View Full Version : Sayoc / Headhunter Blades "Rat"
dmaxfireman
03-12-15, 13:41
Has anybody purchased this knife or trained with one? I'm trying to get some info on if before considering dropping $500 on it.
http://www.warriorswaytx.com/store/43/rat-training-package/
I currently have an ESEE 3mil that I purchased with the idea of carrying as a defensive blade. I am finding more and more I am not carrying it because I do not like the design of the handle and feel that the wide blade is more of a utility blade than a defensive blade.
Any other suggestions on low profile fixed blades between 3.5-4" would be appreciated as well.
No personal experience, but I know that Kyle Defoor and the guys from Sayoc recommend them.
Look at http://www.t4research.com or http://www.bladerigs.com for blade packages with off the shelf or lightly modified blades with kydex sheaths designed for EDC.
Inventory doesn't always get updated so I would shoot one or both of them an email and let them know what you're specifically looking for.
Bladerigs used to make the sheaths for a lot of the Sayoc contract blades, including the RAT.
One of my favorite EDC knives is a modded Bladerigs mini-pentagon with sheath and T4research just made me a sheath for a 15 year old, made in Pakistan, Kerambit that I modded. Both good people and very knowledgable about blades and carry systems.
dmaxfireman
04-02-15, 10:32
Bringing this back to the top, still on the search for more information.
I plan on picking up one of these.
http://jwknives.tictail.com/product/magni-reinwrap-handle
Adrenaline_6
04-02-15, 16:03
No info on steel type on their website....weird.
SeriousStudent
04-02-15, 21:46
I plan on picking up one of these.
http://jwknives.tictail.com/product/magni-reinwrap-handle
I'm a big fan of Joe Watson's work, for what it's worth. Solid dude, and very good blades for the price.
dmaxfireman
04-03-15, 08:01
I'm a big fan of Joe Watson's work, for what it's worth. Solid dude, and very good blades for the price.
Thanks very much, I will check them out.
Has anybody purchased this knife or trained with one? I'm trying to get some info on if before considering dropping $500 on it.
http://www.warriorswaytx.com/store/43/rat-training-package/
I currently have an ESEE 3mil that I purchased with the idea of carrying as a defensive blade. I am finding more and more I am not carrying it because I do not like the design of the handle and feel that the wide blade is more of a utility blade than a defensive blade.
Any other suggestions on low profile fixed blades between 3.5-4" would be appreciated as well.
I have owned one for over a year now (back when you had to get KD to vouch for you just to get to buy one). Great knife and the sheath system is fantastic for carrying in just about any type of clothing (swim shorts, over a instructor belt, whatever).
C4
For those that don't have $500 for a knife, the Spyderco Reverse designed by "SouthNarc" and Michael Janich will be out soon. We will be stocking them.
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=914
C4
dmaxfireman
04-03-15, 10:51
I know this is subjective but is it worth the $500? I WILL be buying a defensive fixed blade would I be better off going with a $250ish Joe Watson option, or is the Headhunter really worth double the price. I try to maintain a buy once cry once methodology, and while the price is not a deal breaker, $500 is not a small drop in the bucket. The most attractive feature of the Rat to me is the grip design. It looks like it will be a faster more positive draw under stress and be less likely to slide or move once deployed.
I have owned one for over a year now (back when you had to get KD to vouch for you just to get to buy one). Great knife and the sheath system is fantastic for carrying in just about any type of clothing (swim shorts, over a instructor belt, whatever).
C4
I know this is subjective but is it worth the $500? I WILL be buying a defensive fixed blade would I be better off going with a $250ish Joe Watson option, or is the Headhunter really worth double the price. I try to maintain a buy once cry once methodology, and while the price is not a deal breaker, $500 is not a small drop in the bucket. The most attractive feature of the Rat to me is the grip design. It looks like it will be a faster more positive draw under stress and be less likely to slide or move once deployed.
The headhunter comes with a very nice trainer. Joe makes trainers so to get a proper price comparison you'd need to see how much he charges for his.
I know this is subjective but is it worth the $500? I WILL be buying a defensive fixed blade would I be better off going with a $250ish Joe Watson option, or is the Headhunter really worth double the price. I try to maintain a buy once cry once methodology, and while the price is not a deal breaker, $500 is not a small drop in the bucket. The most attractive feature of the Rat to me is the grip design. It looks like it will be a faster more positive draw under stress and be less likely to slide or move once deployed.
