View Full Version : VA Secretary and Stolen Valor???
Averageman
02-24-15, 08:15
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/02/23/va-secretary-robert-macdonald-caught-on-video-making-big-false-claim-about-his-military-service/
In a video package published by CBS News on Jan. 30, a homeless veteran is seen telling McDonald that he served in special forces.
“Special forces? What years? I was in special forces!” McDonald replied.
Ummmm, no not really; but what the heck he is doing a bang up job with the VA.
What an idiot to lie, there was nothing to gain...much to lose.
brickboy240
02-24-15, 11:41
It appears that the Dems really don't care that he lied.
Weren't they also cool with that Senator from CT that also claimed Vietnam service when he did not really go?
Averageman
02-24-15, 11:42
In a job like that and under the scrutiny that the VA is now under, can they afford this type of blunder?
Currently their scandals and cost may be far outweighing their worth at this point. Give the Vets a card paying for their VA benefits and allow them all to go anywhere for the care they need.
This is a failing system and the failure is certainly looking to be from the top down.
wildcard600
02-24-15, 15:49
So he completed ranger training but was never really a ranger ?
meh... not like he said he was a coast guard civil air patrol reserve sEaL with 60000 confirmed kills at San Juan hill.
From video clip ( he was walking down street at night talking to homeless folks):
VaGuy: [asks him if vet, what branch]
HomelessGuy: Army
VaGuy: What Unit?
HomelessGuy: special forces
VaGuy: special forces. What years? I was in special forces
So HomelessGuy did not answer with which unit so VaGuy just identified himself with same answer homeless guy gave. Not seeing how anything is seriously wrong here. Seems like he was just trying to connect a conversation with a homeless vet. Not like he put 5th SF on his resume
wildcard600
02-24-15, 16:57
From video clip ( he was walking down street at night talking to homeless folks):
VaGuy: [asks him if vet, what branch]
HomelessGuy: Army
VaGuy: What Unit?
HomelessGuy: special forces
VaGuy: special forces. What years? I was in special forces
So HomelessGuy did not answer with which unit so VaGuy just identified himself with same answer homeless guy gave. Not seeing how anything is seriously wrong here. Seems like he was just trying to connect a conversation with a homeless vet. Not like he put 5th SF on his resume
But alot of people have such hardons for "exposing" every single person who "steals valor" as a "fraud". When one of them happens to have some kind of association with the current admin... look out cause the gloves are coming off !!!
Eurodriver
02-24-15, 18:11
Haha, someone associated with the VA claiming to be Special Forces untruthfully?
He fits right in! He should be commended for his understanding of the VA's typical patient.
Averageman
02-24-15, 19:06
Homeless Guy is Homeless.The head of the VA is living large on your dime.
You aren't paying the homeless guys F'ing salary while the guys who served are treated like shit.
I'm not sure how you were treated by the VA, but I can assure you afterthey lost my records and then while I was attempting to claim a disability from hitting a mine I was asked to come back when it hurt.
I can assure you when it "hurt" I was on the floor and unable to move. When a private MD saw my X-Rays within 2 minutes they understood why I had pain.
When my 70 year old Uncle went for a colonoscopy they punctured his colon and he now wears a bag to catch his poop.
Yeah, he's "Special" all right.
Fix the F'ing VA !
Now that would be "Special"
as this post shows some folks dont care if folks lie today ? its like OH who cares not a big deal
and that is the break down of whats happening and ethics etc. out the window
Averageman
02-24-15, 19:47
If he is so F'ing special why doesn't the DumbFeck fix the Fi'ng VA?
wildcard600
02-24-15, 20:19
Homeless Guy is Homeless.The head of the VA is living large on your dime.
You aren't paying the homeless guys F'ing salary while the guys who served are treated like shit.
I'm not sure how you were treated by the VA, but I can assure you afterthey lost my records and then while I was attempting to claim a disability from hitting a mine I was asked to come back when it hurt.
I can assure you when it "hurt" I was on the floor and unable to move. When a private MD saw my X-Rays within 2 minutes they understood why I had pain.
When my 70 year old Uncle went for a colonoscopy they punctured his colon and he now wears a bag to catch his poop.
Yeah, he's "Special" all right.
Fix the F'ing VA !
Now that would be "Special"
as this post shows some folks dont care if folks lie today ? its like OH who cares not a big deal
and that is the break down of whats happening and ethics etc. out the window
I don't see that he "lied". He completed ranger school, which I believe is considered a "special forces". Just because he didn't deploy as a ranger or wasn't officially a ranger, in the context of the conversation it seems like maybe he just misspoke while trying to make a connection with this guy. Yes, a more accurate statement would have been "I trained with SF xxxx year(s)." Maybe he wanted to see if the guy was in ranger school or serving in the rangers in the same time frame ?
