View Full Version : Lubrication and the 1911
A while back I got a Colt .38 Super Auto. I had always wanted one, don't know why, just because. I got a decent deal on it and intended it for a range/competition piece. I never wanted to heavily modify it, no race guns here just practical modifications to make it better suit my needs. So a new set of sights, a slightly extended mag release and a modest bevel of sharp edges with refinish is as far as I went.
I was impressed with it's accuracy and smooth function. It also was reliable with my initial reloads and factory stuff. So I decided to do an extended round count test. Since I was using Froglube I lubed it up before testing. It ran gang busters to about 750 rounds then began to experience failure to go into battery. I thought maybe my loads were a little weak along with a weak recoil spring. So I increased the power level of my loads and replaced the RC with a factory standard #14 [I had been using a #9]. Now at about 1000 rounds it is getting sluggish return to battery once again. The lube has become a pasty consistency and I think slowing down the slide return stroke.
My gunsmith once a fan of Froglube is no longer and recommends a return to more conventional lubricants. I was trying to get to 2000 rounds but I may have to clean the pistol and try again with traditional lube. I used to use Enos Slide Glide and Mobil 1.
Anybody else have a similar experience with Froglube or other lubricants? I realize a 1911 is a more lubrication sensitive design compared to modern pistols.
I have heard the same about Froglube turning gummy. They have changed their formulation to either a plant or vegetable based product and it is failing to perform as it once did. They have screwed up a good thing. If you look at their instructions you must now use their solvent prior to applying Froglube and during the winter or long term storage (WTF!).
I have an old series 70 and an Ed Brown. The series 70 is very finicky on lubes. I have tried and like the Seal-1 stuff http://www.seal1.net. It is way better than even the original Froglube once was. It is a true CLP. No other degreasers, solvents, oil or grease is needed. It's the only product I use now.
Froglube gets gummy after a while, as does FireCLEAN. For 1911s I've started to use Wilson Ultima Lube II on the rails, and FireCLEAN to clean and lubricate everything else. The Wilson grease smoothes .45 recoil impulse and makes for flawless function even in temperatures hovering around freezing. I used to use FireCLEAN exclusively but found it to be too thin to adequately lubricate the full rails on my 1911s.
That's what I like about the Seal-1 product. I don't need one product for this and one for that. I clean it, wipe if off and it's good to go. If you conceal carry and sweat, it also prevents corrosion. I save time & money. All things that are better spent on shooting!
Fireclean was ok. It was pricey. I stuck the series 70 in the freezer for 48 hours (unloaded) with a treatment of Seal-1. Operated flawlessly.
I use Break Free and SLP on everything and have not had any issues attributed to lube on anything form 20-95 degrees.
I am most interested in extended round count testing. Which lube and how much should be applied? Like my AR I run my 1911 wet, maybe I shouldn't?
I find the right amount in the right places and things run fine the type of lube is immaterial. I am not a cleaning nazi but would not lube a gun ad see if it can go 2000 rounds between cleaning or relubrication. Just no need to. My current -911's run great but after every few hundred rounds lube the critical points. Not dripping wet, maybe 8-10 drops to lube the whe gun.like many other things it is not what you use but how you use it
I use Slip 2000 EWL. Works great, doesn't gum up and is minimally affected by temperature extremes. Just keep it lubed and don't run it dry. Any regular gun oil will work just fine but it will dry up quicker then specialized lubricants.
Nightstalker865
03-30-15, 10:12
This thread is interesting as I've noticed my WC CQB-E feeling gummy on FireClean. The gun runs flawlessly, but I've wondered why the resistance compared to everything else I use FireClean on.
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I've been told by others/experienced first hand that with FireCLEAN if you store firearms with it accumulated on the metal then the product gums up. The simple fix that I was told to use was to effectively wipe the gun dry of you're storing it for extended periods of time.
RVTMaverick
03-30-15, 14:48
I have NEVER used a "Gun brand oil/lubicant"...
FWIW: & FYI:
What I've used for the last 8+yrs is ZMAX, the reason why is because it is "Supposed to Soak into the metal" Interesting thing is, (well to me anyhow is)
I've Never had an gun oil issue and my Slides, My Slides operate so smooth, I have to LOL sometimes because they feel like they are on Roller Bearings!!!!