At the time, I hadn't seen anything this well thought out (all around) so I had no problem paying it. I will admit though that I have a knife fetish and $500 isn't a lot of money to me. :)
C4
I know this is subjective but is it worth the $500? I WILL be buying a defensive fixed blade would I be better off going with a $250ish Joe Watson option, or is the Headhunter really worth double the price. I try to maintain a buy once cry once methodology, and while the price is not a deal breaker, $500 is not a small drop in the bucket. The most attractive feature of the Rat to me is the grip design. It looks like it will be a faster more positive draw under stress and be less likely to slide or move once deployed.
I would say that it balances out because you're getting the sheath and the trainer. Joe Watson knives are great, but once you factor in the trainer with the live blade, you're pushing $500 anyways.
dmaxfireman
04-03-15, 12:49
At the time, I hadn't seen anything this well thought out (all around) so I had no problem paying it. I will admit though that I have a knife fetish and $500 isn't a lot of money to me. :)
C4
You say "at the time", are there any better alternatives hat are similar you would suggest? You are definitely leaning me towards the Rat so far. I would much rather grit my teeth through a larger expense and buy the best now and not have to sell it down the road in lieu of something better suited for the task.
I would say that it balances out because you're getting the sheath and the trainer. Joe Watson knives are great, but once you factor in the trainer with the live blade, you're pushing $500 anyways.
Good point
You say "at the time", are there any better alternatives hat are similar you would suggest? You are definitely leaning me towards the Rat so far. I would much rather grit my teeth through a larger expense and buy the best now and not have to sell it down the road in lieu of something better suited for the task.
Good point
If I may stay in my "lane," I am not a fixed blade/knife fighting guru (much more knowledgeable folks out there than I). So there could be some options out there that I am unaware of, but I haven't seen any yet (to date) that I like more than my RAT.
C4
dmaxfireman
04-03-15, 12:57
If I may stay in my "lane," I am not a fixed blade/knife fighting guru (much more knowledgeable folks out there than I). So there could be some options out there that I am unaware of, but I haven't seen any yet (to date) that I like more than my RAT.
C4
That's good enough for me. Thank you for your candor, it is very appreciated.
That's good enough for me. Thank you for your candor, it is very appreciated.
As most on here will validate, unbridled "candor" isn't my problem. ;)
C4
I know this is subjective but is it worth the $500? I WILL be buying a defensive fixed blade would I be better off going with a $250ish Joe Watson option, or is the Headhunter really worth double the price. I try to maintain a buy once cry once methodology, and while the price is not a deal breaker, $500 is not a small drop in the bucket. The most attractive feature of the Rat to me is the grip design. It looks like it will be a faster more positive draw under stress and be less likely to slide or move once deployed.
Objectively, no, it's not worth it. You can find a ABS journeyman bladesmith to make a custom work of art to your specifications, differentially heat treated, from high end steel, for less money.
The people who buy this knife are those that buy into the Sayoc mystique or those that like to drop names of trainers they took a class from.
You don't have to spend $500 to get a good self defense knife and a trainer.
(I make knives on a 2x72 grinder and a paint can forge I built myself for less than Rat knife.)
I've been carrying mine for the last two days. Shitty sheath. ETA: this is in reference to the Spyderco Reverse Fixed.
Chris
I've been carrying mine for the last two days. Shitty sheath. ETA: this is in reference to the Spyderco Reverse Fixed.
Chris
Look at River City. My Gryphon M10 came with one of their sheaths and it's been great! Daily carry on and off duty for at least a year now.
SeriousStudent
04-03-15, 21:39
I've been carrying mine for the last two days. Shitty sheath. ETA: this is in reference to the Spyderco Reverse Fixed.
Chris
If I may be so bold?
I have a pair of Kydex knife sheaths from Dark Star Gear, and found them to be perfect for what I needed them to do. The price and delivery time was also agreeable.
I'm going to snag a Spyderco Reverse from Grant, and will be sending it off to Dark Star for a sheath.
My daughter needs a new knife to protect my granddaughter. :cool:
If I may be so bold?
I have a pair of Kydex knife sheaths from Dark Star Gear, and found them to be perfect for what I needed them to do. The price and delivery time was also agreeable.
I'm going to snag a Spyderco Reverse from Grant, and will be sending it off to Dark Star for a sheath.
My daughter needs a new knife to protect my granddaughter. :cool:
Thanks to you and el cid.
I contacted a Kydex folder local to me. Will see what he can do. Will post results.
