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ubet
03-15-15, 20:15
I just started reloading 223, have reloaded 1000s of 308 and 45 acp so figured reloading 223 would be nothing. I got rcbs small base dies, imperial resizing wax like I've always used for rifle brass and went to deprime and resize, for some reason this is where in having trouble. When I run the case up (single stage press) almost every case is just a huge fight. Dies are adjusted to just tap the shell holder at full extension, cases are lubed, cleaned, cleaned or tried to clean the dies nothing seems to help. I'm getting crushed shoulders, and it's a huge headache/chore to just do a small number. Any ideas on what else I can try? All of it is once fired through my rifle, a bunch of lake city, some ta, Remington and some I don't know with just letters on the case head, those are the worst and I've been sorting them off. All of them were from freedom munitions that I had gotten and ran through my colt. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

kwg020
03-15-15, 20:25
Is your brass annealed? Annealed brass resizes easier than un-annealed.

kwg

ubet
03-15-15, 20:26
No it's not. I have never done it.

T2C
03-15-15, 21:43
You want just enough case lube to keep the cases from sticking. You do not want any lube on the case neck or shoulder as lube will cause dents. Some people use dry lube inside the case mouth to make the return stroke on the reloading press handle easier.

Some brass springs back when resizing and requires a second pass through the resizing die.

LoboTBL
03-15-15, 23:20
Get a set of Hornady full length dies and sell those small base dies to someone who thinks they want them. I've heard many people say they are necessary if reloading for an AR pattern rifle but I have not found it to be true. I reload .223 Rem and .300 Blk, as well as several other rifle and pistol calibers and don't use SBD's for either. (Hmmmm SBD, thinking of something that stinks)

ubet
03-16-15, 01:02
It's not the return stroke, it's the insertion stroke that's the problem. Is the Dillon carbide sizer die worth the cash?

markm
03-16-15, 08:09
1. You need a case guage. You can get away with touching the plate on pistol, but NOT on rifle. You need to adjust the die correctly with a guage. and,

2. Get DILLON CASE LUBE. Imperial sizing wax is a good product and has it's place. But DCL will make the biggest difference.

You might try to swab out the Imperial as much as possible with a qtip.... since DCL and imperial are different. And I can't tell any difference when my brass is annealed. And for 223, I never anneal.

Onyx Z
03-16-15, 08:26
If you are getting crushed shoulders, you are using way too much case lube.

+1 on the Dillon Case Lube

masan
03-16-15, 09:11
1. You need a case guage. You can get away with touching the plate on pistol, but NOT on rifle. You need to adjust the die correctly with a guage.

Spot on.

And make your life 100% easier, get yourself http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/reloading-dies/replacement-parts-amp-upgrades/skip-s-die-shim-kit-7-8-14--prod33197.aspx and never worry about trying to adjust the locking ring on your sizing die again.

rcoodyar15
03-16-15, 13:26
Spot on.

And make your life 100% easier, get yourself http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/reloading-dies/replacement-parts-amp-upgrades/skip-s-die-shim-kit-7-8-14--prod33197.aspx and never worry about trying to adjust the locking ring on your sizing die again.

I don't know what dies you are using but I use a Forster full length sizing die. It is critical that you get the expander ball located correctly in the die. I had the same problem until I read the directions and adjusted my expander ball correctly. It would crush the neck down. I use imperial wax for the case and dry lube for the neck. Just have a brush with dry lube below it attached to the loading bench by my reloader

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/301/301357.jpg

anachronism
03-16-15, 13:59
Pics would be a big help of course. If you use Dillon case lube, and do the baggie application, you can simply wipe the case lube off the case shoulders and neck before sizing. Just a quick wipe will do it. You only want to make certain you dont have the shoulder wet with lube. Enough lube will remain on the shoulder and neck to make everything work OK. When done, DO NOT forget to check you case length and trim the cases if needed. 223 cases seem to grow every time you look away from them.

texasgunhand
03-16-15, 16:22
Markm, when you speak of setting the dies up correctly,what do you mean? I just followd the directions on my .223 F/L dies(lee) and my sized cases fit in a wilson case gauge, slide in and out on their own easly etc..is there a link or something that explains what you want done when setting up your sizeing dies correctly?? Maybe that would help us noobs get a better grasp of things..

