Favorite Drills [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

SIMPLYDYNAMIC

07-18-06, 18:50

Hobbes, heres my basic drills to keep me up with the training is down.

I try to do 15-20minutes of dry practice a day or at least 3 times a week if im busy.

People always ask what the secret or tricks of the trade to speed and accuracy are... well I think most of us know by now that there are no tricks, its all mastering and hoaning the basic fundamentals. Shooters and instructors also get carried away with all the high speed shooting out there which is great but even the best masterclass shooters out there can never forget about the basics. there will always be high speed tactical shooting couses, compititions, combat, ect... but the real deal is what you do on your own, and if you dont, when the shit hits the fan one day you will hesitate at the molment of truth.

So I start with breaking down all the fundamentals...

Pistol

1: set up stance, Modern Isolesles. Nice and tight I shoot on the range as if I were in an actual firefight to keep my combat mindset in the game and to mimic a stressful enviornment. I am tensed and flexed up the whole time to simulate what is going to happen to me in a real fight...adrenaline, hormones, loss of all dexterity ect...
Stay in this stance through out the whole dryfire, it sucks but its worth it, and its a good workout. you should be smoked even after 20mins of dry fire like this.
anyways...
-weight on the balls of the feet.
-slight comfortable bend in the knees
-bent forward at the waist
-shoulders rolled forward (pistol)
-set tension in the wrists and elbows ..not locked out but tight (pistol) elbows tucked in (rifle)

2: I break down the Draw. startingin the ready position I transistion to the pistol and break the bail (Safariland 6004, per your holster SOP) and aquire master grip and STOP.
***then I repeat this around 25-50 times. consentrating on minimizing the little movements and perfecting just this step.

3: Starting at the "3rd eye postion weapon in front of the chest (strong hand only) with my weak hand only about 10in away fro the gun. I bring the hands together to aquire the master grip on the gun and then STOP. (I use the Leatham/Enos grip with a modified CRUSH grip to simulate high stress shooting.) I do this little drill about 50 times since its the base of the following fundamentals. Consentrate on minimizing the little movements and perfecting just this step.

4: From there I continue to do the drill above but now put the next step in: punch out on target aquiring slight alingment/sight picture and STOP
I do this drill about 50 times on an actual target/ with T-shirt on for realistic purposes. Then I do it on a target with small Paisties to concentrate more on the sights and trigger pull which comes next. Consentrating on minimizing the little movements and perfecting just this step.

5: From the 3rd eye position do the drill above and then concentrate on isolating the trigger and squeezing, (utilizing the trigger on target theory)
since the only thing that is moving at this point is your trigger, think about using the pull to line up the sights (micro movemnets at this point). this is used in mostly bullseye and 25 yd pistol shooting but this really makes me think about trigger control. Dry fire this until you get sick of it.

6: Once you feel comfortable with these 5 steps, now put it all together, and keep it clean and concentrate on each fundamental but keeping it smooth and minimise all the little unessisary movments.

7: Strong hand only (all fundamentals)

8: Weak hand only (all fundamentals)

7: Once I'm through my basic funds practice I move into multiple target sight aquisition drill and moving drills responding left/right/back. Then shooting around corners under couches beds ect...

8: Then I go into speed reloads and tac-reloads while dry-firing on the targets.

9: Now I go into Malfunctions, type 1- type 4, I leave imeadiate and remedial action for the rifle. I do these malfunction drills master grip, strong only and weak only...this is something shooters and intructors neglect to do or teach.

RIFLE

-Same thing as the pistol really... minus the draw...
-I consentrate on sight aquisition speed and utilizing multiple targets.
-Transitions
-strong and weak
-malfunctions,...simulate firing then immeadiate action, then remeadial action. ***this drill is for targets over 50yrds only otherwise transition.

When I hit the range I do all the above to warm up and then move into all the high speed practical shooting.
here is a Qual course I use to stay proficient on:

QUAL PISTOL QUALIFICATION

YARD LINE/ DRILL/ REPS/ .45 Cal/ TIME

25- Pair Standing / Pair Kneeling 1/ 4/ 6
15- Pair Standing / Pair Kneeling 1/ 4/ 5.5
10- Pair /Speed Reload / Pair 1/ 4/ 5
10 to 3- Pair /Speed Reload / Pair 1/ 4/ 5
10 to 3- Failure Drill 1/ 3/ 4.5
7- Pair Strong Hand Only 1/ 2/ 2
7- Pair Weak Hand, weak hand draw 1/ 2/ 5
7- Pair/ Speed Reload /
Minimum Target Exposure Shot 1/ 3/ 4

SCORE 24 TORSO, 2 BRAIN (52 Points Total), Re-Face Targets.

15- Pair on 1st Target /
Speed Reload / Pair on 2nd Target 1/ 4/ 5
10 to 3- Pair on 1st Target / Speed Reload /
Pair on 2nd Target 1/ 4/ 5.5
10 to 3- Pair on Both Targets /Speed Reload /
Minimum Target Exposure Shot on Each 1/ 6/ 6.5
7 to 3- Pair on Both Targets / Speed Reload /
Pair on Both Targets 1/ 8/ 6.5
7- Minimum Target Exposure Shot on each
target 1/ 2/ 4

SCORE 20 TORSO, 4 BRAIN (48 Points Total).

TOTAL 50

NOTES (1) All drills start from the low ready with the M-4.
(2) Tactical/Speed reload as necessary.
(3) Clear any type 1,2 or 3 malfunction on the move.
(4) If you have a Type 3 malfunction, continue to move until you
reach your point of domination. Clear the malfunction from a
knee but do not engage.
(5) Always know the condition of your weapon.
(6) If you run dry, you loose those points.
(7) Highest score possible is 100 points.
(8) Complete CQB / Assault gear will be worn at all times.
(9) Totals are per man.

KevinB

07-19-06, 15:33

FWIW - try to train with a partner -- if it is not possible then try to video yourself (good to do anyway) as you will notice (or your partner will) things in the video that you may not be doing correctly.

SIMPLYDYNAMIC

07-20-06, 00:10

very good point Kev, Video is a great training tool...

K.L. Davis

11-06-06, 00:08

On Kevin and Travis' thoughts...

Share the video or mix up partners, if two guys are doing something wrong it seems to solidify faster than one person doing it alone -- the "adult learner" folks we have on staff tell us it is because when you are training alone, there is (almost) always a question in your mind if you are doing it right, but if you have another person there assuring you that you are doing something right, it sets faster.

Oh, and if you are doing live fire drills with a suppressed weapon in your home, make sure that your "traps" will stop the round you are shooting, otherwise you can shoot through a wall at the end of a hallway and through many, many rows of your wife's clothes hanging in the closet on the other side of said wall -- don't ask, just take for action ;)

Actually... skip the live fire stuff in your domicile, bad idea from the get-go.

Hoplophile

11-12-06, 21:33

I think the most benefit I've seen from a single drill is the basic rythym drill. Also called the Bill Drill. Put the target at 21 feet and fire 6 shots.

Start with 1 shot per second. Count off out loud "a thousand and 1, a thousand and 2..." pulling the trigger on each number, regardless of whether or not your sights are one the bullseye (they need to be on target, gotta be safe). Do that until you're putting all 6 in the bullseye and then speed up to 6 shots in 3 seconds. "and 1 and 2 and..." again with a shot on each number. When you're getting all your hits in the bulls eye speed it up to "1, 2, 3..." and keep increasing the rate until you're firing all six shots as fast as you can pull the trigger and still be accurate. Obvisouly you can mix it up by shooting it at different ranges, too.

Harv

11-24-06, 12:47

Here's my regime

As to rd count, it's usually 150-+200 5.56mm and 200 9mm.
I 'll start with pistol and my Homemade IDPA Cardboard tgts at 5 yds.
one full magazine (17rds) as a warm up. I'll practice my presentation and put the first rd COM and the next 16 rds in the same spot (or at least try to) I concentrate on my presentation, my grip, front site pic and trigger press and trigger reset.

I go slow and shoot for accuracy and correct form.

from there I'll start to speed up. 1-2 additional mags worth.

Then I sling up my AR and do the same thing at the same distance for 28 rds. concentrating on the same thing (minus the front site as I'm an Aimpoint guy..)

After my warm up I work on Emergency reloads by firing single rds in a mag to bolt lock and then E-load with a 2 rd mag.
I'll work on transitions after that. Single rd with the AR and then transition to pistol and execute failure drills (1-Head/2-CenterOfMass). I do this for a whole 28 rd AR mag.

I'll mix in hammer drills in with Failure drills. All AR drills will start from Indoor ready (muzzle down pointing about 4-5" in front of my left foot)

This usually takes me about an Hour. Then if I have the range to myself, I'll move the tgts back to 25 yds and practice some shooting on the move drills (using a Pair of Tgts) and practice Box drills (2shots COM left tgt,2 shots COM Right tgt,1 shot -head right tgt and 1 shot-head left tgt) and failure drills. I then work in transitions on the move as well. This usually takes me another hour.

Other drills I like to do are
The Devils Drill. A very good drill I learned from Greg "Sully"Sullivan from Defensive Edge. I like it cause it's a good well rounded drill.
At 18 yds using your tgt of choice ( I use Homemade Cardboard IDPA tgts. I pencil in a 8" wide Rectangle for COM and an upside down triangle that's a little smaller then a 3"x5" Index card for the brainbox)

You start from Indoor ready with a 8 rd mag in your AR and a 16 rd in a pouch.
put 8 rds in the 8" COM from standing, change mag on way down to kneeling
put 8 rds on 8"COM and then drop to prone and put the last 8 rds in the 8"COM within 18 seconds.

All hits within the 8"COM Zone.

There are several Variations of this drill with Rd count and distance to the tgt. this is just one.

What I try to concentrate on the most is my manipulation and Handling skills. What I have found and have learned from guys smarter then me with way more experience (you know who you are..) is that any Bucket-head with an AR and some descent ammo can hit a tgt. What brings shooters to there knee's is handling and manipulation. Being able to work all the controls and do the things you want to do when you want to do them with speed and smoothness.

Not that I'm a great shooter , but if I have a pretty descent gun and some halfway descent ammo, I can sit in the prone off on a bench and pretty much hit what I want all day long. That is not the Skill I am after (cause frankly... I already have it...) I want the skill of speed and smoothness and the ability to manipulate my Pistol and Carbine and execute what ever function I need to do (Reload, malfunction clearance,etc) And make good solid hits on my targets at the drop of a hat in any condition (Light /low light, rain, snow,etc).

I try to mix up my Solo training with group training with like minded shooters (which I am VERY fortunate to know a great group of guys I can do this with ...You know who you are as well..)

For me the name of the game is quality vs. high rd counts. Practice the fundamental drills to ingrain consistency.

As One very wise Instructor always say's "Practice does not make perfect... Practice makes permanent..."

mark5pt56

11-27-06, 21:43

I made this up awhile ago on the recommendation of a couple competitors.
This is a form, don't know how to copy the form here showing the lines, etc.

The "X" drill basically is you going from a small or large target to a large or small target twice. (like a 3" to 8" to a 3" and an 8", one example)

I'm not one for writing things down, but the two that showed me this keep a book.

Mark

SHOOTER - DATE-
LOCATION- WEATHER-
COMMENTS:

DRAW, ONE SHOT DISTANCE - TARGET -
#1- #2- #3- #4- #5-
#6- #7- #8- #9- #10-
COMMENTS:

BILL DRILL DISTANCE - TARGET -
#1- #2- #3- #4- #5-
COMMENTS:

RELOAD DRILL (DRAW, 1 SHOT, RELOAD, 1 SHOT
DISTANCE - TARGET -
#1- #2- #3- #4- #5-
COMMENTS:

X DRILL DISTANCE - TARGET (S) -
SHOOTING ORDER -
#1- #2- #3- #4- #5-
COMMENTS:

Wayne Dobbs

06-03-07, 12:02

If you want a really good dry fire package of well written information I would suggest you go to Bruce Gray's site and download his "Dry Fire Package" for free. Bruce is one of the best communicators of shooting technique out there.

Here's the link: http://www.grayguns.com/Grayguns_Dry_fire_Safety_packet.zip

subzero

06-03-07, 19:24

Larry Vickers says it in his classes; shooting pistols is hard, rifles and carbines are easy. So mastering pistol trigger control is one of the keys to shooting a carbine well. He talks about how he's seen guys who are all kinds of awesome with a rifle turn into a soup sandwich when the pistols come out. But very rarely does he see someone who shoots a pistol well that can't shoot a rifle well.

Thus, dry fire (at least at my house) is all done with a pistol. Rifles only get broken out to practice manipulations (reloads, malf clearance).

chris914

06-04-07, 15:41

BushmasterFanBoy

06-04-07, 17:17

Are you using a solid rest from a bench or are you going prone? What size are the targets that you are shooting at? When going for accracy (you know who you are), I like to use target paster squares. They are about 1'' in size and make a nice little point of aim. Aim small, shoot small. Try that out. You can also use index cards. 3x5's have just about replaced the standard bullseye target for me. If you can keep shots on either a 5x8 at 50 off hand or 3x5 at 25 off hand you are doing ok.

I don't have a rest per-se, but was shooting supported off the bench using a ten round mag so that my gun was rested by my VFG and pistol grip. Not exactly rested, but I'd expect better accuracy than what I got.

I will try using smaller targets next time, as well as keeping my mags at 5 rounds and going for accuracy.

johnson601

06-08-07, 14:02

A good trigger squeeze drill is to insert your cleaning rod into the end of your muzzel, leave it sticking out a coulple of inches, set a dime on top of the rod and practice trigger squeeze. If the dime falls off then continue until the dime does not fall off. Very simple, but is better if you have a friend set the dime on each time. Remember, be sure your weapon is cleared and always treat your weapon as if it is loaded during dry fire. This exersice works well for breathing too, your trigger pull should come at you natural pause between breaths.

Nathan_Bell

06-09-07, 20:04

One piece of gear that I was told by more than a couple of folks at the recent Vickers Carbine course is I must buy a shot timer to get anything productive out the drills. This makes sense. I am looking for one that does not require a six week correnspondence course to figure out all of the buttons. Also want something small enough that I can carry it around the range nad use it without it getting in my way. I liked the one Larry had, but I think it is a bit too large for carrying on one and doing drills. Last but not least, needs to be loud enough for detection with non-electronic hearing pro on.

