View Full Version : approve G19 for Spc Ops (MARSOC)
platoonDaddy
02-17-15, 16:31
Wonder why the G19 vs the G17
In a Marine Corps first, the service recently added a Glock pistol to its list of authorized individual weapons, optics and modular attachments.
However, the 9mm semi-automatic Glock 19 pistol is officially approved for use only by personnel assigned to Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command, according to a force-wide message issued in mid-February. In fact, the pistol will carry a non-Marine inventory number because it is a U.S. Special Operations Command asset, according to the message.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/02/17/glock-19-pistols-approved-for-marsoc-operators/23548847/
Great pistol. Wise addition to the list.
USMC_Anglico
02-17-15, 17:11
MARSOC has been using 19s for a while in Afghanistan much like other SOF units under SOCOM. The .45's have been less than reliable and keeping the large numbers they need up and running is tough. This MARADMIN is just making it official, along with providing a means for $ to support it with holsters, etc. outside of unit buys.
Glock 19s are used because that is what is provided to foreign forces. Then SOCOM trainers can carry them too because they are training those forces and need familiarity/commonality...kinda convenient.
platoonDaddy
02-17-15, 20:05
MARSOC has been using 19s for a while in Afghanistan much like other SOF units under SOCOM. The .45's have been less than reliable and keeping the large numbers they need up and running is tough. This MARADMIN is just making it official, along with providing a means for $ to support it with holsters, etc. outside of unit buys.
Glock 19s are used because that is what is provided to foreign forces. Then SOCOM trainers can carry them too because they are training those forces and need familiarity/commonality...kinda convenient.
As you stated, they have been 'quietly" using them for a while. The G19 is the standard pistol for many units and agencies due to it good balance of size, capacity and conceal-ability. Individuals with very large hands are sometimes allowed to use 17's but the 19 is the norm.
I think it says a lot about Glock. I have heard that the Army's Special Forces have been using the Glock 22 for a while now. I would think that other special units are carrying Glocks as well. Up until a few months ago I was not planing to getting a G19. A co-work let me shoot his G19. It felt a lot different then the full size Glocks. He even told me he liked it better then full size Glock. I have a supervise that carries a G23. He told me the something. Both have said it is a good compromise gun, meaning you can conceal it really well and it handles like a full size gun. I started looking at getting a G19. Time will tell.
Beat Trash
02-18-15, 09:10
MARSOG has bouncing the Glock 19 OCONUS for a while. Now, it's "Officially Authorized".
You also need to take into consideration the mission of MARSOG can take it's members and place them in positions where they are doing things while blending into the general population of the location that they are in. For this mission, the Glock 19 excels. It excels for the same reasons that the Glock 19 is so popular as a CCW and a plain cloths LEO pistol.
I think it says a lot about Glock. I have heard that the Army's Special Forces have been using the Glock 22 for a while now.
where did you hear this?
are there "in the wild" pictures?
Psalms144.1
02-18-15, 10:53
Wonder why the G19 vs the G17G19s are in the inventory at USSOCOM already. G17s would require a new procurement process. The extra two rounds and 1/2" of sight radius probably isn't worth going through all that hassle...
brickboy240
02-18-15, 11:26
I also heard, from a recently retired Air Force Combat Controller, that yes...they carried Glock 22s when they were on patrols with Ranger units.
Was surprised to hear they were using 40 caliber pistols but that is what the guy said they were carrying.
Haven't heard of 22s with SF but know at least some teams have been using the 19 as many have said. I too would be surprised with them using a 40.
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There are various models of Glock used throughout SOF units. 17s, 19s, and 22s I've seen personally. The 19 is by far the most popular.
Rick
LAV has mentioned a few times that Delta used Glock 22's.
Haven't heard of 22s with SF but know at least some teams have been using the 19 as many have said. I too would be surprised with them using a 40.
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LAV has mentioned a few times that Delta used Glock 22's.
And Pat Macnamara has stated that he thinks they were duped into getting the 40 calibers and would have been better off with 9mm variants.
Rick
And Pat Macnamara has stated that he thinks they were duped into getting the 40 calibers and would have been better off with 9mm variants.
Rick
It's my understanding they've already traded the 40 cal Glocks for 9's in the 3 major sizes (17, 19, 34).