T2C
03-16-15, 16:43
texasgunhand,

I reload mostly 30-06, 8MM Mauser, 7.62x54R and .308 Winchester, but I do load .223 occasionally. I like to set up the dies to set the shoulder (datum line) back 0.002" for a bolt action rifle and 0.004" for general use including a semi-automatic rifle.

You are going to wind up wiping case lube off of rifle brass at some point during the sizing process and you don't necessarily save a lot of time with spray on case lube. I have used a lot of Dillon case lube over the years and recommend it over some of the other liquid lubes I have used. I recently switched to Hornady Unique case lube and prefer it over anything else.

texasgunhand
03-16-15, 18:20
How do you measure the set back? Iam only loading for auto right now,when i start loading 6mm ill start neck sizing since its a bolt gun. It would help if i could find some brass for it.
Do you measure from the neck to the shoulder??? I just set up the die like the directions said.

bigedp51
03-16-15, 18:42
texasgunhand

I'm 65 with chronologically gifted eyesight and stopped using Wilson type case gauges and switched to the Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge for a very good reason. A fired case may not fit inside a Wilson type gauge so you do not know its fired headspace length. My Hornady gauge is fitted to a digital readout vernier caliper and the fired length and resized length is very easy to see.

Below a fired unresized case in the Hornady gauge.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/headspacegauge005_zps20685e73.jpg

Below the same case after full length resizing and .003 shoulder bump or shoulder setback. (minimum full length resizing)

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/headspacegauge004_zps4465b7bc.jpg

We live in a plus and minus manufacturing world and not all chambers and reloading dies are the same diameter and headspace length and your dies will need to be adjusted for the "correct" shoulder bump or shoulder set back. I have a Lee full length .223 die that when setup per the dies instructions with the die making hard contact with the shell holder and the press reaching cam over will make the case .009 shorter than the GO gauge and .012 shorter than the chamber. This amount of full length resizing is excessive and will cause case head seperations when all that is needed is .003 to .006 shoulder bump for the AR15 rifle.

Below is a exaggerated drawing of full length resizing and what happens inside the die, pay attention to the red and green dotted lines and the words shoulder setback.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/shouldersetback_zpsrefii5sv.jpg

The green dotted line above is how much the die can push the shoulder back from its fired length, and for minimum sizing and "LONGER" case life this should be kept to the minimum. On a bolt action rifle .001 to .002 shoulder setback is normal, on a semi-auto .003 to .006 is more than enough. What you need to remember is the die is setup to push the shoulder of the case back so the cartridge will fit in "any" chamber and you want to adjust the die to "your' chamber for "LONGER" case life.

I do things a little different than most reloaders, once I have the die setup in the press to produce minimum neck runout I do not like to adjust the die up and down for the proper shoulder bump. Below on the right is a standard RCBS shell holder and on the left is a Redding competition shell holder, these shell holders come in different lengths or deck heights and rather than adjust the die up and down I simply change shell holders to control the shoulder bump. These Redding shell holders come in .002 increments from +.002 to +.010 with five shell holders in a set.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/shellholders_zps0f9bb695.jpg

And I now use my Wilson case gauges as paper weights and pen holders.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/penholder_zps4213e7d3.jpg

The best part about the Hornady case gauge is you only need to buy one gauge and not a separate gauge for each caliber.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/gauge002_zpsd2792ffa.jpg

texasgunhand
03-16-15, 21:31
Thanks,,that helps alot. I will look into getting one of the hornady headspace gauges.

sinister
03-16-15, 21:48
Once again, a drop-in gage will tell you if a case meets minimum-maximum length and shoulder-bumping (headspacing).

