View Full Version : Why I hand prime
1. More control
2. Consistency
3. I'm ugly enough... http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/01/chain-fire-what-happens-when-a-primer-column-detonates/
Wow. I can't imagine what would trigger this. I've mashed hundreds of primers in my 550b and never had an ignition. I no longer use that system on the press because it drove me nuts.
i have heard about it in the past, supposedly it has been triggered by many different things, including the plastic follower that activates the audible alarm (if dropped on top of the primers) or sometimes a piece of debris (loose anvile maybe) between two primers when the fill tube is dumped
I always felt odd about dropping that tube full of 100 primers into the feed tube. But it was never an issue.
And here I thought I was weird for wearing ear and eye pro when I was learning to reload. I still use eye pro but have since relaxed the ears.
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While I'm not doubting that this can happen, the link above has the smell of a cheap plug to an eyewear sponsor.
Wonder if Dillon will change their primer setup due to this...
Wonder if Dillon will change their primer setup due to this...
I wouldn't expect so. The steel tube on the oustide of the aluminum primer tube is a shield against injury, and it's not a design flaw. Usually some outside factor that triggers this. Some guy in the Blue Press said he had this happen when a small primer 45 case got picked up at the range... although the seating is a few inches from the primer tube so I don't know the specifics...
I hand prime my rifle cases, load pistol on a RCBS Pro2000 with APS. A fellow on another forum talked about how a primer tube on his progressive detonated in his hand, messing his hand up but not permanently.
I wouldn't expect so. The steel tube on the oustide of the aluminum primer tube is a shield against injury, and it's not a design flaw. Usually some outside factor that triggers this. Some guy in the Blue Press said he had this happen when a small primer 45 case got picked up at the range... although the seating is a few inches from the primer tube so I don't know the specifics...
Didn't know that, thanks for the insight. This thread is making me rethink my imminent purchase of a Dillon. Not sure it's worth the risk.
Didn't know that, thanks for the insight. This thread is making me rethink my imminent purchase of a Dillon. Not sure it's worth the risk.
Not sure why you'd be concerned. There are many many imbeciles out there running Dillons without incident. You'd reduce much more risk by selling your car or truck.... i.e. there's more risk in driving in public than running a Dillon.
The issue I have with the link is there's no real understanding of why this occurred. Was it a failure of the equipment? Was it a failure of procedure? Was there a contaminant in the tube, or was it a faulty primer? We don't know the cause of the failure. There is no opportunity to correct this problem other than... buy a different system? Now I'm suspect. It begins to look more like an endorsement for a product.
Would this have been possible if he wasn't using a tube feeder? Maybe not, but if this were common, if the tube were as dangerous as implied, many of us would be missing fingers and eyes right now. We're not.
buy the dillon, there is no reason for concern, you cannot control random chance
buy a $50 RCBS Universal hand primer, prime your brass ahead of time, ultimately it will result in LESS time spent loading overall
once you get the feel for using a hand primer you can literally do it blind, I will do it while watching movies with the Mrs. then load on the dillon the following day
I and just about everyone else who owns a dillon have primed on it, I personally went through about only 2500 rounds (9mm) before I said "there has to be a better way" and tried hand priming.
the primer stack chain detonation thing is rare, mostly because primers can only really be detonated one way, by crushing the compound between the cup and anvil
so if you do want to prime with your dillon, just inspect the primers ahead of time, do any of the primers have a mis-alligned or high anvil?
while that would be something that would cause me to pitch that particular primer anyways I think it would be the biggest culprit behind these chain detonations, especially if it is at the bottom of the stack and 99 other primers get dropped on top of it...
TLDR: Dillon progressives are great, buy one
Disclaimer: I'm not associated w/ Dillon in anyway
The issue I have with the link is there's no real understanding of why this occurred. Was it a failure of the equipment? Was it a failure of procedure? Was there a contaminant in the tube, or was it a faulty primer? We don't know the cause of the failure. There is no opportunity to correct this problem other than... buy a different system? Now I'm suspect. It begins to look more like an endorsement for a product.
Would this have been possible if he wasn't using a tube feeder? Maybe not, but if this were common, if the tube were as dangerous as implied, many of us would be missing fingers and eyes right now. We're not.