Several models were mentioned at the end of the class, but I was so whipped that I forgot what they were.

Thanks

Barry in IN

06-09-07, 21:36

I have a CED8000. It's the blue one that folds sorta like a flip-phone.
It's OK.
It's small and handy, but I notice that I have never seen them in use by anyone who is good, or at any match, so that may say something.

I just wanted something to give me a random start signal, and I could check my time now and then.
I have found it pretty useful for things like:
-comparing how long it takes to change mags compared to pulling the backup,
-trying different methods of doing something (like weak handed draws),
-seeing if I really shoot faster with Gun A than Gun B, or does it just seem thatw ay,
etc.

Harv

06-09-07, 21:55

Here is what I use..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/harv24/IMG_1333.jpg

It's simple and has only a few buttons, and has a large LE display.

I can wear it on my belt and look down at my time after a drill..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/harv24/IMG_1336.jpg

I see this model of timer more often then any other when I go to shoot in local USPSA/IDPA type shoots...

Simple,rugged,reliable..Nice loud buzzer and easy to read display.

Lumpy196

06-09-07, 23:03

Ive had years of trouble free use from my Pact Club Timer III. Its always in my range bag.

Barry in IN

06-10-07, 19:44

Here's a review, but it's a couple of years old, and there are some others out now (or newer versions of the same).
www.sportshooter.com/gear/rev_timers.asp

I'd make sure whatever you get works with dry-fire.
It's nice to practice your drawstroke/dry snap with the timer, but I've heard that some won't pick up a dry fire snap.
My CED8000 (usually) will, but I've heard others with the same timer say theirs won't.
It may be the gun being used- I use external hammer guns like 1911s and HiPowers, and for all I know they may be using something like a Glock, which is a little quieter.

Dport

06-10-07, 22:21

I bought a cheapie from CTD about 2 and a half years ago. It's been in the side pocket of my range bag getting slammed against everything on the way to and from the range, and it still works fine. I've used in in drizzling rain, but never a steady rain or a downpour.

Looks like CTD sells Glock timers now, but Midway USA has the model I bought:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=772064

Low Drag

06-26-07, 21:34

While not a "dry fire drill" I think this will help.

Have a buddy load your mags, say 10 or 15 rds each and add anywhere in the mag some snap caps or other inert round (if you reload put some together without primer & powder). Slow fire at whatever target/range combo you want. If you're doing your job with trigger control you won't jerk the rifle when you drop the hammer on the dumby round. Man I HATE it when I jerk the weapon when doing this. :p

This also works great for handguns and failure to fire drills for any semi auto, long or handgun. But for now use it to learn trigger control.

If you're by yourself load 3 or 4 mags and put a dumby round in one or two mags only. Mix them up and fire away.

PropDoc

09-03-07, 12:21

Just a word on any time you go to the range to practice. Whether it be a simple day of shooting or a full on Tactical Training class, be honest with yourself.

If you cannot (do not) account for and claim each and every shot you take, you are only being dishonest with yourself. I have seen lots of trigger presses that you wonder what was being shot at, then to see the shooter turn and appear pleased that he got the rounds off so quickly, blows my mind.

SIMPLYDYNAMIC

09-03-07, 13:51

I have moved into a more intuitive method of shooting, with the methodology of getting combat accurate hits. This means balancing speed and precision. Knowing when to shoot intuitivly and fast (letting my mind and confidence level tell me when I need and dont need my sights) and then knowing when to use my sights and slow down at longer ranges but still get fast combat accurate hits. Combat accurate hits to me dosen't mean shooting a 3inch rathole at all ranges. To me it means stopping the threat... or even changing his course of action... I shoot a 6 shot 3in group in his chest at 10yards then I am being very effective but I am not being efficient, now if I speed up and shoot and 8-10 inch group in his chest then now I am being efficient and getting maximum combat hits.

Its a method of using what the body does naturally, for example: during a critical incident our eyes will focus on the threat more due to an increase of bloodflow to the rods in the eye, otherwise known as "Tunnel vision"
This actually makes us more dangerous and allows us to shoot more intuitivley at the threat. So the more non-sighted fire or point shooting you can do at closer ranges the better off you will fare when your body reacts under a critical stress incident.

So I like to use targets such as DT-2C colored number targets, or if I dont have them I draw different size shaped and numbers on some IPSC targets or cardboard. this allows me to conduct drills that force me to the edge of my shooting ability. I know I can shoot more intuitivley at the the larger targets but have to slow down for smaller ones. If I shoot tight groups than that tells me to speed up, If I'm outside the shapes than I obviously need to slow down. this is a great drill becuase if I am in a lack of time it can all be done from one range and gives me a very quick but Effecient workout on the range.

CarlosDJackal

09-03-07, 14:00

When I go to the range for practice (vs. plinking, performing a functions check, or confirming zero), I always do so for a purpose.

What this means is I do so with a specific set of objectives. I identify a primary objective (IE: single-shot presentation from the holster) and decide on what standards I will shoot for (IE: first-shot hit on 3x5 card at 21-feet from the holster in 1.8-seconds).

I also identify secondary (IE: 1/4-second follow-up shot) and alternative options but I normally do not go beyond the secondary objective until I've met the primary objective. In other words, if I really sucked during the practice session, I will only attempt the first two objectives with some exceptions.

Sometimes I will identify a standard that I know is not within my current skill level. The purpose of this is to force me out of my conmort zone and to help me identify my current limitations. While I know a sub 1-second shot from concealment (IDPA start: hands relaxed by my sides with the gun in an IWB holster under a t-shirt) is virtually impossible. Trying to achieve it can be a lot of fun and can sometimes help build one's confidence.

The caveat to all of this is as PropDoc says, you must be honest with yourself. Don't count a miss a hit and accept your llimitations as something you should work on and try to improve on. For example, if for some miracle I did get a shot off in under 1-second from concealement; I still do not count it as a success unless the shot is not where I was trying to put it. I don't care if my shot ended up in the anatomically correct target's heart if I was trying to put it between its eyes!!

FWIW, I sometimes videotape myself for further analysis and scrutiny. You'll be suprised just how many bad habits you pick up over time.

Derek_Connor

09-03-07, 20:26

One thing I took home from one of the blocks of instruction, when you go to the range, go with specific goals and intentions to work on ONE or TWO things.

For example, "I am going to practice and ensure that I feel the trigger reset on EVERY ROUND I SHOOT today."

Or, "I am going to find my front sight at the proper point in space and time when shooting.."

"I am going to work on getting the proper grip on my pistol's frame before I present my weapon"

"I am going to work on my follow through and not allow my eye to leave the scope nor my cheek to come off the stock until I feel my follow through is complete"

"I am going to make my tac reload as smooth as possible, and smooth today means slow. Which is ok..."

These are some of the things that come to mind right now that I have said to myself when going to the range, working on the fundamentals, building them like legos, has helped me alot....

PropDoc

09-03-07, 22:25

Man, i am really enjoying reading the different styles and types of practice. Really nice to see people doing it with a purpose. As for SimplyDynamic's "Intuitive" shooting, I practice that a lot and agree with your points........but i figure back to basics is always good now and then.

Point and shoot becomes easier if you can draw the pistol and align the sights first. Then you will develop a "feel" for where you point when you bring your weapon to bare. We have been pointing our finger at stuff with a fair amount of accuracy for years......now it's just a different appendage. Sweet. :D

Harv

09-04-07, 09:25

I agree.. when I go to the range. I have a purpose and a goal in mind. My practice sessions have been much better since I bought and use a Timer,
I try to focus on specific tasks (e.g.Reloading,pairs,etc). My ammo count is usually less then 200 rds. It's the quality vs. the quantity of practice that I find important.

I also try to follow what Travis explained about the speed vs. Accuracy. Groups to small.. your going to slow.. groups to big.. your going to fast. Find that happy medium and then maintain that zone.

I like a good dot drill for trigger control/sight alignment practice.

I use my own Cardboard cut out IDPA type target. I use a 8" circle high on the "chest" for COM (Drawn in light pencil)and a moddified "brain Box" drawn on the head.

I use Pencil so I don't fixate on a dark black circle drawn with a Sharpie. Since I rarely see people walking around with a 3" x 5" Box drawn on there forehead...(at least around where I live...:p )

The Timer is a great tool to use along with a practice log. so you can see if your getting better or not.

Consistent execution of the basic fundamentals of Marksmanship.... that's the ticket... That's what I constantly strive for...

John_Wayne777

09-04-07, 21:25

I have moved into a more intuitive method of shooting, with the methodology of getting combat accurate hits. This means balancing speed and precision.

Interesting.

When you do this intuitive shooting are you getting a "flash" sight picture, or are you basically ignoring the sights at ranges of 3-7 yards or so?

SIMPLYDYNAMIC

09-04-07, 22:40

Interesting.

When you do this intuitive shooting are you getting a "flash" sight picture, or are you basically ignoring the sights at ranges of 3-7 yards or so?

Neither, I am simply focusing on the threat which is what our eyes WANT to do in the first place especially at close quarters...(point blank to around 10 yards for me) this obviously changes with experience levels... and needs to be practiced. The shooter has to find the balance between when to use his sights and when not to. If a man is holding my son hostage at 7-10 yards and I have only a head shot...then obviously this will process through the amygdala and my brain is going to tell me to slow down and sight in. Now if hes open game I am going to most likely going to shot as fast as I efficiently can.
Consistance and proper exention of the arms helps when doing the "point shooting"

blackscot

09-05-07, 06:43

SIMPLYDYNAMIC

09-05-07, 14:19

Back to the original question, I believe that action-style competition is an effective way to demonstrate your shooting strengths and weaknesses, and thereby identify which skills most need further improvement.

I agree 100% I find that Action shooting comps helps keep me proficient especially when I am not running classes or taking classes shooting. It is great because there is a little bit of self enduced stress with the timer and you get to run and gun, shoot in awkward positions and push your speed and precision balance. I just have to keep the tactics shooting world and the race gunning world to seperate training entities. (fundamentals are the same but the tactics are different.)

Voodoochild

09-05-07, 14:43

I honestly try to work on my stand and moving skills. I see way too many people bench shooting and that to me is way to easy. Unfortunately my range isn't very friendly when it comes to moving and shooting. So I have joined the QSC and might try to enroll in a few carbine courses and pistol courses to better my skill level and confidence.

Overall I try to work on shooting at multiple distances and need to work on shooting with irons instead of optics because anyone can do that. Overall I am far from being HSLD more like HDLS.

Travis when you were at Quantico were you out at WTBN/PWS?

GastonG-NoVa

09-05-07, 20:38

When I start seeing nice tight groups, I realize that they have got a handle on basic marksmanship. Once they can display that, we start speeding up, moving around, and/or add stress to them.

If your group looks really good then you are shooting way too slow!!

Someone above stated that there are times for a more precise shot. It makes sense to mix up the fast big targets and the mor precise smaller targets.

Good thread, stay vertical

Mojo58

09-05-07, 20:52

Without posting a range routine that looks like a recipe for "male chauvanist chili" (which by the way is the best damn chili I've ever tasted), what do you guys normally start off with when you get to the range? How long are your sessions? I usually start off with drawing from concealment with the target's 7 yards away. When I can consistently hit COM with a 1.5 sec - 1.6 sec consistency, then I move on to 10 and 15 yards from low ready and high ready. I'll move on to controlled pairs and some NSRs. I'd really like some ideas for my carbine work out and would appreciate hearing from some of you more seasoned guys to steer me in the right direction. Most of my sessions are pistol and I could really use work on my carbine skills. What should my distances and time constraints be for CQB with my carbine. Thanks guys!

PropDoc

09-08-07, 18:22

KDG

09-08-07, 21:09

Since a good draw to shoot is pretty much several steps, try this. Practice dry at home drawing, bringing the weapon to bare, and firing (dry). A good draw to shoot should look something like this....draw weapon straight up from holster, rotate to get muzzle toward target (in case you have to pull the trigger there) bring weapon and other hand together at just about your sternum, then press the weapon out to your shooting position, (align sight or point) and fire.

Ok, with that established, you can first practice getting the weapon to your sternum at home, then go to the range. Start with hands together at sternum, press gun out and shoot. Most ranges will not say anything for that. Just a thought. :)

You know, that's a great suggestion.

With limited range rules doing dry fire training at home is a good idea, and I think I will do more of it, including your pointers.

Just handling the rifle/pistol and trying different techniques at home makes you much more familiar and comfortable using it, so the drawing of a pistol, quick sighting in, quick and proper mag changes / same with the rifle /makes it second nature.

Then at the range I can concentrate on quicker target acuisition, controlling recoil, hitting where I want and sneak in a few double taps.

Great idea, thanks

Do need to find a place to do the entire live fire training, to train the mind under stress. Then and only then when under stress can we truly train to be effective under the situations where we may have to use our weapons for defense/ offense purposes.

SIMPLYDYNAMIC

09-08-07, 22:08

+1000000 on dry practice! It is 90% of my training. just make sure it is perfect practice...like the ol saying!

lindertw

09-10-07, 21:26

Biggest change for me this year was switching to 3"x5" cards for targets. My goal each range visit is to keep 'em on the card.

I feel pretty lucky to have a 50yd indoor range with targets that you can run from edge to foe on a timer, and allows draw from concealment. I try to make local IDPA matches as time allows - but I really need to get out more.

roadstar

09-12-07, 09:43

PropDoc

09-12-07, 15:50

I started doing the 3 x 5 card thing a while back too. Actually, I use a 4 x 6 white sticker placed upper center of the A zone in a USPSA target. I have made every effort to place my shots inside the 4 x 6 box. It slowed me down at first, but I am keeping 80%+ inside the white. My concern is if it is actually helping. Take away the focal point and then what?

Any thoughts?

Now leave the card off and just focus on the area you want the round to go (no clear point). Then after the first round, you have a wonderful little focal point again.
My bet is the practice with the card will have helped a lot. :)

Edit: Being able to put rounds in a tight group, on paper, only goes to keeping them a bit closer together (don't read grouped) when under very high stress levels. So if you can't keep them tight on paper, where do you think they are gonna go under very high stress..................can you say MISS!!!

Yojimbo

09-13-07, 13:09

Propdoc,

It's funny that you mentioned about practicing from the #2 position of the 4 count drawstroke. I do this a lot when I'm forced to train at someplace that will not allow drawing from the holster.

