View Full Version : Ferguson Fake Out
Lott on the DOJ report via the NY Post:
Ferguson fake out justice departments bogus report
Addressing the nation from Selma, Ala., on Saturday, President Obama said that while racism may be “no longer endemic,” as it was 50 years ago, his Justice Department’s report on Ferguson shows that the “nation’s racial history still casts its long shadow upon us.”
Sorry: The Justice report doesn’t prove disparate treatment, let alone discrimination.
In fact, it looks more like something ginned up to distract from the embarrassing fact that Justice (in another report released the same day) wound up fully validating the findings of the Ferguson grand jury.
Racism is serious, and those engaging in it should be shamed — but we should have real evidence before accusing others of it. And every one of the Justice report’s main claims of evidence of discrimination falls short.
Starting with the primary numerical claim. The report notes on Page 4: “Ferguson’s law-enforcement practices overwhelmingly impact African-Americans.
“Data collected by the Ferguson Police Department from 2012 to 2014 shows that African-Americans account for 85 percent of vehicle stops, 90 percent of citations, and 93 percent of arrests made by FPD officers, despite comprising only 67 percent of Ferguson’s population.”
Those statistics don’t prove racism, because blacks don’t commit traffic offenses at the same rate as other population groups.
The Bureau of Justice Statistics’ 2011 Police-Public Contact Survey indicates that, nationwide, blacks were 31 percent more likely than whites to be pulled over for a traffic stop.
Ferguson is a black-majority town. If its blacks were pulled over at the same rate as blacks nationally, they’d account for 87.5 percent of traffic stops.
In other words, the numbers actually suggest that Ferguson police may be slightly less likely to pull over black drivers than are their national counterparts. They certainly don’t show that Ferguson is a hotbed of racism.
Critics may assert that that “31 percent more likely” figure simply shows that racism is endemic to police forces nationwide.
Hmm: The survey also reveals that men are 42 percent more likely than women to be pulled over for traffic stops. Should we conclude that police are biased against men, or that men drive more recklessly?
Cont:
http://nypost.com/2015/03/09/ferguson-fake-out-justice-departments-bogus-report/
Starting with the primary numerical claim. The report notes on Page 4: “Ferguson’s law-enforcement practices overwhelmingly impact African-Americans.
With a town that is at least 70% black ( cant remember actual number), how you can you not ??
With a town that is at least 70% black ( cant remember actual number), how you can you not ??
Little facts like that are of no interest to those with an agenda. Like the fact gun ownership went up while murder rates dropped in past decades in the states, etc, etc.
That "don't confuse us with the facts" approach.
Perhaps, the white police in Ferguson should simply start a search for LEO jobs elsewhere.
Ultimately, management could fill all LEO spots with an all black police force and see how well that works out.
Maybe, then some of the complaints of racism would stop, but I'd bet not...as I've heard (crazy as it may sound) blacks referring to other blacks as racists when they get arrested by a black LEO...
Perhaps, the white police in Ferguson should simply start a search for LEO jobs elsewhere.
Ultimately, management could fill all LEO spots with an all black police force and see how well that works out.
Maybe, then some of the complaints of racism would stop, but I'd bet not...as I've heard (crazy as it may sound) blacks referring to other blacks as racists when they get arrested by a black LEO...
Not called racists per se but "Uncle Toms" and the like is most common if the LEO is black. Or so my black LE friends tell me as in "this Uncle Tom is still taking your sorry ass to jail"
Or, Ferguson could simply do without a police force and see how that works out for them...
Or, Ferguson could simply do without a police force and see how that works out for them...
I have thought of that myself well before this event. If the majority of the population feels the po po does them no good, etc, etc, then they should vote to opt out. That also means, when someone is kicking your door in to rob you, etc, there will be no response to your 911 call. Those who bitch the most about the po po often can't find that phone fast enough to dial 911 when something happens to them. "Sorry, your town voted to opt out of the 911 emergency system. You're on your own, and good luck"
Never happen in our utopia, with liability and all that, but it would allow police to focus on those locations and populations who fully understand the Thin Blue Line is not a metaphor.