It cannot possibly tell you if the external case diameter has been sized to feed and fit into a tight chamber.

bigedp51
03-17-15, 07:03
Once again, a drop-in gage will tell you if a case meets minimum-maximum length and shoulder-bumping (headspacing).

It cannot possibly tell you if the external case diameter has been sized to feed and fit into a tight chamber.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but a "drop in gauge" will not tell you the fired length of your cases if it will not drop into the gauge. And drop in gauges are commercial SAAMI headspacing standards and not military standards. To set your proper shoulder bump and extend case life the Hornady gauge works much better. I have been reloading for over 46 years and still use my Wilson case gauges "BUT" the digital display on my vernier calipers is much easier to see and more accurate.

Below a Colt 5.56 Field Gauge, 1.4736.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/headspacegauge006_zps3cdabdf4.jpg

Below the same Field gauge in my "calibrated" Hornady gauge. (and its no longer just a comparator gauge)

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/headspacegauge_zps14d3b71f.jpg

Again I used drop in gauges for years but the Hornady gauge setup above is much easier to read and they don't make drop in gauges that give braille readings.
(senior citizen humor) ;)

markm
03-17-15, 08:14
Since I'm trimming every time (for .223) I almost never use the gauge since the brass will all end up approximately the same length anyway, and my sizing die is already set up. I definitely believe in using the gauge to set the die up for sure.

For .308, I use the gauge to tell me which brass is needing to be trimmed. The directions for my .308 gauge indicate that you set the brass neck up on a flat surface and place the gauge over the case to see if your OAL is within min/max.

rcoodyar15
03-17-15, 09:41
You might try polishing your expander ball or getting rid of the expander ball and using a bushing or collet type neck sizing die

For my AR's I full length resize everything.

For my bolts I only neck size. I use the lee collet neck sizing die. No donuts! About every 4 or 5 reloadings I full length resize.

I have thought about using the forster bump bushing die http://www.forsterproducts.com/store.asp?pid=36223 but you would still have the donuts to deal with.

I use a giraud case trimmer. It makes it so easy that trimming is just part of my reloading process.

and I use an ultrasonic case cleaner. Cleans them inside and out sparkling.

sinister
03-17-15, 10:32
Please don't take this the wrong way, but a "drop in gauge" will not tell you the fired length of your cases if it will not drop into the gauge. And drop in gauges are commercial SAAMI headspacing standards and not military standards. To set your proper shoulder bump and extend case life the Hornady gauge works much better.

Absolutely. I use the Hornady (former Stoney Point) comparator on my calipers to verify.

I don't think anyone should try to drop a fired case into a drop-in gage. If it fits it won't necessarily feed in any rifle I own.

I shoot my loads in multiple weapons (both 7.62 and 5.56). I clean, anneal, small-base size, de-lube, inspect for stretching and separation, and trim all cases. I use a drop-in gage at random intervals just to verify something hasn't gone wonky and out-of-adjustment (or how much things vary when switching between brands or lots of brass).

I am as confident in my loads as someone who buys factory boxed ammo. My ammo shoots well in all my weapons, interchangeably regardless if it's a .mil spec bunny or coyote blaster or a National Match rifle.

markm
03-17-15, 10:41
I use the lee collet neck sizing die. No donuts!

