View Full Version : AK Woes
So I picked up a Wasr-10. Got it sub $400 this week. Came with a tapco 30rd, unnamed 40rd and two unnamed 20s. The unnamed 20s feed three then misfeed, and compared to the tapco, the cut out where the bolt passes is very shallow, bingo. The tapco had two misfeeds but ran fairly well despite. The 40 ran flawlessly.
I have never handled an ak until I bought this one. Build quality sucks! Looks like a tin can with plywood and a barrel. Does that sum up most ak variants? My ar is bottom barrel and I guess it's like an apples to oranges?
Seems like a lot of info is scattered about on these guns. Tips or tricks suggested? Picked up two romanian steel 30 rounders yesterday and haven't run it yet.
Gun did come with a utg rail with covers and a utg 6 position stock kit which I care very little for
As with ARs not all AKs are created equal. There are some horrible POSs out there, and some which are ****ing sweeting rifles. I am being dead honest, an Arsenal AK is like a BCM to a DPMS. The WASRs are kind of what I equate to a DPMS in regards to AKs. Not that they can't shoot, or won't shoot, but if you are buying sight unseen, or don't know what to look for I feel they are not worth the hassle. That is my opinion of them, I will admit to not caring for CAI rifles at all, have had several leave a bad taste in my mouth so I may be a bit bias.
As far as the UTG stuff, I tend to consider it to be junk, and to me, would consider just ditching it, selling or trading it, and slapping on just stock factory wood furniture. For a range rifle I don't need a rail or anything, and if I do get to where I want to mount stuff there are better options anyway.
I'm gonna list the utg stuff and the mags with accurate descriptions once my post count is up. It's using the wood now but has a fab defense grip that I hate so I picked up a '74 brake, surplus style sling, bakelite grip and a new grip screw and t bolt. I figure that'll level the playing ground to get me comfortable and familiar.
Yeah my cousin has an arsenal. I had a dpms ap4 that ran great. My current ar is an Anderson lower and a palmetto state lower and has seen plenty of range and woods use without a hiccup.
I don't trust the Wasr just yet. I'd take my ar to the end of the world though.
Future mod is a gg&g 30mm mount and a primary arms classic 30mm until I can afford better.
SpeedRacer
04-05-15, 19:05
To put it in perspective, imagine the cheapest, most bottom barrel AR you could scrape together, as if you were trying to win a "who can build the cheapest AR" contest. You have the equivalent in an AK. That said, the Romanian parts themselves are not terrible and a majority of the poor quality comes from the assembly. But don't lose hope. WASRs can and do typically run well once fed with decent mags (which it sounds like you already got) and have some rounds through them. And once they work right they work right for a long long time. It may never be smooth or accurate, but it'll work.
That's what I figured. First 4 numbers on front trunnion are 1985 which I assume is the date of the original manufacture before being demilled and reassembled as a wasr 10. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The gun looked crude of most crude build quality. I feel that my ar is a bottom tier being Anderson and palmetto state, but not like a sportical or something of that nature. I don't have top tier money.
That being said, I did enjoy the rifle and I believe it will serve well for a close quarters hog hunter, once I trust it.
Speaking of smooth, bolt has a little rough spot all the way back and 1/2" moving forward if held at an angle.
Oh by the way, me and a buddy are starting a cheapest got it on eBay ar contest, no more than 18" and under 650 including optics, best 3 shot group out of 10@100yards. Just two guys who love guns seeing what the cheapest we can build that's actually accurate.
I would not necessarily equate a WASR to a DPMS. WASRs have properly heat treated receivers, generally solid parts, and CHF CL barrels, making them closely aligned with a MILSPEC weapon. Today their QC is better and they have better mag wells. All come with TAPCO G2 triggers. The laminate furniture is also more aligned with MILSPEC than the newer versions. Many AK shooters like them better than US made guns which have "better fit and finish".