As far as triaining goes I agree with those who say train with a purpose. With the current price of ammo I don't have the pleasure of "plinking" for the sake of fun anymore. When I shoot these days it's all business and improving skills.

Regarding group sizes, I agree with SD, go slow and work on the fundementals to build up your basics and then speed up to where you can keep everything in a 8" circle.

blackscot

09-14-07, 07:26

......go slow and work on the fundementals to build up your basics and then speed up to where you can keep everything in a 8" circle.

"Speed is fine, but accuracy is final."
--Larry Vickers

Robb Jensen

09-14-07, 07:57

"Speed is fine, but accuracy is final."
--Larry Vickers

Exactly.
I've been shooting for 32yrs and shooting competition for 3.5yrs, I don't consider myself FAST.

Someone once told me in competition a miss costs you not only points but at least a 1/2 second in time. If you can't make a hit within a 1/2 second you really need to slow down. Only hits count.

The Dumb Gun Collector

09-25-07, 01:02

I started a new drill this last weekend. Using a 100 yard field, I set up paper plate targets at roughly 10-25 yard increments. The idea is to draw, shoot the first target, run to the first target, use the first target as cover and shoot 2 targets 2 rounds each. Run to that target, go prone and shoot the next target which is 15 yards away. Then run to that target, go to a knee and shoot two targets approximately 25 yards away each (both about 30 yards from each other). You do this while running your ass off. You run, do not jog or walk to each target. This drill will take a lot out of you because you end up running about 55 yards total. You can vary it by doing lean-outs, roll-outs, etc behind the targets. I used "recycled" political signs with paper plates taped to them.

Fun drill that gets you in shape in a lot of different ways. I tried it with pistol and rifle,

rob_s

09-26-07, 04:31

03humpalot

09-26-07, 06:59

We have set up similar "drills" in our rifle matches except that we use "hard cover" at each station. The "story" that goes with the stage is that you're killing badguys at one position of cover, advancing to it, and repeating.

It's a fun drill. We've also done similar drills where your handgun is waiting for you at the last position as a "dropped weapon" and when you get to the last station you run out of ammo and have to switch to the handgun. Fortunately nobody has hit their own pistol yet. :eek:

I keep wanting to do a stage where we're set up on the 50 yard line with your empty rifle and your magazine is at the 0. At the buzzer you have to leave your rifle at the 50, run back to the 0, retrieve your magazine, come back to the 50, and engage the 4" steel at 100.:D

I ran that one set up for bolt guns a while back.

Rifle grounded at 100 yard line, on command shoulder rifle and fire 1 round standing.
Run to 75 yard line and pick up one 1 round, run back to 100 yard line chamber and fire 1 round from kneeling position.

Ground rifle, run to 50 yard line retrieve one round,run back to 100 and fire 1 round sitting.

Ground rifle, run to 25 yard line retrieve 1 round run back to 100, chamber and fire 1 round prone.

Target was 8.5x11 sheet of paper with some dudes mug on it. Pays to have a variable power scope on a 15Lb bolt gun when your not shooting from the prone.

Good shit

Rmplstlskn

12-01-07, 19:12

I am making an early New Years resolution... MORE TRAINING! (I need it... :rolleyes: ) One goal is the Vickers Carbine 1 class in FEB-08...

I want to begin now so I'm not "That Guy!" and shed saliva on a dirty, sticky, moisture-laden bus window... :D

My #1 goal is to learn to SLAY that ornery, repulsive El Snatcho, the bastard child of all that is unholy...

What can a BEGINNER do to PREPARE without developing bad habits that Vickers must exorcise from me?

Thanks in advance,
Rmpl

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/elsnatcho.jpg

Jay Cunningham

12-01-07, 20:04

Dry-fire every day.

John_Wayne777

12-01-07, 20:50

What can a BEGINNER do to PREPARE without developing bad habits that Vickers must exorcise from me?

Perfect practice makes perfect.

To learn basic trigger control try shooting a handgun at a REALLY tiny target from 5 yards away. When I say "tiny" I mean golfball sized target...nothing bigger than 3 inches. Try and get to the point where you can put a shot into that sized target from that distance on command.

Come up from a low ready and squeeze off a good shot. When you get to the point where you can do that without issue, try two shots. Then three. Then move back to seven yards and repeat.

Obtain a shot timer and start doing this under time restraints, as in three shots in 3 seconds or less from a low ready. When you can put multiple shots into the target without issue from a low ready, start doing it from the draw.

Again, perfect practice makes perfect, so don't accept anything less than the required accuracy. You're only hurting yourself if you don't have the discipline to get the hits.

If you have a buddy who can go with you, do some ball and dummy drills. You turn your back and your buddy sets your weapon up to have either an empty chamber or a full chamber....you don't know which. Then when given the command or when the buzzer goes off you come up and make the shot. If you are flinching, this will often reveal it. If you snatch the trigger do 5 PERFECT trigger pulls and then set up the drill again....repeat several times. In the old days people who trained new police officers used to do this by loading a couple of spent cases into a revolver and then watching carefully as the trainee went through a cylinder.

When dry firing at home, use a spent casing or a coin balanced on the front sight. If you are snatching the trigger the coin/case will fall off the front sight.

Laser grips can also help reveal poor trigger control.

If you are doing a basic course with Mr. Vickers he will run you through many of the same drills if he determines that your class needs them. Even in "advance" classes when he sees a bunch of short busing going on he will stop and make folks run through those drills to get them back on track.

The most important thing you can learn before going to a beginner's level course is TRIGGER FINGER DISCIPLINE and MUZZLE CONTROL. Learn to attach your brain to the muzzle of that weapon and don't sweep anyone. If you are aware of your muzzle and keep your finger out of the trigger guard, you'll be ahead of the game.

Rmplstlskn

12-01-07, 20:53

Dry-fire every day.

I read in one of the AAR's that one training exercise is to balance an empty pistol case on the top of the pistol while doing dry fire exercises...

I assume this means to balance a case on top of the SLIDE, not the tiny flat surface of the front sight post itself...

Oops... John Wayne fired off a shot before my reply, sort of negating my assumption... Wow, on that little narrow strip of metal, balance a case while dry firing?

Rmpl

John_Wayne777

12-01-07, 20:58

I read in one of the AAR's that one training exercise is to balance an empty pistol case on the top of the pistol while doing dry fire exercises...

I assume this means to balance a case on top of the SLIDE, not the tiny flat surface of the front sight post itself...

Nope.

On top of the front sight itself. It can be done on practically every front sight. A buddy to help out with this process is a good idea.

That way if you do ANYTHING that makes the sights move (which would also make the bullet go somewhere other than where it is supposed to go) it will show up loud as day.

On a Glock or an M&P you can snatch the trigger and not knock the casing off of the slide...but if you have even a little snatch the casing won't stay on the front sight.

HolyRoller

12-02-07, 10:24

Most definitely get you a timer. I got a little yellow rectangular one by some guys in Canada for less than $100 and it works perfectly. Timers keep you honest and help you improve. Since marksmanship boils down to sight alignment and trigger control, here's what I do for each:

Dryfiring doesn't always need a target. In fact, sight alignment doesn't depend on an aiming mark at all, so a blank wall will do for a target. Align the sights so that the tops are all exactly even with each other, and dryfire without disturbing this sight picture. Sight alignment and trigger control work together by aligning the sights, and then pressing the trigger so that the sights stay aligned. Dryfire against a blank wall until you can get the hammer to fall without changing the sight alignment.

You don't need a friend to do ball and dummy drills. Get three or four or five magazines, load one with a dummy and a ball, and all the rest with a ball and a dummy so they'll weigh and feel the same. Close your eyes, shuffle them in your hands for a few seconds, pick one at random and load it, drop the rest on the bench or a folding chair, and open your eyes. For a real treat, set your timer for three or two seconds starting from gun on target. El Snatcho will be flushed out of hiding, I garontee.

For more on pure pistol marksmanship, read some threads over at www.targettalk.org where a lot of people really know what they're doing. You might even think about getting yourself an air pistol such as an IZH-46, which is very nearly Olympic-quality gear at a Russian price.

Failure2Stop

12-03-07, 10:23

How I work through the anticipation issue-

I use this for midrange work (15 to 25 yards), or close (3-10) if the shooter needs to break a habit or is new to pistol. You can do this alone.

Shooter dry-fires for a few cycles, until I can see smooth manipulation of the trigger to the rear in a timely manner. Many people, when dry-firing, tend to take an inordinate amount of time to actually "fire" the shot. I want the shooter manipulating the trigger in less than one second after sight alignment/picture has been achieved. I don't want the shooter to get in the habit of overly cleaning up the shot. I want the shooter to (at first) be consciously aware of the trigger pressure, and will then begin seating the trigger pressure as habit, while focusing on sight alignment and sight picture consciously.

Don't spend too much time on dry drills, as it is effing boring.

Introduce ammunition to the pistol. I prefer to have a magazine with full capacity. Insert magazine, rack slide, remove magazine. If you are using a 1911 or have a magazine disconnect, have a dummy round under the live round and leave the magazine inserted. If you are using an SA/DA, I usually begin with SA.

Fire one shot. Since there is no magazine in the weapon, the slide will cycle, cocking the weapon, but there will be no round in the chamber (or you will have a dummy round in the chamber). Attempt to fire the next shot.

The second shot is usually the worst shot of the day for new shooters, as they just learned from the first shot that shooting is loud and snappy. If uncorrected, this will set them up for a lifetime of anticipation issues. However, they will not reinforce that lesson if the second "shot" is not loud or snappy.

Since the second shot is a dry-fire shot, we can diagnose any budding anticipation issue immediately. Also, the brain does not link trigger control to unpleasantness as readily as if the second shot was live. If there was any anticipation, repeat dry-fire until the trigger settles down. During the second shot pay close attention to any eye-flicker or flinch, no matter how small.

If there is no flinch for the second shot, repeat the setup. If the shooter is trying to get over habitual anticipation, perform at least 10 dry-fire shots before returning to live shots. If it is habit, the shooter is usually keenly aware of a loaded weapon, and can "cheat" the practice. However, habitual flinchers will flinch on the second shot more than 99% of the time.

Repeat until there is absolutely no anticipation seen during the second shot, or you feel satisfied with your level of trigger control.

Next move onto cadence shooting with ball and dummy.

Fill several magazines to capacity, but insert dummy rounds randomly throughout the magazines. Make sure the top two rounds are live. Put all of the mags into your range-bag, without looking, stir them around, pick one, load and make ready.

You will be firing several shots in a row, on a specific cadence. It is not rapid-fire or pairs work, just solid well-aimed shots one after another. In my head I am just counting to 3 over and over, I will be shooting on the "1", so it pretty much gives me 2 seconds between shots.
This is what goes through my head:
1-2-3-BANG-2-3-BANG-2-3-BANG-etc.

Since they are deliberate shots, and bounce or flinch on the dummies is bad. Should there be any flinch demonstrated, immediately remove the magazine and dry fire. The repeat the first drill for 2 to 5 rounds, but do not linger on it.

Candence shoot until three magazines can be consecutively emptied without any trigger control issues.

For a practice warm-up I place 3 one-inch stickers on my target, with about 6-8 inches between the stickers. At 5 yards I shoot 5 rounds at each sticker at a medium cadence (about 1 second between shots). The first five are fired with a two-handed grip, the second with a strong-hand only grip, the third with a weak-hand only grip.

With a DA/SA gun, use 6 aiming points, shoot the top three stickers DA with two hands, strong hand, then weak hand, and the bottom three SA from two hands, then one-handed strong and weak.

This is a good method for self-diagnosis without having to walk up and down the range. At 5 yards you should be shooting under 2" uniform groups. If not, the close proximity to the target should show you exactly what you are doing wrong.

Works for me, YMMV

KevinB

12-21-07, 00:53

This came out of a responce I wrote to something on another forum. I figured it was releavant here, as well I noticed Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn picking up somethings and commenting on it in general.

For people who have been in the military - we all know that some "drills", theory, arcane lore, etc that has come down the mountain is utter tripe. Similarily we've learned thru trial and error, and those who have surivived and passed on tidbits of knowledge that some are vital life savers.

Part of the problem is when these lessons get passed on - can be that the student does not grasp the WHY of what we are doing.

Looking at some of the recent debates on tactics and training that have gone on, clearly a lot of miscommunication has gone on.

Larry commented on a string that we where shooting on the recent Low Light course that he noticed some students where rushing through the drill to race to complete it -- with their goal to close the ejection port.

Now deconstructing a partial sequence after you have engaged the enemy - you are doing a primary scan in your immediate arc, looking for more bad guys to shoot in the face (tell Sneaky I owe him a licensing fee) confirming your target is down, dealing with non visible threats in your immediate arc, doing a secondary scan - ensuring your teammates are GTG and your 360 is clear.
The scans should not be robotic -- you should be able to see LAV holding up a few fingers behind the line (if this is trg) - they are quick - but paying attention to detail -- as those little details will come back to bite you and your teammates.
If the local area is clear (to the best of you knowledge at the time) - well SAFETY ON - and within your det tact reload - and (then you can close your ejection port if your so inclined [I do]).
This is just a basic range drill - not a room with multiple openings - that at the same time your communicating the room details to your teammates and processing what your getting, dealing with enemy, friendly, and extra's etc.

Attention to detail...

Getting into another aspect (to which I had not really intended)
I'm not looking at this one from a training side -- but as for getting jocked up for work.
The old Testicles, Specatacles, Wallet, and Watch.
Comms gear GTG?
ID ?
IFF / NV gear
gear - holster all done up right
carbine - sight on?, light good, is it GTG (press check)
pistol - press check.

I know press checking got side tracked on the last thread - and I wont get into it - other than to say I recommend it - I did not used to, I used to think I had checked out -- and then I had a pistol go click instead of bang (see the real reason why I've never shot anyone with a pistol...)

Pat Rogers had an excellent article about keeping ones head in the fight -- and its 100% true - and Ken Hackathorn had another great comment - you cannot make a GrassEater a MeatEater in a class, you either are or you are not - however life's little dramatic momements can inspire change.

In my closing rambling - THINK now ACT when needed, get your training in now - and reinforce GOOD muscle memory when you can.

Robb Jensen

12-21-07, 07:07

Excellent post Kevin.

I equate going through the motions (even slow) was to make them permanent (or habit).