Chris Kyle claims to have sniped looters during Katrina and smoked some guys trying to steal his truck but I don't remember seeing a thread about how much of a liar he was.
I don't see that he "lied". He completed ranger school, which I believe is considered a "special forces". Just because he didn't deploy as a ranger or wasn't officially a ranger, in the context of the conversation it seems like maybe he just misspoke while trying to make a connection with this guy. Yes, a more accurate statement would have been "I trained with SF xxxx year(s)." Maybe he wanted to see if the guy was in ranger school or serving in the rangers in the same time frame ?
Chris Kyle claims to have sniped looters during Katrina and smoked some guys trying to steal his truck but I don't remember seeing a thread about how much of a liar he was.
Going to Ranger School in no way makes you even close to being in special operations.
wildcard600
02-24-15, 21:26
Going to Ranger School in no way makes you even close to being in special operations.
Please re-read my post.
Chris Kyle claims to have sniped looters during Katrina and smoked some guys trying to steal his truck but I don't remember seeing a thread about how much of a liar he was.
Shhh... :secret:
I don't see that he "lied". He completed ranger school, which I believe is considered a "special forces". Just because he didn't deploy as a ranger or wasn't officially a ranger, in the context of the conversation it seems like maybe he just misspoke while trying to make a connection with this guy. Yes, a more accurate statement would have been "I trained with SF xxxx year(s)." Maybe he wanted to see if the guy was in ranger school or serving in the rangers in the same time frame ?
Chris Kyle claims to have sniped looters during Katrina and smoked some guys trying to steal his truck but I don't remember seeing a thread about how much of a liar he was.
I do not fault you for not understanding the distinctions between soldiers who completed Ranger school, the 75th Ranger Regiment, and Special Forces. The differences can be confusing if you never were in the Army. Let me summarize:
The Ranger School is about a 60-day leadership course that utilizes small unit infantry tactics. It is not a special forces school, and its leadership in the Ranger Training Brigade report up through the Infantry School and Combined Maneuver Center at Fort Benning - not the Special Operations Command. Attending the school is a requirement of all new infantry officers after graduating the infantry basic course (IBOLC). Successful completion of the course earns the soldier the coveted Ranger Tab that is worn on the uniform, but the vast majority of graduating soldiers will return to their regular line infantry units. Soldiers who graduate Ranger School are referred to as Rangers on that day, but not when they return to their units. Instead, that are generally referred to as "tab holders."
The term "Rangers" is generally reserved for soldiers serving in the 75th Ranger Regiment who wear a tan beret. The 75th is the Army's premier rapid reaction light infantry and raid force. It is a rather unique infantry unit in that its higher command is the Special Operations Command AND it has a very rigorous 8-week selection process (RASP) separate from Ranger School for all new recruits and leaders taking a new command within the Regiment. All of the officers in command positions and most of the NCO's in the Regiment have successfully completed Ranger School as part of their career progression. However, most of the junior enlisted Ranger recruits will join the Regiment after completing RASP and eventually go to Ranger School as their deployment tempo allows (there is a waiverable E4 grade requirement to attend Ranger School). It is standard convention to refer to soldiers in the 75th as "Rangers" even if they have not earned their tab. However, woe to the 75th soldier who washes out of Ranger School when given their chance.
Special Forces are the Army's elite unconventional warfare specialists. Membership is contingent on completion of the Q Course that is run out of the JFK Special Warfare Center and School at Ft. Bragg. Unlike the Ranger School which reports to the Infantry School, the Q Course is owned and operated by the Special Forces Command and only Special Forces candidates attend. At graduation, SF soldiers are awarded the Green Beret but must complete many weeks of language, technical, weapons, et al training before being assigned to an SF Group. Some SF soldiers will go to Ranger School as part of their career development if they did not already have a Ranger Tab prior to the Q Course.
While civilians may not understand the difference between these soldiers, it is unfathomable that a WP grad who earned his tab would make a mistake in the designation. Either he was being sarcastic or deceptive and I suppose that it is up to each of us to decide which.
When it comes to Chris Kyle and several other members of NSW who have created an industry by misrepresenting their service, several of us have pointed this out on this forum and others. We are generally downed out by the chorus of hero worshipers who seem to give special treatment to BUDs graduates.
I do not fault you for not understanding the distinctions between soldiers who completed Ranger school, the 75th Ranger Regiment, and Special Forces. The differences can be confusing if you never were in the Army. Let me summarize:
The Ranger School is about a 60-day leadership course that utilizes small unit infantry tactics. It is not a special forces school, and its leadership in the Ranger Training Brigade report up through the Infantry School and Combined Maneuver Center at Fort Benning - not the Special Operations Command. Attending the school is a requirement of all new infantry officers after graduating the infantry basic course (IBOLC). Successful completion of the course earns the soldier the coveted Ranger Tab that is worn in the uniform, but the vast majority of graduating soldiers will return to their regular line infantry units. Soldiers who graduate Ranger School are referred to as Rangers on that day, but not when they return to their units. Instead, that are generally referred to as "tab holders."
