Are Gen 4 G20 models still having FTF on last round?

[WitchDoctor02]

ETA BLUF: Got some straight shooting, well-feeding ammo solutions in stock G20 for town and backcountry. Get some #4 followers if you don't have them already. Most recent update on page 3. Thanks for the input!

Original Post:
Looking to pull the trigger on a G20 unless I can bring myself to wait for a G40. This is for backcountry use and will be running Buffalo Bore 220gr or similar Double Tap/Underwood/etc. after testing.

I've read in older threads here and elsewhere going back to SHOT 2013 demos through as recently as late 2014 that last round in the mag has a tendency to FTF, with slide locking back as though mag is dry. From reports, doesn't matter if mag is loaded with 5 or 15 rounds, that hot loads lock back with last round still in the magazine.

Folks running mid- or lower-powered loads don't seem to have an issue. Rather, folks running 200 grains or more. The high thumb excuse may or may not be at play in some cases, but considering that several were experienced with Gen 2 and/or Gen 3 G20 models, that is a suspicious blanket explanation.

Apparently Glock had replaced mags L and R with no effect, and typically stated that the models were fine. In several cases, Glock offered users a Gen 3 G20/G20SF in exchange for their Gen 4s after they persisted with complaints.

So, who has been running a Gen 4 G20 with 200 gr.+ loads and can give a good or bad report? Anyone work through the issue successfully? Sounds like 2013-2014 many chose to hunt down G20SFs rather than risk the Gen 4. By many accounts, the G20SF has been the line's champ.

At $1-2/round, I don't want to sign on to be quality control/problem solver for 1,000 rounds if this is a problem that one should inevitably expect. Again, it seems as though owners running lighter and standard loads did not encounter the issue, so it may not be an apparent issue unless one pushes the weapon.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Sensei]

Looking to pull the trigger on a G20 unless I can bring myself to wait for a G40. This is for backcountry use and will be running Buffalo Bore 220gr or similar Double Tap/Underwood/etc. after testing.

I've read in older threads here and elsewhere going back to SHOT 2013 demos through as recently as late 2014 that last round in the mag has a tendency to FTF, with slide locking back as though mag is dry. From reports, doesn't matter if mag is loaded with 5 or 15 rounds, that hot loads lock back with last round still in the magazine.

Folks running mid- or lower-powered loads don't seem to have an issue. Rather, folks running 200 grains or more. The high thumb excuse may or may not be at play in some cases, but considering that several were experienced with Gen 2 and/or Gen 3 G20 models, that is a suspicious blanket explanation.

Apparently Glock had replaced mags L and R with no effect, and typically stated that the models were fine. In several cases, Glock offered users a Gen 3 G20/G20SF in exchange for their Gen 4s after they persisted with complaints.

So, who has been running a Gen 4 G20 with 200 gr.+ loads and can give a good or bad report? Anyone work through the issue successfully? Sounds like 2013-2014 many chose to hunt down G20SFs rather than risk the Gen 4. By many account, the G20SF has been the line's champ.

At $1-2/round, I don't want to sign on to be quality control/problem solver for 1,000 rounds if this is a problem that one should inevitably expect. Again, it seems as though owners running lighter and standard loads did not encounter the issue, so it may not be an apparent issue unless one pushes the weapon.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I have a G20 in both SF and Gen4 flavors. I have about 150 rounds of Hornady 200 grain XTP through the Gen4 and never had any FTF problems. Another 250-300 rounds of 180 FMJ and JHP have also been fired without issues.

BTW, the Gen4 feels a tad softer in the recoil department compared to the SF. I chalk that up to the recoil spring assembly.

[GJM]

In my experience the factory Hornady 200 XTP has been reliable in Gen 3 and 4 20 and 29 models. Of course, it looks like Hornady just discontinued the 200 XTP, although they kept the 180 XTP.

The Trophy Bonded 180 seems to function in 20 and 29 models.