It's just like 'dry firing', 'dry practice' you do it to make it permanent, after a few thousand times aligning the sights and pulling the trigger, the effort becomes permanent and almost thoughtless (a good thing).

KevinB

12-21-07, 07:26

GotM4 -- roger on that one -> Perfect practice makes perfect.

I guess my point was not just that one has got to have the muscle memory - the need to be observant for any changes to situ must be ingrained as well.

BigRed and I tend to dick each other around running each other thru drills - popping tgt's up during a tac reload etc - to keep the mind and eyes focused throughout - so one jumps into an emergency load - and engages (or if not at that point yet - just shitcans the new mag and engagages the tgt - continuing the cycle.

I definitely dont claim to be the "be all, end all" on tactics or shooting, but its clear that while the excellent instructors can articulate the rationale for the drill as well as the drill -- a lot of instructors are not, either due to their own ignorance, or poor instructional ability, or a combination of both.

John_Wayne777

12-21-07, 07:30

In my closing rambling - THINK now ACT when needed, get your training in now - and reinforce GOOD muscle memory when you can.

Amen.

Folks, there's no prize for being the first guy back in the holster.

Robb Jensen

12-21-07, 07:46

Amen.

Folks, there's no prize for being the first guy back in the holster.

Exactly!

In training and competition I HATE seeing guys reholstering fast, there's just no need, nothing good comes of it. Reholster when you're certain you've shot everything that was supposed to be shot. I believe this comes from bad repetitive practice at the range. They reholster fast while practicing draws etc. You have all day to reholster, do it safely. I also HATE seeing guys, clearing their chamber at full speed pulling the slide open making the round pop up way in the air and catching the round.........not a wise move.

KevinB

12-21-07, 07:56

I also HATE seeing guys, clearing their chamber at full speed pulling the slide open making the round pop up way in the air and catching the round.........not a wise move.

I used to do that at clearing barrels going onto some FOB's :D I called it my Dnzel Washington move. But yeah other than impress medic chicks at the gate with my cat like reflexes (or outter cloddery as I dropped it and went rooting for the round) it was pretty pointless.

John_Wayne777

12-21-07, 08:46

Reholster when you're certain you've shot everything that was supposed to be shot. I believe this comes from bad repetitive practice at the range.

Yes...and a failure of mindset.

Ultimately if we are carrying weapons for serious social purposes the majority of our practice is aimed at enabling us to respond effectively to someone who is trying to kill us.

A lot of what happens on the range isn't geared to that. That's one reason why I liked the LL class with Ken and Larry, because both of them made a point to constantly remind students of the fact that they are preparing for an actual fight.

Harv

12-21-07, 16:00

Ooooh.. Good Topic Kev...

and spot on...

My take.. it's attention to detail (or lack there of) that separates the men from the boys. I have heard it.. I have preached it.. I have been burned by it thru my entire Military career.. It's what gets everyone.....WHY?? cause it's so easy to overlook.

Guys should not be tac loading just for the sake of it.. they should be doing it cause having a fully loaded gun is a good thing.. it's a TTP that works.

Press checks are a good thing...
I see it on the line all the time.. a guys shoots the drill.... tries to go as fast as he can.. and then hurries up and let's his guard down so he can hurry up ..close his dust cover and then relax and BS with the guy next to him.

Most shooters lack focus which is part of mindset which needs to be ingrained into you. Needs to be Hardwired.. I like the grass eater to meat eater analogy.

One thing I notice a lot during a drill when I'm on a line with a dozen other shooters..... I'm the last one to finish every drill.. Why?? cause I'm not in a hurry to drop my guard and hurry up and tac reload and then hurry up and close my dust cover...

I'm looking for someone else to fight... I look at my tgt... I look at the one to the left of mine... I look at the tgt to the right of mine.... I look around me..... then I roll my gun to port and give it a quick visual and then as I slowly bring it down to indoor ready I sub consciously use my trigger finger to close my dust cover. All the while thinking..."Any second.. another target will show up and I need to be ready"

At that point am I done??

No.. cause there is ammo management to be done... Is my "Go to" Mag pouch empty? Then I need to back fill it from my least accessible pouch. and fill up my more readily accessible pouches from the hardest to reach ones..

Is my Pistol topped off?? if not.. now is the time.

You've all heard the "slow is smooth,smooth is fast" mantra... It's absolutely true.

I watch more shooters fumble**** a mag reload cause there going at lightning speed trying to do it fast.

I have to consciously tell my self... "slow down dumb ass....breath and do what you know you need to do...by the numbers"

and when I do.. I'm smoother.. faster and have much better economy of motion.

No Magic.. just working on consistently repeating the basic fundamentals that Guys like Pat and Larry teach..

And every time I'm at the range. by myself working on drills... I here this Irish/Brooklyn accent that's behind me... always saying the same thing....." Hey Harvath...Don't **** up"

It's really that simple.....;)

And Pat's article on Mindset and getting ready is golden.. I read it often as I believe it is the corner stone to a solid grasp of fundamentals.. I think that is what most shooters struggle with..

Like the man say's... None of this shit is hard.. you just need to practice it and ingrain it into your brain housing group.... It's all about a shooters "head space and timing" some shooters can "fire a burst" every time.. and others go "pop" once and then have a stoppage.

markm

02-01-08, 09:16

I run this type of drill sometimes with my carbine. Advancing all the way up the 200 yard range smacking gongs 30-60 yards ahead each move. Then I work my way back to the starting firing line.

It's really good training to shoot when you are breathing hard. By the time I've run up and back and shot all locations, I'm nearly gasping for air.

Wayne Dobbs

02-04-08, 11:22

I believe that Jeff Cooper wrote of a drill long ago in which you had a single Pepper Popper at 200 meters. From prone, you hit the popper (hopefully with one round) and then ran to the popper, reset same, ran back and repeated it for 10 hits. I believe it was called "Rifle 10" and it causes me to start breathing hard just thinking about it. Obviously, it's a one man drill due to safety concerns about who's running up/down range and who's shooting.

markm

02-04-08, 11:37

That drill does not sound fun. It'd be a good way to cut your ammo costs though! Sprinting 400 meters for every shot you fire would sure eliminate wasteful shots!

Iraq Ninja

02-04-08, 11:49

Run to that target, go prone and shoot the next target which is 15 yards away. ,

Can you explain the reason for going prone for a target only 15 yards away?

Your drill sounds like fun, for physical stress shooting, but I tend to prefer such drills that are tactically sound, and thus a bit confused by your drill. Maybe make it a simulation of getting knocked down by a shot to your leg, then kill the threat, treat your wound, and low crawl 100 yards back to cover :).

Mojo58

03-06-08, 18:27

While reading the latest SWAT mag, there is a pic where a woman with her AR15 is referred to as shooting the "box drill". What is the "box drill"?

John_Wayne777

03-06-08, 18:43

While reading the latest SWAT mag, there is a pic where a woman with her AR15 is referred to as shooting the "box drill". What is the "box drill"?

Picture a square.

Now imagine a shooter walking around the outside perimeter of that square while shooting....requiring them to move forward, sideways, and backward.

There you have it.

ToddG

03-06-08, 18:51

Yep. First time I saw it was in a Hackathorn "Combat Pistol" class in '97 but I imagine it's been around a lot longer than that.

climber2016

03-06-08, 19:14

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/XJ90/box.jpg

Steve

03-06-08, 19:35

Ahh sorry guys in this case it was denny hansens daughter shooting a version of the box drill that goes like this

2 targets about 3 feet apart (approx) drill goes hammer to target 1, hammer to target 2, brain box to target 2, brain box to 1... (single rounds) to brain box

Steve

03-06-08, 20:35

Yes.... I teach a variation of it were after your two sets of hammers you transition to handgun for your brain box shots....

But im pretty sure from the article and a few of pats classes that that is the content of the box drill he does.

ToddG

03-07-08, 00:04

We're talking about two different drills here.

climber2016 gave a diagram of the Box Drill. Someone can design a different drill and call it a box drill, but the Box Drill (as John_Wayne777 described it and climber2016 showed it) is THE Box Drill.

The drill being described is a variant of a X-Drill (http://pistol-training.com/drills/x-drill), also sometimes called a Figure-8 drill. However, by shooting the heads once instead of twice, you lose one of the major benefits of a true X-Drill (changing your cadence as dictated by the size/distance of the target).

Larry Vickers

03-07-08, 05:42

Todd is correct as I know the truth to be - the X drill is commonly called the box drill and is also commonly mistaken (at first) when I mention the Hackathorn shooting on the move drill known as the box drill

I do it with every class (the box drill) - pistol or carbine - and it is the single best shooting on the move drill I know of

If you have not tried it yet you are missing a real treat!!

be safe

Larry Vickers

www.vickerstactical.com

rob_s

03-07-08, 06:29

We do the "shooting on the move" version at our matches. It proves.... interesting.

We throw in another twist that I got from Randy Cain where you have to "minimize the angle". In other words, you shoot the target that is at the closest to 90 degrees to you at all times. So, if you're advancing down the left side, you shoot the target furthest to the right first, then the center, then the left.

I also like this drill because it plays with people's holdovers. We had one guy shoot the drill with an Aug, and you could have covered all of his groups with a 50 cent piece; all just above the 0 down on an IDPA target.

I like adding "thinking" elements to drills. Some at the matches complain that they are too "scripted", but trying to remember the script is what makes you think.

smithjd

03-07-08, 08:09

I believe that we are actually talking about three different things...

The "Box Drill" that LAV, and TGreen spoke of is the movement drill as I know it also, with my first exposure to it in a Ken Good class. You can really take it to an extreme by incorporating angles, lateral and vertical displacements, bilateral shooting (i.e. switching hands), and pivots, all within the box.

The "box drill" as it is taught by Pat Rogers (the class Denny's daughter was in in the magazine) is a failure drill. Although it is similar in execution to a variation of the X drill, the purpose and intention are completely different. Everyone gets two to the center mass, and immediately reverse course giving everyone one to the head. Presumably Pat calls this a "box" drill because you have shot the targets in the shape of a box when done.

Whereas the X drill is all about driving the gun from target to target and "changing gears" a/k/a focus types.

JLM

03-08-08, 02:51

How big should the 'box' be?

ToddG

03-08-08, 03:11

Which one? Apparently, there are at least three different things people are calling the Box Drill!

For the real box drill, it doesn't have to be a specific size. You can do it with different number of targets, different size of the box, etc. The concept is what's important, it has you aggress, shift laterally right, retreat, and shift laterally left.

You can also turn things 45-degrees so you get all four diagonals in practice, too.

abnartyguy

03-10-08, 20:09

Gents,
I have to admit i made the same mistake after taking Hac's and Lav's class that when Pat Rogers introduced his Box drill I looked at him like, what? It's that a failure to stop drill? I have to say both are good drills that emphasize two different skills. Hac's will stress shooting and moving, Pat's is good for target transitions. Best part of Pat's drill is when you shoot it strong hand only with a carbine and see how heavy your AR really is! While Hac's/Lav's drill will remind you that chewing bubble gum and walking is a learned skills, lol, later.
-Zef M.:cool:

John_Wayne777

03-10-08, 21:44

By "treat" Mr. Vickers means "Drill most likely to humiliate you".

Everybody looks like a stud going forward....but getting people to walk backwards while making accurate shots around a series of obstacles....that's tough. On more than one occasion I've just about ended up on my a$$ while doing a drill like that. You have to learn to process a whole lot of information at once and keep a lot of things straight to be able to do it well....

It's even worse in the dark. I think the majority of our time on the short bus in the low light class was doing the box drills and the figure 8 drills (weaving in between two obstacles in a pattern that makes a figure 8) in the dark.

ToddG

03-14-08, 15:47

Word of advice for folks who want to try this out with new(er) shooters for the first time:

The standard way of defining the four corners is to use 55g drums or their plastic equivalent. Be sure to weigh them down a bit so they won't fall over if someone bumps into them.

Better yet, to avoid someone backing into a barrel, tripping, and testing his ability to keep his finger off the trigger and muzzle downrange unexpectedly, I suggest using either word planks or at the very least police tape strung from corner to corner. This way, the shooter will have visual and tactile feedback if he starts to intersect one of those crazy malicious barrels.

AZATHOTH

03-26-08, 17:32

a fun variation on this drill, have a friend/teammate yell "transition" (to pistol) makes it alittle more fun.

once you make it to the corrner switch back to your rifle (or when you run dry)

movement, precision, and practice transitions on the move.. just more fun to be had...

also if you still have anything left in your mag, that mag gets left in your gun (or put back in) on your next turn.. just more fun, count your rounds if you can.:D

Blake

05-13-08, 16:30

I was thinking about some of the best ways to get the "best bang for your buck" at the range. I realize there are several types of qualifications types of runs you can go through. I've seen Mr. Hackathorn's IDPA classifier with the M4, seems like a great "practice" session. However it is only 90 rounds, and I'm guessing it would take just a few minutes to accomplish. I'm looking for ideas for pistol and carbine, conditions would be between 200-300 rounds, and have approximately 1 hour at the range. I would like to get a wide variety of drills. This is for nothing formal of course, just looking to put together several different range training sessions. I think it is important to go to the range with a plan, that will challenge you, and let you work on useful skills other than standing square and shooting rounds at a target. Thanks.

mark5pt56

05-13-08, 17:08

My opinion is that courses are test and not training, drills designed to address specific manipulations are training.

One thing I've learned is the use of targets that give you some measurable feedback. The various Bullseye targets are good for this.

Break down the core things you need to perform.

Stance(standing, kneeling, prone + other abstract ones)
Grip
sight alignment
sight picture (sight management)
trigger control (be nice and don't spank it like a wild pony!)
breathing (dependant on system and shot difficulty)
follow through (primary threat/scan for others/team mates, etc. weapons check)

If you want to get deeper, there are sub categories for some of the above(listed).

Once you understand the above dry, start working on live fire. Untimed accuracy to begin with at various distances, two handed, strong hand only, weak hand only.(not getting into sillyness such as off hand, support hand reaction hand, etc, I see all as a term to describe the hand which isn't the dominate)

ready positions
multiple shots/targets
malfunctions
reloads
draws
positions
shoot on the move
mover if available
timed runs

Don't introduce the time into it until you have worked out the bugs on the movements. Do them right and then worry about the time, speed will come later.

That's a start I guess. When you can keep them in the target slow fire, start working on timed.

Just a start, hope it helps!

