View Full Version : Help reloading 223 some questions
Ok, so I am finally getting set up to reload 223 for my colt 6920. I have searched but can not seem to get a straight answer, do I need to crimp all bullets, canulered or not? If I am crimping, do I need to trim too? I have 200 77gr sierra bthp with the canulare, and am going to be ordering some 77gr nosler from midway, not sure wether to get the bullets with or without the canulare. I am not looking to make match ammo, just defense ammo and out to 400-500 yds at the most. I am not worried about sub moa and tight groups. I have a bolt gun for that. Powders, am I better off with rl15, cfe223 or something different in these heavier bullets?
Thanks in advance.
Anyone who tells you you absolutely DO or DO NOT need to crimp is full of shit. It all depends on your set up and equipment. A crimp is not necessary if you have good neck tension.
In my case, adding the crimp to non-cannalured OTMs improved accuracy greatly. But that's just my set up and process.
Ok, thanks for answering I think I would feel more comfortable with the crimp, glad to know that I can crimp non cannalured bullets too.
rcoodyar15
03-03-15, 15:27
I really like CFE223 but it is hard to find load data for it. I use RL15 and n140 and varget too.
I don't crimp but I only reload for my precision AR. I use it up about as fast as I load it. I don't stockpile that ammo.
Ok, thanks for answering I think I would feel more comfortable with the crimp, glad to know that I can crimp non cannalured bullets too.
I run a light LEE Factory Crimp on everything. If you pull one of my OTMs, you won't see a crease in the jacket from mashing the bullet.
texasgunhand
03-03-15, 16:42
I run a light LEE Factory Crimp on everything. If you pull one of my OTMs, you won't see a crease in the jacket from mashing the bullet.
Ditto,,, just a light crimp to hold it in place,just to easy with the lee factory crimp. I have one for every thing iam loading.
My crimps with the LFC die are so light, it feels like it's not even crimping sometimes. It's THAT light of a crimp. You don't want to deform the bullet.
Do I need to trim since I'm going to crimp?
The load is going to be rl15 with 77gr comp noslers and 77gr Sierra hpbt with the cannualare
Do I need to trim since I'm going to crimp?
I would. I usually trim my brass twice; once initially and another halfway through the it's life.
The LEE Factory crimp die is marketed as NOT being trim dependent. That's how I came to use it, because when I was getting started, I didn't trim brass. Just loaded it twice and left it at the range. The LEE has a collet which closes on the neck perpendicularly. So it doesn't care if you have length variations.
With a taper crimp... a longer neck with give you more crimp. So you could get inconsistencies in neck tension and accuracy.
I ordered the Redding crimp die. I will have to see if it's trim dependent I guess
I tried a Redding taper crimp die and found it to not work as well as the LFC die. It might work well for flat base bullet where you need to bell the case mouth a bit (as in pistol loads), but for BT bullets, the LFC die is the best I've found IF it is set up correctly.
Well damn that stinks to hear. I always liked Redding for rifle dies too. Guess I'll try it and see how she works
What didn't you like about it?
Agree with OnyxZ on the crimp...
al
I trim everything and don't crimp anything. Have never had an issue with not using a crimp.
What didn't you like about it?
It didn't offer the same accuracy as the LFC die. If it would have, I would have kept rolling with it. I'd rather use the taper crimp since there would be less chance of deforming the bullet, but with a light enough crimp on the LFC die, you won't deform the bullet as long as you are loading brass of the same thickness.
Any taper crimp die is trim length dependent. All it is is a tapered hole in a die body that the cartridge is pressed into. Say you have 2 different trim lengths. The longer one will be pressed further up into the tapered hole, squeezing the neck more and adding more of a crimp. Will the difference impact things that much? I'm not sure, I never got that far. I tried my normal XBR load back to back with a taper crimp, LFC, and no crimp. The LFC shot the most consistent, so I stuck with it.
I trim on the first reloading and again about half life. I also use the Lee FCD for a very slight crimp on 77 SMKs.
Another tip for you, once you reach the life span of your brass I mark them with a black sharpey so they are easier to sort . Generally crimping is a good idea but again like Mark said it all depends on what your trying to do
Another tip for you, once you reach the life span of your brass I mark them with a black sharpey so they are easier to sort.
That's what I do. I put two stripes around the body of the case when I get a primer that seats too easy. It gets scrapped after that next firing.
That's exactly why I started that also. I notices that with Win small rifle primers did not like brass toward the bottom end of its life span (they seat looser than others) I try to stay with CCI now that the market is flooded
Yep. Primer dimensions definitely vary.
I no longer crimp .223 or .308 for anything I currently own.
I do load several dummy rounds [no primer, no powder] when changing components or sizer die or for a new rifle - especially with heavier/longer bullets. I shoot a lot of Nosler 77s.
The dummy loads are hard chambered several times (full drop the bolt w/ dummys feeding from a magazine). This is to prove the rifle & load combination has no set-back issues; COL stays within ~.002" either way after at least three back to back chamberings.
I used to crimp, but when I had one particular AR that would drive some 69-77 grain bullets back into the case - all mannor of crimps (tappered & LFC, light & heavy) did not help. It was designated as a 55/64 grain rifle.
My current chambers all seem to feed smoothly. Multiple chambering of the same (dummy) load, generally end with the COL ~.001" to .002" longer.
IMO, neck tension is important, but no more so than how the chamber feeds rounds. I can't see where crimping does any good unless you are driving the case mouth really deep into a cannalure.
Those are good thoughts on the chamber. There are other considerations as well. My Varget loads crunch when I seat the bullet. I let uncrimped cartridges sit for a few days, checking to see if coal changed. On a few, they had grown a thou or so. That is why I make a slight crimp.
Thanks for all this info! The Redding die I ordered is a taper crimp die only. I know the Lee has been suggested but my order was already shipped.
Tac is the best powder for 77s. I use the Lee factory crimp on all AR loads.
waveslayer
03-05-15, 22:21
Don't rule out CFE223 for 77's. I get a .33 " groupings using that powder as well as Varget with 75 HPBT and XBR does well too.
I only crimp my loads for range time and precision no crimping
FloridaWoodsman
03-05-15, 23:34
I'm another Lee Factory Crimp user. Just a slight crimp leaves the bullet nice and tight. It also reduces any "bump" as the cartridge enters the chamber.
Tac is the best powder for 77s. I use the Lee factory crimp on all AR loads.
Try some XBR or H322. You might be surprised.
I would like to try some various powders and their is a scheels and cabelas in the second closest town to me, they rarely seem to have much powder in stock. The little merch/trading post in town seems to do better with powder. Going to see if they can special order me some. I have 4lbs of rl15 on the way though
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