Amen! I run these for .308, 7mm Mag, 300WM, etc. For .223, I do too much volume to maintain a mechanical die... I have a 223 collet die, but just run a sizer and expander.

bigedp51
03-17-15, 14:14
I just changed over my RCBS .223/5.56 dies to use a Forster spindle and expander unit to reduce neck runout and load more concentric ammo. Below in the photo on the left is a standard RCBS expander unit and on the right is a Forster unit. On the Forster unit there is a thick rubber washer below the spindle lock nut that allows the spindle to float and self center in the neck of the case. And when the neck of the case is still inside the neck of the die the expander enters the case neck. This way the expander is always centered with the center axis of the die and the expander does not pull the necks off center.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMG_2141_zps77852ff6.jpg

The die lock nut is from a Lee die and has a rubber o-ring located under the lock ring and also alows the die to float and self center in the press with the shell holder. I have bushing dies, Lee collet dies, etc. and this setup produces the least neck runout of any of the dies I own.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMG_2140_zpsea657d9e.jpg

Both the spindle expander lock nut and the die lock ring are tightened finger tight. And I use Redding competition shell holders so my press cams over and the die does not have to be touched or adjusted for shoulder bump. My vintage 1973 Rockchucker press "might" be getting a little loose and press cam over eliminates the press from the sizing equation.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/o-ring001_zps094cec91.jpg

Forster Full Length Sizing Die Cutaway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgIfzsH8N6k

More neck runout is induced during reloading than for any other reason because the expander button and spindle are locked down off center with the die. And this pulls the case necks off center inducing neck runout.

rcoodyar15
03-17-15, 14:33
I just changed over my RCBS .223/5.56 dies to use a Forster spindle and expander unit to reduce neck runout and load more concentric ammo. Below in the photo on the left is a standard RCBS expander unit and on the right is a Forster unit. On the Forster unit there is a thick rubber washer below the spindle lock nut that allows the spindle to float and self center in the neck of the case. And when the neck of the case is still inside the neck of the die the expander enters the case neck. This way the expander is always centered with the center axis of the die and the expander does not pull the necks off center.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMG_2141_zps77852ff6.jpg

The die lock nut is from a Lee die and has a rubber o-ring located under the lock ring and also alows the die to float and self center in the press with the shell holder. I have bushing dies, Lee collet dies, etc. and this setup produces the least neck runout of any of the dies I own.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMG_2140_zpsea657d9e.jpg

Both the spindle expander lock nut and the die lock ring are tightened finger tight. And I use Redding competition shell holders so my press cams over and the die does not have to be touched or adjusted for shoulder bump. My vintage 1973 Rockchucker press "might" be getting a little loose and press cam over eliminates the press from the sizing equation.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/o-ring001_zps094cec91.jpg

Forster Full Length Sizing Die Cutaway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgIfzsH8N6k

More neck runout is induced during reloading than for any other reason because the expander button and spindle are locked down off center with the die. And this pulls the case necks off center inducing neck runout.

I use the forster coax loading press and forster dies for that very reason. the shell holder and the die are both floating. this allows the die and case to align perfectly without any side stresses.

On my .223 dies I used the full length resizing die and expander ball. Look closely at where the expander ball is located. That is critical. much different than most dies.

If you ever use the forster locking rings you will throw that Oring lock away.

another plus for the coax is you just slide the die in. No threading.

bigedp51
03-17-15, 16:48
I use the forster coax loading press and forster dies for that very reason. the shell holder and the die are both floating. this allows the die and case to align perfectly without any side stresses.

On my .223 dies I used the full length resizing die and expander ball. Look closely at where the expander ball is located. That is critical. much different than most dies.

If you ever use the forster locking rings you will throw that Oring lock away.

another plus for the coax is you just slide the die in. No threading.

The O-ring under the die locknut allows the die to float and self center in the presses threads, therefore the die and the expander button "float" and self center and thus reduce neck runout.
Meaning I turned my old Rockchucker press into a Forster Coax with its floating dies for much, much less. (and not have to fight with the finance minister about spending $300.00 plus dollars on a new press)

Onyx Z
03-17-15, 17:00
The O-ring under the die locknut allows the die to float and self center in the presses threads, therefore the die and the expander button "float" and self center and thus reduce neck runout.
Meaning I turned my old Rockchucker press into a Forster Coax with its floating dies for much, much less. (and not have to fight with the finance minister about spending $300.00 plus dollars on a new press)

You also have the perfect opportunity for the die to come out of adjustment with the Lee nut. I swapped the o-ring lock nut for actual lock nuts as soon as I got my LEE FC die for this very reason.

bigedp51
03-17-15, 18:53
You also have the perfect opportunity for the die to come out of adjustment with the Lee nut. I swapped the o-ring lock nut for actual lock nuts as soon as I got my LEE FC die for this very reason.