Do they have to use ball ammo?
If so, I wonder about the 9 mm cartridge particulars, i.e., grain size, etc.
"I know/saw/found this DOD reference, pic, etc..." > "I thought/heard/was told..."
Just sayin.
Not that it matters much, but Rob Trevino of Evergreen Mountain Training and former Delta Trooper, told me directly that they had G22's as well as several other pistols depending on the mission.
StevieJ309
02-18-15, 16:41
IIRC the FDE mags were only made for G22's.
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac108/SJasper84/c04df21f59185e2b5f2ead1da27f2b72.jpeg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac108/SJasper84/17c146d996af86790d58038d091e9ba7.jpeg
SFARTAETC instructors at Bragg.
Those are just fde mag extensions for their 17's.
Those are just fde mag extensions for their 17's.
Doubtful. I have only ever seen the FDE magazines or FDE extensions on .40 caliber Glock 22 magazines. I have not seen any other information counter to this.
Rick
Doubtful. I have only ever seen the FDE magazines or FDE extensions on .40 caliber Glock 22 magazines. I have not seen any other information counter to this.
Rick
You can clearly see in the pic that they are extensions and not standard base plates.
Not sure if they are 17's or not, but they ARE extensions and not base plates.
Those are just fde mag extensions for their 17's.
There is no way to know that from these photos
Read above. M4Guru has quite a bit more experience in this business than I do. They are G22s.
Rick
Does it matter that much?
Marine security forces at embassies have been using G19's for 20 years.
And Pat Macnamara has stated that he thinks they were duped into getting the 40 calibers and would have been better off with 9mm variants.
Rick
On good authority that some of the SF outfits have turned G22 .40s into 9mm with caliber swaps. This may be because there were G22s readily available as the caliber fell from favor higher up the food chain.
Crow Hunter
02-19-15, 10:46
MARSOC has been using 19s for a while in Afghanistan much like other SOF units under SOCOM. The .45's have been less than reliable and keeping the large numbers they need up and running is tough. This MARADMIN is just making it official, along with providing a means for $ to support it with holsters, etc. outside of unit buys.
Glock 19s are used because that is what is provided to foreign forces. Then SOCOM trainers can carry them too because they are training those forces and need familiarity/commonality...kinda convenient.
While I am a avid Glock owner and am competing with Eurodriver to have the most personally owned G19s.
I think this is the most salient fact.
While I am a avid Glock owner and am competing with Eurodriver to have the most personally owned G19s.
I think this is the most salient fact.
And how many G19's do you own?
Crow Hunter
02-19-15, 12:19
And how many G19's do you own?
Five, I think but it might be six. I think it is 5 though. As well as several other Glocks so it tends to get confusing at times.
I honestly don't remember 100% for sure.:o
I think I also have 60+ magazines stuffed here and there IIRC.
My name is Crow Hunter and I am a Glock hoarder.
Five, I think but it might be six. I think it is 5 though. As well as several other Glocks so it tends to get confusing at times.
I honestly don't remember 100% for sure.:o
I think I also have 60+ magazines stuffed here and there IIRC.
My name is Crow Hunter and I am a Glock hoarder.
Much to learn you have, my young Padawan. Strong is the force with you, but a Jedi you are not yet...;)
Really not trying to be a dick, but those are 17's. I could tell you how I know, but then I'd have to kill ya' (just kidding). Feel free to PM for clarification.
Regards,
Jim
Gary1911A1
02-19-15, 13:34
On good authority that some of the SF outfits have turned G22 .40s into 9mm with caliber swaps. This may be because there were G22s readily available as the caliber fell from favor higher up the food chain.
I would be concerned about reliability given the wider breechface and different position of the extractor. Better to just put on a whole upper 17 slide even if it cost more. Maybe Glock would make them a deal.
I would be concerned about reliability given the wider breechface and different position of the extractor. Better to just put on a whole upper 17 slide even if it cost more. Maybe Glock would make them a deal.
Surprised me too. "Are you sure about that???"
