President. With each barbaric act ISIS commits AND our diminutive response to each act WE give ISIS more power every time Obama speaks. We NEED another Reagan.
-Jax
Pretty much agree wholeheartedly with everything you say - couldn't have stated it better.
His coming out (today?) saying "the west is not at war with islam" left me somewhat speechless - talk about an utter disconnect with reality and an administration solely concerned with semantics and appearances as opposed to dealing with brutal reality.
Apparently those ISHSHLMS fu#@ers didn't get the memo.
But I still think those calling them selves ISwhatever are at heart nothing but the equivalent of cowardly pedantic (sexually frustrated?) bullies that are in dire need of an asskicking which will make them run home crying for mommie. Sort of reminds me of Sadam promising 'the mother of blablabla'....tiresome and delusional.
Seriously - just try to imagine what it takes for a man to get to achieve that kind of station in life. What kind of mindset one must have and how to get there. 'Jihadi'...
Freud and Jung would have had a field-day with this.
There is nothing showing me they have the ability or skill set to resist a serious beat-down, once it comes their way. Motivation perhaps - which comes with religious fanaticism, any time.
In all honesty what I see as the end game is a Yugoslavia break up type scenario with a coalition going in and mopping up. IF we're lucky. Because this time a few more variables - making it a bit more messy - as if that were possible.
Together with what's stirring in Ukraine and current developments all over the 'free' (ahem..) Muslim world, things are about to get REALLY interesting.
All this while China is just quietly groovin' along.
Deja vu all over again.
OPSEC, what's that? It's the modern age where everyone shares everything. Not that knowing will help them once a more united force gets ramped up and starts the killin' in modern warfare style. Maybe it's an intentional "leak" to draw their attention from something else.
I had thought that for a minute, but if I was an ISIS leader or whatever I would let them think I'm preparing for an attack on Mosul but would just head elsewhere to pull my shenanigans. And I would destroy that dam on my way out.
Averageman
02-20-15, 12:46
This has been turned in to a political football and I don't see anything good coming of any of it.
I certainly wish we would have let this hornets nest alone and this was Saddam's baby to sort out.
I find this a bit better written, more direct and to the point.
ISIS and Terrorism (http://bradtaylorbooks.com/2015/02/not-simple-primer-terrorism/)
I call it one thing: Eradicating murderers. We can do that. We shouldn’t hamstring our actions by worrying about creating future extremists. Yes, there is the potential for backlash, but the current threat is so grave it must be dealt with. Would we worry about future Nazis based on freeing Auschwitz? Yes, I brought up the die-hard Nazi bogeyman, but I did it for a reason.
I find this a bit better written, more direct and to the point.
ISIS and Terrorism (http://bradtaylorbooks.com/2015/02/not-simple-primer-terrorism/)
A good read. Although the two authors may diverge as to how to deal with them, they are in total agreement as to their intent. I honestly think ISIS has the potential to do more good than harm by their showing various Islamic counties who can't play nice with each other, there is something far worse, and it's in their best interests to address both this group of and the root causes that created them. That's the optimistic view. I give it a 50/50 that happens, or it just turns into a regional cluster fu&% and goes down hill from there. The "good" thing about ISIS as far as I can tell is, they are too psychotic to be used a proxy by anyone.
I honestly think ISIS has the potential to do more good than harm by their showing various Islamic counties who can't play nice with each other, there is something far worse, and it's in their best interests to address both this group of and the root causes that created them. That's the optimistic view. I give it a 50/50 that happens, or it just turns into a regional cluster fu&% and goes down hill from there. The "good" thing about ISIS as far as I can tell is, they are too psychotic to be used a proxy by anyone.
I can't agree with your optimism.
This region has had issues for Centuries, I give it a 20/80 chance of lasting 5 minutes after they are destroyed.
That's a good article, but it leaves out their desire to rid the Middle East of the results of the Sykes-Picot agreement.
on a off road forum I read reading this guy writing that all the ISIS videos are fake and that ISIS is not real its just our gov has invented it and everything they have done beheadings and other things are not real just hollywood green screen stuff and done by the CIA
I sometimes wonder how someone so stupid can even make a living
on a off road forum I read reading this guy writing that all the ISIS videos are fake and that ISIS is not real its just our gov has invented it and everything they have done beheadings and other things are not real just hollywood green screen stuff and done by the CIA
I sometimes wonder how someone so stupid can even make a living
Yes, that's the latest thing among tin foil had idiots: they don't actually exist, invented by US media, CIA, etc, etc. If they are convinced of that, give them a plane ticket and lets see how that works out. I'd expect to see their head on a stick.
brickboy240
02-23-15, 11:16
Well...there are some that actually believe Oswald did accurately shoot Kennedy from a moving car with that ratty old Carcano and WWII surplus ammo.
...just saying...
Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I'd bump this thread with an excellent article also in The Atlantic. Members here tend to be better informed than most on the topic of where/how ISIS originated and possible steps to end them:
How ISIS spread in the Middle East and how to stop it.
“It is perfectly true, as the philosophers say, that life must be understood backwards. But they forget the other proposition: that it must be lived forwards.” This observation was made in 1843 by the Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard in a journal entry, but it might have been written about the contemporary Middle East.
We have been living the Islamic State forwards, surprised at every turn, but we can perhaps begin to understand it backwards. Although ISIS took most of the world by surprise when it swept into the Iraqi city of Mosul in June 2014, the group and its forebears had been proclaiming their goals for a decade. Like many consequential events, this one didn’t sneak up on policymakers; they simply didn’t see what was taking shape in front of them. ISIS told us exactly what it was going to do, and then did it. This was a secret conspiracy hiding in plain sight.
ISIS is mysterious in part because it is so many things at once. It combines Islamic piety and reverence for the prophet and his companions with the most modern social-media platforms and encryption schemes; its videos blend the raw pornographic violence of a snuff film with the pious chanting of religious warriors; the group has the discipline of a prison gang (many of its recruits were indeed drawn from U.S.-organized prisons in Iraq), but also the tactical subtlety and capacity for deception of the most skilled members of Saddam Hussein’s intelligence services, who were also pulled into the ISIS net. It appears less brittle than al-Qaeda because its members care less about religious doctrine and organizational hierarchy. As has been said of the Episcopal Church (forgive the comparison), ISIS is solid at the core but loose at the edges.
What is ravaging the Middle East right now is obviously deeper than ISIS. It has become commonplace over the last year to observe that we are witnessing the collapse of the post-Ottoman order—that the “lines in the sand” conjured in 1916 by the British and French diplomats Mark Sykes and François Georges-Picot are being blown to dust. But we haven’t reckoned with how the insurgents perceive that process. ISIS has religious, psychological, and technological faces. But in some fundamental respects it is an anti-colonial movement that takes as its reference point Islam’s pre-colonial conception of power—an Islamic state, a Sunni caliphate. Even if ISIS is crushed, this idea of “our caliphate” is likely to persist, and return.
Cont:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/how-isis-started-syria-iraq/412042/
"Why Islam is a Religion of War" http://sultanknish.blogspot.co.at/2015/11/why-islam-is-religion-of-war.html
Thanks for the link Will.
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