After reloading for over 46 years I think I have my bases covered, and reference marks keep the die lock ring aligned.

Lee uses the rubber O-ring for a reason, a conventional die can be locked down off center in the presses threads just like the expander button can be locked down off center. If you would understand "WHY" the Forster Coax press allows the dies to float and the expander button to float you will understand why the coax press is noted for concentric cases with low neck runout readings.

So before you criticize someones reloading procedures you may want to read a few articles at AccurateShooter.com and at German Salazar's website on accurate reloading. ;)

O-Rings on Dies May Reduce Run-Out
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/o-rings-on-dies-may-reduce-run-out/

German Salazar at Berger SW Nationals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu4hc2WDfZU

The Rifleman's Journal
Index of Articles
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/p/articles-index.html

texasgunhand
03-19-15, 01:04
Did i miss it? Or did we figure out the OP problem?

T2C
03-19-15, 12:36
I like the posts by bigedp51. The photos and detailed explanations are very helpful for many of us.

The only recommendation I would add to his posts are that I take a black Sharpie and mark my dies and die holders. If the marks appear to be in the same place, I am comfortable with my die settings. If the marks appear to have moved, I stop and check everything before moving forward.

After cleaning and reassembling the dies, expander balls and die holders, the marks help a great deal in getting close to my original settings. Of course I recheck resized brass with the Stoney Point gauge and caliper to note any changes due to wear and tear, removal of dirt and debris, etc.

markm
03-19-15, 12:50
Witness marks aren't a bad idea. I run the LNL conversion on my single stage so I almost never have to reset dies or mess with locking rings.

GI_Jared
03-19-15, 17:51
OP, I am running the same setup as you except i use Dillon Case Lube. I originally had some of the same issues as you when I was using other lube brands because I apparently like to over apply it. At least, that's what my wife tells me...

shootist~
03-19-15, 22:27
...I. When I run the case up (single stage press) almost every case is just a huge fight. Dies are adjusted to just tap the shell holder at full extension, cases are lubed, cleaned, cleaned or tried to clean the dies nothing seems to help. I'm getting crushed shoulders, and it's a huge headache/chore to just do a small number. Any ideas on what else I can try? All of it is once fired through my rifle, a bunch of lake city, some ta, Remington and some I don't know with just letters on the case head, those are the worst and I've been sorting them off. All of them were from freedom munitions that I had gotten and ran through my colt. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Something sure seems out of spec. I use RCBS small base dies and any lube works fine for .223: Imperial, Dillon, end even Hornady One Shot is not a problem unless you try to use it sparingly.

On the case gauge, there is a maximum and minimum setting - maximum meaning the case sits lower in the gauge; minimum is level with the top of the gauge (on my Wilson, anyway). Using the Hornady Cartridge tool with .004" shoulder setback (for once fired IMI) - my Wilson case gause shows the top of the case roughly halfway between min and max.

Now with some other brands of brass (WCC or Hornady), and especially older case hardened brass, the same die setting gets me only .002" shoulder setback (sometimes even less).

My SWAG is your brass may be crap, but that still would not explain the crushed shoulders. Try some factory fresh loaded ammo in your case gauge as a reference. But know that factory brass can be excessively sized (Federal prob fits here), or just sized to minimum; I've seen some Hornady actually fail - by a blond one or so, so take it for what it's worth.

Also see if some factory fresh ammo that's fired through your rifle acts the same way in the sizer die. Bet is dosen't.