The term "Rangers" is generally reserved for soldiers serving in the 75th Ranger Regiment who wear a tan beret. The 75th is a rather unique infantry unit in that its higher command is the Special Operations Command AND it has a very rigorous 8-week selection process (RASP) other than Ranger School for all new recruits and leaders taking a new command within the Regiment. All of the officers in command positions and most of the NCO's in the Regiment have successfully completed Ranger School as part of their career progression. However, most of more junior enlisted Ranger recruits will join the Regiment after completing RASP and eventually go to Ranger School as their deployment tempo allows. It is standard convention to refer to soldiers in the 75th as "Rangers" even if they have not earned their tab. However, woe to the 75th soldier who washes out of Ranger School when given their chance.
Special Forces are the Army's elite unconventional warfare specialists. Membership is contingent on completion of the Q Course that is run out of the JFK Special Forces School at Ft. Bragg. Unlike the Ranger School which reports to the Infantry School, the Q Course is owned and operated by the Special Forces Command and only Special Forces candidates attend. At graduation, SF soldiers are awarded the Green Beret but must complete many weeks of language, technical, weapons, et al training before being assigned to an SF Group. Some SF soldiers will go to Ranger School as part of their career development if they did not already have a Ranger Tab prior to the Q Course.
While civilians may not understand the difference between these soldiers, it is unfathomable that a WP grad who earned his tab would make a mistake in the designation. Either he was being sarcastic or deseptive and I suppose that it is up to each of us to decide which.
When it comes to Chris Kyle and several other members of NSW who have created an industry by misrepresenting their service, several of us have pointed this out on this forum and others. We are generally downed out by the chorus of hero worshipers who seem to give special treatment to BUDs graduates.
Good post.
One question though... how did Chris Kyle misrepresent his service under NAVSPECWAR? Am I missing something?
Good post.
One question though... how did Chris Kyle misrepresent his service under NAVSPECWAR? Am I missing something?
Kyle made a claim that he and another SEAL deployed to NE during Katrina and killed 30 rioters at the Super Dome. This is BS and discredited by SOCOM.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairs
Some people focus lies about completing military schools such as people who claim to be SEALs, Rangers, or SF. However, I draw no distinction between those liars and the ones who make-up or distort missions for their own glorification. Kyle very well have been a great SEAL who saved lots of American lives, but he also had a serious integrity problem.
wildcard600
02-25-15, 22:24
I do not fault you for not understanding the distinctions between soldiers who completed Ranger school, the 75th Ranger Regiment, and Special Forces. The differences can be confusing if you never were in the Army. Let me summarize:
The Ranger School is about a 60-day leadership course that utilizes small unit infantry tactics. It is not a special forces school, and its leadership in the Ranger Training Brigade report up through the Infantry School and Combined Maneuver Center at Fort Benning - not the Special Operations Command. Attending the school is a requirement of all new infantry officers after graduating the infantry basic course (IBOLC). Successful completion of the course earns the soldier the coveted Ranger Tab that is worn on the uniform, but the vast majority of graduating soldiers will return to their regular line infantry units. Soldiers who graduate Ranger School are referred to as Rangers on that day, but not when they return to their units. Instead, that are generally referred to as "tab holders."
The term "Rangers" is generally reserved for soldiers serving in the 75th Ranger Regiment who wear a tan beret. The 75th is a rather unique infantry unit in that its higher command is the Special Operations Command AND it has a very rigorous 8-week selection process (RASP) other than Ranger School for all new recruits and leaders taking a new command within the Regiment. All of the officers in command positions and most of the NCO's in the Regiment have successfully completed Ranger School as part of their career progression. However, most of more junior enlisted Ranger recruits will join the Regiment after completing RASP and eventually go to Ranger School as their deployment tempo allows. It is standard convention to refer to soldiers in the 75th as "Rangers" even if they have not earned their tab. However, woe to the 75th soldier who washes out of Ranger School when given their chance.
Special Forces are the Army's elite unconventional warfare specialists. Membership is contingent on completion of the Q Course that is run out of the JFK Special Forces School at Ft. Bragg. Unlike the Ranger School which reports to the Infantry School, the Q Course is owned and operated by the Special Forces Command and only Special Forces candidates attend. At graduation, SF soldiers are awarded the Green Beret but must complete many weeks of language, technical, weapons, et al training before being assigned to an SF Group. Some SF soldiers will go to Ranger School as part of their career development if they did not already have a Ranger Tab prior to the Q Course.
While civilians may not understand the difference between these soldiers, it is unfathomable that a WP grad who earned his tab would make a mistake in the designation. Either he was being sarcastic or deceptive and I suppose that it is up to each of us to decide which.