That does not mean they are perfect, or that they don't mess up, or that they should be able to run ruff shot over Const. Rights, or they should not be judged by 12 when they break the law, but the rule of law is the only thing that keeps a society stable and functional.
"but the rule of law is the only thing that keeps a society stable and functional."
I'm so sorry. That rule of law thing is much too difficult for so many to grasp, until as you pointed out so clearly that when something happens to "them" - bam, 911 is dialed on warp speed...freaking hypocrites!
sevenhelmet
03-11-15, 14:17
I have thought of that myself well before this event. If the majority of the population feels the po po does them no good, etc, etc, then they should vote to opt out. That also means, when someone is kicking your door in to rob you, etc, there will be no response to your 911 call. Those who bitch the most about the po po often can't find that phone fast enough to dial 911 when something happens to them. "Sorry, your town voted to opt out of the 911 emergency system. You're on your own, and good luck"
Never happen in our utopia, with liability and all that, but it would allow police to focus on those locations and populations who fully understand the Thin Blue Line is not a metaphor.
That does not mean they are perfect, or that they don't mess up, or that they should be able to run ruff shot over Const. Rights, or they should not be judged by 12 when they break the law, but the rule of law is the only thing that keeps a society stable and functional.
I respectfully disagree. The job of the police is to provide a law-enforcement presence for ALL citizens of the nation-state, uniting them under a common law, regardless of how one segment of the population might react. Allowing citizens to "opt out" would mean the nation-state effectively ceased to exist, as there is no longer any impetus for all citizens to live by the same laws. Put another way, rule of law is only rule of law because it is not optional. What about all the taxpayers who didn't vote to "opt out" with the rest of their town? You're basically taking things from one extreme to the other, causing further divide among the population. It could likely start a civil war.
Fergusen represents a horrendous failure of leadership on all levels up to POTUS. Their lives have become so comfortable, that people often forget we are all one country, especially when politicians make a living by being deliberately divisive, and the media makes a living telling us why we should be scared of each other. They forget that our government was set up to:
-Establish Justice
-Provide for the common defense
-Promote (not ensure) the general welfare
Sound familiar? Just because Fergusen, the DOJ, and the White House are populated by a bunch of a-holes who love to inflame situations and disregard the Constitution doesn't make the basic theory of government disappear.
Averageman
03-11-15, 14:30
Maybe an independent fact check would be in order?
Not only are these guys being fired or leaving I would imagine it is unlikely that another department would be willing to take them on. Once you have the scarlet letter R attached to your name in any sort of public service you're through. Just stick a fork in it, no more career.
If you are willing to just let Holders numbers ride, then you're saying no one had any oversight on that department either at the local or state level. I just don't think in this day and age that's possible.
I think when the Justice Department didn't get the results they wanted from the G.J. the Justice Department investigated the shooting themselves. When that didn't work they looked in to the records and when that didn't work they brought in someone to adjust the numbers statistically.
Holder didn't get what he wanted simply because what he wanted wasn't there, when that failed he was out for blood.
sevenhelmet
03-11-15, 14:32
^This sounds like a good assessment. Political goals were created. When the situation didn't pan out, facts were twisted and obscured. Sounds like another day at the office for the Obama administration.
Or, Ferguson could simply do without a police force and see how that works out for them...
I realize this was tongue in cheek, but simply put, they don't have that option. Not even theoretically. As American citizens on American soil, they have the obligation to comply with the rule of law that governs ALL Americans. If they want to do away with local ordinances and fines, they can do that. If they want to do away with local traffic citations or greatly reduce the fines, they can do that. They cannot do away with law enforcement who have a sworn duty to enforce the law, particularly mala in se crimes such as robbery, rape, murder, etc.