He outta know. [shrug]
Crow Hunter
02-19-15, 14:04
Much to learn you have, my young Padawan. Strong is the force with you, but a Jedi you are not yet...;)
I said I was in a competition with Euro. You are so far ahead I don't even consider you being in the competition at all. We are junior Go-kart and you are on the NASCAR circuit. :jester:
Gary1911A1
02-19-15, 14:26
I predict sales of Glock 19s' will increase. I remember Glock importing 19s' to meet demand when Obama was elected so it may happen again.
Lipsey's could do a run with a MARPAT frame!
Ooo goody, the Marines admit to using Glocks, probably because either (1) it says they have to in a manual somewhere or (2) they'll get free money for doing so.
Next.
Internet=funny.
Lots of guns and lots of different bullets are used by various people.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter what model or grain bullet, as long as the right people are still standing at the end of the gunfight.
dwhitehorne
02-22-15, 12:34
Marine security forces at embassies have been using G19's for 20 years.
Well I was in MarDet Frankfurt, Mosscow and Ottawa and got out 21 years ago. We had Smith and Wesson 4 inch Model 19's . The standard DSS issue at the time. We also had one 2 inch Model 19 for all of us to share when wearing a suit. G19 vs model 19 big difference. David
dookie1481
02-22-15, 23:00
I predict sales of Glock 19s' will increase. I remember Glock importing 19s' to meet demand when Obama was elected so it may happen again.
No one outside of gun forums gives a shit who is using G19s.
They are already the most popular firearm (short of the cheap bullshit that invariably ends up in a trace) sold in the US, I believe.
MSGs got rid of the revolvers over a decade ago. Currently use M9/A1 and in the next couple of years will transition to the same pistol DSS uses again. So another pistol will enter the USMC's inventory
MARSOC has been using 19s for a while in Afghanistan much like other SOF units under SOCOM. The .45's have been less than reliable and keeping the large numbers they need up and running is tough. This MARADMIN is just making it official, along with providing a means for $ to support it with holsters, etc. outside of unit buys.
Glock 19s are used because that is what is provided to foreign forces. Then SOCOM trainers can carry them too because they are training those forces and need familiarity/commonality...kinda convenient.
The MARADMIN is only about allowing them to shoot the qualification course with them, by MCO you cannot carry for duty a weapon you have not qualified with in the last year.
Parabellum147
02-23-15, 12:17
...The G19 is the standard pistol for many units and agencies due to it good balance of size, capacity and conceal-ability.
^ Probably one of the best, most concise descriptions I've seen of the G19. "Big enough to fight with, small enough to conceal."
Yep ,the G-19 is the Swiss Army knife of combat pistols it doe's it all well. Those special op's men can carry more needed supplies when there there handgun is light . The heavy pig CQB is a freak-in boat anchor and a pain to carry. I would g19 too and carry more needed ammo ,mags and mission goods. The G-19 will fight like the rest. Be safe and live to see another sunrise.
platoonDaddy
10-04-16, 05:03
I find this very interesting: the men can carry it both concealed off-duty as well as into battle in a full battle rattle.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/10/john-boch/marines-dump-45s-9mm-special-ops/
About time someone made a wise decision.
sundance435
10-04-16, 11:35
I predict sales of Glock 19s' will increase. I remember Glock importing 19s' to meet demand when Obama was elected so it may happen again.
That's how I got my Austria-proofed G19. It's the only handgun I've never once thought of selling.
That's how I got my Austria-proofed G19. It's the only handgun I've never once thought of selling.
I just got a 26 that was Austrian Marked. So, I wouldn't doubt they are already importing some models to compensate for shortages/demand.
platoonDaddy
10-04-16, 13:08
Are they authorized under some law to carry concealed when off duty?
KalashniKEV
10-04-16, 14:14
Wonder why the G19 vs the G17
G19 > G17.
Also, Iraq is flooded with G19s and G19 mags.
KalashniKEV
10-04-16, 14:18
Are they authorized under some law to carry concealed when off duty?
LOL, yeah man... you just have to schedule your arms draw a week in advance and give a good reason.
"Country line dancing" should work.
LOL, yeah man... you just have to schedule your arms draw a week in advance and give a good reason.
"Country line dancing" should work.
♪ ♫
Swing high, swing low with a do si do si do
We will pass out in June, the G19s that we sure will swoon
On the banks of the Buffalo
♪ ♫
LOL, yeah man... you just have to schedule your arms draw a week in advance and give a good reason.