So too much lube gets you a few dented (but not crushed) shoulders - no biggie. Start there and then back off the lube some. Better too much that not enough lube till you figure it out. Lubed .223 cases, (unless multi-fired/case hardened or MG brass), should slide through your sizer die without a lot of effort.

ubet
03-22-15, 07:34
Thanks all for the advice. What bulk brass would you recommend? I have most of my shot brass sized before I posted this, after its loaded and fired in going to leave it lay and just start out with some fresh brass. Is the Wilson case gauge the one to get, I have the hornady bullet comparator kit so getting the shoulder measure piece would be easy. Dillon carbide resizer, is it worth the coin?

markm
03-22-15, 09:55
Dillon carbide resizer, is it worth the coin?

It is for me. I run enough through mine for two trigger happy shooters though.

masan
03-22-15, 10:20
Win or federal brass for 9th have both treated me well.

Wilson Guage works well, or you can just test by plunking roundso into your barrel.

Dillon carbide dies are money well spent.

kwg020
03-22-15, 10:33
I have not been back for a few days and I see you have lots of reply's. If your brass is military it will probably be soft enough because it was done at the factory. It's just my opinion that the small base dies squeeze the brass too much and make it longer, which may be part of your problem. I have a small base die and I don't like it. Standard base has always worked for me even in a .223 chamber as long as I pay attention to details like annealing.

If your brass is not military all it takes to anneal it is a propane torch. Heat the end of the brass just enough to change the colors and that's it. Now it's softer.

I also do 2 extra steps. I use a neck die after full length resizing to make sure the neck is down to where it should be. I also crimp the bullet in the case. These 2 steps let me interchange ammo between 6 different .223/5.56's. Typically there is a little extra room in a 5.56 chamber but there is no extra room in 2 of my .223 chambers. These 2 steps take a little more time but it's worth it in my opinion. I do not have a progressive reloader (Lee 4 hole turret) so I can do these steps without screwing too much up.

To lube my cases after I clean them is I put about 200 in a gallon plastic bag and then squeeze in some RCBS glycerin lube and I let them set at least over night. This gives the lube the chance to spread over the brass. This reduces the odds of using too much lube and denting shoulders.

Good luck.
kwg

bigedp51
03-22-15, 13:24
Thanks all for the advice. What bulk brass would you recommend? I have most of my shot brass sized before I posted this, after its loaded and fired in going to leave it lay and just start out with some fresh brass. Is the Wilson case gauge the one to get, I have the hornady bullet comparator kit so getting the shoulder measure piece would be easy. Dillon carbide resizer, is it worth the coin?

If I was going to use only one type of case and buy bulk brass then it would be Lake City. This is because of its higher quality standards and the hardness of the brass which "NO" other .223 case can come close to.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/556hard-a_zps7570e6b0.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/hardness-a_zps8d54ad66.jpg

I'm 64 and find the Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and a digital vernier caliper very easy to read. On top of this if you buy the Hornady gauge you will not have to buy additional Wilson type gauges for each caliber.

For someone with chronologically gifted eyesight the digital vernier calipers with their large readout saved me from buying braille vernier calipers. :sarcastic:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/headspacegauge004_zps4465b7bc.jpg

Also the Wilson gauges only measure from the shoulder of the case to its base and "DO NOT" measure case diameter like pistol gauges do. I bought the JP Enterprises .223 Wylde/5.56 case gauge to give my loaded rounds the "plunk" test because this gauge "DOES" check body diameter. I'm loading for my sons AR15 rifles also and "dad" isn't going to be blamed for faulty reloads. ;) (200% inspection)

markm
03-23-15, 08:36
I have not been back for a few days and I see you have lots of reply's. If your brass is military it will probably be soft enough because it was done at the factory. It's just my opinion that the small base dies squeeze the brass too much and make it longer, which may be part of your problem.

I'd have to think about that one... but the Dillon dies, like the one I use, are small base and when I leave the expander ball out, I get very minimal case stretch. I'd be willing to bet it's either poor lube (causing some pull when you back the case out of the die) or the expander ball in that specific die.