That's exactly where I'm coming from. I'm not going to look too deep into this or let it concern me much. I've deprimed live primers & crushed many more, yet not one detonation. Yeah, accidents can happen so one should always prepare accordingly.
http://visionplusmag.fourplusmedia.com/?p=3418
Primer dets can be caused by accumulation of primer dust ignited by static electricity. Have you noticed that packaging has changed? Years ago 100 primers were placed in a smaller container than is done now. Thus, they are packaged less densely today. I suspect that safety is the reason. Once I observed a guy reloading .44 cases with a Lee Loader sold then for about $10. His priming method was placing a primer on top of the primer pocket and then hitting it with a claw hammer.
Primer dets can be caused by accumulation of primer dust ignited by static electricity.
I'm not calling BS or anything, but I've never seen primer compound accumulate anywhere on any of my tools or presses.
Have you noticed that packaging has changed? Years ago 100 primers were placed in a smaller container than is done now. Thus, they are packaged less densely today. I suspect that safety is the reason.
I had this discussion with the lady at the counter at Dillon Precision. The Remington primers are packaged so small I thought she'd shorted me. She claimed the packaging depended on any prior instances in shipping. Apparently Federal must have had a shipment go boom. :sarcastic:
Like you, I too have never seen primer dust accumulation. I should have given my source, which was George Nonte writing 50 years ago about the subject, and it could be that he never saw any either. About primers,..,I never figured out how a guy who was reloading could set off a batch during the process. Every sensible reloader knows not to store loose primers in a jar or can. I suspect that some of the reported accidents were caused by such careless handling.
Apparently Federal must have had a shipment go boom. :sarcastic:
No shit! I've always thought their packaging was a bit ridiculous.
No shit! I've always thought their packaging was a bit ridiculous.
I hate their card board tabs on the bottom. Worst packaging ever.
I hate their card board tabs on the bottom. Worst packaging ever.
**** yes! Between some constant crushing issues I had early on in my reloading "career" and their horrible, oversized, un-user friendly packaging, I no longer purchase Federal primers. There are just too many good, available primers out there to have to deal with their mess.
I've stuck with them on the Large Rifle Match because that's our .308 load... but that's it.
I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds on my Dillon RL550B and only had one primer go off. Luckily I was wearing eye protection.
I believe that a small brass shaving or piece of junk was on the anvil that seats the primer and it detonated after it was seated and I gave it a little extra push to ensure it was seated. That would be my fault, not Dillon's.
I started using a RCBS hand primer for rifle cartridges, because I get a better sense of what is happening when seating the primer. I don't use the hand primer on handgun cartridges and I have loaded a boat load of them.
The reason I started wearing safety glasses, is that the pair I wear have a 1.5 power bifocal reader in the bottom of the lens and it helps to see small detail. I guess there are advantages to getting older.
The cat did not care too much for the noise when a Large Rifle Magnum primer went off and l had to bribe her to not tell the wife something detonated in the basement.
How did Dillon get involved in this? Press type was not mentioned and Dillon uses a heavy duty steel primer feed tube to contain and channel an explosion. The tube pictured looks aluminum to me, almost looks like the Dillon dump tube but how you would "accidentally" set primers off in that I don't know.
Ned Christiansen
03-15-15, 10:31
If one goes off as a primer is being taken from the tube by the sliding primer shuttle or whatever it's called, I immediately picture a scenario where the shuttle is adjusted right on the edge, where it barely comes back far enough to pick up a primer, but it does.... until do doesn't.... one gets in there sideways and the impatient operator starts to manhandle it.
Never had one go off in tens and tens and tens of thousands.
I don't reload .223 any more but I do .300 Whisper. When I'm using brass of uncertain provenance I hand prime, so when I get one that was a 5.56 fired in a .223 chamber and the primer pocket is loose (have seem them expanded up to .005 over), I can more readily feel it and reject that case.
How did Dillon get involved in this?
I responded with Post #2 in mind. Dillon reloading equipment is top shelf in my opinion.
"Why I hand prime"
Because when it takes this long to do it the old fashion way you take more time and better aim before pulling the trigger on your perfect reloaded ammo.
