View Full Version : TSA "Tards" Drop A Live .357 Mag Round Into My Luggage...
So it's been a tough month. My grandmother just passed away and I had to make last minute plans to fly home to Iowa for the funeral. Almost didn't even happen due to tight funds.
Given that I didn't even know for sure where I'd be staying when I got to Iowa, I checked my SIG handgun.
From Florida to Iowa...ZERO problems. Inform the ticket agent I have a firearm to declare, he verifies that I know the firearm needs to be unloaded and in a locked case, I tell him it is and I sign the declaration card. He declines my offer to visually inspect the handgun with a chamber flag in it and simply sends my bag through. It takes three minutes and I'm on my way.
On the return flight, seems Iowa TSA is more "vigilant." I go through the same process but was told to stand by until a TSA inspector confirms that everything is good to go. I wait about 5 minutes, TSA guy walks out of the back and gives me the "we're good" and I'm on my way.
And everything is fine, or so I thought.
I come home drop my bags at the front door, pull my still locked SIG and secure it. I start to throw laundry in the machine directly from my luggage when my wife tells me the dog grabbed a "battery" off the ground that fell out of my bag. I go running after the dog, because batteries are generally not healthy to eat and veterinarian bill for such things are expensive and I reach in my dogs mouth and get a slightly dented and chewed "live" .357 magnum round.
I completely freak. Bite a primer and giant firecracker. I immediately try to figure out how my dog got into my .357 stash because the only thing I flew with was 9mm. I all but accuse my wife of having been screwing around in my ammo locker but then remember the round fell out of my bag. Also it's got a Federal headstamp and I have never had Federal .357 ammo.
Also this is my "airline only - checked bag", I have to be very, very, very cautious to have a dedicated bag for this sort of thing which is never a range bag and never has anything in it except for exactly what I put in it and declare to TSA.
So process of elimination leads me to conclude that everyone with a declared firearm flying out of Iowa had their "check bag" personally inspected and obviously somebody had a box of .357 magnum ammo that spilled and it was probably on a shelf above my bag. There is probably a thread somewhere on the internet with some Iowa local complaining about how TSA "stole his ammo."
But one would think if there was a bag with loose rounds rolling around in it, that TSA would take the time to account for every round, it would either be a box of 25 or a box of 50 and it would say so on the box. After all if they are going to be diligent enough to go digging in your checked bag, they should be diligent enough to find all the loose ammo.
Or so one would think.
So I'm pretty pissed that TSA almost killed my dog with their negligence. I'm pretty pissed to think what would happen if I missed it and then decided to allocate that bag as a carry on for my next flight. Any chance something like "I absolutely have NO IDEA how a live round got in my carry on" would have any bearing on me being detained / arrested? Unlikely.
Sent a detailed complaint to Delta when they sent me a "Did you enjoy your Delta experience" survey. Included my phone number and stated that I would love to discuss the issue in greater detail. Of course I've heard nothing back. No "we're really sorry" email, no "what can we do to make this right" phone call.
So moral of the story, this is yet again one more useless person's job I have to do for them without any compensation. I have to spot check for TSA to verify they aren't dropping live ammo into my luggage. Would have never even thought to check for that if it hadn't happened to me. Used to be I just had to verify they didn't pilfer anything out of my bag.
So consider this a PSA regarding TSA.
diving dave
03-03-15, 00:37
I worked as a LEO at an international airport for about 5 years, and I'll be the first to admit some TSA agents are morons.. That being said, they dont allow loose ammo in any bag. It has to be in an original box or a magazine. Anything is possible I guess.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-03-15, 01:12
18-19 major airports have dropped TSA and gone to privatized security. Miami International is currently waiting to release their statement on whether they will drop TSA due to TSA's poor cust. service, long wait times, and high costs.
Congressman Mica created the TSA as we know it, and is now campaigning to dismantle due to ineffective security measures, "security theatre", and funding wastes.
People are beginning to wake up to the "security theatre" we have all been subject to starring in....