Blade concept and shape are awesome. Steel is a little lame, but as defensive only blade not sure that matters.
Chris
SeriousStudent
04-04-15, 00:08
I think the steel will do pretty well. Spyderco did a Mule sprint run with it, and they sold old fairly rapidly. The steel discussions over on Bladeforums were mostly complimentary also.
And as you mentioned, as a defensive blade it will likely handle bone and leather just fine. In the testing I did with some old leather jackets and roast, CPM-S30V seemed to do the best. But I think CTS BD1 will perform satisfactorily also.
Objectively, no, it's not worth it. You can find a ABS journeyman bladesmith to make a custom work of art to your specifications, differentially heat treated, from high end steel, for less money.
The people who buy this knife are those that buy into the Sayoc mystique or those that like to drop names of trainers they took a class from.
You don't have to spend $500 to get a good self defense knife and a trainer.
(I make knives on a 2x72 grinder and a paint can forge I built myself for less than Rat knife.)
That's all fine and good, but you still need a good sheath if you want to carry any blade as a weapon.
Any of the guys who designed the Bloodshark, Rat, etc. will all tell you that they'd rather have a $10 Mora in a well designed sheath than a $300 custom in a typical factory sheath.
dmaxfireman
04-14-15, 10:07
RAT training package ordered, will follow up when it gets here.
FYI - the Rat training package is on sale for $300!!
http://www.warriorswaytx.com/store/43/rat-training-package/
dmaxfireman
05-23-15, 12:23
Thanks, I know, I missed out on the sale when I bought mine.
dmaxfireman
05-23-15, 12:24
Maybe I will buy another now.
Ordered mine last night and just came here to post that.
I'm friends with one of the guys that trains with the creator, and kept telling him I could get a decked out Glock for $500 and was getting close to buying the cheapest best alternative, a gryphon, but the price drop made me jump
I've carried the same benchmade afck for twenty years, but know I should carry a fixed blade
Ipsilateral_7
05-24-15, 14:05
FYI - the Rat training package is on sale for $300!!
http://www.warriorswaytx.com/store/43/rat-training-package/
Thanks for heads up, I was debating this or just getting a Ban Tang custom clinch pick, this made this decision easier
Jumped on the sale as well, thanks for the heads up. Replacement sheaths are $75, trainers typically cost about the same. The way I see it you're getting that knife for $150.
I know this is an older thread but I was curious if anyone has tried the Benchmade Greg Thompson SOCP? It looks very similar in disign to the RAT knife but much less expensive. If you look at Benchmade's YouTube channel there are three or four good videos about it. I saw a pakage on Amazon that was the blade, sheath, and training blade for around $130. What I'm not sure about is if it's a new product or not. Would love to hear about someone's experience with it.
The RAT looks like a kitchen knife and would probably do well there...
Ipsilateral_7
06-24-15, 16:18
Just got email, still looks like it will be another week or two before the ship the rat, in the mean time I also snapped a TAG clinch-pick & trainer to try out.
I know this is an older thread but I was curious if anyone has tried the Benchmade Greg Thompson SOCP? It looks very similar in disign to the RAT knife but much less expensive. If you look at Benchmade's YouTube channel there are three or four good videos about it. I saw a pakage on Amazon that was the blade, sheath, and training blade for around $130. What I'm not sure about is if it's a new product or not. Would love to hear about someone's experience with it.
It's not a new product and it's pretty different than the Rat.
The SOCP was designed by Greg when he was doing some SFOD-D instruction for an assaulter to employ an edged weapon in a CQB situation. As a minimalist blade that takes up little room on kit, and supplements a guy with a few guns, it's not bad.
The Benchmade version is the second version, as Spartan made it initially, but there were some disagreements over things and Greg took his design to a bigger company to hopefully sell more of them.
On MOLLE gear, it's one of the best options available. For concealed carry on the waistline, I don't much like it. I have one and tried it for a while, but leave it on a plate carrier mostly, now.
Blades like the Bloodshark or Rat are really in a class of their own. It you look up the article I wrote on the Bloodshark, you'll see why some of these elements (also seen in part on the Rat) make it a highly useful blade for violent applications.
mrosamilia
06-24-15, 21:32
Half Face blades. Look them up on Instagram.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
It's not a new product and it's pretty different than the Rat.
