View Full Version : cheapest AR's?
Im not buying one, it came up in conversation and made me curious.
Didnt PSA have complete guns or kits for $399, ptac if I recall
brettd1982
03-16-15, 16:36
Ptac is crap. People hate on PSA but apparently ptac is even worse.
Berserkr556
03-16-15, 17:22
Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Sport, $539. I bought one for $500. out the door not long ago and shot the hell out of it without one malfunction. If you're going to buy something below a Colt then the M&P 15 Sport is the only one to get.
I 100% agree with S&W (I own two BCMs) , this was more general conversation, about 'some' AR's being cheaper than glocks, etc
You can buy seperate uppers and lowers and combine them from PSA and get one that is actually made well for around $600.
Wasn't Troy putting out decent "cheap" ARs not too long ago? Whatever happened to that?
Im not buying one, it came up in conversation and made me curious.
Didnt PSA have complete guns or kits for $399, ptac if I recall
That was probably minus the lower. But even then you can get an Anderson lower for $40-$50. You usually still need a rear sight and mags though.
NWcityguy2
03-16-15, 20:35
They have one right now for $399. But officerX is right, even a kit + a lower isn't a truly ready to shoot rifle. A Glock that comes with 3 mags is ready to go out to the range the moment you buy it.
F-Trooper05
03-17-15, 04:31
Wasn't Troy putting out decent "cheap" ARs not too long ago? Whatever happened to that?
They're no longer cheap, and they're shitty as f*ck.
They're no longer cheap, and they're shitty as f*ck.
In what way?
ennbeegunny15
03-17-15, 07:47
This isn't locked yet? Lol
I just finished a PSA build, FN barrel mid length, the rest is mil-spec'ish. A2 front sight and a DD rear. I'm not an MOA shooter, especially not with iron sights but a friend does service rifle competitions. I'll have him shoot it for accuracy but I haven't had a hiccup.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 09:00
I just finished a PSA build, FN barrel mid length, the rest is mil-spec'ish. A2 front sight and a DD rear. I'm not an MOA shooter, especially not with iron sights but a friend does service rifle competitions. I'll have him shoot it for accuracy but I haven't had a hiccup.
He mentioned PTAC, PSA and PTAC are not the same brand, PSA is a better product over the PTAC. Ive built two PSA rifles and haven't had a problem. Ive heard more problems out of the PTAC line than ive witnessed and heard out of the PSA line, in my opinion PSA needs to drop the PTAC offerings. Also they need to stick with a certain number of uppers instead of putting a million and one uppers up for sale. I purchased my 18" upper from them and i havent seen it up for sale in a long time.
Ptac is crap. People hate on PSA but apparently ptac is even worse.
From your comment PTAC is worse than PSA meaning PSA is too a lesser extent bad. PSA uses FN barrels and mil-spec HPT/MPI BCG and a mil-spec trigger pack less an auto sear. Everything else is furniture. The only difference between PSA and BCM BCG is PSA is batch tested and BCM is individually tested. Most likely BCM gets their barrels from FN as well meaning everything else on the gun are Lego parts!
Inkslinger
03-17-15, 09:42
From your comment PTAC is worse than PSA meaning PSA is too a lesser extent bad. PSA uses FN barrels and mil-spec HPT/MPI BCG and a mil-spec trigger pack less an auto sear. Everything else is furniture. The only difference between PSA and BCM BCG is PSA is batch tested and BCM is individually tested. Most likely BCM gets their barrels from FN as well meaning everything else on the gun are Lego parts!
Cough cough bullshit cough. You need to spend sometime educating yourself.
556BlackRifle
03-17-15, 09:45
Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Sport, $539. I bought one for $500. out the door not long ago and shot the hell out of it without one malfunction. If you're going to buy something below a Colt then the M&P 15 Sport is the only one to get.
A buddy of mine has one and loves it. Never a problem and decent accuracy. No dust cover or forward assist, just a bare bones all business AR.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 09:51
Cough cough bullshit cough. You need to spend sometime educating yourself.
No from my comment i said people hate on psa but ptac is worse. Ive built two psa rifles and bought parts kits from them and i have no problem with them, they serve me well, im just saying that if people think psa is bad then they shouldnt touch the ptac stuff.
As far as the bcm vs psa goes, you are paying for quality assurence, brand name and finish. I dont believe that psa gets lower quality barrels from fn.. When dealing with PSA its a hit and miss situation although from my experience ive had no quality or shipping problems, but i know some people have.