SpeedRacer
04-05-15, 19:26
I would not necessarily equate a WASR to a DPMS. WASRs have properly heat treated receivers, generally solid parts, and CHF CL barrels, making them closely aligned with a MILSPEC weapon. Today their QC is better and they have better mag wells. All come with TAPCO G2 triggers. The laminate furniture is also more aligned with MILSPEC than the newer versions. Many AK shooters like them better than US made guns which have "better fit and finish".
I have heard decent reports on the newer stuff. However, I'm assuming the OP got his used from who knows what vintage.
Have you shot it yet? My WASR looked like stir-fried dog sh!t, but ran like a champ. Good range trip will tell you if its worth keeping (even if it's just for a beater/truck gun), or needs to be sold in potential '16 gun & ammo scare.
Have you shot it yet? My WASR looked like stir-fried dog sh!t, but ran like a champ. Good range trip will tell you if its worth keeping (even if it's just for a beater/truck gun), or needs to be sold in potential '16 gun & ammo scare.
Yes, just had some magazine issues but now have a few romanian ones. The pistol grip was loose (fab defense mall ninja) so I have a sleu of parts coming to secure this as factory as it should be so I can form an opinion.
Speed, are you implying this dude dumped it on me? $350 isn't quite a bad price but he did seem a little gun-prude.
I'll be glad to post pics tomorrow after a good cleaning and I get my grip on. I'm embarrassed by the grip it has. Literally I feel like I need a Korn shirt and some black baggy denim with chains hanging off them
SpeedRacer
04-05-15, 20:02
Speed, are you implying this dude dumped it on me? $350 isn't quite a bad price but he did seem a little gun-prude.
Not at all. WASRs haven't been that cheap for almost 10 years, so I'd say you got a hell of a deal. Even better if you can sell of the UTG junk. I'd guess he bought it, had trouble with it using crappy mags, and sold it cheap *thinking* he dumped off a problematic rifle. I'm betting some quality surplus mags will fix the issue, and even if not it won't take much tweaking to get it 100%.
Not at all. WASRs haven't been that cheap for almost 10 years, so I'd say you got a hell of a deal. Even better if you can sell of the UTG junk. I'd guess he bought it, had trouble with it using crappy mags, and sold it cheap *thinking* he dumped off a problematic rifle. I'm betting some quality surplus mags will fix the issue, and even if not it won't take much tweaking to get it 100%.
I happened to luck up. Same happened on my lever gun. It was actually missing the ejector spring so it wouldn't throw shells. I got one for 6.99 shipped on eBay.If I can get 100 for the utg stuff and mags that someone may be able to make work (I'm sure I could but I just don't want to fool with them) than I'm g2g on my red dot mount easy. Hopefully these surplus mags will run good this week. I have until May 9 to prove it out as reliable for the next pig hunt.
Oh and Lunchbox, Can I get a Roll Tide?
I would not necessarily equate a WASR to a DPMS. WASRs have properly heat treated receivers, generally solid parts, and CHF CL barrels, making them closely aligned with a MILSPEC weapon. Today their QC is better and they have better mag wells. All come with TAPCO G2 triggers. The laminate furniture is also more aligned with MILSPEC than the newer versions. Many AK shooters like them better than US made guns which have "better fit and finish".
^^^This. There may be build issues, but I doubt there is a parts problem. I have had a few in the shop that while they looked rough, were extremely accurate for the platform...I would give it a chance.
Oh and Lunchbox, Can I get a Roll Tide?
War! Damn! Eagle!
^^^This. There may be build issues, but I doubt there is a parts problem. I have had a few in the shop that while they looked rough, were extremely accurate for the platform...I would give it a chance.
My view on the U.S. guns on a tighter fit and finish take away from the whole AK loose and sloppy reliability. If I want a tight fit and accurate gun, I have my AR. I wanted an ak for the simple fact of itll run no matter what. What I'm bitching about is probably the average quality of production they were actually produced at for military use. I should probably get over myself.