The SOCP was designed by Greg when he was doing some SFOD-D instruction for an assaulter to employ an edged weapon in a CQB situation. As a minimalist blade that takes up little room on kit, and supplements a guy with a few guns, it's not bad.
The Benchmade version is the second version, as Spartan made it initially, but there were some disagreements over things and Greg took his design to a bigger company to hopefully sell more of them.
On MOLLE gear, it's one of the best options available. For concealed carry on the waistline, I don't much like it. I have one and tried it for a while, but leave it on a plate carrier mostly, now.
Blades like the Bloodshark or Rat are really in a class of their own. It you look up the article I wrote on the Bloodshark, you'll see why some of these elements (also seen in part on the Rat) make it a highly useful blade for violent applications.
Having never seen a Bloodshark in person, but seen this, color me skeptical on it. Bottom line, if it can't keep your hand from slipping forward during a thrust into something hard (such a bone for example), it is not a well thought out design. And that's Ian Wendt in the video trying it out. Read up a little on him if that name does not ring a bell.
Having said that, the SOCP looks like it could be good, though I don't know of many jurisdiction where carrying it would be considered kosher by the powers that be.
Having never seen a Bloodshark in person, but seen this, color me skeptical on it. Bottom line, if it can't keep your hand from slipping forward during a thrust into something hard (such a bone for example), it is not a well thought out design. And that's Ian Wendt in the video trying it out. Read up a little on him if that name does not ring a bell.
Having said that, the SOCP looks like it could be good, though I don't know of many jurisdiction where carrying it would be considered kosher by the powers that be.
A dude hitting a tire with a trainer in forward grip doesn't change how a live blade performs on soft tissue in reverse grip.
If you want a knife with a large guard, there are dozens of them available.
These are some of the knives I still have around, I couldn't find my SOCP right now.
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/IMG_0908_zps2vqtta6e.jpg (http://s720.photobucket.com/user/synergy303/media/IMG_0908_zps2vqtta6e.jpg.html)
L-R: Clinch Pick and trainer, CS Mini Culoden, SOG Mini Pentagon, Gerber Guardian (tracker dan reground), Tracker Dan BloodShark and trainer, a Colonel, Spyderco waved Delica.
I've tried them all out to an extent, and I don't see any issues with the grip on the Bloodshark. I used to be the ones making the sheathes for them, and neither Dan nor I got any feedback from guys who actually used them that grip slippage was an issue. The Bloodshark (amongst others) is a blade that actually has been used as intended, and the opportunity for feedback has always been there. Some of the early gen BloodSharks had a rhino liner type coating for a grip, and those have been downrange for years now.
The Rat is newer, but has been sent downrange with plenty of guys, too.
If there are complaints about the handle from guys who've gotten them bloody, then that's news to me.
A forward grip straight blade is going to be hard to hold onto whenever you ram it into a solid object. That's one of the reasons why the handle is designed to be thumb capped in reverse grip and doesn't have any sharp edges like many "tactical" knives have to break glass or whatever else they are advertised for. The sheath and design sets it up for a locked wrist draw into reverse grip from the belt line, yet that's curiously never shown in the video Ian appears in where he is critical of the grip purchase. Even a horizontal carry access into forward grip isn't going to be done with a locked wrist... so I don't know why the focus is on forward grip with his critique.
If slipping on a forward grip thrust is of such concern, then I'd look at options like the Punchbadger http://trackerdan.tictail.com/product/punchbadger or the Colonel http://www.colonelblades.com/. Both will give you a lot more range with a locked wrist than a straight blade, are point focused, and won't let you ride the blade under pretty much any circumstance.
I carry the Colonel, the BloodShark, and the Clinch Pick at different times. Sometimes a method of dress doesn't support the one, but it does the other. They all work well for the manor they were intended to be used.
Anyone ever get any answer from them as to which steel is used in the Rat Knife?
It arrived today. Much smaller than I pictured but very well balanced and very secure in the hand.
Some size comparison pics follow. My Gryphon feels quite large after handling the Rat.
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/IMG_6610_zpsaad90aa7.jpg
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/IMG_6611_zps7440c3bb.jpg
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/IMG_6612_zps9d552a2c.jpg
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/IMG_6613_zpsc0a213da.jpg
Ipsilateral_7
07-23-15, 18:17
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/23/7077f98282e125a834662a0eda0f9c1f.jpg
Rat vs a TAD clinch pick
Anyone ever get any answer from them as to which steel is used in the Rat Knife?
In response to my email inquiry, they told me it was AUS-8 steel.
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