View Full Version : BATFE! What kind of operation are you guys running? E-form/E-file is un-useable.
Nightvisionary
02-22-15, 13:15
What a headache. I have had nothing but problems trying to submit a Form 1 over the last few days. When logging on to BATFE's system it recommends using Internet Explorer 8 or newer. I have a 2 week old computer with IE 11. It doesn't work with IE 11 so I used Google Chrome. I can usually get to the section for adding/uploading trust documents. About half the time it times out and says "Fetching data" and returns to the start page losing all previous data entered. Sometimes I can actually get to the end where it has the "Sign" and "Pay" button. It only allows me to click pay and when I do it sits there for 2-3 minutes before it times out, the fetching data message pops up and I am returned to the start page losing all previous entered information and uploaded documents in the process. I have repeated this process unsuccessfully so many times that I can complete almost the entire process and get to the "Pay" button at the end in 5-7 minutes. In addition to all that the website was just unavailable for most of the late evening on Friday night. The website is so difficult to use Im starting to wonder if it isn't that way on purpose. Complying with the law should not be this difficult.
Eurodriver
02-22-15, 13:17
Complying with the law should not be this difficult.
You obviously don't understand the big picture.
You can save your form as you complete the different sections.
It isn't that difficult and I have had zero issues with the site. I actually find it remarkably user friendly and efficient given it is run by the Government.
Probably something with your browser / computer or they're having issues that will eventually get resolved. Things do actually break from time to time.
I experienced a few issues similar as the OP and it took a few attempts to complete my forms. As mentioned, save your work as you proceed through. I didn't have any luck with IE 11 either. I ended up using Chrome.
It's not IE8 or newer. It's IE8. That's what I happen to have on my work laptop and have never had an issue. If you're using a newer version, you can go into compatibility mode and it works fine. I've also had zero issues using Safari. I've filed several from my iPhone (except for using laptop to upload docs).
The issues with paying are completely separate. Pay.gov is what is used, embedded into EForms, so you can have issue with EForms but not pay.gov or vice versa.
The whole thing is WAY better than it was in early 2014. I have very few problems with it at all...except that it's so simple I keep filing forms. Filed 3 last week, and already have 3 more in DRAFT status that will be submitted by the end of the week.
I used Firefox for three of them, and only had a minor issue with one of them. Being difficult is the sole purpose of the ATF's existence.
I have used Chrome for two of them with no issues. If possible I recommend completing the forms during the day and not at night or on a weekend. The database gets completely reindexed on Wednesdays, so IMO the best day & time to complete the form is on a thursday during the day.
Sorry for the slight derail but does anyone know what they actually do on the Wednesday shutdowns or what the purpose is? Just curious.
BATFE! What kind of operation are you guys running?
A monopoly.
Jwknutson17
02-22-15, 17:15
I had issues with IE. Have to un install IE a few times to get to IE 8. Firefox and chrome have worked well.
Sorry for the slight derail but does anyone know what they actually do on the Wednesday shutdowns or what the purpose is? Just curious.
Reboots and re-index of the database.
Reboots and re-index of the database.
What does it mean to "re-index" the database? Sorry if that's a dumb question.
What does it mean to "re-index" the database? Sorry if that's a dumb question.
A database is like a 3 dimensional excel file. Over time is get fragmented like your old windows XP hard disk used to get. You can take the database offline and run a script that checks all the tables, looks for any issues or corruption and will fix them. Depending on how well thought out and architected the database is the less this needs to happen and can be done in the background - think facebook and twitter vs obamacare and eforms ;)
A database is like a 3 dimensional excel file. Over time is get fragmented like your old windows XP hard disk used to get. You can take the database offline and run a script that checks all the tables, looks for any issues or corruption and will fix them. Depending on how well thought out and architected the database is the less this needs to happen and can be done in the background - think facebook and twitter vs obamacare and eforms ;)
Gotcha, thanks!
The issues with paying are completely separate. Pay.gov is what is used, embedded into EForms, so you can have issue with EForms but not pay.gov or vice versa.
This was the issue I had. It timed out when I submitted payment. I got a confirmation email for payment, but Eforms didn't recognize I had paid. I had to cancel that payment and resubmit. It worked fine the second time.
I used Google Chrome and didn't have any issues, except for this Pay.gov issue. As I said previously, save your progress so that if you are booted you can start back where you left off.
Nightvisionary
02-22-15, 18:44
I just tried it on a different computer and got booted waiting for the payment window to pop up again. I think I will just wait until tomorrow, maybe I will have better luck then.
Try using firefox, that is the browser I used without any issues at all.
Forgive my ignorance... but looking at doing an NFA Item for the first time... is the E-File up and running now?
Forgive my ignorance... but looking at doing an NFA Item for the first time... is the E-File up and running now?
I would say that it is working better now than it ever has. I recently submitted two forms perfectly, with no hiccups whatsoever. The third form would not allow me to sign and submit for a few days, but I finally figured it out on my own.
I would say that it is working better now than it ever has. I recently submitted two forms perfectly, with no hiccups whatsoever. The third form would not allow me to sign and submit for a few days, but I finally figured it out on my own.
So is it General Consensus that E-File is much faster than submitting a Form 4 Trust via Paper?
So is it General Consensus that E-File is much faster than submitting a Form 4 Trust via Paper?
Efiling Form 4s is not available yet so you'd have to mail a paper copy. Efiling a Form 1 is at about a 35 day turnaround.
Efiling Form 4s is not available yet so you'd have to mail a paper copy. Efiling a Form 1 is at about a 35 day turnaround.