We shall see about the damned ole eagle that WT keeps mentioning.
Oh and Lunchbox, Can I get a Roll Tide?Roll over tide, War Damn Eagle! :)
Roll over tide, War Damn Eagle! :)
Roll over that damn eagle, again :)
WASRs seem to be better than they used to be. I got one after looking over about a dozen examples to make sure I got a good one with straight sights, good rivets, smooth action.
When you get a good one, it'll most likely perform well but you'll have to hunt for it.
The fighting carbine ak edition stickies thread has so much useful info and has my thinking totally revamped on my course of action on this rifle. I use a vcas on my ar carbine and has my gears turning on the red dot and irons
HardToHandle
04-05-15, 22:42
WASRs seem to be better than they used to be. I got one after looking over about a dozen examples to make sure I got a good one with straight sights, good rivets, smooth action.
When you get a good one, it'll most likely perform well but you'll have to hunt for it.
I agree. I looked for months and got a pretty smooth WASR. A little due diligence goes a long ways... When I was looking, Front sight cant removed two thirds from consideration.
So I picked up a Wasr-10. Got it sub $400 this week. Came with a tapco 30rd, unnamed 40rd and two unnamed 20s. The unnamed 20s feed three then misfeed, and compared to the tapco, the cut out where the bolt passes is very shallow, bingo. The tapco had two misfeeds but ran fairly well despite. The 40 ran flawlessly.
Ditch the mags you have, get the 10-pack of European steel mags from SGAmmo.
I have never handled an ak until I bought this one. Build quality sucks! Looks like a tin can with plywood and a barrel. Does that sum up most ak variants?
Depends, most AK's are stamped receivers.... if that's what gives you the tin can feel, then a milled is the only thing that'll help. If the shit finish on the WASR is what you don't like, then no, not all AK's feel like that. Look at an Arsenal or Kreb's... They're quite a bit nicer to handle than a WASR or N-PAP.
My ar is bottom barrel and I guess it's like an apples to oranges?
Eh, not really. A bottom barrel AR will work for a while, and then it's guaranteed that something will break. A top tier AR will work a lot longer, and it's expected that something will eventually break. Same goes for AK's, except there's not as much to break on them. The AK design just doesn't have much that's likely to break, as long as it's made properly. The Romanians got the design right, Century used to assemble the parts kits and machine the mag well poorly, but they're much nicer now. If you get a good WASR, it's a good AK. They have a CHF Chrome-lined barrel, pinned FSB and GB (although sometimes canted, it's fixable), properly heat-treated receivers, good rivet jobs, and are reasonably faithful to the AKM design. Really, their biggest problem is they just feel and look like shit. If you want to see a bottom of the barrel AK, look at any number of home builds on poorly heat-treated receivers using bolts instead of rivets... If they last long enough for you to catch a glimpse. The WASR is more of a mid level AK, in all honesty.
Gun did come with a utg rail with covers and a utg 6 position stock kit which I care very little for
Sell the furniture, get a K-Var US-made stock and handguard set, and shoot the hell out of it. If you need to mount a light and an optic, then an Ultimak or RS Regulate parts get my vote.
Ditch the mags you got...
...Sell the furniture, get a K-Var US-made stock and handguard set, and shoot the hell out of it. If you need to mount a light and an optic, then an Ultimak or RS Regulate parts get my vote.
Yeah, I like the ultimak gas tube rail. Will look into the k-var stuff. Figured I could try some of the stuff in the fighting carbine thread
Yeah, I like the ultimak gas tube rail. Will look into the k-var stuff. Figured I could try some of the stuff in the fighting carbine thread
All the stuff in that thread is solid, and Ultimak is a top-notch company with great customer service, in my experience. I'll also add that Magpul's furniture should be shipping any day now, which will offer a more modern feature set.