The Buffalo Bore and Corbon 200 penetrator loads do not function in multiple of my 20 models, and the 200 DT and Underwood are better but not 100 percent.

[WitchDoctor02]

Thanks for the feedback, both - especially with both of your experience with the two generations. I have no particular interest in Gen 4 features over the G20SF, so I'm all ears if anyone has a preference either way.

Sensei, do you know about when your Gen 4 was birthed?

Same to you, GJM, and can you describe the malfunctions you experienced with the hard cast rounds you've tried and if it was with both generations?

[GJM]

The penetrator loads I refer to are FMJ, not hard cast.

[KenB987]

I have a gen 3 20sf, I routinely have the problem you are describing shooting 180gr underwood.

I read somewhere about filing the follower, I have not done it.

I have a bunch of mags, both std capacity, and 10 round, they are marked and there is no pattern, they have all done it. This is the only glock that has given me any trouble.

[WitchDoctor02]

Ah, sorry about that, GJM - I was assuming the Buffalo Bores, DTs, and Underwoods were hard cast.

[WitchDoctor02]

I have a gen 3 20sf, I routinely have the problem you are describing shooting 180gr underwood.

I read somewhere about filing the follower, I have not done it.

I have a bunch of mags, both std capacity, and 10 round, they are marked and there is no pattern, they have all done it. This is the only glock that has given me any trouble.

The plot thickens! I hadn't read of Gen 3 G20SFs having the same issue until you mentioned it just now, so that is good to know. I guess it was a signals to noise issue that I only saw Gen 4 threads before, as a quick Google search just now revealed similar G20SF threads on multiple sites going back to 2011 that I missed. Based on yours and perhaps GJM's experiences, as well as those threads, it's not a Gen 4 G20 issue, but a broader G20/mag issue.

Perhaps that filing would help (or replacing #3 followers with #2 followers), but that sucks being forced to modify Glock mags that have always been so reliable on every other model. Of course, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

I wonder if a 22 or 24 pound recoil spring or Wolff mag springs would help at all? Some have suggested that is was more of a timing issue, thus the recoil spring, which BB has suggested replacing for the heavier bullets. Though, if it's always the last round, it makes one wonder about the last round's angle on the follower. It appears that spring replacements generally did not remedy this issue, though a few did not return to their threads after others suggested it...

I don't mind experimenting a bit with ammo, followers, springs, or barrels for such a powerhouse on the platform, though it does start to get away from the functional appeal of most Glocks and certainly can be expensive with premium 10mm ammo, which seems to be the only ammo that induces the issues at hand. It also sounds generally like a hot mess of 'upgrades.' Perhaps I'll just have to take my chances and if it will run for 14 rounds experiment more widely or treat is as a 14 round shooter with one loiterer in each mag.

[Sensei]

Thanks for the feedback, both - especially with both of your experience with the two generations. I have no particular interest in Gen 4 features over the G20SF, so I'm all ears if anyone has a preference either way.

Sensei, do you know about when your Gen 4 was birthed?

Same to you, GJM, and can you describe the malfunctions you experienced with the hard cast rounds you've tried and if it was with both generations?

Mine was among the first models in the FDE frame - I bought it almost 2 years ago.

[GJM]

I believe the issue is with 200 and 220 grain ammo driven fast, especially with flat point bullet shapes.

[teutonicpolymer]

The hornady 200 gr xtp works but it is like a 45 +p load

Been a while since I used a G20 gen 4 but I did use underwood hardcast 220 gr and their 200 gr xtp load. I may have experienced this phenomenon but I think it was an ammo problem. Underwood did a batch of ammo with nickel plated cases that were brittle. I was getting cracked cases and early slide locking. They replaced the ammo with regular brass and what I tried seemed to have worked fine but I also used the underwood stuff sparingly due to price so maybe there just wasn't enough rounds put thru.