I worked as a LEO at an international airport for about 5 years, and I'll be the first to admit some TSA agents are morons.. That being said, they dont allow loose ammo in any bag. It has to be in an original box or a magazine. Anything is possible I guess.
I know they don't "allow" loose ammo. That doesn't mean somebody didn't put a well worn box of .357 in their bag that broke open and spilled everywhere when they "checked it." I guess my point is if they had simply left well enough alone. And if you aren't gonna leave it alone, then you have to account for every round that spilled loose because it sure as hell doesn't belong in my bag.
Besides putting my dog at risk, that could have gone bad a dozen different ways.
18-19 major airports have dropped TSA and gone to privatized security. Miami International is currently waiting to release their statement on whether they will drop TSA due to TSA's poor cust. service, long wait times, and high costs.
Congressman Mica created the TSA as we know it, and is now campaigning to dismantle due to ineffective security measures, "security theatre", and funding wastes.
People are beginning to wake up to the "security theatre" we have all been subject to starring in....
I'm certainly not a cheerleader for the TSA, but the one time I experienced non-TSA security (at SFO), it was a total clown show.
I know they don't "allow" loose ammo. That doesn't mean somebody didn't put a well worn box of .357 in their bag that broke open and spilled everywhere when they "checked it." I guess my point is if they had simply left well enough alone. And if you aren't gonna leave it alone, then you have to account for every round that spilled loose because it sure as hell doesn't belong in my bag.
Besides putting my dog at risk, that could have gone bad a dozen different ways.
So you got a TSA notice of inspection card in your checked bag?
So you got a TSA notice of inspection card in your checked bag?
No. I got a actual person who informed me that they'd let me know when my bag was checked. Then minutes later I got another actual person who came out and told me my bag was good to go. I'm assuming this was just a matter of looking in my bag and verifying my hard case was in fact locked. That and of course dropping a .357 round in my bag which I'm assuming was unintentional negligence.
Notice of inspections usually occur when the X ray sees something "peculiar" that wasn't declared and they open up your bag to identify the item in question. That's only happened maybe twice in my life and both times I was flying with an unusual (though legal) item.
TSA removed and then failed to return two compact boxes of fishing tackle and one of my son's hunting boots back into his bag. We had the TSA notice of inspection in the bag, but all the fishing tackle and the boot were missing. I contacted TSA and they claimed there was nothing they could do. Since we were flying out to a remote 2 week hunt, I did not have a chance to pursue it further at the time. By the time I got back it wasn't worth my effort to clear it up. Pissed me off to no end.
No. I got a actual person who informed me that they'd let me know when my bag was checked. Then minutes later I got another actual person who came out and told me my bag was good to go. I'm assuming this was just a matter of looking in my bag and verifying my hard case was in fact locked. That and of course dropping a .357 round in my bag which I'm assuming was unintentional negligence.
Notice of inspections usually occur when the X ray sees something "peculiar" that wasn't declared and they open up your bag to identify the item in question. That's only happened maybe twice in my life and both times I was flying with an unusual (though legal) item.
Both of these people were TSA agents?
wildcard600
03-03-15, 16:57
I'm certainly not a cheerleader for the TSA, but the one time I experienced non-TSA security (at SFO), it was a total clown show.
Have you ever seen what they pay "security" ? i'm surprised they were able to get clowns.
Both of these people were TSA agents?
First person was a Delta counter agent. Second person was a TSA agent.
Everytime I have had a TSA baggage inspection (either in my presence or after the fact) I found the "little we were cards". I was under the impression that it was put in their across the board.
In any case I have dealt with TSA enough to know that they are for the most part clowns, and I never assume that they didn't something right. They removed my parts containers during an inspection and then packed them like shit when they were done. Parts ended up spilling out inside the footlockers.
I fly in and out of the Quad City Airport in Moline a few times a year and their TSA is very gung ho when it comes to guns and security in general. I prefer O'hare and a 3 hour rental car drive over Moline.