Blake

05-13-08, 17:54

mark5pt56,

I understand what you are saying. I'm talking about drills shooters perform after they have the basic fundamentals of shooting or quality initial training. I'm not talking about discarding the basics though. What I was trying to get at was, as a hypothetical (which also describes myself). I'm a guy that has attended a few training classes, carbine and pistol, and I want to continue to develop and refine my skills. What are drills that "you all" perform to get a "valuable" training session. Maybe I read you response wrong, just wanting some ideas to go to the range and get a good "workout" of skills, so to speak. Thanks.

Jay Cunningham

05-13-08, 18:26

However it is only 90 rounds, and I'm guessing it would take just a few minutes to accomplish. I'm looking for ideas for pistol and carbine, conditions would be between 200-300 rounds, and have approximately 1 hour at the range.

Honestly, I think 200-300 rounds in an hour range session is way too much.

400 rounds in an 8 hour range session is quite reasonable. Remember, quality over quantity.

mark5pt56

05-13-08, 19:35

Blake, No worries. This is for the benefit of other readers. Also, without knowing you, I don't know your level.

The fundementals are something alot of people over look. Let's look at it this way, when you go to the gym, do you "warm up" with at least two sets of a light weight that allows you to prepare your body parts for the main session, which is in increments? This also allows you to check your form and make adjustments if necessary to insure you are doing it right so you can continue to progress with more difficult sets. If you don't, you risk injury because you aren't prepared to go further.

Same thing with shooting, the "injury" you would suffer is consciously "programing" your long term memory with bad input and performing that scar when it will cost you.

TheKatar is right, for an hour, I don't have a set number of rounds. That may be dependent on what drills you do and time for set up, review, etc. Make every round count, mainly because each time you do something, you are programming your subconscious(quality, quality qaulity) You know when you've reached the point when you are not mentally aware enough to do it right. I know you've had those classes/sessions when you get done and are mentally drained. By yourself, you are getting more repitition quicker and will reach that point sooner.

I would say if you are pressed for time, narrow your focus on the number of manipulation drill you want to work on.

A quick sample warm up

Set up a target at a distance that will make you use your sights(example-3" dot at 10 yards)
Dry fire 10-20 times
Come from a ready the same number of times and dry fire
Draw and dry fire.
Shoot 5-10 rounds slow untimed from 2 hands, SHO, WHO
(when slow fire, don't shoot a set with 10 shots, shoot 10 sets with one shot--but still follow through)
Now do the same from a ready under time.

Maybe that's all you got to today.
Next time, maybe work on draws and reloads.
Repeat warm up
Now do some one shot draws
Now add another target for multiple shots
Now add slide lock reload.

Keep adding to what you do and record times, scores from targets, etc to track progress.

Try to use your imagination and tailor your drills to your needs. I would recommend that you draw from different disciplines to address what you want to do.

Let's say you want to start IPSC, using those targets at varying distances with hard cover, no shoots etc would be more appropriate to practice on to help you know what you need to see with your sights to make the required shots.

I stress the fundemental because so many people either forget or think it's beneath them to constantly review them.

Concerning Test or courses, do them cold if you can to get a more accurate measure of your abilities under various conditions.

Mark

Blake

05-13-08, 20:00

Basically I was on the seat of knowledge (the crapper), when I started thinking about 3 or 4 different range sessions (not limited to those, just something for the tool box) you could have to run through different fundamentals. I have taken a LAV class in the past, and he highly recommends shooting on the move should be incorporated in to your training sessions, but I know it is easy to get in the mode of static fire inside the "comfort zone". I would agree that could be a lot of rounds, but if you dump a 3 or 4 full mags of 5.56, you are at the 100 mark. I wasn't looking for something to ensure a high round count, but to incorporate several different skills in a session.

I was also thinking about how smart warm-ups are. I've read about mixed arguments about starting slow and moving on to tougher drills. Of course the argument against starting slow are there are no warm-ups in a gunfight. I don't know that I have the experience to have an opinion on the matter.

mark5pt56

05-13-08, 20:12

That's why I suggest doing any courses or competitions cold, they are test, different people's thought of what a gun fight may involve or a percieved standard base don that or what's a norm for a cross section of skill levels.

On the review or warm up, that can be tailored to accomodate other training, maybe hit the harder stuff more but still do the base drills.

My last range session had a lot of shooting on the move with both weapons. Why? because they are the hardest for me(like most) and I need more work with them to build my skill.

My thought on courses are this-put a rat in maze and sooner or later he will find his way out. The more you do course, the more familar you are with it and the better you will do.
Maybe do different ones here and there to test your progress with training or compare your skill with others or levels listed by the course designer.
Be mindful of parameters of course because some are geared towards lets say a person with open carry with speed rigs and the time standards on some of the drills are not workable with a trooper with a full load out kit, etc.

Mark

ToddG

05-14-08, 22:19

There is no one-size-fits-all approach to training. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, different range capabilities, different amounts of time and ammo, different goals.

A few general things that work for me:
I use the same exact warm-up drill every time I go to the range, and track my performance on that drill. This gives me a way to measure how I'm shooting cold.
Don't burn out on one skill or type of drill. Some people will go and work on speed speed speed for two hours, but they're not really practicing much. I'll do some speed work, then marksmanship practice, then work on gun handling (reloads, malfs, etc.). If I've got the time and ammo, I'll cycle back through or start focusing on the things that I didn't do as well as I should.
Have goals & and a plan. Don't just go to the range "to shoot" or "to practice." Know what you're going to do, how you're going to practice. You don't need a strict step by step program, but things like "work on weak hand only shooting" or "fix that problem I had with my reloads" would be appropriate to have on your list.
Understand the difference between shooting and practicing. Fifty rounds of practice beats 500 rounds of shooting.
You can't trust your sense of time when shooting. If you don't have a shot timer or some other objective measure, you have no idea whether you're doing something faster or slower.
You will rise or fall to the level of those with whom you associate. Get a good shooting partner or group of guys who are better than you, who can push you to perform. Sometimes it's good to shoot by yourself, but working regularly with good (read "better") shooters will do more for you than just about anything else.

tjcoker

05-14-08, 23:16

I've been doing a lot of what LAV had me and my training partner do in his class. Aubrey's AAR is a good reminder for me of the drills that we did. The 10 rounds in 10 seconds from the holster at 10 yards into a 5" bull is my favorite to put myself through a couple times a range session. I do this now from both left and right (strong) two handed shooting. It's kind of cool to put my buddies on this drill at 7 yards and then show em it can be done at 10 yards weak side... :)

I also enjoy working the pivoting that LAV showed us. I'll through that in a lot now so as to make my shooting a bit more difficult from a fixed point.

Scotty Reitz of ITTS taught me to not shoot from the same location twice. His stated reason was that he never met a suspect who let him have a do-over shot if he had missed. So I also tend to walk all over the range and take shots from varying angles, distances, stances, and shooting hands. It drives my regular training partner nuts.

I also invested in a timer like Todd mentioned. A shot timer is real cool to run the timed drills... but it is also neat to see how long it's taking me to come out of the holster and get off my shots too.

I also work transitions from my AR or shotgun a lot.

The box drill as LAV showed me, along with other movement drills keep me humble.

Anytime I walk back to reload from the truck I call for a "walk back drill" as LAV also showed me. That is really cool for keeping the fun factor up between myself and whomever is out training with me.

We usually practice for 2-4 hours. A box of shotgun shells or 90~ rifle rounds and 100-150 handgun rounds is the usual if we go all 4 hours. Sometimes it's slower if we bring out someone from my jail who isn't as used to shooting.

I really try to mix it up to keep from getting fat dumb and happy. I like that comment about training outside of your comfort zone.

Tim.

30 cal slut

05-15-08, 06:41

AAR is a good reminder for me of the drills that we did.

Amen. I've taken two LAV classes and have written down (just about) every drill that we ran. These drills are for practicing skills, such as shooting on the move, turns, malf and reload drills, etc. Basic stuff, all of which, I just realized, can be dry-fire practiced.

My challenge is finding a range that will allow me to live-fire practice as I desire. For example, in my neck of the woods, I have a tough time finding a range that will let me shoot .223 carbine inside of 75 yards. Turning and moving? Shooting at night? Fuhgedabouddit.

There are a few things I've taken away from LAV on practicing:

1) Train outside your comfort zone - regularly.
2) If you're practicing right, after 200-300 rounds TOPs, you're gonna be junk (and with .223 what it is, broke).

One of my favorite LAV drills is to shoot at a 200 yard target with your weak side (derived from his infamous walkback drill) from low read or switch-shoulder. At first, it was like trying to wipe yer a$$ with yer toes, but then over the course of 50 or so rounds, it began to feel natural and gradually accuracy improved. I still can't hit the side of a barn relative to other folks I've trained with, but I'm hopeful that I can improve over time.

Sam

05-15-08, 08:28

I've seen Mr. Hackathorn's IDPA classifier with the M4, seems like a great "practice" session. However it is only 90 rounds, and I'm guessing it would take just a few minutes to accomplish.

Like you said, there are many drills and others who have taken LAV's carbine courses are familiar with dozens of excellent drills. Do not overlook Ken's modified IDPA classifier (MIDPAC) for the carbine. It is an excellent set of drills. Do not think that 90 rounds is not sufficient. If shooting it once doesn't float your boat, shoot it twice, three times, ammo is only money at 35 cents a round.
The MIDPAC has all of the element for skill building such as:

Pprecision shots (head)
Relative close range of 15 yds. (as in CQB if you want to use cool terms)Maximum range of 40 yds. (lets you set it up in most pistol bays of many gun clubs, as most gun clubs frown on using their 100 yd or longer range for one individual usage)
Shooting on the move (forward, backward, lateral)
Reloading
Transitioning to support side
Shooting around barricade
Multiple targets

I've used it for practice many times since Ken showed it to me. It takes a single shooter a little longer than an hour to run through from setting up to administering the COF, reloading, pasting targets between stages, etc. If you want to make it tougher, shoot it during low light (dusk). I've seen my scores improved, not to the super combat wombat ninja master level yet, but improving. Shoot it with 5.56mm or shoot it with .22LR if you have a conversion kit.

Don't discount it, give it a try, you'll appreciate it.

ToddG

05-15-08, 13:58

2) If you're practicing right, after 200-300 rounds TOPs, you're gonna be junk (and with .223 what it is, broke).

That's far too broad a generalization. Some people fatigue (arms, eyes, and/or brain) faster than others.

More importantly, if you're practicing right you should not burn out after just a couple hundred rounds. I've put plenty of students through an 800+ rnd/day program and while folks might have sore thumbs by the end, they're still learning and improving. It's all about pace, keeping focus (your own or the students' as appropriate), and switching things up so the drills stay interesting.

Now, 200-300 rounds of practice is certainly good, and there's no point in shooting more just for the sake of launching lead downrange. But setting some kind of arbitrary round count isn't necessary or productive.

markm

05-15-08, 14:23

For pistol sessions.... I personally don't subscribe to "warm-ups". I don't condemn them, but for me... I just jump right in.

There will be No warm up prior to an actual shooting, so I don't want to become dependant on that step in my training.... and translate that to expected failure in a real life shooting because I didn't get to warm up.

I will jump right in to draw and fire drills as quickly as I can get set up. Now somewhere during the session, I'll step it back and do dry firing depending on how good/bad my live fire is going.

ToddG

05-15-08, 14:33

I will jump right in to draw and fire drills as quickly as I can get set up.

My warm-up drill is to draw and engage a 5x8 card at 7yd with as many hits as I can get in a given time period. By keeping track of how many hits I get when I'm "cold" I have an idea of where my actual skill and preparedness are that day, and over time.

markm

05-15-08, 14:45

How do you feel about shooting different platforms or shooting rimfire during the session?

I know guys who are against shooting non Glock platforms for fear of messing up their trigger control.

And I've had instructors who've felt that shooting rimfire pistol will hurt your carry/duty weapon shooting.

ME? I shoot any and every gun I can get my hands on. I'll easily switch over to rimfire for a while. I find that it settles down my trigger control on my real pistols quite a bit.

I like to break up anything resembling a regiment when it comes to practice.

ToddG

05-15-08, 14:59

That's a loaded question, pardon the pun.

I'm not a big fan of jumping from gun to gun. We call it Simon's Inverse Multi-gun Paradox, aka The SIMP Principle (http://pistol-training.com/archives/70).

I'm neutral on the .22 kit thing, though. My personal experience is that it encourages sloppiness in grip and other recoil management skills. At the same time, it can be incredibly beneficial for working on marksmanship, reset, and gun handling skills. With the price of ammo going through the roof, it's hard to tell people not to use a .22 kit. I just think you need to stay away from anything related to fast multiple shots. A .22 kit is essentially dry-fire with a bullet hole and slide action.

Another thing I'd recommend for someone going the .22 kit route: start and end every shooting session with your "regular" full power ammo. Put the rimfire practice in the middle. Get to the range and confirm you're doing things right. Before you leave the range, get the feel of full recoil back.

markm

05-15-08, 15:05

That's kinda what I do. I don't do the conversion kit thing, although a guy I know has a nice glock unit. I just have a Ruger MkII that I'll shoot with... generally in mid session.

But I agree. I like the last pistol mag I shoot to be full caliber ammo.

Failure2Stop

05-15-08, 15:23

I'm not a big fan of jumping from gun to gun. We call it Simon's Inverse Multi-gun Paradox, aka The SIMP Principle (http://pistol-training.com/archives/70).

That Simon is a smart guy. In fact, he belatedly convinced me to buy a *gag* M9. It's just solid logic.

Re: Original Topic-

There needs to be a plan to your training. Would you pay for a course in which the instructor simply reads off commands? No (or at least I hope not). He is supposed to identify and correct weaknesses or faults, and work through them. You should be doing the same thing.

I have a strong aversion to practicing qualifications as a method of training. A qualification is a test of ability, not the ability to pass a test.
Think of it this way-
You practice the El Prez several times a day, every day for a month straight. You will now be very proficient in that drill, possibly scoring well ahead of your class. However, you are not really that class of shooter. You are whatever class you are, but with an El Prez specific skill-set. (Not the best example, but I figured everybody knows what an El Pres is).
The same issue can come from fixed drill cards.

Identify the desired end-result and train to achieve that goal, skill by skill, with reinforcing skills, as well as separate skill-sets to maintain and improve the overall ability.

Just my .02, in 2008 dollars.