I would be tempted to just get the g40 for the velocity however the optics plate system means there is an eerily thin part of the slide, especially considering that it is a 10mm

That being said the g20 is one of my favorite handguns due to its versatility

[G19A3]

Looking to pull the trigger on a G20 unless I can bring myself to wait for a G40. This is for backcountry use and will be running Buffalo Bore 220gr or similar Double Tap/Underwood/etc. after testing.

I've read in older threads here and elsewhere going back to SHOT 2013 demos through as recently as late 2014 that last round in the mag has a tendency to FTF, with slide locking back as though mag is dry. From reports, doesn't matter if mag is loaded with 5 or 15 rounds, that hot loads lock back with last round still in the magazine.

Folks running mid- or lower-powered loads don't seem to have an issue. Rather, folks running 200 grains or more. The high thumb excuse may or may not be at play in some cases, but considering that several were experienced with Gen 2 and/or Gen 3 G20 models, that is a suspicious blanket explanation.

Apparently Glock had replaced mags L and R with no effect, and typically stated that the models were fine. In several cases, Glock offered users a Gen 3 G20/G20SF in exchange for their Gen 4s after they persisted with complaints.

So, who has been running a Gen 4 G20 with 200 gr.+ loads and can give a good or bad report? Anyone work through the issue successfully? Sounds like 2013-2014 many chose to hunt down G20SFs rather than risk the Gen 4. By many account, the G20SF has been the line's champ.

At $1-2/round, I don't want to sign on to be quality control/problem solver for 1,000 rounds if this is a problem that one should inevitably expect. Again, it seems as though owners running lighter and standard loads did not encounter the issue, so it may not be an apparent issue unless one pushes the weapon.

Thanks for your thoughts.

What great timing for this thread! I am also contemplating the purchase of a G20 Gen4, for backcountry use and will be using the heavies exclusively (Buffalo Bore 220gr or similar Double Tap/Underwood/etc.) I never knew of the problems with the entire G20 family (All Gens, SF, etc.) regarding hot and heavy loads.

To the OP, can you give a little more detail of the research you have uncovered? Is it correct that at least the chambered hot/heavy chambered round and the subsequent mag-fed hot/heavy rounds #1 thru #14 in the magazine will function reliably? If so, I may be able to live with that if I can get 15 rounds of TOTAL RELIABILITY before a reload.

Can you describe how bad the last round is jammed up? Is the last round half in the mag and half on the feed ramp, or is the last round fully seated in the mag, just that the slide is locked back? Is the last round causing the the slide to lock back WITHOUT the slide lock or is the slide lock somehow activating? If the mag can be ejected normally and cleanly, with the exception of one remaining round, and a fresh mag can be inserted and reloaded without further drama, I think I can live with 14+1 of 220gr goodness.

[KenB987]

not that bad, the slide locks back with one round remaining in the mag. not the end of the world, just irritating

[G19A3]

not that bad, the slide locks back with one round remaining in the mag. not the end of the world, just irritating

The slide stop is somehow activated into the up position into the slide stop notch?

[mayonaise]

There's an updated follower (4) for the 10mm Glocks. If you're having issues, I'd contact their service dept.

[azeriosu85]

this is relevant to my interests...however, disappointing as well.

[KenB987]

There's an updated follower (4) for the 10mm Glocks. If you're having issues, I'd contact their service dept.

I may have to call them, I have "2s" on my 10 rounders and "3s" on my std capacity mags, both are troubled.

[GunBugBit]

A couple of other G20 owners have recommended to me that if I shoot full-power 10mm loads such as the Underwood loads out of my G20, I should use a heavier-than-stock spring. They said they have no issues with 24-lb aftermarket recoil spring assemblies (RSAs) when shooting the full-power ammo.

So far I have only shot the mild stuff out of my bone-stock G20, with no issues. I ordered some Underwood 180gr FMJ and JHP ammo and a 24-lb RSA, and should have them in the mail soon. I'll report back on my results.

[GunBugBit]

The Underwood ammo didn't arrive yet, but the 24-lb recoil spring assembly did. I'm glad to report that the HPR 180gr FMJ (pretty mild, around 1100 fps I think) cycles 100% with the heavier recoil spring. Now to see how it works with the full-power Underwood.