From your comment PTAC is worse than PSA meaning PSA is too a lesser extent bad. PSA uses FN barrels and mil-spec HPT/MPI BCG and a mil-spec trigger pack less an auto sear. Everything else is furniture. The only difference between PSA and BCM BCG is PSA is batch tested and BCM is individually tested. Most likely BCM gets their barrels from FN as well meaning everything else on the gun are Lego parts!
Inkslinger
03-17-15, 10:00
No from my comment i said people hate on psa but ptac is worse. Ive built two psa rifles and bought parts kits from them and i have no problem with them, they serve me well, im just saying that if people think psa is bad then they shouldnt touch the ptac stuff
My comment was to the individual that was insinuating the PSA and BCM were of the same quality.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 10:04
I know for some reason tapa talk screwed up but i responded to your comment too.
My comment was to the individual that was insinuating the PSA and BCM were of the same quality.
BCM has higher quality control, better assembly and MUCH better shipping and customer service than PSA. A CHF chrome lined barrel from FN vs a CHF chrome lined barrel from in all likelihood also FN, a MPI/HPT BCG per mil spec vs another of identical mil-spec are most likely um uh, about equal. Trigger, well BCM mostly uses a mil spec trigger. Now out of the box if my life depends on the rifle I'm grabbing the BCM, but after testing the PSA and making sure there's no issues the two rifles are basically equal.
No from my comment i said people hate on psa but ptac is worse. Ive built two psa rifles and bought parts kits from them and i have no problem with them, they serve me well, im just saying that if people think psa is bad then they shouldnt touch the ptac stuff.
As far as the bcm vs psa goes, you are paying for quality assurence, brand name and finish. I dont believe that psa gets lower quality barrels from fn.. When dealing with PSA its a hit and miss situation although from my experience ive had no quality or shipping problems, but i know some people have.
Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying.
Inkslinger
03-17-15, 10:40
FN makes the barrel to the spec supplied to them by the customer. Two different FN barrels supplied to two different customers does not mean the barrels are the same quality.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 10:44
FN makes the barrel to the spec supplied to them by the customer. Two different FN barrels supplied to two different customers does not mean the barrels are the same quality.
Does it mean the psa barrrels are junk? No. It seems like most people get pretty good groups with the barrels they use and as far as durability, I dont know I havent shot that many rounds out of it to quantify if the barrel is or not. Even so I highly doubt BCM'S barrels are that much better.
Inkslinger
03-17-15, 10:52
I should have known better to get involved in a "cheapest AR" thread.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 10:55
I should have known better to get involved in a "cheapest AR" thread.
Well id just like to see proof that the barrels psa uses are subpar.
I forgot, FN makes a sh!tty line of barrels that they prominently stamp their name on because someone asked them too.
I forgot, FN makes a sh!tty line of barrels that they prominently stamp their name on because someone asked them too.
I don't think anyone said they were crap, you just cant ASSUME they are the same quality just because they are from the same maker.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 11:05
I don't think anyone said they were crap, you just cant ASSUME they are the same quality just because they are from the same maker.
But you can ASSUME they are lesser quality because those barrels go to PSA?
Companies stake their repretation on the quality of product they put out. Maybe PSA tells them to make their barrels to their spec but I doubt FN would agree to make a barrel that would hurt their rep. As far as the specs go for psa barrels they seem to be the same quality as military contract barrels.
after testing the PSA and making sure there's no issues the two rifles are basically equal.
How many rounds?
I shot a couple hundred times, every time I pull the trigger the bullets come out the right end so that's a good thing [emoji106]
I shot a couple hundred times, every time I pull the trigger the bullets come out the right end so that's a good thing [emoji106]
LOL, good one! Oh wait, you're serious?
I should have known better to get involved in a "cheapest AR" thread.
Not a total loss Ink. At least you recognized & learned from your mistake. :)
Cool article about FN manufacturing plant here in the US.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/08/foghorn/a-look-inside-fnms-south-carolina-barrel-shop/
As far as I can tell both barrels are finished per mil spec. Perhaps PSA is having a M240 blank cut down to a M4 profile, none of us know. The fact is they are both made to extremely high standards and finished to mil spec. Now the BCG are both M16 profile, C158, grade 8 bla bla bla...
I'm not trying to be argumentative, please give me facts on why I'm wrong, I really want to know. Now I will say BCM probably takes more care and pride assembling their products. They are probably more accurate torquing down the barrel nut and aligning the gas block. BCM also has much better shipping and quality control. But the BCG, barrel and trigger are basically the same thing. Out of the box I would bet my life on the ability of the Lego ninja builders at BCM over PSA but at the end of the day that's all you're paying for!