First person was a Delta counter agent. Second person was a TSA agent.
Just one more question. Was the brand/type of .357 round your dog got a hold of the same as any of your .357 ammo, or was it completely different?
Just one more question. Was the brand/type of .357 round your dog got a hold of the same as any of your .357 ammo, or was it completely different?
I believe the op wrote that it was Federal and that he doesn't own any Federal .357 ammo.
I believe the op wrote that it was Federal and that he doesn't own any Federal .357 ammo.
My bad. Carry on...
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-03-15, 20:30
TSA pre-check has helped me keep my sanity. No more fondled or irradiated.
There was a TSA lady at Dayton who was HOPING that I didn't clear my chamber on a checked gun. She asked me and then ran the bag and said "If I find a round in the chamber, you're going to jail!!". Which very well may be true, but she seemed to take real glee on the possibility.
I keep the tag you sign for checked guns with me after I arrive. I take it and half tear it so I know its the old one. I just keep it as a kind of proof when I'm travelling that I brought a gun with me and I didn't buy it on the sly or something. I was checking in for my return in Dayton and I had the old half torn one in my bag, but outside the locked case. The TSA guy audible gasps, he tells me that if it had been in the case with the gun, he would have to had arrested me for false paperwork or something. I stifle my "are you an F-ing retard' look (which my wife says I have no way of stifling) and he decides to 'make an exception' since it wasn't in with the gun.
I've had far more good than bad interactions with TSA, but when its bad, its really bad and borderline scary.
SeriousStudent
03-03-15, 20:54
I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother, I hope her last days were peaceful and without pain.
I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother, I hope her last days were peaceful and without pain.
Thanks. They were as peaceful as anyone can hope. We were in a catch 22, she needed constant care from hospice for personal needs but when you are in hospice you really aren't supposed to seek medical attention and if you seek medical attention you put your hospice care at risk.
Basically there comes a point and time where they try and check you out by simply letting "nature take it's course." When she became unresponsive she obviously couldn't eat or drink and IV fluids were considered "medical attention." Knowing that her final wishes were that if she ended up in something like an "unresponsive" state she didn't wish for it to be prolonged.
So even though there was the chance that something as simple as IV fluids could have helped bring her out of the "unresponsive" state we couldn't risk that happening if it meant she would lose her hospice care and then simply die of "neglect."
Long story short she seems to have made it four days without water. Sadly she was a fighter. There simply wasn't a obvious "good" decision to be made so I'm kinda glad I wasn't really in the decision making loop. But she did get 94 years which is much more than many people get. She was mostly lucid until a couple years ago which even fewer people get. In the grand scheme of things she had a good life and a good time, or at least until my grandfather passed away. So I'm trying to focus on the bigger, better picture.
And of course I'm trying to distract myself with things like the incompetence of TSA. And really if my dog didn't immediately grab the round and start chewing on it, I probably wouldn't have even bothered to start this thread.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-04-15, 03:22
I used to fly with at least a pistol if not a pistol and an AR15 from San Diego to Denver and back on a bi-annual basis. I found Denver to be very good with the handling of your firearms. TSA even allows you to come to the screening room and observe them as they screen. You may then follow your bag to the luggage check-in point so you can be sure it at least makes it to the next point. The whole process only takes about 10-15 minutes and seems very professional.
San Diego, on the other hand, was a nightmare. From the clerks to TSA, everyone seems to have this look of imminent death on their faces to due firearm presence. They take your bag into the back and leave you waiting for a good hour, even on a non-busy day. You can only hope during that time that Pedro "Face Tattoo" Rodriguez who walked your bags to the back isn't a new owner of a shiny Sig P220.
Steyr, sorry to hear about your grandmother passing.
Although, there are likely some competent TSA Agents, my limited interactions have left me unimpressed.
Unless I am traveling across the United States, then I am driving.
Airport security is an oxymoron.