A WASR with the right parts is as good a fighting rifle as just about any other AK.
And you're right about the fighting rifle which is what I'm going for. Something I can trust and bang around and not think twice about rolling my tactically padded ass down some gulley and it still be in working condition.
Side note that may get me banned: I loathe Magpul.
Just won a GG&G universal sling mount for less than $13, so things are moving right along.
And you're right about the fighting rifle which is what I'm going for. Something I can trust and bang around and not think twice about rolling my tactically padded ass down some gulley and it still be in working condition.
Side note that may get me banned: I loathe Magpul.
Reported. :D
So I picked up a Wasr-10. Got it sub $400 this week. Came with a tapco 30rd, unnamed 40rd and two unnamed 20s. The unnamed 20s feed three then misfeed, and compared to the tapco, the cut out where the bolt passes is very shallow, bingo. The tapco had two misfeeds but ran fairly well despite. The 40 ran flawlessly.
I have never handled an ak until I bought this one. Build quality sucks! Looks like a tin can with plywood and a barrel. Does that sum up most ak variants? My ar is bottom barrel and I guess it's like an apples to oranges?
Seems like a lot of info is scattered about on these guns. Tips or tricks suggested? Picked up two romanian steel 30 rounders yesterday and haven't run it yet.
Gun did come with a utg rail with covers and a utg 6 position stock kit which I care very little for
New to the AK world eh?
You have a lot to learn my friend. A few to note:
Not all AK's (and AK mags) are created equal. There are crappy AK's and mags, and there are excellent AK's/mags. WASR's are known for cheap price/quality, but many of them may work just fine. I had a WASR10 as my first AK also. Work just fine but quality was crap. Never had an issue with it and sold it a few months after to upgrade to a better AK.
Tapco mags and other non-quality mags may give you issues. Stick with surplus steel mags or Circle10/Bulgarian mags. You may have to pay more, but they are worth it.
Once you are ready or able to afford a better AK, look at Arsenal or a properly-converted Saiga AK.
New to the AK world eh?
You have a lot to learn my friend. A few to note:
Not all AK's (and AK mags) are created equal. There are crappy AK's and mags, and there are excellent AK's/mags. WASR's are known for cheap price/quality, but many of them may work just fine. I had a WASR10 as my first AK also. Work just fine but quality was crap. Never had an issue with it and sold it a few months after to upgrade to a better AK.
Tapco mags and other non-quality mags may give you issues. Stick with surplus steel mags or Circle10/Bulgarian mags. You may have to pay more, but they are worth it.
Once you are ready or able to afford a better AK, look at Arsenal or a properly-converted Saiga AK.
Yeah I'm new to them. I'm really teetering btw ak and ar. Love them both but we all have our own loyalties. I'm breaking down my close quarters ar to turn it into an spr and move the wasr into the close quarters/fighting gun category.
Berserkr556
04-07-15, 21:02
Century used to assemble the parts kits and machine the mag well poorly, but they're much nicer now.
Century has never assembled the WASR rifles. Wasrs are built in Romania. Century imports them, opens the magwell and add the 922r parts.
Century has never assembled the WASR rifles. Wasrs are built in Romania. Century imports them, opens the magwell and add the 922r parts.
Noted. Point being, WASR's are rough but functional.
Noted. Point being, WASR's are rough but functional.
Taking note of all mentioned. Good info guys.
Bought a few things today. Ak vcas sling, a2 flash hider (can't be worse than the slash cut) and a tapco original style grip. I'll go run it next week and give an update to see if I like it and better after I've put a little more effort into a setup
My wasr has been flawless. They are cheap, but if assembled correctly, usually work very well. As said, go buy some good mags, circle 10 or magpul mags. I buy surplus metal ones and function check them. Mark them so you can track potential issues.
Mags are often the weakest link of any semi auto. Glocks, m9s, ars, ruger ranch rifles...