If they don't like that, they can go to the library and research what country they want to move to and GTFO.
I respectfully disagree. The job of the police is to provide a law-enforcement presence for ALL citizens of the nation-state, uniting them under a common law, regardless of how one segment of the population might react. Allowing citizens to "opt out" would mean the nation-state effectively ceased to exist, as there is no longer any impetus for all citizens to live by the same laws. Put another way, rule of law is only rule of law because it is not optional. What about all the taxpayers who didn't vote to "opt out" with the rest of their town? You're basically taking things from one extreme to the other, causing further divide among the population. It could likely start a civil war.
Fergusen represents a horrendous failure of leadership on all levels up to POTUS. Their lives have become so comfortable, that people often forget we are all one country, especially when politicians make a living by being deliberately divisive, and the media makes a living telling us why we should be scared of each other. They forget that our government was set up to:
-Establish Justice
-Provide for the common defense
-Promote (not ensure) the general welfare
Sound familiar? Just because Fergusen, the DOJ, and the White House are populated by a bunch of a-holes who love to inflame situations and disregard the Constitution doesn't make the basic theory of government disappear.
You are of course totally correct, though I think were de evolving into small nation states regardless. What I said was partly tongue in cheek and part serious, with the latter half knowing it would not work with our current model.
The whole do without police or opt out begs the question. Is there a Constitutional or even local legal requirement to have police? I know of many towns too small to have a local polce force and as such the people rely on the county sheriff. Is that town breaking the law by not having a police force? We know for a fact that there is absolutely no requirement for police to protect anyone or anything. They aren't legally required to catch a criminal. If there were they would be being sued and or punished hourly for failure of do their job. If there is no law demanding LEO do their job is there a law mandating their existence or is it merely a social expectation?
NOT IMPLYING THAT LEO ARE ASSHOLES SITTING AROUND DOING NOTHING AND GETTING PAID FOR IT IN ANY WAY.
sevenhelmet
03-11-15, 16:50
You are of course totally correct, though I think were de evolving into small nation states regardless. What I said was partly tongue in cheek and part serious, with the latter half knowing it would not work with our current model.
Fair enough. I probably took your comment a little more seriously than you intended it, but I thought it was an important point to make in light of all the recent media hate for police in general.
@ Taz: Is there a legal requirement to have police? In a word, yes. I outlined the reasoning in my post above, quoted by WillBrink. Basically, there is no rule of law without enforcement. What concerns me is the growing perception that police ARE optional, or even worse, not desired. Referencing every failed nation state ever, it doesn't take long for order and public safety to break down when laws are no longer being enforced.
Perhaps the City of Ferguson government should disband it's police force and contract with St. Louis County Sheriff's Department for service. When they work details in high call areas to reduce the crime rate, you may see the same numbers of people being ticketed and arrested. The naysayers would have to approach St. Louis County government to complain and the county may be better prepared to deal with it.
Any way you slice it, something needs to be done in Ferguson to stem tax payer flight.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-11-15, 17:42
Simple solution. Stop racist policing in Ferguson. Only Caucasian criminals should be cited or arrested. Problem solved, crime eliminated, and no more Mike Browns.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-11-15, 21:30
What I love is that it is racist for cities to use cops to raise funds thru fees and tickets. Really, that is supposed to be a new thing?
The other thing about the 'disparate' rate for blacks and traffic stops is that they aren't factoring in age. I bet Ferguson follows most inner suburbs that are 'changing' in that there is a skewing in teh race-age profile. Older people can't afford to move out so you end with more old white people and younger black people. Younger people get more tickets, that's pretty standard.
Never mind that the "hands-up/don't-shoot" is a complete lie.
LowSpeed_HighDrag,
Mike Brown was a strong arm robber, but for some reason few news folk mention that particular info.
My guess, his last time to do such wasn't his first...
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