I fly in and out of the Quad City Airport in Moline a few times a year and their TSA is very gung ho when it comes to guns and security in general. I prefer O'hare and a 3 hour rental car drive over Moline.
The one time I had the misfortune of a.) having personal effects tested for explosive residue and b.) having that test return positive was in Moline. Not a real pleasant experience even with official documentation and credentials explaining a positive test result.
Is it just me or does it seem like this might be some kind of a "message" for you? I would imagine it irritates some staff that they have to screw around with your inconvenient "rights" with a declared firearm.
Like you said.... if you attempted to fly again not knowing a live round was in your bag... and the live round discovered in the next checkpoint... that would have opened a can of legal whoop-ass on you.
It sure seems like a "message" to me. What employee could possibly "accidentally" drop a live round in your bag? That is an ineptitude beyond explanation.
No, I don't think so. This was a message.
Is it just me or does it seem like this might be some kind of a "message" for you? I would imagine it irritates some staff that they have to screw around with your inconvenient "rights" with a declared firearm.
Like you said.... if you attempted to fly again not knowing a live round was in your bag... and the live round discovered in the next checkpoint... that would have opened a can of legal whoop-ass on you.
It sure seems like a "message" to me. What employee could possibly "accidentally" drop a live round in your bag? That is an ineptitude beyond explanation.
No, I don't think so. This was a message.
So you're saying TSA is in collusion with the FAA to entrap people? :confused:
I am saying someone that feels inconvenienced or disgruntled at work is looking to try and ruin someone's day by dumping a live round in a bag.
These two examples come to mind:
There was a TSA lady at Dayton who was HOPING that I didn't clear my chamber on a checked gun. She asked me and then ran the bag and said "If I find a round in the chamber, you're going to jail!!". Which very well may be true, but she seemed to take real glee on the possibility.
The TSA guy audible gasps, he tells me that if it had been in the case with the gun, he would have to had arrested me for false paperwork or something.
Someone with an anti-gun agenda with no scruples? Seen that many times. Smells like that to me.
Hot Holster
03-04-15, 08:52
Those satisfaction surveys are conducted by outside research companies that are contracted by respective firms. Your complaint most likely was not forwarded to Delta, and most likely will not. You need to contact Delta directly through their contact info on the website, and I would also send a letter or email to TSA.
How can you complain about that crack unit of Commandos?....... :jester:
http://youtu.be/IHfiMoJUDVQ
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-04-15, 12:39
I used to fly with at least a pistol if not a pistol and an AR15 from San Diego to Denver and back on a bi-annual basis. I found Denver to be very good with the handling of your firearms. TSA even allows you to come to the screening room and observe them as they screen. You may then follow your bag to the luggage check-in point so you can be sure it at least makes it to the next point. The whole process only takes about 10-15 minutes and seems very professional.
San Diego, on the other hand, was a nightmare. From the clerks to TSA, everyone seems to have this look of imminent death on their faces to due firearm presence. They take your bag into the back and leave you waiting for a good hour, even on a non-busy day. You can only hope during that time that Pedro "Face Tattoo" Rodriguez who walked your bags to the back isn't a new owner of a shiny Sig P220.
+1 on Denver. Pretty good on guns, with all the hunting in the region I think they get practice.
I tested positive for explosives once. TSA was in a TIZZY, long story short, the EOD guys showed up, saw the code was TNT and told the TSA to chill. Something about false positives from plasticizers in head set cases.
At DAY at least, a lot that I got to know were ex-MIL. So you have them and then you have the union jobs program people. Quite a dichotomy.
Those satisfaction surveys are conducted by outside research companies that are contracted by respective firms. Your complaint most likely was not forwarded to Delta, and most likely will not. You need to contact Delta directly through their contact info on the website, and I would also send a letter or email to TSA.
I actually did that as well. Copy/ pasted the same comments to the "complaint" section on the Delta webpage. Still haven't heard anything.
Is it just me or does it seem like this might be some kind of a "message" for you? I would imagine it irritates some staff that they have to screw around with your inconvenient "rights" with a declared firearm.