Yeah I mark my ar mags too. I think I'm going to polish the bolt carrier and restain the wood this weekend too.
Runs great and definitely more fun than my ar. Sad day to say that
7.62WildBill
04-11-15, 12:44
Runs great and definitely more fun than my ar. Sad day to say that
Don't be sad, just embrace the darkside!
I find the AK more interesting because there are so many variants from so many countries. It's a bit more of a challenge to shoot well than the AR, but for some reason I have a lot more AKs than ARs.
Posting a pic of it as it sits today.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ericksonpoe/Mobile%20Uploads/image_4.jpg
I don't care for the color but it looks like you did a good job. You gonna magpul that sucker out once the zuk line drops?
I've run A2 and three prong duckbill FH's on AKs before. They work just fine.
Eh, I'm not a magpul fan which will ultimately lead me to being banned. Looking into hogue grip, ultimak gas tube rail, rifle dynamics stock adapter and maybe a b5 bravo or a bcm stock. Need some never dull/elbow grease on the bolt carrier to get a little more shine.
Figured the color would be something different.
Don't be sad, just embrace the darkside!
I find the AK more interesting because there are so many variants from so many countries. It's a bit more of a challenge to shoot well than the AR, but for some reason I have a lot more AKs than ARs.
Same here. Ever since I got into AK's, the AR's have dwindled to a couple of rifles.
AK's are ultimately more reliable too IME. Some may disagree, but that is based on my experience.
Eh, I'm not a magpul fan which will ultimately lead me to being banned. Looking into hogue grip, ultimak gas tube rail, rifle dynamics stock adapter and maybe a b5 bravo or a bcm stock. Need some never dull/elbow grease on the bolt carrier to get a little more shine.
Figured the color would be something different.
Not everyone is a Magpul fan. They make excellent products, but if you don't like them that is your choice. I just wouldn't bash them as they are a well-respected company.
Oh I agree they have excellent R&D and turn products, but I'm not brand loyal. If it's a good deal and works, I'm all in. Some people magpul everything. My rear sight on my ar is a modified carry handle rear, co witnessing lower 1/3.
Is US PALM worth a hoot?
The US Palm is my favorite AK grip, I say go for it.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8419/15754095342_4e02893c32.jpg (https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8419/15754095342_043b24f6a5_o.jpg)
The US Palm is my favorite AK grip, I say go for it.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8419/15754095342_4e02893c32.jpg (https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8419/15754095342_043b24f6a5_o.jpg)
I think I will give it a shot
MountainRaven
04-13-15, 12:29
I, too, like the US Palm grips.
Big enough for Western paws but they still look like the belong on an AK.
I just wish they did OD green and K-var plum. (And more bakelite red/orange.)
The US Palm is my favorite AK grip, I say go for it.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8419/15754095342_4e02893c32.jpg (https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8419/15754095342_043b24f6a5_o.jpg)
Very nice.
I usually don't tacticool my AK's, but yours looks clean.
Not the best pic of my rifles, but they stay pretty much stock
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/eiji81/1%20Saiga%20AK/C8821FEA-92E4-47CE-BC8C-1D34D9707DCC.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/eiji81/media/1%20Saiga%20AK/C8821FEA-92E4-47CE-BC8C-1D34D9707DCC.jpg.html)
I also had a tacticooled Saiga 7.62 that I sold.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/eiji81/1%20Saiga%20AK/DSCI0193.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/eiji81/media/1%20Saiga%20AK/DSCI0193.jpg.html)
I like the idea of tacticool on an ak but holding one feels awkward (see if anyone takes the bait) I've got the money for the ultimak rail put aside but can't bring myself to do it yet. I'm just enjoying it as it is. I did put my Blue Force sling on tonight as well as the GG&G universal sling adapter. I can dig it
Very nice.
I usually don't tacticool my AK's, but yours looks clean.