Now, shooting as long as I can without cleaning and lube.... The thought has never entered my mind... I do however Love seeing how these thing go for other folks, it's just as much as I shoot, some of you guys BLAST away in a month what I'll shoot in a year. (^_-)
ZMAX is he ONLY lube I've used on any and ALL my Handguns, Rifles & Shotguns and I have never seen any of them getting gummy!
So hey, 19852.... Think about it ej,... Maybe give your gun(s) a try with some ZMAX, just clean it real good first of the other lubes..? I would love to hear how it works for someone who Shoots ALOT!
Peace Jeff
Froglube is pure trash, never been around Fireclean.
I've been using Slip 2000 EWL and EWL 30 for a few years (on all handguns and ARs) and it has been fine in everything from mid 20's to about 110. I never have to clean it off and it does not gel or gum up even when stored in a non climate controlled storage container.
If I didn't have access to Slip, Automatic transmission fluid and Lubriplate #105 engine assembly lube would be my second choice.
Been running Slip 2K on my TRP, as well as everything else, for quite some time now with no issues either shooting or storing with it. Have not used Fireclean and only have experience with Frog lube through a friend who has not had any issue with it in his AR. Personally don't see need to switch from Slip though, it has worked, relatively cheap and I have enough to last me probably six years or more at the moment.
I used to use Slip and it worked well but dried out faster than I liked. I've been using Fireclean for at least a year with great results, to include on my 1911. All of my guns had a high round count firing session, had lubed poured on them, and then sat from May to November. They were still well-lubed without gumming or rust or anything else bad.
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This thread is interesting as I've noticed my WC CQB-E feeling gummy on FireClean. The gun runs flawlessly, but I've wondered why the resistance compared to everything else I use FireClean on.
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CQB-E here in 9mm. At the range this Saturday it started feeling slugglish after 50 rounds and not feeding properly. I could feel it also while manually racking the slide. Disassembled it and lubed (again) with Lucas extreme duty gun oil. Worked fine for the rest of the day. Gave it a thorough cleaning when I got home.
I'm using Fireclean on my AR's but still use FP10 or Slip 2000 and EWL on 1911's and other handguns.
I use Slip 2000 EWL in my guns, works great.
I think I will buy another bottle just in case they change the formula.
On the advice of Steve Morrison at Mars Armament, I just started using 30 weight moble one.
Prior to that I was using Break free on small parts and grease on the rails.
Trigger and trigger track dry. Just a tiny bit on the back of the trigger where it contacts.
No lube on firing pin and tunnel.
I read the instructions and have never had a problem with frog lube, I love the stuff
MSparks909
03-30-15, 20:57
I've used FireCLEAN, Slip2000, Breakfree CLP and M-Pro7 on my guns. I like FC the best, but found it to be pretty "runny," especially on my 1911. I am currently giving the Lucas Extreme a Duty Gun Oil a try. I really like this stuff so far! Stays where you put it and a little goes a long way. It all doesn't run all over the gun after it's been shot a bunch.
ThirdWatcher
03-31-15, 04:04
I got rid of my Froglube after it gummed up one of my 1911's (hard to pull the slide back). I've had good luck with Militec-1.
FWIW: & FYI:
What I've used for the last 8+yrs is ZMAX, the reason why is because it is "Supposed to Soak into the metal" Interesting thing is, (well to me anyhow is)
Must be the linkite.
I got rid of my Froglube after it gummed up one of my 1911's (hard to pull the slide back). I've had good luck with Militec-1.
I got rid of mine after my AR grew mold in the BCG.
I got rid of mine after my AR grew mold in the BCG.
Dang, mold?
I cleaned my Super yesterday. At least Froglube is easy to clean up. Most of the gum wiped off and I went back to my nasty, noxious cleaning chemicals.. In the garage. Reassembled with some of my old Enos Slide Glide on the rails and my old supply of Mobile 1. I also used some G96 in some tight places. It may be a while until I go as far as 1000 rounds again since I got my S&W 686 back from my gunsmith.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-31-15, 09:17
On all other firearms, I use Slip200 EWL. On my 1911, I have been using the Wilson Combat Ultimalube Oil to great effect. It has a surprising viscosity and does not burn off after high round counts.