[PD Sgt.]

My blue label Gen4 G29 locks back with one in the mag, most frequently with the Pearce grip extensions (+0) on them. Does not seem to make a difference with ammo type. I called Glock today and they are sending me out the new followers. The followers that came with the pistol had the number 3 on them. Rep I talked to was real friendly and said they would get them right out to me. I will post an update when I get them in.

[WitchDoctor02]

Thanks for the additional info and thoughts, all. G19A3, after my original post, I found a few more issues reported on multiple sites. As I got deeper into rabbit hole after pursuing leads from the first few posts, I noted that this was an issue in some Gen 3 G20s, G20SFs, and Gen 4 G20s, as well as G29s, so, in other words, it does not seem to be isolated to Gen 4 G20. In several instances people experienced fewer issues after removing multiple 'upgrades,' while others experienced the issues with stock[ish] configurations. At this point, I've decided to go for it and take it as it comes. I hate to contribute much more noise to the universe based on hearsay, so I figure I better find out for myself before I spread any more doubt.

From what I've read, the jury is still out on the #4 followers as to whether or not they are 'the' solution, as many don't know about them or haven't requested/tested them. We'll see. The G20SF in the shop around the corner has #4 followers in the box. I purchased a Gen 4 G20 from a shop two hours away last week and made the trip to pick it up, but didn't realize that my CHL had expired in December until the clerk noticed it. So, my G20 is cooling off until later this week - first time in my life I couldn't walk out the door with a new firearm, and it was a rather anti-climatic experience all together. In the confusion, I forgot to check what number follower the mags are, so we'll see.

I've got a few boxes of 220 gr hard cast Buffalo Bore and some assorted lighter range loads to test out initially, so I'll update when possible on the results with a recently-born Gen 4 G20 with hopefully #4 followers with the hot stuff. My fondness for Glocks has long-been based largely on their reliability in stock configurations. I've read the same upgrade tips as everyone else, but have decided to run it stock with the heaviest hard cast I can until it doesn't run or shoot straight and then go from there.

[GunBugBit]

I haven't yet checked whether my Gen 4 G20 has the #4 followers, nor when the test round was fired, but I have a note to myself to do that. With 180gr Hyperclean FMJ, functioning is 100% with all-stock parts and also with a Glockmeister 24-lb recoil spring assembly. Some 180gr Underwood ammo recently arrived at my door, advertised to fire at 1300 fps out of a 4.6" Glock barrel. Underwood has a good reputation for delivering the bullet speeds they advertise. I'll report back after I fire some of that stuff with both recoil spring assemblies.

[mayonaise]

If you're running super hot loads like BB and Underwood your issue is likely slide speed and not the followers. You may want to look at aftermarket heavier recoil systems.


Sent from Tapatalk

[PD Sgt.]

As an update, I received my #4 followers and installed 2 in mags for my G29. Both these mags have +0 Pearce finger extensions. I also brought a magazine with a #3 follower I had sanded down the pad on (until the number 3 was no longer visible) as well as a flat floorplate mag that has never given me trouble.

I had a limited supply of 180g Privy hollow point ammo with me. I ran 50 rounds through the two mags with the new followers loading 5 at a time. There were no premature lockbacks with either magazine. Both of these mags had consistently locked back with one round remaining with the old followers. Both of the other mags had 25 rounds each run through in groups of 5 as well with no problems.

With the limited rounds I had available the number 4 followers seemed to work to correct the lockback problem. With less certainty I would say sanding down the area that engages the slide catch (the area the number 3 is visible on) just until the number disappears also seems to solve the problem. If I could not get the new followers this would be my solution.

My next tests will be with 175g Silvertips and some Federal stuff I have around here somewhere.