Like I said, I run my brass through the Dillon die and can really get a good idea of how much stretch I get when I run the cases through the Giraud trimmer. Brass usually barely gets a kiss from the cutter.


I use a neck die after full length resizing to make sure the neck is down to where it should be. I also crimp the bullet in the case. These 2 steps let me interchange ammo between 6 different .223/5.56's. Typically there is a little extra room in a 5.56 chamber but there is no extra room in 2 of my .223 chambers. These 2 steps take a little more time but it's worth it in my opinion. I do not have a progressive reloader (Lee 4 hole turret) so I can do these steps without screwing too much up.


I bet you could just get away with the crimp only. I mean, if you feel decent neck tension when you seat the bullet, you'd probably be fine. I crimp too and we run the ammo through no less than a dozen different ARs/Bolt guns.

rcoodyar15
03-23-15, 14:44
Thanks all for the advice. What bulk brass would you recommend? I have most of my shot brass sized before I posted this, after its loaded and fired in going to leave it lay and just start out with some fresh brass. Is the Wilson case gauge the one to get, I have the hornady bullet comparator kit so getting the shoulder measure piece would be easy. Dillon carbide resizer, is it worth the coin?

what did you find was the problem when you were crushing the shoulders on the down stroke?

I have always used carbide pistol dies but I use forster rifle dies. Of course all I reload for is my precision rifles. Bulk ammo is just too cheap to go to the trouble of reloading.

rcoodyar15
03-23-15, 14:48
If I was going to use only one type of case and buy bulk brass then it would be Lake City. This is because of its higher quality standards and the hardness of the brass which "NO" other .223 case can come close to.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/556hard-a_zps7570e6b0.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/hardness-a_zps8d54ad66.jpg

I'm 64 and find the Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and a digital vernier caliper very easy to read. On top of this if you buy the Hornady gauge you will not have to buy additional Wilson type gauges for each caliber.

For someone with chronologically gifted eyesight the digital vernier calipers with their large readout saved me from buying braille vernier calipers. :sarcastic:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/headspacegauge004_zps4465b7bc.jpg

Also the Wilson gauges only measure from the shoulder of the case to its base and "DO NOT" measure case diameter like pistol gauges do. I bought the JP Enterprises .223 Wylde/5.56 case gauge to give my loaded rounds the "plunk" test because this gauge "DOES" check body diameter. I'm loading for my sons AR15 rifles also and "dad" isn't going to be blamed for faulty reloads. ;) (200% inspection)

Well I have had good luck with lapua brass.

I went the military brass route when I first started reloading for my AR. Way too much work in brass prep. Crimped in primers #@$%!

kwg020
03-23-15, 21:50
I am not picky about brass. What ever I can get for a reasonable price. As for the expander ball. I used to use a standard sized ball and then on the second die; the neck sizer, I went without a ball. I crushed too many shoulders when seating bullets. You can crush a shoulder and not be able to see the crush, but your gun will know. I then put in an expander ball that I had reduced in size by a couple of thousands, I reduced my crushed shoulders to next to nothing and I still got what looked like good neck tension. (how would you measure?) The smaller sizer ball is easier to pull out of the brass without lube. I still crimp anyway, as well. I use predominately RCBS dies and no small based dies. kwg
kwg

ubet
10-07-15, 22:08
Update, I got some Dillon case lube awhile back and finally just started reloading again. My reloading room hot in the summer and just so much going on its tough to settle into it. But with the days shortening I've entered it again. Fast forward to tonight, I applied some of the case lube and the first few cases were still tough, but then they just seemed to line out and were resizing pretty easy, some were still tough but for the most part a world of difference. Thanks for the advice on the dcl, think I might invest in a Dillon carbide resizer still in the future. So, thanks again everyone. Now I just need my 1000 rds of noslers to come in.