IB4TL
And that accomplishes what?
wildcard600
03-17-15, 17:19
And that accomplishes what?
This thread dosent accomplish anything either, this discussion has been hashed out multiple times just in the past few days.
half the time i wonder if these are joke threads from someone just trying to troll people in flame wars but lo and behold, they are serious most of the time.
I won't bother then, simply link a thread with factual information about the differences and I'll leave it alone.
Inkslinger
03-17-15, 17:22
This thread dosent accomplish anything either, this discussion has been hashed out multiple times just in the past few days.
half the time i wonder if these are joke threads from someone just trying to troll people in flame wars but lo and behold, they are serious most of the time.
I dropped a dime on this thread after reading the OP. Somebody must of thought it had some merit.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 17:23
Theres just to much fanboyism. Atleast PSA is some what liked here.
Inkslinger
03-17-15, 17:30
Theres just to much fanboyism
Sorry if you don't agree with endorsing company's with a proven track record of quality.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 17:32
Sorry if you don't agree with endorsing company's with a proven track record of quality.
I do but i dont discredit other companies either[emoji6]
Inkslinger
03-17-15, 17:36
I do but i dont discredit other companies either[emoji6]
Sub par companies don't need my help to discredit themselves.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 17:37
Lol funny yet you have no proof that the barrels being used by psa are subpar.
Sub par companies don't need my help to discredit themselves.
Other than just random comments do you have a single fact to share or are you just drunk typing?
(I think that should pretty much close this thread)
LOL, good one! Oh wait, you're serious?
At least he got to triple digits. Better than the guy who claimed his build was good to go after a whopping 12 round range test.
That said, what in the hell does this thread have to do with cheap ARs at this point? I think there already a few threads on barrels and why one might choose one over the other. Also, if you are wanting to go the cheapest than I seriously doubt that you are going to concern yourself with quality, only the almighty dollar. At any rate I have all you assholes beat since I have gotten PAID to take an AR, so there, thread closed I win!
Inkslinger
03-17-15, 17:44
This forum is full of the facts your looking for. Instead of me giving them all to you find them yourself. My opinions did not just magically appear in my head. They have developed from fact, examples, and real world use. I own and have owned "just as good as" guns. When I talk to people who are interested in buying their first AR, there's a reason I never suggest any of those manufacturers.
I dropped a dime on this thread after reading the OP. Somebody must of thought it had some merit.
Yes, apparently somebody did. Probably because they haven't been here as long as you or spent the recommended time reading effectively, however adding insult to injury rarely pans out as an effective cure for lack of knowledge. Additionally one thing my time here has clarified is how unpleasant it is to watch one member attempt to diminish another because they don't yet know what you do.
On a side note; Tanktop as you go you'll see that rarely does first-hand testimony related to a couple hundred rounds fired without issue take you very far. Our discussions focus on components that are proven way beyond such a scenario. That's not being said to embarrass you, just to help you understand that there is more to the big picture.
On a side note; Tanktop as you go you'll see that rarely does first-hand testimony related to a couple hundred rounds fired without issue take you very far. Our discussions focus on components that are proven way beyond such a scenario. That's not being said to embarrass you, just to help you understand that there is more to the big picture.
Point taken! I think this thread has run off on a rabbit trail. One poster made a comment about PSA and PTAC, I thought they were putting them both in the same category. My point is the basics of a PSA and BCM are virtually identical components even though BCM has much better assembly and quality control. On a side note another of my past rifles was made in Oregon shortly before John passed away... Anyway at $600 for a complete rifle PSA is putting out a damn good product.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 18:01
This forum is full of the facts your looking for. Instead of me giving them all to you find them yourself. My opinions did not just magically appear in my head. They have developed from fact, examples, and real world use. I own and have owned "just as good as" guns. When I talk to people who are interested in buying their first AR, there's a reason I never suggest any of those manufacturers.
the facts are this forum might as well be renamed the BCM forum. We all know if you dont own one you're an outsider.
Btw I'd love to own a BCM =)
brettd1982
03-17-15, 18:07
Btw I'd love to own a BCM =)
Me too and probably be my 4th ar when I build another.
the facts are this forum might as well be renamed the BCM forum. We all know if you dont own one you're an outsider.
That's incorrect and only fans the flames. BCM has earned their reputation and are treated accordingly, however there are many other brands and variants highly thought of here. A simple base model 6920 is a prime example.