Wayne Dobbs

05-15-08, 15:39

Lots of good points have been brought out here. Some things I try to remember (and some have been listed here):

1. Have a practice plan - don't just go and blast ammo downrange.
2. Start and finish with accuracy driven drills (I usually shoot a 10 shot group at 15-25 yards with a pistol to begin and end the session).
3. Practice skills you don't like to do and/or aren't very good at (yet!).
4. In line with #3, get out of your comfort zone. We learn very little doing the same thing we've always done.
5. Work HARD on excellent trigger control at all shot delivery speeds and distances.

markm

05-15-08, 15:40

The SIMP Principle (http://pistol-training.com/archives/70)

Oh! I didn't catch that link when I read your post the first time! :p

I'm definitely not a SIMP. I have a very streamlined approach to the number of pistols I own. And believe in mastering my carry weapon (almost at an obsessive compulsive level). But it kinda goes back to my warm up philosophy... I wouldn't want to be in panic mode if I had to fire a different gun than I've done all of my training and practice on.

Jay Cunningham

07-11-08, 21:00

I just got done merging and cleaning up about 9 older threads all covering drills.

This new composite thread will be stickied in the T&T forum for future reference.

:D

~Thekatar

dojpros

07-19-08, 00:37

Lots of good info in this thread.

Thank You.

MAP

07-19-08, 07:48

CAPT KIRK

08-28-08, 04:16

I am kinda new around this site, but am seriously appreciating some of the info here. I too do a lot of dry fire, and my range work has a focus of making every round count, because in Law Enforcement every round must be accounted for. All that said, I thought I might contribute this little drill of mine which focuses more on staying in the fight, but shot placement is never compromised.

R.A.T.
(Reload And Transition)
Weapons Drill

EQUIPMENT:
• Primary (P) Weapon and Handgun (H)
• Load bearing gear to carry loaded magazines.
• (P) Magazines loaded with 4 rounds each.
• (H) Magazines fully loaded.

START:

• (P) Double Tap (Controlled Pair) from Strong Side.
• (P) Safety On / Transition to Weak Side.
• (P) Double Tap from Weak Side.
• (P) Weapon now empty / Safety On / Transition to Handgun.
• (H) Double Tap from Strong and Weak Side.
• (H) Holster / Secure Handgun.
• (P) Transition back to Primary Weapon and reload.

(Repeat)

Notes:

• Dummy rounds may be introduced to include malfunction procedures into this Drill.
• Primary magazines may be loaded with 6 rounds to provide for “Fail Safes” in the drill instead of “Double Taps”.
• Handgun reloads as needed.

decodeddiesel

11-12-08, 10:22

Hobbes, heres my basic drills to keep me up with the training is down.

I try to do 15-20minutes of dry practice a day or at least 3 times a week if im busy.

So I start with breaking down all the fundamentals...

I wish this warm up drill would have been covered in the "extras" of the Magpul Dynamics Video.

SingleStacker45

12-16-08, 22:05

Here is a coarse that will work the accuracy skills with the rifle. Got it from some "army guy". 50 rounds and a par timer or a buddy with a stopwatch required.

500 pt best score on SR21 target.

1st string prone 10 shots 1 minute 100 yards
2nd string seated 10 shots 1 minute 75 yards
3rd string knealing 10 shots 1 minute 50 yards
4th string standing 10 shots 1 minute 25 yards
5th string standing 10 shots 30 secinds 15 yards

Try to beat 490.

I have yet to beat 475 but its getting close.

Mule

toddackerman

12-17-08, 06:58

SingleStacker45

12-17-08, 12:33

On what type of target and with what optics/ sights.?

SR21 100 yard Rifle Bull

Whatever sights you shoot best with. Eotech, irons, etc.

I use a weaver 1x3 scope. This drill will help you iron out your holds at varying distance.

Mule

Leprechaun

12-23-08, 13:29

Try this one.It is a tough one.

BASIC DRILL

Shooter will start this drill with a 5 round magazine in his weapon. He will also have a 10 round magazine loaded and on his person. Target is an 8” circle

Shooter will position himself at the 50 yard line.

On command the shooter will fire 5 rounds standing, reload as he assumes the kneeling position then fire 5 rounds, drops down to a prone position and fire the remaining 5 rounds.

Time limit is 20 seconds.

Once the shooter can keep all 15 rounds in the circle (100%) move to advanced drill.

ADVANCED DRILL

Shooter will start this drill with (2)-10 round magazines. He will have a 10 round magazine loaded in his weapon. Target will be the same 8” circle.

Shooter will position himself at the 100 yard line.

On command the shooter will have 4 seconds to fire 1 shot. This is repeated for 10 rounds

Next stage the shooter will then have 5 seconds to fire a “double tap” at the same target. This will be repeated 5 times for a total of 10 rounds.

A score of 80% on this drill is desired.

GLOCKMASTER

02-03-09, 20:47

The following are four rifle drills that I really like.

VTAC Highsmith Rifle Drill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZJzJGawqLs&feature=PlayList&p=7352E2E0CD129465&index=0)

VTAC Zig Zag Rifle Drill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q55MHk8Q-2E&feature=PlayList&p=7352E2E0CD129465&index=3)

VTAC 2x2x2 Drill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVGPEgRZwIw&feature=PlayList&p=7352E2E0CD129465&index=5)

VTAC 1-5 Drill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaCpOt9xVy4&feature=channel_page)

JLM

03-17-09, 05:43

CAPT KIRK

03-17-09, 11:03

mjpsyr

04-03-09, 15:33

Here's a drill to work on transitions and getting the gun back in the fight. This drill is done within 25yds. Primary weapon- two 30 round mags and one empty mag. Secondary weapon- loaded with a total of 40 rounds. To start, load up your secondary weapon. Then take one of the 30 rd mags and load you primary. Take that mag out and put it in your primary pouch. Insert an empty mag. Now you have 1 rd in your primary and an empty mag. Start from low ready. Get on target and attempt to fire two rounds. This is to get used to pressing the trigger until you get a click, because when the SHTF you might not notice that you ran empty from the feel of the bolt locking back. When you get a click, transition to your secondary and fire two rds. Scan, take cover (if available), holster your secondary. Now load your primary to back in the fight and fire two rds. When your done, scan and put the weapon on safe. Then simply take that mag out of you primary, replace it with the empty and repeat. For each drill you end up firing 3 rds from your primary and 2 rds from your secondary (you'll do this a total of 20 times before you run empty). There's a lot of weapons handling going on so you get some work on being familiar with your weapon systems.

Failure2Stop

06-03-09, 19:20

I use a modified FAST as one of the final evaluations in one of my courses. As such I recommend treating it as an evaluation, not something to to practiced repeatedly (no more than 2X per day).

Here is the setup and drill-
5 meters (not that it makes a big difference)
Target- standard IPSC
Shooter is wearing full body-armor and helmet.
Pistol is in the holster with all applicable retention features, loaded and made ready with a magazine of 2 rounds (1 in the mag, 1 in the pipe), reload pouch contains a magazine with 4 rounds.
-Holsters range from SERPA (bleah) to 6004 with my students.
Primary weapon is pointed at the target, off safe, finger on trigger

On beep, transition and shoot as per normal (in this course the primary [non-AR] must be placed "on safe" during the transition, don't ask). By "normal" I mean two shots to the head "A" zone, reload, four shots to the torso "A" zone.

Penalties- head shots outside the "A", in the "B"- add .25 seconds.
Head shot miss- add 1 sec (includes shots dropped into the body)
Body shot outside the "A", in the "C"- add .5 seconds.
Body shots outside the "C"- automatic fail.
"Gaming" the test (such as failing to drop the hammer on the primary or dropping the hammer during the transition)- automatic fail.

Pass standard- 9 seconds or less with penalties (not all that difficult).
Advanced standard- 2 runs of 6 seconds or less with penalties.

Failure2Stop

06-07-09, 23:57

Thought I would throw some more rifle drills into the thread as it is kinda lacking, and this is M4Carbine.net after all :p

Offset Accountability-
Target- 2” Sighting Paster. Any 2” dot will work. Distribute the 5 dots around the target, about 12 inches apart
Distance- 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25 yards
Ammo- 5 rounds per distance, per iteration
Position- Standing Alert
Drill- Fire a single shot from the alert, ensuring that the bullet strikes the 2” dot. Conduct the drill 5X with no time pressure at each distance working on as much precision as possible, changing targets at each distance.
Once you can hit the target comfortably at all distances repeat the drill with a shot timer set on a 3 second par time. Reduce the par time in ½ second increments until you find your optimal balance of speed and accuracy at each distance. Once this time is established and recorded push yourself to get your hits faster. Do not sacrifice accuracy for speed. If you are missing more than 2 shots when you try to speed up, back it off a bit and push again. Do not expect to be making 1 second hits at 25 the first time you do it.
Purpose- Many people simply work precision at close range by working head-shots to IPSC type targets. While this will teach you how to hit the head reliably, the goal of the drill is to be able to hit a small target on demand and to be intimately aware of where the strike of round will be in relation to your aiming point at close range.

Up and Down-
Target- ½ of a 3x5 index card (3X2.5, turned lengthwise) and a 6” circle (pie plate), or whatever expedient method provides the same obvious target. Place the small target 6 to 12 inches above the 6” circle. The further away the targets are from each other the more beneficial the drill will be to perfect the skill of driving the gun, but will reduce the primary intent of the drill.
Distance- 10 yards
Ammo- 10 rounds
Position- Standing
Drill- On start signal, fire a pair to the bottom target then immediately transition to the small target and fire a pair, then back to the bottom, then up to the top, etc. For clarity’s sake it will go like this- B,T,B,T,B. It is easier to just have a mag with 10 rounds instead of trying to count rounds while doing the drill. Start out with no time limit, working on accuracy and settling the gun. Record the time needed to have no misses on either target while working quickly. Work to decrease the time as much as possible without missing more than one shot to the small target.
Purpose- We are trying to balance speed and accuracy while quickly driving the gun vertically and managing recoil. It reinforces achieving fast hits on a generous target and immediately switching gears to get precise hits by stopping the gun on the correct aim point and immediately speeding up for the large target, and so on. Be sure to vary the distance between targets frequently to avoid simply creating a skill/movement rut. Once you are comfortable with this drill, change the starting target to the small target and change it up every few runs. As this becomes easier, change the position of the small target so that it is at an angle to the large target. We want to be comfortable moving the gun quickly and precisely in any direction.

Stop and Go-
(Similar to the pistol X-Drill)
Target- ½ of a 3x5 index card (3x2.5, turned lengthwise) and a 6” circle (pie plate), or whatever expedient method provides the same obvious target. Setup two targets at least 3 yards apart each with a 6” circle and a 3x2.5 6 to 12 inches above the circle. The further away the two target stands are from each other, the more benefit the drill will have to increase transition skill.
Distance- 10 yards
Ammo- 4 rounds/8 rounds
Position- Standing Alert
Drill- On start signal engage the right 6” circle, drive to the left 6” circle, then drive to the right 3x2.5, and finish on the left 3x2.5. Change the drill up to vary the start target and direction of the flow and record times, working to cut time. When you are smooth and accurate, change the drill so that you go from the 6 to the 3x2.5 to the other 3x2.5 and finish on the final plate. When that is going well, shoot 2 rounds per target.
Purpose- The goal of the drill is ultimately to drive the gun smoothly and surely between laterally dispersed targets while appreciating accuracy needs and applying offset for multiple shots. Work on dropping the optic out of the line of sight, shifting the head and eyes to the next target, and driving the sights to the line of sight during target transitions.

The Inhaler-
Target- 6” paper plate or 6” steel plate. Steel is better so you don’t have to walk down to repair the target.
Advanced- Shotgun Clay Target
Distance- You will need 200 yards, but will only be firing 100 yards.
Ammo- 1 round
Position- Start position: Standing Alert
Firing Position: Prone
Drill- Set par time for 27 seconds. On start signal run from the 200 to the 100, assume the prone and hit the plate with a single shot. No make-up shots. If you miss, repeat until you can hit the 6” steel plate in the par time. If you hit, note your time. Catch your breath, reduce the par time to your time minus 0.5 seconds and do it again.
Purpose- To truly understand and apply breath control. When it comes to precision rifle work people tend to approach it like they are doing brain surgery. Sometimes we have to do very physical things and make a precision shot (6” ain’t all that precise as it is) as soon as we can. This drill is a stress test: physically, mentally, and technically. You better know your POA/POI at 100 and able to rapidly apply it. Breath control is not just about exhaling to the natural respiratory pause, but being able to control your body’s desire for more oxygen in order to achieve an accurate shot. When you have settled into a time that is limited by your running speed and not your ability to hit the target, reduce the target from a 6” plate to a shotgun clay target.
SAFETY NOTE- Running with a loaded firearm is inherantly DANGEROUS, especially so if you are STUPID and/or CARELESS. Obey the 4 rules of firearms safety. If you start to fall, just let the gun go. If you have any doubts if you can do this drill safely, don’t do it, or do it with an empty gun and load when you get to the 100 (you get to extend your start time to 30 seconds for being honest). This is a physical event, so if you haven’t run more than 10 yards in so many years, bring along an EMT. If you shoot yourself, someone else, have a heart-attack, or break a hip, it is your own fault. You have been warned.

Wobbly 8
Target- 2 IDPA Targets, laterally separated
Distance- 15 yards
Alt: >pistol transition distance
Ammo- 1 mag of 8 rounds
Alt: 2 mags of 4 rounds
Position- Standing, behind cover
Alt: Kneeling, behind cover
Other- Requires a piece of cover, at least as tall as the shooter, approx 3 feet wide (el cheapo interior door from Lowes works well)
Drill- Setup targets 15 yards from the piece of cover. Neither target should be visible when standing 1.5 to 2 yards behind the piece of cover, but should be positioned so that one target is visible when leaning to either side without requiring a foot shift.
On start signal engage around the strong side of cover (use it as cover, not support, barrel should not extend forward of the piece of cover) and engage the visible target with a pair, switch hands to a support-side grip/position and engage with a pair from the support side, switch back to strong side and engage with a pair, and finish up with a pair from the support side. Simply- engage from each side twice, switching from strong to support. Note time.
Once you have run this drill enough to be comfortable fully switching sides and getting timely accurate hits, work on simply placing the stock in the support side shoulder without changing grip, thereby maintaining the "normal" firing grip but from the support shoulder and firing with the support side eye. Note time.
Once you have become comfortable and effective using the support side without switching your grip, run the drill back to back, once using a full grip transition and once using only a shoulder transition. Note time difference.
Now run the drill with 2 magazines of 4 rounds. Begin the drill engaging to the strong side, forcing a reload while the gun is in the support shoulder. After the reload, reengage the support side target and finish up on the strong side. If you routinely carry a sidearm you might want to push the targets out past your transition distance to avoid improper training. Alternate running the drill by switching grip and switching shoulder alone.
Alternate: run the same drill, but from a kneeling position. Try out switching knees and two-kneed kneeling positions.
Purpose- Become smooth and fluid with bilateral shooting, using cover, and manipulating the weapon in unusual positions from the most relevant and commonly used gunfight positions. To enhance the manipulation aspect you can throw a few dummy rounds into each magazine, but be sure to add just as many live as you do dummy so that you can fire two successive shots per engagement after clearing the stoppage.

