View Full Version : Decided on what to buy
I have decide after all input from many members that I need at least 5-7 different AR's to even make an informed choice. So I am going to start to buy all of them as I find them.Then I am going to test them,carry them and check them out from end to end. After that I will sell all but the top 3 that I like,need and want. Probably a year long adventure but today is a good day to start. My 54th today so on my 55th I will probably know what I am happy with. I am going to use one of them for a full time hunting rifle so this ought to be a fun project. My hunting ammo will be Corbon DPX 62gr with the Barnes Triple Shock X bullet. I have used it before and it is an excellent hunting bullet. Any ideas,input will be appreciated. Now you know the reason for all my AR questions lately. I will try to keep this updated as it happens.
rifleshooter
07-06-08, 16:45
I have decide after all input from many members that I need at least 5-7 different AR's to even make an informed choice. So I am going to start to buy all of them as I find them.Then I am going to test them,carry them and check them out from end to end. After that I will sell all but the top 3 that I like,need and want. Probably a year long adventure but today is a good day to start. My 54th today so on my 55th I will probably know what I am happy with. I am going to use one of them for a full time hunting rifle so this ought to be a fun project. My hunting ammo will be Corbon DPX 62gr with the Barnes Triple Shock X bullet. I have used it before and it is an excellent hunting bullet. Any ideas,input will be appreciated. Now you know the reason for all my AR questions lately. I will try to keep this updated as it happens.
I wish you a lot of good luck this will make a good reading thread.
I am on my second AR buy first was the S&WM&P15T it really turned out great and now I have a LM&T Defender 2000 and it's been great.
But the rifles are just the tip of the buying deal. Next comes the sighting systems and a lot of spare parts and add on stuff.
Then you really need some qualty AR tools they really do come in very handy.
Don't wait too long because prices will be shooting up IMHO.:)
Soulrack223
07-06-08, 16:54
I assume that Colt and LMT are 2 of them, what are the others? Noveske, Sabre, ADS, Charles Daly, SLR, LWRC...
allow me to encourage you to "hunt" with something more powerful than a .223--5.56.-- i was a super fan of p.o. ackley years ago, tried .220 swift on deer,,, not good!!!! give the little animals at least a happy "offing", instead of a lingering, painful death. decency calls for it, instead of "i'm gonna see what this sucker will do."
I mostly archery hunt.Trust me the Corbon DPX 62 gr will take any deer and it will do it fast. The Barnes bullet is a killing machine. This is not going to be a 500 yard rifle it is a 100 yard hunting rifle. If you know your equipment and limitations you can be successful with about anything. I do not wound deer I kill them be it with a bow,muzzleloader or rifle. If you think a 270 is a better deer round than a 223 use it. I hae used 223 to 375 all over the world so I pretty much have an idea what will and will not do the job. Now if you were talking 223 in FMJ I would be insulted that you would even mention it. The Corbon DPX ammo is hunting ammo not tactical ammo as they try to make some believe. Any Barnes X bullet is a hunting bullet be it for man or beast.
Amy more recommendations to my long signature list. I think I need to add a colt 6601 maybe. Tell me why i need to add a Charles Daly to my line up. S&W is out period. Issues between me and them over days gone by. Any special builds to consider.I am also going to add a Spikes 22lr of some sort to the line up. Lots of these will become safe queens for bad days ahead. Recommend some fair ammo to store and keep. No TAP.Just to costly.Looking at know morethan 500.00 per 1000 except for my 3 boxes of Corbon DPX 62 gr for other purposes. What is the best ammo to test for mil style accuracy and applications? Looking for mil contract ammo. I will update as things progress or I have more questions I need help. As of now anyone who has the guns on my signature list please chime in with all the info you have to date. We will try to make this thread as useful as possible to everyone. I used THE CHART for my partial list of rifles and added a few that I just wanted to shoot. No fancy rails,lights or accessories.Just guns that will perform when Gas is 10.00 per gallon and the zombies are out day and night.