Below my vintage 1973 RCBS one at a time priming tool with lots of feel. (and speed kills) ;)
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/RCBSPrimer-b_zps7e084f16.jpg
Sounds like it was a crappy nod or endorsement for the aps strips and safety glasses.
MikeDawg46L
03-17-15, 09:53
I load lots of LC 556 brass, which anyone that has ever used LC knows the primer pockets are mostly off center. I will have my Hornady single stage shave a small hair off of a casing and get in the punch. On the next round, I can see the indention of the shaving on the primer. Never a kaboom. Ever.
I can't see having some grit in the tube causing a detonation.
Tapatalk'd
I load lots of LC 556 brass, which anyone that has ever used LC knows the primer pockets are mostly off center. I will have my Hornady single stage shave a small hair off of a casing and get in the punch. On the next round, I can see the indention of the shaving on the primer. Never a kaboom. Ever.
I can't see having some grit in the tube causing a detonation.
In my experience that shaving is off of the primer cup due to a poorly removed crimp. I've not noticed that the primer pocket is off center on any brass. Some have flash holes way off center. Fiochi, for example.
MikeDawg46L
03-17-15, 10:40
In my experience that shaving is off of the primer cup due to a poorly removed crimp. I've not noticed that the primer pocket is off center on any brass. Some have flash holes way off center. Fiochi, for example.
That may be the case, as I use the RCBS reamer instead of swaging. It still seems like I have to manipulate some of the brass (by rotating in the shell holder) to get the primers to start. I've always assumed this is due to primer pockets being slightly off center but could be due to the reaming.
You trying to say I'm a bad reamer?
Tapatalk'd
No. I used to get this all the time. I get it almost never when hand priming, but on the 550, I had those shavings quite often.
Keep an old tooth brush handy & flip 'em out of the way. No problem on the next loading.
Yep. I could always feel when a primer cup got shaved on my press. I'd brush out any metal shavings before continuing. Oddly enough, those banged up primers still always went bang.
MikeDawg46L
03-17-15, 13:54
It took about 1000 cases primed before I really got the feel of a cup being shaved. Now I know before the primer even starts to seat.
One thing I do like about the Hornady is that the entire primer seating mechanism comes out fully with the ram up. Just yank it out, tap the shaving out if it's lodged, and keep rolling. I inagine the other presses like the RCBS are similar in construction.
Tapatalk'd
It took about 1000 cases primed before I really got the feel of a cup being shaved. Now I know before the primer even starts to seat.
Yep. That's a good thing. Same with decapping, etc. You can feel when stuff is not right and stop before you force anything.
My 3000 9mm cases arrived. !00% clean, undamaged WCC brass with same date(12) and crimped primers. When resizing and decapping, I noticed that the crimped in primers offered no extra resistance. Good. Then I discovered that the cases could be primed without reaming out the crimp, which was obviously very slight. Priming both reamed and not reamed cases had the same feel. This brass is an excellent value: $143 delivered.
I recommend Lee's lemon sqeezer priming tool--the one with square primer trays. Wow! I'll be busy loading this ammo on my 50 year old Lachmiller press. Yep, I'm still pulling the handle a bunch of times for one round. If the Lachmiller breaks, I'll dig out a Lyman Spartan and keep pulling. I just remembered that I need to cast 3000 bullets.
My 3000 9mm cases arrived. !00% clean, undamaged WCC brass with same date(12) and crimped primers. When resizing and decapping, I noticed that the crimped in primers offered no extra resistance. Good. Then I discovered that the cases could be primed without reaming out the crimp, which was obviously very slight. Priming both reamed and not reamed cases had the same feel. This brass is an excellent value: $143 delivered.
Where did you get them?
The issue I have with the link is there's no real understanding of why this occurred. Was it a failure of the equipment? Was it a failure of procedure? Was there a contaminant in the tube, or was it a faulty primer?
Or.... did he get primer tube full of stuck primers and tried to ram them out, which Dillon tells you to specifically never do. There is no indication he was even operating a press when this happened... and yes it does read like an advert for glasses as well followed by a company press in competition with Blue.
Onyx, I got the 9mm brass from BrassBombers.com in Knightsen, Ca.
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