Have fun, train safe, train smart, train hard, train often.
Your life may depend on it.

BLACK LION

08-03-09, 15:24

What I like to do to re-inforce some basics and essentials is run everything weak hand or in my case, left handed. I only run 1 shotgun, 1 pistol and one AR so I didnt have to fight too much to get proficient with all my rigs. Its alarming how many people cannot shoot weak hand...let alone draw, move and shoot, clear malfunctions and other more stressful things. I have discovered that finding weaknesses in my left side led to finding weakness and inconsistency overall...with that template I can accurately address the overall picture and not just a one sided picture.
Lots of good stuff here guys, thank you.

Take care out there...

Failure2Stop

10-21-09, 19:05

Some good intermediate skill level carbine/rifle drills:

A recent post brought up the MD BSA Drill, which is a very good drill.
HERE (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=479001#post479001) is a link to the original thread and post by Travis.

Balance of Speed & Accuracy (BSA Drill/Qual)

100 rds total fired from Rifle, all rds fired into the torso (10in circle) on target the first time we do this in a class we cut out the circle completly so that other shooters cant look up and down the line and see who has the tight little groups. This theory pushes each shooter to their individual failure point and when they miss they (or hit paper) they know they have reached it.

This Drill was designed by MD instructors to help shooters continue to climb the ladder of excellence. No matter what level we are at be it: beginner, novice, SPECOPs, CIA Ground Branch 007, Grand Master, badass etc.... we always have the ability to excel. (this will be seen in AOTTC II)

Example #1: If you are a beginner shooter and your fundementals are good and consistant but are getting a 40% hit rate on the BSA and barely making the times then you have reached your failure point and the direction of traingin is obvious.

EXample #2: IF You are an "Advance Shooter" and you are getting your hits in 1.5 sec and you are meeting the time and you are getting tight little groups then you are NOT reaching your failure point and can become even faster.

It was also designed to get 100% if the perfect balance of speed and accuracy were found and the core principles of Efficency, Consistancy, & Reality were executed.

5yrd line
Dynamic Stance
Time: 2 sec par on shot clock
total rds: 20
-4rds per iteration, 5 iterations

10yrd line
Dynamic Stance
Time: 2 sec par on shot clock
total rds: 20
-4rds per iteration, 5 iterations

15yrd line
Dynamic Stance
Time: 2 sec par on shot clock
total rds: 20
-4rds per iteration, 5 iterations

25yrd line
Dynamic Stance
Time: 2 sec par on shot clock
total rds: 10
-2rds per iteration, 5 iterations

50yrd line
Dynamic Stance
Time: 2 sec par on shot clock
total rds: 10
-2rds per iteration, 5 iterations

75yrd line
on Beep go from standing to Dynamic Kneeling fire 2 shots
Time: 4 sec par on shot clock
total rds: 10
-2rds per iteration, 5 iterations

100yrd line
On Beep go from standing to Dynamic Prone then fire 2 shots.
Time: 4 sec par on shot clock
total rds: 10
-2rds per iteration, 5 iterations

Another excellent drill is from VTAC, the Half and Half Drill.
10 shots
Target- 8" Circle
Distance- 20 yards
Position- Standing Alert
Time- 10 seconds

Once successful, and maintaining the same accuracy standard, move onto:
10 shots
Distance- 10 yards
Position- Standing Alert
Time- 5 seconds

Once successful, and maintaining the same accuracy standard, move onto:
10 shots
Distance- 5 yards
Position- Standing Alert
Time- 2.5 seconds

This drill forces the shooter to rapidly assume an aggressive recoil controlling position, rapidly drive the gun to the target to acquire the sights, and deliver 10 shots at a distance-relevant cadence.

mercop

10-22-09, 09:18

MCS Drop Step Control Drill

Student walks down range with another student simulating loved one (protectee) on his reaction side. A visual cue is introduced, in this case a tennis ball. Student utilizes his natural reaction side arm to gain control of his protectee while drawing his pistol one handed and engages target. Primary goal is to take control of and move the protectee while placing yourself between the protectee the threat while creating distance to the direction offered in the environment. The second goal is to put effective rounds on the target. Be sure to look at the position of the tennis ball in the pictures. It takes the average person 3/4 of a second to process and decide a response to a given stimuli. When you are told that upon seeing the ball you need to use both of your hands, gain distance and engage the target...well, things get a little crazy. No quite as easy as putting rounds in to a target using both hands in reaction to a buzzer.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/mercop/C1.jpg?t=1256214415

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/mercop/C2.jpg?t=1256214539

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/mercop/C3.jpg?t=1256214594

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/mercop/C4.jpg?t=1256214637

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/mercop/C6.jpg?t=1256214684

Failure2Stop

10-22-09, 17:15

mercop-
With regard to the drill you posted above:
Why use a common non-threatening item to cue lethal force?
What is your acceptable accuracy standard?
What is the distance envelope you are applying this technique to?
How many rounds are to be fired or what is the signal to stop firing?
What is the time goal for first shot and drill completion?

Thanks

mercop

10-24-09, 09:50

mercop-
With regard to the drill you posted above:
Why use a common non-threatening item to cue lethal force? Because tennis balls are cheap, easy to carry, can be introduced from anywhere on the range and can be color coded for shoot don’t shoot. And throwing knives at students would most likely anger them;)

What is your acceptable accuracy standard? All shots Center line from groin to head..

What is the distance envelope you are applying this technique to? Conversational distance, I usually use the example of how close you would be arguing over a parking space.

How many rounds are to be fired or what is the signal to stop firing? During this particular I say 3-5 but that is not cast in stone. I call cease fire.

What is the time goal for first shot and drill completion? During this class I never give the students a time, I don’t have to, they always go as fast as they can anyway. First we do this with Blue Guns, and then airsoft, then live fire, and then back to airsoft for force on force. When doing this live I start with a regular target, then onto one balloon. Then onto two balloons on two targets. The balloons, water balloon size are a great training tool. It is amazing how people become fixated on popping the balloon and when they fail to do so, stop moving and continue to fire instead of moving to a better position as instructed.

Pathfinder Ops

01-14-10, 16:45

htxred

01-25-10, 17:36

i did the BSA template today and set out my 100 rounds but only made it to the 25 yard line. :( out of 100, 27 were outside the 8inch circle (IDPA target) with the farthest one being about 2 and half inches out.

VMI-MO

03-10-10, 12:59

DISCLAIMER: these drills require alot of movement which is potentially dangerous. Use your head, do not be stupid, follow the firearms safety rules.

Tourettes Guy

Shooter starts at either the 0m line or the 200m line depending on the capabilities of the range. The shooters primary weapon is left at the 100m line in condition 4. The shooter is in full kit/battle rattle/ or whatever gear he finds himself in the most.

Shooter sprints 25m, drops and does 10pushups. Shooter then sprints the next 25m and does 10 burpees. Shooter sprints 25m again and does 10 star jumpers.
Shooter then sprints to the 100m line. He will then pick up his rifle, load and make ready then proceed to engage a 10”x10” steel plate or similar sized reactive target for instant feed back from the standing position. Once the shooter has hit the target twice he then begins the following course of fire
Range Position Target Rds
100m prone COM 5
75m sitting COM 5
50m kneeling COM 5
25m standing COM 5
15m standing Brain Box 5
15m-7m Moving fwd COM 5
7m Standing 3rds COM/2rds Brain

Time is continuous from when you first start the 25m sprint to when you fire the last shot. Do not walk to each different range. SPRINT.

The point of this drill is to run through the entire thing as fast as possible, while still scoring accurate hits. You will be gassed, breathing heavy, your heart rate will be up. This will force you to overcome this unpleasantness and get the hits you need. It will also give you practice in assuming quick/hasty prone, kneeling and sitting positions. Finally this drill will shake out your kit and expose anything that might be hampering mobility.

I have always used the (-0) zone of an IDPA and a 3”x5” brain box. However, after some recent shooting I will be switching my COM to a 5”x8” box.

The original idea for this drill came from Paul Howe’s 100-7 drill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7MXPH1Fg_8

She’s a Bitch
The credit for this Drill goes entirely to Rob Shaul at Military athlete www.militaryathlete.com

10 Rounds for Time
5x Up Downs (burpee in full kit and helmet - except don't do the jump and clap)
1x hit on Target from the prone position on an 8”-10” reactive target

Proficiencey levels
LEVEL I - Complete in 12 minutes, 60 round limit broken into 6 mags @ 10 rounds each
LEVEL 2 - Complete in 9 minutes, 45 round limit broken into 5 mags @ 9 rounds each
LEVEL 3 - Complete in 6 minutes, 30 round limit, broken into 6 mags @ 5 rounds each
LEVEL 4 - Complete in 3 minutes, 15 round limit, broken into 5 mags @ 3 rounds each

http://www.youtube.com/user/robshaul#p/u/14/gvw9ECvyRio

18 Hole Sprint
This drill was originally based off of VTAC’s 9 hole drill.

For the setup there are two VTAC barricades arranged 10m-25m apart at the 100m line. For the range I use this is limited to about 15-18m apart.

The shooter is in full kit and starts 1m back from the target. On the go command he moves forward to the first port on the barricade. He engages a reactive target until he scores a hit. Once he has scored one hit he makes movement to the other barricade to score a hit through another port. The shooter continues to move from barricade to barricade and shoots through each port until a hit is scored. Once the shooter has scored a hit through each port on each barricade the drill ends.

The purpose of this drill is to become proficient in quickly dropping into alternative shooting positions when gassed and on the move. I have noticed a lot of people just settle into an alternative position and fire a few rounds. This helps some, but forcing the shooter to learn the body mechanics of assuming different positions while stressed and tired will only teach the shooter more about his strengths and weaknesses and give him more confidence in his abilities.

Back and Forth
Shooter stands 10-20m away from two targets that are spaced at least 10-15m apart. On the go command the shooter engages the first target with 2rds COM, then drives his weapon to the second target and puts 2rds COM. Shooter drive the weapon back to the first target and puts 2rds into a 3”x5” brain box, then proceeds to do the same to the second target.

This drill really requires and forces the shooter to drive the gun hard in order to get satisfactory times. The brain box shots were added at the final stage of the drill to force the shooter to slow down, pick up his sights and push for accurate hits instead of blazing and a COM target.

Fight Gone Bad (Not the Cross fit one)
The matrix below shows the rounds allotted to what target at what range. This entire course of fire is run continuously. Once time starts it does not end until the shooters final shot at the 100m mark. The shooter starts at the 0m mark. All shooting is done from the standing or a “dynamic kneeling” position.
Range Target Rds
25m 5rds COM 2rds Brain 7
50m COM 5
75m COM 5
100m COM 5

Bust a Move

For this drill you will need about a 15-20m wide lane. With 2 targets arrayed 50m away from the start point. Each 10m Interval is marked somehow. Shooter starts on the right hand side of the lane and fires 5rds into each COM of both targets. He then moves to the left hand side of the range at the 40m line. He shoots the targets with the same amount of rounds as allotted above. The shooter continues this zig zag pattern all the way to the 10m line stopping at each 10m interval to dish out some rounds.

This drill gets the shooters heart rate up and forces the shooter to once again drive the weapon from target to target. Also with the higher round count strings the shooters platform/stance/grip has to be developed to take long strings of fire. On top of this the shooter will begin to understand what he needs to do in order to drop into his firing platform from the move. Also it exposes the shooter to having to react to threats that are presented on his left and right flank.

As you can see I prefer more physical drills. IMO this puts more stressors and requirements on the shooter to only better them in the long haul.

PJ

30 cal slut

03-15-10, 20:35

I love this version of the 100 yard aggregate drill - this is a version I learned from Kyle Lamb (July 2009 Street Fighter class).

Target: NRA B8-C(P) 25 yard Repair Center Pistol Target

A) Eat a real heavy meal (five cold beef stew MRE's or caloric equivalent ), wash down with copious amounts of your choice of warm buttermilk, jolt cola, and/or mountain dew.

B) Immediately afterwards, saddle up in full kit. Helmet, plate carrier, 8 loaded primary weapon mags, 4 loaded secondary weapon mags, drop-leg pistol holster, pistol, full camelbak, and whatever else you have.

C) Load and make ready your carbine.

Starting at the 125 yard line, from standing low ready:

1) Sprint as fast as you can to the 100 yard line. Assume the prone position. 10 shots in one minute. Once the minute is up...

2) Sprint as fast as you can to the 75 yard line. Assume the sitting position. 10 shots in one minute. Once that minute is up ...

3) Sprint as fast as you can to the 50 yard line. Assume the kneeling position. 10 shots in one minute. Once that minute is up ...

4) Sprint as fast as you can to the 25 yard line. 10 shots from the standing position.

Following are some variations on this drill that I've just thought up:

Repeat 1-4 but with weak shoulder.

Repeat 1-4 but shooting one handed (do be especially mindful of your muzzle) from the prone, the stacked feet sitting (or double knee pickup) and kneeling positions.

Scoring: Anything in the black is ten points. Anything outside is a miss. 400 possible points.