I am going to try to keep my budget for 10 rifles and ammo to 15,000 to 20,000.Of course this is over some time as some of this stuff will be hard to find.I am going to search for the best prices on the guns and ammo.If you have or find a NIB on the list at a bargin please let me know.Same goes for ammo.Get yours and let me know about the rest.I will need lots of help with this project.It is quite possible I have bitten off more than I can handle. It will take a lot of time to get all this found,bought and tested as I want. Wish me luck.
Any guesses to which I will like the best from 1 to 5?
Any guesses to which I will like the best from 1 to 5?
If you ever sell any of your Colts, LMT, or Sabres, call me......:D
Second, is your job hiring???????? :D
The railroad is always hiring.They are also firing just as fast.We have lots of rules and headaches.That is why my hobby is shooting and collecting guns.I do not have time for fishing but I make time to hunt. I can use my laptop when i am on the road to look for bargins. And I am going to have to look hard for this project.You noticed I left off a lot of good guns just what I consider second tier weapons.Nothing wrong with them just not my preferance. I do think you pay about 200.00 extra for the Colt,LMT and Sabre name but the guns seem to be worth it.Right now it looks like the champ of the day is the ADS gun for the money.
rifleshooter
07-07-08, 15:57
The rifle is not everything the sighting system you buy makes it really work. I have one sight my ACOG that set me back over $1200 but it sure makes hitting things easy so it's well worth the money. I also have a EOTech I use and it works well cost over $500 also well worth the money IMHO.:)
I'm new here on this forum but thanks to these guys, I bought a Colt 6920 and think it's fantastic.
So I say 6920 goes at the top of the list.
rifleshooter
07-08-08, 14:02
I'm new here on this forum but thanks to these guys, I bought a Colt 6920 and think it's fantastic.
So I say 6920 goes at the top of the list.
You can't go wrong with that choice.;) Give us a good range report when you shoot it.:)
Colt 6920 is in hand. Chasing down my test ammo. Give me some input on my test ammo. I will say I am not going to use any of the high priced TAP ammo. I may use the Privi March Ammo for a heavy bullet test. I am going to sight in a 100 yards and that will be the test range. I am sure some guns will like different ammo better than others. My main choices for ammo are M193 in different makers,M855 LC and other Nato spec. I did get an email from Sabre today.They will build me any model I choose with any setup I want. All of these rifles are going to be kept to a minimum on added options.Mostly waht you get from the factory. This is going to be interesting,time consuming and did I mention expensive. But when I am done I will know for sure which makers and models I perfer. Remember not every gun is for everybody.Some use them for work,some for home defense,some for SHTF guns and some for hunting and target shooting.I am going to see if there is one that will do it all. I am doubtful that that gun exists. I figure I will end up with 3-5 when it is all over and the others I will probably sell. All will be shot with a Leupold 4X Target Dot scope if possible. On any A2 fixed handles I am going to use the sights on the gun. Now give me some ammo suggestions and where I can get it.
rifleshooter
07-08-08, 18:51
Well I wish you lots of good luck in your quest to find the best for each of your uses.:)
Not the way I would want to undertake this type of project but I am not the one doing it.;)
Please keep us informed on your progress.:)
Well I added a Sabre Defence XR15A3 M4 to the line up today.Found a bargin and bought a bargin.NIB. 2 down and a few to go.Still looking for some ammo input for the test.What do you want to see shot thru my guns.So far I am going to use M193,M855,Corbon DPX 62gr,Corbon Performance 77gr BTHP.Give me some more choices.Have any of you shot tracers thru your AR's?
Charles Daly
07-10-08, 01:15
.... Tell me why i need to add a Charles Daly to my line up. ....
Is anyone else going to answer this for him or am I going to have to? :(
allow me to encourage you to "hunt" with something more powerful than a .223--5.56.-- i was a super fan of p.o. ackley years ago, tried .220 swift on deer,,, not good!!!! give the little animals at least a happy "offing", instead of a lingering, painful death. decency calls for it, instead of "i'm gonna see what this sucker will do."
I realize that others may not have the same experiences and success as me, but I have been using Winchester 64gr PP rounds with 100% success on whitetail for the past few years.... All of these shots have been under 200 yards... I am certain that shot placement has had alot to do with it.