Thanks! I recently went through a whole setup change between that Saiga and my SGL-21. Moved the Ultimak, H1, and light to my SGL, sold off the stock adapter, and put K-Var furniture plus an MOE AK grip back on the Saiga.. While I like the SGL more than the Saiga for its fit/finish, it feels like an utter pig in comparison... Moving the FSB back and using a much lighter comp works wonders in handling, and the FSC-47 is just a much, much better comp than the '74-style. I am keeping the SGL as-is, for now, but that Venom FSB/GB and FSC-47 made the rifle feel like it's from this century.
Current setups (potato quality pic):
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7718/16955702829_c4a577d836_n.jpg (https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7718/16955702829_193e0d5f9c_o.jpg)
Your rifles like good, as well. I love a 100-series rifle right out of the box, especially a factory folder (which my SGL, unfortunately, isn't).
I just wish they did OD green and K-var plum. (And more bakelite red/orange.)
Get the FDE, and you could probably dye it the color you want.
MountainRaven
04-13-15, 22:44
Wine-colored rit dye on a black grip is supposed to make it plum. I've heard that it's supposed to make them look like K-var plum, but when I did it, it looks like dark Russian plum - the sort of plum that looks black, except under some lighting conditions you can pick up bits of purple-brown along the edges.
I don't particularly like the Magpul grip, but Echo3-9 has started selling dyed MOE AK grips in bakelite orange and K-var plum.
Didn't know you could just dye a black grip. Interesting.
I'm with you on the Magpul grip, as well... I'm not really loving it myself. At this point, my two favorite grips are the US Palm and the plain old "GI" grip.
MountainRaven
04-13-15, 22:57
Like I said, didn't work out as well as I was hoping. Although perhaps it shouldn't be surprising that dying black doesn't work very well.
To my mind, the Magpul grip doesn't look like it belongs on an AK. This is made worse by the fact that they didn't design it to match up with pistol grip reinforcement plates. Aesthetic gripes, I know, but the US Palm works as well without the aesthetic issues.
It's the grip angle, and the flat front, that I just am not liking... it almost feels blocky.
I have a I.O. Inc AK circa 2007. From what I remember they had been built with some U.S. made parts(Mossberg BBL, and reciever I think) and mostly Romanian parts kits. The thing has run and run and run. Fit and finish suck compared to my old Saiga, and to this day I regret selling the Izmash built rifle. I ended up going the Tacticool route with added M.I. AK Universal rail, VFG, and Vortex Strikefire Red Dot, the CrapCo furniture came standard. Overall as much as I wanted to hate and sell this rifle sometimes I got over it. The hate came mostly because of what I had read over the years on the web about Romy AK' shotty quality. In the end I just couldn't hate her, and decided she is a keeper. She is no beauty queen but she gets points for reliability. I might be one of the lucky ones with this one. I really haven't followed I.O. Inc since purchasing this rifle, so I cant say if they have gotten better or worse. I eventually plan on getting another Russian built one if the ban is lifted, or an Arsenal. With my new found love of the Beretta ARX100 I just might skip the Arsenal.
32748
Tacticool. Traditional. Makes no difference to me. I care about how well the package performs.
From left:
OPAP w/M76 stock - M70AB2 - Modified AMD65 - SLR107CR
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae322/strangler366/Draco/1407285676_zps6bce41ef.jpg (http://s984.photobucket.com/user/strangler366/media/Draco/1407285676_zps6bce41ef.jpg.html)
The Ronin Grips "polish" grip is just a little bit bigger than Warsaw and fits the reinforcement plate well. The Yugo M70 pattern grip also is a close match. I found the US Palm jammed my hand up into the 100 series hinge. http://slrrifleworks.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=55 Might also be another workable option for you.
The WASR that I have had for about 8 years has never missed a beat. It is a Cugir.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ericksonpoe/Mobile%20Uploads/image_7.jpg
New look. Taking it hog hunting Saturday am. Hate to scratch her up!
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