[WitchDoctor02]

I finally got a chance to get to the range with the new 100% stock Gen 4 G20 and an assortment of ammo. Between three 15-round mags with #4 followers, shot just over 200 rounds: 50x 180 gr Federal FMJ, 100x 180 gr Sig Performance FMJ, 40x 180 gr Hornady XTP Custom, and 40x 220 gr Buffalo Bore Hard Cast. Loaded mags with 2, 5, 10, and 15 rounds intermittently. Zero malfunctions and no early slide locks.

Ran a few drills including shooting from retention, strong hand, weak hand, and a couple of curve balls. Made sure to get some high thumbs in, as well, but could not induce any malfunctions even with intentional limp wristing. Not many rounds downrange yet, so time will tell, but no issues so far.

Was underwhelmed with the accuracy of the Buffalo Bore, but the Hornady stuff was a laser beam with some of the tightest groups I've ever shot. Wherever the front sight is, the round will land. Probably not the hottest stuff, but its gel tests look good and I could write a poem with it, so it will be a keeper. Will check out the Underwood hard cast and some of their hotter FMJ and XTP stuff next

Need to decide on some replacement sights (probably Hackathorns vs Trijicon HDs). The factory plastic sights with a blacked out rear required a combat hold, but were spot on, so I'll need to figure out what sights will be a close as possible. Probably Hacks, but I'm open to suggestions.

[Double3]

I have not shot my gen4 G20 a whole lot but I have had no issues. Only 10mm ammo I have is Underwood 180g and 200g.





Need to decide on some replacement sights (probably Hackathorns vs Trijicon HDs). The factory plastic sights with a blacked out rear required a combat hold, but were spot on, so I'll need to figure out what sights will be a close as possible. Probably Hacks, but I'm open to suggestions.
Mine wears Hacks.

[G19A3]

I finally got a chance to get to the range with the new 100% stock Gen 4 G20 and an assortment of ammo. Between three 15-round mags with #4 followers, shot just over 200 rounds: 50x 180 gr Federal FMJ, 100x 180 gr Sig Performance FMJ, 40x 180 gr Hornady XTP Custom, and 40x 220 gr Buffalo Bore Hard Cast. Loaded mags with 2, 5, 10, and 15 rounds intermittently. Zero malfunctions and no early slide locks.

Ran a few drills including shooting from retention, strong hand, weak hand, and a couple of curve balls. Made sure to get some high thumbs in, as well, but could not induce any malfunctions even with intentional limp wristing. Not many rounds downrange yet, so time will tell, but no issues so far.

Was underwhelmed with the accuracy of the Buffalo Bore, but the Hornady stuff was a laser beam with some of the tightest groups I've ever shot. Wherever the front sight is, the round will land. Probably not the hottest stuff, but its gel tests look good and I could write a poem with it, so it will be a keeper. Will check out the Underwood hard cast and some of their hotter FMJ and XTP stuff next

Need to decide on some replacement sights (probably Hackathorns vs Trijicon HDs). The factory plastic sights with a blacked out rear required a combat hold, but were spot on, so I'll need to figure out what sights will be a close as possible. Probably Hacks, but I'm open to suggestions.

Great update! Still watching this thread with extreme interest before having total confidence in acquiring a new G20 Gen4. Especially updates with super heavy loads (BB, Underwood, etc in the 220+grains).

[ruddyhair]

Yes, great update. I too really would like to add a gen 4 g20 to the stable. I'd like to think most people never have a problem and obviously never post an issue.

[Flankenstein]

I have not shot my gen4 G20 a whole lot but I have had no issues. Only 10mm ammo I have is Underwood 180g and 200g.


Same.

[WitchDoctor02]

Another update now that I've run a few hundred more rounds through the Gen 4 G20 - stock except for Vickers mag release, grip plug, and Trijicon HDs. I also picked up a couple of extra mags, which also had #4 followers. I've run everything from .40 S&W shot shell (hand cycle) to practically every 180 gr FMJ range ammo, and hundreds of rounds of 180 gr XTP and 220 gr hard cast. Given what we've discussed in this thread, and what I've seen around other forums lately, it seems that the #4 followers have alleviated the issue for Gen 3 and Gen 4 G20s. If someone still has the malfunctions with #4 followers, I'd be interested in hearing about it. For now, it seems that the premature slide lock is not something one has to live with.