.... Tell me why i need to add a Charles Daly to my line up. ....Is anyone else going to answer this for him or am I going to have to? :(
As a happy owner of a CD I can tell you why I bought mine. Mainly its a case where for the features it has, the materials its built out of, overall finish, and price point I found it to be a fantastic deal and couldn't pass it up. I also happy with the easy accessibility of CD (though here and other venues) and their commitment to customer service and producing a quality weapon. So yes I would give this weapon serious consideration.
Is anyone else going to answer this for him or am I going to have to? :(
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=14904
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=13937 (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=13937)
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2904#post2904 (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2904#post2904)
I bought the ADS before the CD was an option. If I were to do it again today, I would buy the CD. The ADS has run 100% with good ammo, but Grant at G&R had to upgrade the BCG on the factory. The lack of customer support from ADS has left me cold. ADS has yet to respond to me on my slight gas leak issue (several emails and calls since April 2008)). The rail on my gun is roughly machined.
Is my ADS serviceable as a duty weapon? You bet. Was it the best deal going at the time? You bet (given Grant's BCG upgrades). If I were buying today would I make the same choice? Nope. Charles Daly would get my money given the reviews and the company's exposure here and other forums (disclaimer: I have yet to see a CD AR personally). Customer service is also obviously important to them.
Your original question was that five AR's to buy. FWIW, my list (minus your current rifles) would be:
1. Noveske
2. LMT
3. Charles Daly
4. ADS (from Grant)
As I said, I have yet to handle a Charles Daly weapon, but given the reviews from trusted folks, I might say that numbers 2 & 3 might even be interchangeable :eek:
The ADS is not necessarily a bad choice, but it is last in my "for serious use" category.
Good info guys.Keep it coming. I am out trying to make some money to pay for this quest.
It's certainly not a bad way of going about it, but like you're finding it will get expensive.
Depending on how you want to go about testing them, and what your intended end-use is, there are some ways of making the hit a little less.
For accuracy testing, get yourself an inexpensive but quality variable optic and mount it in a throwlever mount. I went with a European Leupold 3-9x with 30mm tube (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=250398&t=22164010) and I mounted it in a Larue mount (http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=30). Pop the lever, move it from one rifle to another, re-zero, and you're good to go. Saves you having to buy $700 worth of optics for each gun just to see how it groups.
Depending on you use, you could even do the same thing with a red dot sight like an Aimpoint. You're only going to be able to shoot one gun at a time, so there's really no point (for testing purposes) in putting an optic on every single gun at once.
Also, start buying ammo now. And keep buying it. Buy 10s of thousands of rounds. You're going to need it in order for any of your conclusions to be worthwhile.
I did something not unlike what you're doing, but with gear not guns. I knew all along that I'd wind up with Colts, so about 5 years ago I built one gun that had an LMT upper and a Bushmaster lower, and another gun out of a stripped RRA lower and a J&T upper. I then put a DD rail on one, an LT on the other, a Vltor stock on one, a Magpul on the other, an Aimpoint on one, an Eotech on the other, etc. like that with no two identical parts on either gun. Then I shot the piss out of them, figured out which parts from each I liked, bought a Colt and built it up with the best parts from each gun. It was a great learning process, and I continue today to buy new parts as they come out and test them out on the 4 Colts that I now have.
If I was trying to do what you're doing, I'd take the top makes/models from the chart as my list of testers. Of course, in base guns alone this would get real expensive real quick.
Colt 6920 $1300
Noveske N4 $1400
LMT Defender 16" M4 $1200
Sabre Defence 90244 $1150
Smith and Wesson M&P15 $1000
Charles Daly D-M4LE $1000
That's $7k in base rifles alone with no ammo, magazines, optics, or ammo. Did I say ammo?
I would say that you're going to need to put between 2-4k rounds through each to have any kind of real idea how they hold up. At 6 guns that 12-24k rounds of ammo. That's $3500-$7k in ammo if you just use Wolf.
Figure on $2k in optics, mags, slings, etc.
So now you're up to a $15k project. If you've got it, I think it will be an AWESOME project and will give you all kinds of great info when you're done. I look forward to reading about your progress.
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