Like you said.... if you attempted to fly again not knowing a live round was in your bag... and the live round discovered in the next checkpoint... that would have opened a can of legal whoop-ass on you.
It sure seems like a "message" to me. What employee could possibly "accidentally" drop a live round in your bag? That is an ineptitude beyond explanation.
No, I don't think so. This was a message.
1. I think you are crediting TSA with way too much sophistication.
2. Never attribute to connivance what may be explained by incompetence.
Crediting TSA with sophistication? Not sure how you are getting that.
This is either incompetence of one individual, which I deem is unlikely, or more likely one individual being a prick. Simple as that.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-04-15, 14:11
Somewhere, Barney Fife is wondering where his bullet went.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-04-15, 14:52
Is it just me or does it seem like this might be some kind of a "message" for you? I would imagine it irritates some staff that they have to screw around with your inconvenient "rights" with a declared firearm.
Like you said.... if you attempted to fly again not knowing a live round was in your bag... and the live round discovered in the next checkpoint... that would have opened a can of legal whoop-ass on you.
It sure seems like a "message" to me. What employee could possibly "accidentally" drop a live round in your bag? That is an ineptitude beyond explanation.
No, I don't think so. This was a message.
I hope you are doing some hilarious Bill Oreilly impression here and not being serious....
Cincinnatus
03-04-15, 16:38
How can you complain about that crack unit of Commandos?....... :jester:
http://youtu.be/IHfiMoJUDVQ
Hilarious!!!
Crediting TSA with sophistication? Not sure how you are getting that.
This is either incompetence of one individual, which I deem is unlikely, or more likely one individual being a prick. Simple as that.
I'm just not sure they are creative enough for a "prick" move like that. A 6th grader maybe, but not sure if TSA is that clever. I think they are just generally incompetent and lazy, spilled someone's ammo and didn't take the effort to account for it all. I don't think they came to work with .357 rounds to plant in people's luggage.
Ned Christiansen
03-04-15, 19:39
A few bad apples for sure, as will be found in any group. I've had enough truck with TSA to form the opinion that overall, the bad apples are indeed few. They may for some reason be unevenly distributed and in higher concentrations at certain locations (sounds like Denver has a low concentration or none at all). Woe to him whose home port or frequent stop happens to be one of those places. In my 50 or so encounters with them they have been very good to me. Of course I do all I can to be good to them first. Coming from the west coast just a few days ago they had their own little room, first time I've seen their station configured this way. The poor guy was struggling like hell with a ridiculous bundle of rattan floormats or something, more than a dozen of them rolled up into a bundle about 30" in diameter and 6' long. I don't know if it was some kind of commercial shipment or a passenger's, but they came to him with such crappily inadequate binding that whoever it belonged to should not have been surprised to receive them damaged or partially missing. This guy went out of his way to compensate for this when putting it all back together, it being in everyone's best interest I suppose to not have them come unrolled. He was apologetic to the next person, who was flying with a firearm.
I don't doubt the horror stories but my personal experienced have been 100% positive.
SeriousStudent
03-04-15, 20:01
1. I think you are crediting TSA with way too much sophistication.
2. Never attribute to connivance what may be explained by incompetence.
Hanlon's Razor, also known as "Why your boss does the things he does..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
.....
From Florida to Iowa...ZERO problems. Inform the ticket agent I have a firearm to declare, he verifies that I know the firearm needs to be unloaded and in a locked case, I tell him it is and I sign the declaration card. He declines my offer to visually inspect the handgun with a chamber flag in it and simply sends my bag through. It takes three minutes and I'm on my way......
This is something I have never once experienced.
I check a handgun on every flight I take, except for when I'll be back home in 24 hours or less.
Out of CO, TX, CA, NV, FL, IN, etc etc not once has my bagged and self not been escorted to TSA for an inspection of the locked case and verification that the requirements are made. Not once.