I did read that someone just picked up a G20 that sill had #3 followers included, so it is worth checking before buying. I've looked at every G20 mag I've seen in any shops around here and they're all #4. As of this week, Glock is reportedly still in the business of sending replacement #4 followers to those who ask, so give it a shot if you have older ones.

I have run several hundred rounds of hot Buffalo Bore and hot Underwood now - mostly 220 gr hard cast to test for woods carry. As mentioned before, the Buffalo Bore was not stunningly accurate for me. No keyholing, but I was starting to think it was bear-seeking ammo, as I could hardly get it on the paper of a 25y B-16 pistol target (at 25m). Even at 10m, it was unimpressive for me. I imagine there are about 11 dead bears in the woods right now, accounting for the mysteriously missing holes in the paper over a couple sessions.

The 180 gr Hornady factory XTP load was and remains a laser beam, so I wondered if my wheels were falling off by stepping up to the big boy round. Around round #50 of BB 220 gr, I had a FTF with the nose hanging up on the hood (I think). Unfortunately, I instinctively cleared it and continued the string, so I didn't get a good look at the malfunction. I had wanted to hold onto the rest of the BB for woods carry, but a malfunction on the last fam fire round is not confidence inspiring, especially with paper-sized groups. The rest of the Buffalo Bore ran as well as the first 49 rounds, and equally accurate - empirically schizophrenic.

Underwood told me over the phone that they use Bar Sto semi fit barrels in their G20s, or KKM second to Bar Sto and 'officially' recommended I swap out the barrel as well as go to a #22 spring from Glockstore before running the hard cast. My Underwood order came in, and I decided to run the 220 gr hard cast with the stock barrel and spring before messing with the will of Glock reliability fairies. Glad I did, as the Underwood hard cast groups make me look like a far better shot than I am. Same sized groups as the Hornady 180 gr XTP at ranges from 3 to 25m, which is to say more accurate than I can shoot, but I can really mess up an index card with it.

Subjectively, I think the Underwood has a bit more felt recoil than the Buffalo Bore, but very manageable for fast follow ups/strings. Also seemed to be a bit less smokey than the Buffalo Bore, which reminded me of shooting black powder on a couple of occasions. I don't have calipers handy, but eyeballing it, the Underwood seems to have a slightly narrower meplat compared to the Buffalo Bore, which may help with feeding. Shot up all of the Underwood out of an abundance of caution in testing, and have some more on hand now to carry.

All in all, I could not be happier with the accuracy, feeding, and recoil of the Underwood hard cast for dangerous animals and the Hornady 180 gr XTP for dangerous people. I've about broken the bank proofing the carry loads, but feel reasonably confident with their performance in my particular stock Gen 4 Glock 20. Still need to run the 200 gr XTP loads as prospective small-medium sized game hunting round, and definitely time to start reloading, so I may have more to report in the future.

[G19A3]

Another update now that I've run a few hundred more rounds through the Gen 4 G20 - stock except for Vickers mag release, grip plug, and Trijicon HDs. I also picked up a couple of extra mags, which also had #4 followers. I've run everything from .40 S&W shot shell (hand cycle) to practically every 180 gr FMJ range ammo, and hundreds of rounds of 180 gr XTP and 220 gr hard cast. Given what we've discussed in this thread, and what I've seen around other forums lately, it seems that the #4 followers have alleviated the issue for Gen 3 and Gen 4 G20s. If someone still has the malfunctions with #4 followers, I'd be interested in hearing about it. For now, it seems that the premature slide lock is not something one has to live with.