When it comes to Chris Kyle and several other members of NSW who have created an industry by misrepresenting their service, several of us have pointed this out on this forum and others. We are generally downed out by the chorus of hero worshipers who seem to give special treatment to BUDs graduates.
I appreciate the clarification, and it does help to explain why others see this as such a faux pas.
However, as renegade pointed out, its not like he was trying to use this as a bullet point to further his career or credibility in the .gov realm. I personally am a lot more concerned about the magnitude of lies that emanate from the office of the white house and congress on a daily basis.
IMO
wildcard600
02-25-15, 22:30
Kyle made a claim that he and another SEAL deployed to NE during Katrina and killed 30 rioters at the Super Dome. This is BS and discredited by SOCOM.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairs
Some people focus lies about completing military schools such as people who claim to be SEALs, Rangers, or SF. However, I draw no distinction between those liars and the ones who make-up or distort missions for their own glorification. Kyle very well have been a great SEAL who saved lots of American lives, but he also had a serious integrity problem.
Agreed. As the late Daniel Inouye illustrated, one can be an exceptional soldier but still a rather distasteful person of questionable ethics.
However, as renegade pointed out, its not like he was trying to use this as a bullet point to further his career or credibility in the .gov realm. I personally am a lot more concerned about the magnitude of lies that emanate from the office of the white house and congress on a daily basis.
IMO
I'm inclined to believe that he was being sarcastic to a hobo that he knew was lying. Kinda like when someone says something outlandish and you reply with something equally unbelievable. Unfortunately for him, being sarcastic to a hobo vet does not come off well when you are a Cabinet Secretary.
I have no way to prove this; it's just what my gut tells me.
I'm far more concerned that we have 22 veterans committing suicide every day. We're over $18 TRILLION in debt as a nation. Our President lies like it's his job and has shit on our Constitution and country. I could go on and on...
Thus far, Bob's done a pretty good job for vets, I think the whole thing's been blown out of proportion, and there are far more important things to worry about.
I'm far more concerned that we have 22 veterans committing suicide every day. We're over $18 TRILLION in debt as a nation. Our President lies like it's his job and has shit on our Constitution and country. I could go on and on...
Thus far, Bob's done a pretty good job for vets, I think the whole thing's been blown out of proportion, and there are far more important things to worry about.
Like this?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?165918-VA-Candy-Land&
From video clip ( he was walking down street at night talking to homeless folks):
VaGuy: [asks him if vet, what branch]
HomelessGuy: Army
VaGuy: What Unit?
HomelessGuy: special forces
VaGuy: special forces. What years? I was in special forces
So HomelessGuy did not answer with which unit so VaGuy just identified himself with same answer homeless guy gave. Not seeing how anything is seriously wrong here. Seems like he was just trying to connect a conversation with a homeless vet. Not like he put 5th SF on his resume
That's where I am. Plus this guy was a Ranger and while not a Green Beret it's close enough for "government work" as they say. This is probably the most minor thing anyone in government or media has done.
He wasn't a Ranger. He graduated from Ranger School. Not the same thing.
That's where I am. Plus this guy was a Ranger and while not a Green Beret it's close enough for "government work" as they say. This is probably the most minor thing anyone in government or media has done.
That's where I am. Plus this guy was a Ranger and while not a Green Beret it's close enough for "government work" as they say. This is probably the most minor thing anyone in government or media has done.
No, he wasn't a Ranger.
Anyone (literally any MOS) that is approved by their Command from any Branch, can goto Ranger School. If they pass it, they are still not a Ranger.
This shows a Lack of Integrity, plain and simple.
Averageman
02-26-15, 05:59
No, he wasn't a Ranger.
Anyone (literally any MOS) that is approved by their Command from any Branch, can goto Ranger School. If they pass it, they are still not a Ranger.
This shows a Lack of Integrity, plain and simple.
And common sense.
At a time when your agency is being battered by cases of neglect and corruption, little white lies don't fly.
This speaks volumes about the Mans ability to think forward and keep his mind on his task.
And common sense.
At a time when your agency is being battered by cases of neglect and corruption, little white lies don't fly.
This speaks volumes about the Mans ability to think forward and keep his mind on his task.
Very true.
That's where I am. Plus this guy was a Ranger and while not a Green Beret it's close enough for "government work" as they say. This is probably the most minor thing anyone in government or media has done.
See paragraphs 2 and 3 of post 16 in this thread for a detailed description of where you went wrong.
See paragraphs 2 and 3 of post 16 in this thread for a detailed description of where you went wrong.
I understand that, but as said before, hardly the worst thing anyone has ever seen.
There's a lot of difference between completing Ranger school and 'being SF'....just because I completed Airborne school didn't make me Airborne....
Having said that, Ranger school isn't exactly a walk in the park, either...
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