No doubt some go overboard because it helps them feel superior, but there is still valuable articulation and comparison to be found if you can manage to see through the cool-guy bullshit.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 18:20
That's incorrect and only fans the flames. BCM has earned their reputation and are treated accordingly, however there are many other brands and variants highly thought of here. A simple base model 6920 is a prime example.
No doubt some go overboard because it helps them feel superior, but there is still valuable articulation and comparison to be found if you can manage to see through the cool-guy bullshit.
True, although. atleast there is a small fan base. Theres some manufactures that would be ran out of here.
the facts are this forum might as well be renamed the BCM forum. We all know if you dont own one you're an outsider.
Why do you care what people on here or any other forum recommend? If you ask for advice, you can take it or leave it and proceed with your life.
I don't own a single BCM rifle, my life is quite full and meaningful and I don't feel like an outsider on this site. Man up.
(I may be considered an outsider, but why would that bother me for even a fast second?)
brettd1982
03-17-15, 18:39
Why do you care what people on here or any other forum recommend? If you ask for advice, you can take it or leave it and proceed with your life.
I don't own a single BCM rifle, my life is quite full and meaningful and I don't feel like an outsider on this site. Man up.
(I may be considered an outsider, but why would that bother me for even a fast second?)
I wasnt asking for advice... As far as the outsider comment. You can be banned for not owning certain manufacturer's, ive heard of it happening before.
Why do you care what people on here or any other forum recommend? If you ask for advice, you can take it or leave it and proceed with your life.
I don't own a single BCM rifle, my life is quite full and meaningful and I don't feel like an outsider on this site. Man up.
(I may be considered an outsider, but why would that bother me for even a fast second?)
I don't think any of us are bashing the forums mascot and we're more than happy to subside as outsiders until we are fortunate enough to be as cool as others and also poses the holy grail of the most sought after weapons system in the universe otherwise known as the modern sporting rifle manufactured by the former armorers of the greatest fighting forces of the United States otherwise known as the Navy Seals!!!! AMERICA!!!!
NWcityguy2
03-17-15, 18:47
And... thread derailed. If you are getting invested in the BCM vs PSA thing but aren't discussing your personal, hands on experiences, you are wasting your time. There are plenty of people who can review a rifle by what they read online, don't be one of them.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 18:50
Im not one of them i own two psa rifles. I never said anything negative towards bcm since i have no experience with them.
There is more to building a quality ar than parts, and different companies can spec different requirements. Campana A can require a tighter spec than company B and Bs products can therefore cost less but there is a greater chance of being outside the range that gives optimal performance. This is what manufacturing defines as quality in a nutshell.
I wasnt asking for advice... As far as the outsider comment. You can be banned for not owning certain manufacturer's, ive heard of it happening before.
Baloney. You get banned for being an argumentative idiot from what I've seen.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 19:06
Baloney. You get banned for being an argumentative idiot from what I've seen.
You show up here with a bushmaster you'll probably get banned.
sevenhelmet
03-17-15, 19:14
You show up here with a bushmaster you'll probably get banned.
There is absolutely no proof to support that claim. I can only conclude you are trolling, which is bad form on any forum.
The technical value of this thread was lost somewhere along the way... I'm honestly amazed it is still going.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 19:17
There is absolutely no proof to support that claim. I can only conclude you are trolling, which is bad form on any forum.
The technical value of this thread was lost somewhere along the way... I'm honestly amazed it is still going.
If you want proof. I was last year.
If you want proof. I was last year.
Somehow I doubt it was for owning a Bushmaster.
If you want proof. I was last year.
Was it the carbon model, that would make sense
If you want proof. I was last year.
For owning a shlub master? Sure, OK. I came to this forum with a shlub master with some goofy attachments yet, and was supplied with excellent advice by people who know far more than I did/do about ARs, and some how, was not banned. I ended up with a far better set up due to that advice which I was given which is not expensive nor complex.
To go back to cheapest AR's. Picked up a 6920 magpul-b for at 1k. Price seemed normal three years ago. Dealer tossed in a 3rd P-mag and 20 rds of PMC.223 as well. Over 5K rounds and two serious cleanings have FTF twice. Ran dry so BCG didn't have enough force to fire while in battery and a failed last load from the original .233 to hold back BCG. At the end of the day I would think my Colt falls under the " Cheap AR "
For owning a shlub master? Sure, OK. I came to this forum with a shlub master with some goofy attachments yet, and was supplied with excellent advice by people who know far more than I did/do about ARs, and some how, was not banned. I ended up with a far better set up due to that advice which I was given which is not expensive nor complex.