I did read that someone just picked up a G20 that sill had #3 followers included, so it is worth checking before buying. I've looked at every G20 mag I've seen in any shops around here and they're all #4. As of this week, Glock is reportedly still in the business of sending replacement #4 followers to those who ask, so give it a shot if you have older ones.

I have run several hundred rounds of hot Buffalo Bore and hot Underwood now - mostly 220 gr hard cast to test for woods carry. As mentioned before, the Buffalo Bore was not stunningly accurate for me. No keyholing, but I was starting to think it was bear-seeking ammo, as I could hardly get it on the paper of a 25y B-16 pistol target (at 25m). Even at 10m, it was unimpressive for me. I imagine there are about 11 dead bears in the woods right now, accounting for the mysteriously missing holes in the paper over a couple sessions.

The 180 gr Hornady factory XTP load was and remains a laser beam, so I wondered if my wheels were falling off by stepping up to the big boy round. Around round #50 of BB 220 gr, I had a FTF with the nose hanging up on the hood (I think). Unfortunately, I instinctively cleared it and continued the string, so I didn't get a good look at the malfunction. I had wanted to hold onto the rest of the BB for woods carry, but a malfunction on the last fam fire round is not confidence inspiring, especially with paper-sized groups. The rest of the Buffalo Bore ran as well as the first 49 rounds, and equally accurate - empirically schizophrenic.

Underwood told me over the phone that they use Bar Sto semi fit barrels in their G20s, or KKM second to Bar Sto and 'officially' recommended I swap out the barrel as well as go to a #22 spring from Glockstore before running the hard cast. My Underwood order came in, and I decided to run the 220 gr hard cast with the stock barrel and spring before messing with the will of Glock reliability fairies. Glad I did, as the Underwood hard cast groups make me look like a far better shot than I am. Same sized groups as the Hornady 180 gr XTP at ranges from 3 to 25m, which is to say more accurate than I can shoot, but I can really mess up an index card with it.

Subjectively, I think the Underwood has a bit more felt recoil than the Buffalo Bore, but very manageable for fast follow ups/strings. Also seemed to be a bit less smokey than the Buffalo Bore, which reminded me of shooting black powder on a couple of occasions. I don't have calipers handy, but eyeballing it, the Underwood seems to have a slightly narrower meplat compared to the Buffalo Bore, which may help with feeding. Shot up all of the Underwood out of an abundance of caution in testing, and have some more on hand now to carry.

All in all, I could not be happier with the accuracy, feeding, and recoil of the Underwood hard cast for dangerous animals and the Hornady 180 gr XTP for dangerous people. I've about broken the bank proofing the carry loads, but feel reasonably confident with their performance in my particular stock Gen 4 Glock 20. Still need to run the 200 gr XTP loads as prospective small-medium sized game hunting round, and definitely time to start reloading, so I may have more to report in the future.

WOW, thanks for the detailed update. I keep a keen interest for your G20-Gen4 updates. In particular, I really appreciate your expenditure on the pricey heavy loads, and would love to donate some $$$ to your testing. Unfortunately, I'm an old, cheap bastage.

Please keep up the good work and I look forward to your updates (especially on the 220+gr. loads....hint, hint)

[WitchDoctor02]

Thanks for the encouragement. Let me know if you ever become frivolous - I'll be sure to help you fund my shooting! I just ordered some more Underwood, but is there something in particular that you think I should run? I haven't started reloading 10mm yet, but hope to this fall when baby and dissertation work balance out better. I don't think I will be trying to push my non-existent 10mm loading skill too soon with nuclear+ loads.

The only heavier factory load that comes to mind that I haven't run is Double Tap's 230gr hard cast - though Hickok45's experience with tumbling in the factory barrel and Double Tap's consistent discrepancies in velocity have led me to pretty much discount them. I will run a bit more of the Underwood in 200 gr XTP and 220 gr hard cast here next, but am definitely open to trying some stuff out. I will likely grab a 4.6" or 6"KKM at some point down the road just for throwing a lot of lead downrange, but planning on sticking to the stock barrel for carry.