SI checks would get interesting to say the least.
platoonDaddy
10-04-16, 15:06
LOL, yeah man... you just have to schedule your arms draw a week in advance and give a good reason.
"Country line dancing" should work.
The article specifically states: the men can carry it both concealed off-duty as well as into battle in a full battle rattle.
Therefore the question
KalashniKEV
10-04-16, 17:11
The article specifically states: the men can carry it both concealed off-duty as well as into battle in a full battle rattle.
Therefore the question
TTAG is fake.
This is probably an article based on what some huge fat guy hanging out at a gun store said, who happened to have an EGA tattoo on his forearm.
i.e... fake.
KalashniKEV
10-04-16, 17:11
doublepost
platoonDaddy
10-04-16, 18:11
TTAG is fake.
This is probably an article based on what some huge fat guy hanging out at a gun store said, who happened to have an EGA tattoo on his forearm.
i.e... fake.
Should have done this in the 1st place, the following is cut and pasted from the MarineTimes. The reference to concealed carry profile, the author of TTAG took out of context.
Since last year, MARSOC has purchased and fielded 1,654 Glock 19s because Raiders needed a reliable secondary weapon that could be used for both a concealed carry profile and a low-visibility profile, and having one approved pistol for all special operators saves money, he said.
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articles/marines-opt-for-9mm-over-45-caliber-pistols-for-special-operators
crowkiller
10-05-16, 02:49
Are they using gen 3 or gen 4?
Since last year, MARSOC has purchased and fielded 1,654 Glock 19s because Raiders needed a reliable secondary weapon “that could be used for both a concealed carry profile and a low-visibility profile,” and having one approved pistol for all special operators saves money, he said.
Concealed i.e. clandestine, but not off-duty. No way is a MIL weapon leaving an arms room and going home with anyone; regardless of their unit or branch.
platoonDaddy
10-05-16, 05:53
Are they using gen 3 or gen 4?
The picture from the MarineTimes article shows a Gen 4
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articles/marines-opt-for-9mm-over-45-caliber-pistols-for-special-operators
KalashniKEV
10-05-16, 09:08
Concealed i.e. clandestine, but not off-duty.
This is my understanding, dumb as it is.
This has been posted elsewhere before, but relevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6-nuuRhOz0
They also talk about training in "civilian attire" where the only gun they have is the G19. I recall seeing the government contract form posted somewhere saying these were Gen 3 guns.
arbninftry
10-05-16, 17:21
Are they using gen 3 or gen 4?
Gen 3s are what is approved for purchase from SOCOM. I believe the CORP is buying off that authorization.
Concealed i.e. clandestine, but not off-duty. No way is a MIL weapon leaving an arms room and going home with anyone; regardless of their unit or branch.
It's extremely uncommon, but I've seen it in two instances (niether was USMC). Specific units, specific reasons and specified in writing on their orders.
Gen 3s are what is approved for purchase from SOCOM. I believe the CORP is buying off that authorization.
Correct. The SOCOM contract is for Gen 3's. Are you sure USMC is buying these? my understanding was SOCOM was buying them and providing them to MARSOC and other SOCOM elements.
SOCOM elements are both part of their parent service and also part of SOCOM. They receive both budget and SOCOM purchased equipment directly from SOCOM.
Are they authorized under some law to carry concealed when off duty?
CONUS .MIL members can carry concealed if it is specified on their orders in writing. This is extremely rare but is and has been done in certain units. In both instances I'm aware of the service members were on TDY, and both were senior NCOs.
On good authority that some of the SF outfits have turned G22 .40s into 9mm with caliber swaps. This may be because there were G22s readily available as the caliber fell from favor higher up the food chain.
I think JHC is talking about swapping a complete slide assembly, not just a conversion barrel.
You have to understand how the GOV/MIL system works. If something like a Glock 22 is already "in the system" and available, it us much easier to buy either Glock or Unity ATOM slide assemblies in 9mm via unit funds than to try and acquire Glock 17s or 19s.
The picture from the MarineTimes article shows a Gen 4
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articles/marines-opt-for-9mm-over-45-caliber-pistols-for-special-operators
Marine Corps Times is a commercial news organization and has no actual affiliation with the Marine Corps.
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