Pretty much this ^^^ is how it goes down... just sayin
brettd1982
03-17-15, 19:37
For owning a shlub master? Sure, OK. I came to this forum with a shlub master with some goofy attachments yet, and was supplied with excellent advice by people who know far more than I did/do about ARs, and some how, was not banned. I ended up with a far better set up due to that advice which I was given which is not expensive nor complex.
I got banned for showing mine and saying it ran flawless and then ibgot a message from a mod saying i was trolling then got banned.
I got banned for showing mine and saying it ran flawless and then ibgot a message from a mod saying i was trolling then got banned.
Sorry, not buying what you're selling. Been here too long and came here as a BM owner no less, to buy that nonsense. So, moving along....
brettd1982
03-17-15, 19:43
Sorry, not buying what you're selling. Been here too long and came here as a BM owner no less, to buy that nonsense. So, moving along....
Believe what you want. I have no reason to lie.
Glad this thread is back on track, some of you guys will just run off with any topic...
Singlestack Wonder
03-17-15, 19:45
With the nubie op's low post count and ludicrous comments, its obvious they have little experience with serious firearms usage. With so much informative data available here, with a little effort and studying, they could be enlightened.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 19:46
With the nubie op's low post count and ludicrous comments, its obvious they have little experience with serious firearms usage. With so much informative data available here, with a little effort and studying, they could be enlightened.
So forum post count makes you either a noob or a bad ass operator??
sevenhelmet
03-17-15, 19:51
Dude. Stop. It is already obvious to all of us reading this why you were banned in the first place. Whatever point you are trying to prove has long since been lost. Just swallow your pride and stop posting in this thread. You are only damaging your own credibility.
I had one of the early MP15 sports, I think it was around the time they switched from Stag to in house as mine had the 5R melonite. I had way over 5k of steel case with a carbine buffer before I knew better. Shot it some more with an H and have sold it to a friend who is still shooting it. I bet that rifles been cleaned 3 times, never 1 malfunction except for empty steel cases getting stuck in the chamber, but that's certainly not the guns fault.
If you want proof. I was last year.
It's a cute hypothesis, but OWNING a BM is not now, nor has it ever been a viable reason to ban anybody.
Even BEING a shithead isn't likely to get one banned, though ACTING like one in how one posts....that's another story.
In case it needs remediation: M4C members apply for membership to the forum (not the other way around), and during the process agree to abide by M4C policies and practices. They reaffirm that every time they log on. If you cannot, or will not do that...well, nobody can make you, but we can and will remove one's ability to break the agreement they make with the forum.
If they somehow manage to misconstrue the reasons as to why they were banned...i.e., failure to abide by the rules of this privately-owned webspace...in such away as to think that their ownership of any particular thing was the cause, we're generally comfortable laying that at the feet of our nation's public school reading programs.
Now, if you cats want to continue to chatter over cheap ARs (for whatever cockamamie reason), you're free to do so, but get back to doing so NOW, without the needless backbiting and woeful miscomprehension as to why one does or does not get banned.
If anybody has a beef with the staff and how we see to enforcing published forum policy...the PM function works. Use it, and keep a polite tongue (fingers) in your head (on your keyboard). We're open to legit gripes, but are unsurprisingly reluctant to get "mother****er'd" by anybody, be it a public or private conversation.
brettd1982
03-17-15, 20:06
I had one of the early MP15 sports, I think it was around the time they switched from Stag to in house as mine had the 5R melonite. I had way over 5k of steel case with a carbine buffer before I knew better. Shot it some more with an H and have sold it to a friend who is still shooting it. I bet that rifles been cleaned 3 times, never 1 malfunction except for empty steel cases getting stuck in the chamber, but that's certainly not the guns fault.
The m&p sport is a good starter ar-15. Something to get you bit by the ar-15 bug then from there start building one. I think if i had to start over again I would of built my own first.
My M&P sport is more accurate than most of my expensive AR's FWIW.
For 600 I think you can do better than a Psa for home defense
400 blem BCM upper w bcg & compensator
20 aero precision 7075 ch
50 anderson lower
90 Psa lpk w 7075 tube
25 shipping
1 hour of your time & your buddies punches & wrench
If only for the range, nothing wrong with ptac if your fine with it.
I had a Psa but sold it when BCM had their sale. It was a no brainer
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