In fact, I don't think a ticket agent in the US even has the authority to make any discretionary decisions on any matter whatsoever as it regards to traveling with a firearm. Their entire role in the matter involves simply contacting an escort to show you to the TSA inspection room or pointing you to the TSA inspection area, dependent only on the proximity of the inspection area to the ticketing counter.
I'm certainly not down playing the significance of a random round ending up in your bag, but I'd be FAR FAR more concerned about a ticket agent just tossing bags with potentially improperly stored firearms and live ammunitions on the conveyor belt without inspection based on a ticket agents, what? Gut feel???
I don't like the cancer machines at the airports, so I request the free massage instead. I'm still pissed that they won't let the TSA chicks give me my public rubdown, but that's another issue...
So the dude pats me down and then checks my shoes which were in the little plastic bin after going through the machine. Then he takes the little patch thingy and rubs it on his gloves and puts it in the machine. It starts flashing "EXPLOSIVES" in bright red letters.
"Step this way please..." I got another free massage in the back room from another dude, and they asked me some questions. When they asked if I had been shooting recently I answered in the affirmative. "Yesterday". They asked, "Were you wearing these shoes?" "Yep." I answered.
Well apparently that explained it. GSR on the shoes. They sent me on my way without an issue, but I can't say I wasn't a little worried. Now I have at least one pair of shoes that never get worn to the range.
Condolences on your Grandmother, Steyr. May she rest in peace.
This is something I have never once experienced.
I check a handgun on every flight I take, except for when I'll be back home in 24 hours or less.
Out of CO, TX, CA, NV, FL, IN, etc etc not once has my bagged and self not been escorted to TSA for an inspection of the locked case and verification that the requirements are made. Not once.
In fact, I don't think a ticket agent in the US even has the authority to make any discretionary decisions on any matter whatsoever as it regards to traveling with a firearm. Their entire role in the matter involves simply contacting an escort to show you to the TSA inspection room or pointing you to the TSA inspection area, dependent only on the proximity of the inspection area to the ticketing counter.
I'm certainly not down playing the significance of a random round ending up in your bag, but I'd be FAR FAR more concerned about a ticket agent just tossing bags with potentially improperly stored firearms and live ammunitions on the conveyor belt without inspection based on a ticket agents, what? Gut feel???
He did watch me lock the case, he just didn't have me remove the handgun so he could personally verify it was unloaded. I guess I've been spoiled flying out of Ft. Lauderdale, they have never wanted to personally handle the firearm. I've had a few that had me open the case to take a peek and then called it good and asked me to lock it.
Alaska is a piece of cake. The counter help NEVER want to see the guns and just direct you to the TSA dude that checks guns. You're allowed to stand there and watch. The only time I have trouble is when they do the spot checks on my bags without guns.
Oddly enough, I carried a live 30-06 round from Anchorage to Seattle, Seattle back to Anchorage, Anchorage to Palm Springs, Palm Springs to Anchorage and then finally got caught in Anchorage going to Vegas a year later. .... this was in my damn carry on backpack. It definitely was a test on how inept the whole screening thing is. When I got caught with it, I simply had to wait until they summoned an airport police officer who took it and walked away. Glad I didn't go to Washington D.C. with that thing.
Did you hear about my last Anchorage experience? If not, I will tell you sometime.
Alaska is a piece of cake. The counter help NEVER want to see the guns and just direct you to the TSA dude that checks guns. You're allowed to stand there and watch. The only time I have trouble is when they do the spot checks on my bags without guns.
Oddly enough, I carried a live 30-06 round from Anchorage to Seattle, Seattle back to Anchorage, Anchorage to Palm Springs, Palm Springs to Anchorage and then finally got caught in Anchorage going to Vegas a year later. .... this was in my damn carry on backpack. It definitely was a test on how inept the whole screening thing is. When I got caught with it, I simply had to wait until they summoned an airport police officer who took it and walked away. Glad I didn't go to Washington D.C. with that thing.
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