Dollar-plus-per-ounce products are entirely unnecessary when there is synthetic motor oil and automatic transmission fluid available in vast quantities at much lower prices. Shoot more and think less about, spend less on, boutique lubes.
RVTMaverick
03-31-15, 11:49
Dollar-plus-per-ounce products are entirely unnecessary when there is synthetic motor oil and automatic transmission fluid available in vast quantities at much lower prices. Shoot more and think less about, spend less on, boutique lubes.
BOOM /\ /\ what he said.. :cool:
1 last thing/tid bit from me on this... IF I wasn't using my ZMAX I would be running my guns on the LUCAS engine oil additive, that stuff is So Super SLICK!
Also, STP engine additive is alittle thicker, okay ALOT thicker then engine oil, which just means you can get away with using small amounts.... and it will stay in place, not to mention it also is some SUPER SLICK stuff!
This will give away my age to some:
How many here remember the STP engine oil treatment TV commercials, where they stuck the tip of a flat blade screw driver into the STP additive and then flipped the screw driver over vertical, trying
to hold onto said screw driver with their finger tips? LOL NO one could ever hold the screw driver! :D Well LUCAS additive is like that.....
I think I would try 1 of those long before ATF and or regular engine oil.. ;)
Peace Jeff
Lucas would be way too thick and snotty. That stuff is a PITA to clean up too.
I like Slip 2000 EWL because it doesn't smell, stain, and stays good in heat, cold, and long term storage.
I have a couple of 1911s that have worked very reliably for maany thousands of rounds (2500+ rounds between stoppages) with simple cleaning every 250-300 rounds and oiling with any light machine oil I can get (Singer, any cheap gun oil, motor oil, etc.). No early wear in parts, no problems with finish, no sluggish operation, etc.
People worry too much about this :D
Slip 2000 ewl here. Still working off of samples handed out at EAG classes
Dang, mold?
I cleaned my Super yesterday. At least Froglube is easy to clean up. Most of the gum wiped off and I went back to my nasty, noxious cleaning chemicals.. In the garage. Reassembled with some of my old Enos Slide Glide on the rails and my old supply of Mobile 1. I also used some G96 in some tight places. It may be a while until I go as far as 1000 rounds again since I got my S&W 686 back from my gunsmith.
Yeah, supposedly they've changed their formulation to fix the mold issue. I wish I'd taken pics of it.
EDIT: Here's someone that had the same issue with a pistol:
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=413342
Cleaning my AR today! No mold for me...
How many here remember the STP engine oil treatment TV commercials, where they stuck the tip of a flat blade screw driver into the STP additive and then flipped the screw driver over vertical, trying
to hold onto said screw driver with their finger tips? LOL NO one could ever hold the screw driver.....
Yep - Andy Granatelli!!!!! Oops - now I'm giving away my age:) - john
How many here remember the STP engine oil treatment TV commercials, where they stuck the tip of a flat blade screw driver into the STP additive and then flipped the screw driver over vertical, trying
to hold onto said screw driver with their finger tips? LOL NO one could ever hold the screw driver.....
Yep - Andy Granatelli!!!!! Oops - now I'm giving away my age:) - john
Yeah, that's way before my time. :)
Meh. Keep it wet with whatever you want.
If it's a tight match gun, especially in 9mm, use oil.
If it's a service grade gun, white grease or similar. Wilson's Ultama works great. I have a bunch, and that's what I use.
Anything will work, I like stuff that doesn't stink.
I'm away from home and I just had to (very lightly) lube the P2000 I'm carrying with Chevron ATF. It stinks. I need a bottle of Slip in my carry bag....
Meh. Keep it wet with whatever you want.
If it's a tight match gun, especially in 9mm, use oil.
If it's a service grade gun, white grease or similar. Wilson's Ultama works great. I have a bunch, and that's what I use.
This would be sound advice. For oil, I use Mobil 1 synthetic in whatever weight I used when I changed the oil in my zero turn mower.
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