Is a Form 1 for Manufacture like say for an SBR that you create?
I'm considering buying a Muffler.
Is a Form 1 for Manufacture like say for an SBR that you create?
I'm considering buying a Muffler.
Yes. Suppressors would be a form 4.
If you are building the suppressor or SBR you would file a form 1. If you are buying a complete SBR or factory suppressor, then you would file a form 4.
Gotcha, thanks guys.
Dag nabbit, why in the world would a Form 1 E-File be possible right now, but not a Form 4... that kills me.
OrignalRECIPE73
02-24-15, 08:21
Chrome is love Chrome is life!
Praises be unto Chrome!!!
~Skeeter
Is a Form 1 for Manufacture like say for an SBR that you create?
I'm considering buying a Muffler.
Just to be clear...it's to Make a firearm, not Manufacture a firearm. Might mean the same thing to you and me, but it's a whole different set of licenses and fees to the BATFE.
F1 = Make and Register
F4 = Transfer
You can even transfer a Form 1 build to somebody else on a Form 4, so "factory" isn't the only type of items that it applies to.
I tried to fill out a form 1 on a government computer system it would lock up in first section when I could log in to the site. I finally completed it on smart phone 25 days ago. It took 5 days logging on and off losing all of my information. The main problem I had was saving a copy of my trust.
Just to be clear...it's to Make a firearm, not Manufacture a firearm. Might mean the same thing to you and me, but it's a whole different set of licenses and fees to the BATFE.
F1 = Make and Register
F4 = Transfer
You can even transfer a Form 1 build to somebody else on a Form 4, so "factory" isn't the only type of items that it applies to.
Thanks for the clarification!
Maybe I could ask a couple more questions then, since you guys are on a roll.... If I were to do a Form 1 SBR with an existing lower I already have, I won't have to go through a Class 3/SOT Dealer correct? just have the Lower Engraved before I put a less-than-16" upper on her, once I've gotten the Tax Stamp back?
Also, once you have that Form 1 SBR Lower, can I then, say, have 3 different 10.5" uppers laying around, even though I have just that one SBR Lower... while still having 16" and 18" Rifles around in close proximity?
Thanks for the clarification!
Maybe I could ask a couple more questions then, since you guys are on a roll.... If I were to do a Form 1 SBR with an existing lower I already have, I won't have to go through a Class 3/SOT Dealer correct? just have the Lower Engraved before I put a less-than-16" upper on her, once I've gotten the Tax Stamp back?
Also, once you have that Form 1 SBR Lower, can I then, say, have 3 different 10.5" uppers laying around, even though I have just that one SBR Lower... while still having 16" and 18" Rifles around in close proximity?
Correct. There's no dealer involved when you file a Form 1.
Multiple uppers are fine with a registered lower.
Correct. There's no dealer involved when you file a Form 1.
Multiple uppers are fine with a registered lower.
Sweet. So I can buy a carbine Milspec lower, have it shipped to my FFL, take it home after 4473, submit my Form 1 Trust via E-File and pay $200 Tax Stamp, and while waiting for it to get approved, send off lower to be Engraved (engraving a must?)... then once approved, order an SBR Upper, slap it together and I'm good to go? That simple? Out of order on events at all?
Sweet. So I can buy a carbine Milspec lower, have it shipped to my FFL, take it home after 4473, submit my Form 1 Trust via E-File and pay $200 Tax Stamp, and while waiting for it to get approved, send off lower to be Engraved (engraving a must?)... then once approved, order an SBR Upper, slap it together and I'm good to go? That simple? Out of order on events at all?
All looks good to me.
Two notes:
1. Remove the question mark from "engraving a must?"
2. You could go ahead and file the F1 in EForms once you get the S/N when buy it...might save you a week or more, instead of waiting until you pick it up from FFL
All looks good to me.
Two notes:
1. Remove the question mark from "engraving a must?"
2. You could go ahead and file the F1 in EForms once you get the S/N when buy it...might save you a week or more, instead of waiting until you pick it up from FFL
Copy that, must engrave. Either side of Magwell is ok, I assume?
Would it be bad juju to have a 10.5/11.5" upper sitting here waiting for Form 1 approval?
Statutes states "conspicuously placed" on frame, receiver, barrel or pistol slide (if applicable). Most common locations are:
1. Right side over trigger pins
2. Right side of magwell
3. Front if magwell
4. Under trigger guard/around trigger hole
ATF Ruling 2013-3 (https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/atf-ruling-2013-3-adopting-identification-on-firearms.pdf) spells it out fairly clearly.
The legal answer is don't have it around unless you have a legal configuration pistol lower or SBR lower. Not that anybidy would condone your behavior, but if you order it and don't post about it, who would know?
Statutes states "conspicuously placed" on frame, receiver, barrel or pistol slide (if applicable). Most common locations are:
1. Right side over trigger pins
2. Right side of magwell
3. Front if magwell
4. Under trigger guard/around trigger hole
ATF Ruling 2013-3 (https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/atf-ruling-2013-3-adopting-identification-on-firearms.pdf) spells it out fairly clearly.
The legal answer is don't have it around unless you have a legal configuration pistol lower or SBR lower. Not that anybidy would condone your behavior, but if you order it and don't post about it, who would know?
Rodge-o. Thanks for all your help. Much appreciated, sir.
heartbreakridge01
02-25-15, 18:46
Try clicking the compatibility button on your IE. I had the same problem with my work computer (NMCI network) I figured out the compatibility thing trying to use another website. Once I did that it was back to normal.
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