Jay Cunningham

03-21-10, 20:16

Modified Dot Torture (http://pistol-training.com/drills/dot-torture)

This is the Dot Torture Drill, but with two different distances and changing par times:

Dot #1: Five Yards

Dot #2: Three Yards, Two Second Par Time

Dots #3 and #4: Three Yards, Three Second Par Time

Dot #5: Five Yards

Dots #6 and #7: Three Yards, Four Second Par Time

Dot #8: Five Yards

Dots #9 and #10: Three Yards, Five Second Par Time

VA_Dinger

03-21-10, 20:22

M4arc and I used to shoot David's Dot Torture Drill all the time. I need to get back using that drill. I bet I've still got a stack of his targets printed out.

http://www.personaldefensetraining.com/showpage.php?target=dottorture.php

This is a marksmanship drill, fired at 3 yards or further. Targets are ten 2" dots numbered. A total of 50 rounds is needed. You will perform: 22 draws and holster, depending on magazine capacity 5-10 administrative or speed reloads, obtain 83 sight pictures and press the trigger 50 times.

* Dot #1- Draw and fire one string of 5 rounds for best group. One hole if possible, total 5 rounds.
* Dot #2- Draw and fire 1 shot, holster and repeat X4, total 5 rounds.
* Dot #3 and 4- Draw and fire 1 shot on #3, then 1 shot on 4, holster and repeat X4, total 8 rounds.
* Dot #5- Draw and fire string of 5 rounds, strong hand only, total 5 rounds.
* Dot #6 and 7- Draw and fire 2 shots on #6, then 2 on #7, holster, repeat X4, total 16 rounds.
* Dot #8- From ready or retention, fire five shots, weak hand only, total 5 rounds.
* Dot #9 and 10- Draw and fire 1 shots on #9, speed reload, fire 1 shots on #10, holster and repeat X3, total 6 rounds.

When you can do this clean on demand, extend the length or start timing and work on speed but maintaining accuracy. If a single shot is missed, you flunk. Only hits count and only perfect practice makes perfect.

30 cal slut

03-28-10, 20:18

Hope Kyle doesn't kill me for posting this.

3-6-9 (?) Drill. Conducted at March 2010 VTAC Night Fighter class.

Targets: Your choice.

Set up a barricade approximately 5 yards from the berm/backstop.

Set up a barricade approximately 5 yards directly behind the first barricade (10 yard line).

Set up another barricade approximately 5 yards directly behind the second barricade (15 yard line).

Set up two targets on the berm ... one to the LEFT and one to the RIGHT of the barricades.

Shooter is standing at low ready behind the third barricade approximately 20 yards from the targets.

At go ...

1) Shooter moves to first barricade, takes kneeling position on left side of barricade and fires three rounds into left target. Then switch knees, take kneeling position on right side of barricade and fire three rounds into right target. Then stand and, while emerging from cover on the right side of barricade, advance towards the middle barricade, and shoot another three rounds into the right target on the move.

2) At middle (second) barricade, take kneeling cover behind right side of barricade. Three shots to right target. Switch knees, take kneeling position on left side of barricade, three shots to left target. Stand, and advance towards the next barricade. While on the move, shoot another three shots into left target.

3) Advance to the next barricade and repeat step 1 ... however, when emerging from cover on the right side, advance towards the right target and fire the primary weapon until empty into the right side target while on the move. When empty, transition to pistol and shoot three shots into the head.

Repeat steps 1-3 but starting with support side.

Anything out of the A zone of the target is a miss.

Penalty for misses is ... five pushups (with rifle slung on back) for each miss.

LHS

03-28-10, 21:29

I always enjoy Hackathorn's "The Mex". 36 rounds and a strict time limit, plus movement in multiple directions and you have to THINK while doing it. Switch into auto-pilot and you'll screw it up.

VMI-MO

04-04-10, 08:14

Here are two examples of the 18 Hole Sprint I described above. Disregard the goofy camera man and colorful language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb_h-01LMhQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHoKX6WKKpE

Both are decently shitty times, but a learning experience.

PJ

GLOCKMASTER

04-05-10, 18:21

VMI-MO

04-05-10, 20:40

I really like the drill!!!

But dang you sure are SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!:D

Yeah, I was not having a good day. I was having to take way to many shots on the easier ports.:(

I will run the 369 and post that time up for you to admire :D.

PJ

streck

06-10-10, 10:10

I read in one of the AAR's that one training exercise is to balance an empty pistol case on the top of the pistol while doing dry fire exercises...

I know this post is a few years old but what the heck...

Here's a handgun dryfire drill I use.

Make sure handgun is unloaded and all ammo is removed from the area.

Tape a piece of 8.5x11" paper to some cardboard trimmed to the same size and tape it to your wall in landscape. Now draw several (6-8) 1/8" dots in a line spread out over most of the width of the paper.

Insert a slightly sharpened pencil with an eraser into the muzzle all the way. Now aim at one of the 1/8" dots with the end of the pencil a couple of inches from the paper and practice your trigger control and sight picture while dry firing. Repeat several times per dot.

What happens is the striker will drive the pencil out of the barrel and mark the paper (the cardboard is to keep the pencil from marring the wall).. With good trigger control and sight picture, you should see a tight pattern of dots a couple of inches below those you drew (are aiming at). Ideally they should be just one dot.

Militant83

09-21-10, 16:33

Here are a couple drill my unit ran during pre deployment work up.

1st one is a shoot and move exercise
Target is the standard cardboard silhouette target.
Take 4 different colored paper plates. We typically used red,green,blue and yellow. Staple them to the target placing the red plate as the head. And we usually place a plate on each shoulder and the last one on the abdomen.
20 rnd mags
RSO will designate how many times he will call each color in order to keep track of how many shots should be in each color.

Starting on the 50yd line obtain a good stable standing position with your body squared off to your target and listen for the movement command from the RSO.

On the command move the line will begin to combat glide forward toward the targets. From there the RSO will decided when and how often to call out colors. When the color is called the shooter will go from alert to ready sight in on the color that was called and fire a controlled pair into the designated color. The course will continue until the shooters are out of ammo or until they have reached the end of the range..

Some other variations you can throw into the mix to make things a bit more advance are use multiple mags and do a combat reload at some point in the course. And if you have side arms once you get into about 25' from the target drop the carbine assuming everyone is using some sort of sling. Draw your side arm and and continue taking commands from the RSO of what colors to shoot.

The big safety factor in this when working with a firing line of multiple people is keeping all of the shooters on line with each other.

2nd drill This one is a move and shoot pivot drill. Uses the same target set up as the above drill. Round count will remain the same as above. For this one you can go to about the 15-25 yd line.
Stand with your shoulder facing the target, feet shoulder width apart and weapon at the alert. When the color is called the shooter pivots on the foot closest to the target, squares up to the target, brings the rifle from alert to ready and shoots a controlled pair at the designated color. After the shooter fires the controlled pair, weapon goes on safe and back to the alert and pivot back to the starting position

Str8Jacket722

05-11-11, 19:23

Backstop

06-15-11, 15:16

Due to injury and illness (me) and illness (family) last year, my total range time - compared to previous years - was severely curtailed.

Didn't shoot any type of match in almost a year, and didn't take any classes during that time either.

But I did get to the range almost weekly.

Decided to work on drills during that year, and used these: http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/standards.htm

What I would do is pick maybe 3 of them to practice each session, and I used a timer.

My times and accuracy did in fact improve.

I have worked those drills in past years. But it's interesting that having a minimal amount of time to shoot forced me to train smarter.

Found it also helps to have a shooting buddy there to compete with, plus run the timer and record scores.

Backstop

07-05-11, 10:29

We usually do it with 20 live rounds each.

1. Set up one IDPA target at 10 yds for each shooter.

2. I'm shooting first, so I hand my empty gun to my partner.

3. He loads one live round, or one dummy round, and hands the gun back to me.

4. I pull the trigger.

5. If it's a live round, my turn is over, and I hand the gun back to him. If I hit the zero zone, that's plus one point for me.

6. If it's a dummy round and I flinch, it's minus one point. And since I flinched, I hand him my gun back, and he loads one live round or one dummy round. Repeat until either I don't flinch, or it's a live round.

7. If it's a dummy round and I don't flinch, that's plus one point for me, and my turn is over.

8. It's now his turn to shoot, and he hands me his empty gun.

Obviously this can be modified as you see fit.

ray0351

10-12-11, 18:33

elevated heart rate drills. Choose whatever course of fire you think will best suit it-
Simply do some sprints, get you heart up and go from there.

Surf

11-20-11, 13:57

I know this is not a new drill, but I finally gave this drill a go. I noted that for myself the hits are not really the issue as even on the Transtar II or the QIT bottle, the hit zone is generous even given the speeds as it is only from 5 yards. However the drill definitely requires a smooth draw, quick pace, good transitional shooting (snapping and stopping on target to get hits) and a smooth reload. In the video I experience a malfunction (failure to eject) and I also "boot" a magazine on a reload. I don't edit it out and it just shows that shit can happen. I also note that this drill would be highly entertaining to run with a group of people.

I may run this drill using an IDPA 8" sized hit zone, or I may try to run 3 shots per target as I have seen others try this one out. Should be challenging. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blFXUH-SIk8&feature=channel_video_title

Jay Cunningham

12-30-11, 15:11

Offset Accountability-
Target- 2” Sighting Paster. Any 2” dot will work. Distribute the 5 dots around the target, about 12 inches apart
Distance- 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25 yards
Ammo- 5 rounds per distance, per iteration
Position- Standing Alert
Drill- Fire a single shot from the alert, ensuring that the bullet strikes the 2” dot. Conduct the drill 5X with no time pressure at each distance working on as much precision as possible, changing targets at each distance.
Once you can hit the target comfortably at all distances repeat the drill with a shot timer set on a 3 second par time. Reduce the par time in ½ second increments until you find your optimal balance of speed and accuracy at each distance. Once this time is established and recorded push yourself to get your hits faster. Do not sacrifice accuracy for speed. If you are missing more than 2 shots when you try to speed up, back it off a bit and push again. Do not expect to be making 1 second hits at 25 the first time you do it.
Purpose- Many people simply work precision at close range by working head-shots to IPSC type targets. While this will teach you how to hit the head reliably, the goal of the drill is to be able to hit a small target on demand and to be intimately aware of where the strike of round will be in relation to your aiming point at close range.

Jack, are you working this drill with 3" dots all the time now, or do you change it up depending upon circumstances?

Failure2Stop

12-30-11, 15:33

Jack, are you working this drill with 3" dots all the time now, or do you change it up depending upon circumstances?

I use the drill for personal work.
I had to alter it for classes, and 3" dots seemed to work well with the broadest spread of sights and optics.
That's why I push students to get their shots in the very center of the 3" dot.
I think that the 2" dot is really the best, but I am trying to consolidate targets down to the 3 or 4 that work instead of having 15 specialized targets.

Failure2Stop

12-30-11, 15:47

"EXTREME!" Half and Half

This drill is used to push those that can achieve a consistent passing score on the Half and Half to push themselves and gear to the edge of performance.

This is for advanced shooters.

50 yards
5x8 index card placed vertically
Standing Alert
10 rounds
15 seconds

35 yards
5x8 index card placed vertically
Standing Alert
10 rounds
10 seconds

20 yards
5x8 index card placed vertically
Standing Alert
10 rounds
8 seconds

10 yards
3x5 index card placed vertically
Standing Alert
10 rounds
5 seconds

5 yards
3x5 index card placed vertically
10 rounds
2.5 seconds

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm174/Fail2Stop/005.jpg
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm174/Fail2Stop/004.jpg

It isn't easy.

Failure2Stop

01-19-12, 18:26

Practical Precision Test:
50 Yards
B-8 Reface
Standing alert.
5 shots standing
-Reload-
5 Shots kneeling

Scoring:
10s, 9's, 8's score as printed.
Outside the 8 ring=0 points.

Score as points per second. (Points divided by time)

Downloadable B-8:
http://www.silvercitygunclub.com/Img_Web/p75rf.jpg

currahee

05-12-12, 21:44

Index Card Drill...

Probably my favorite drill, applicable to rifle or pistol... get to work quick but still have to focus on some precise shooting, have to think what you are shooting at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svp_O4mFdu8

Surf

05-21-12, 21:12

"EXTREME!" Half and Half

......It isn't easy.Hey Jack I know you asked me to validate the drill awhile back and I finally got around to running the drill. Sorry it took some time to get to it but I have been pretty tied up with work the past 12 weeks and only now do I have a short break before things kick off again.

It is definitely a challenging drill and more for an upper intermediate to an advanced level shooter. An expert level shooter will be attempting to shave times. Wind was in the 15+ mph range and it created a bit of havoc blowing me around at the 50 and the 35 but no excuses because adverse conditions is the best time to train. At least it ain't 40 degrees and raining also. :D I ran the drill as follows

50yds - 11.01 seconds & 1 miss. Definitely too quick on my pace. I knew from reading my dot that I had thrown at least 1 round.

35 yds - 8.59 seconds and 1 miss. I tried to work on my pace and I absolutely should not have missed a shot from this distance. I think I was too overconfident or took my accuracy for granted and threw the first shot. I was so confident that I didn't even call that missed shot from reading my dot which I almost always do. Good reminder there. Take nothing for granted. I also only loaded a 19 round mag instead of 20, so I only fired 9 shots. Good amount of time left over so no issue there.

20 yds - 6.72 seconds, no misses. I Could have really pushed the pace quicker at this stage of fire but decided to slow the pace midway through the string of fire.

10 yds - 4.98 seconds, no misses. I really tried to work on keeping a pace at the par time and I came TOO close. For myself I am pretty sure another 1.5 seconds could be shaved comfortably, but 5 seconds seems reasonable.

5 yds - 2.11, no misses. I normally run the VTAC 5 yard line in the sub 2.00 second range pretty comfortably with similar groupings. I think the smaller hit zone takes a bit more time on target to the first shot, just because of the reduced hit zone size. But once I am on trigger the splits are pretty similar. So the reduced hit zone is an added plus to the drill.

Without a doubt I feel I should be running this drill clean with consistency and I wish I had more time on the range to run it again. For myself the difficulty lied in the 50 yard line and getting down a correct pace and to not wish to rush the times. All in all it is a very challenging drill and great evaluation for an advanced level shooter. I will be adding this variation of the half and half to our training. Thanks for the drill. ;)

Here is a video of the drill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKd5zkPX-IQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKd5zkPX-IQ)

currahee

10-20-12, 15:32

Rifle to Pistol transitions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NAiaiabBPI)

J8127

10-20-12, 15:43

It's probably been posted, and I am a nobody, but I like to set it all up so I can get lots of reload and transitionsat once.

Start with your rifle with a few rounds in it, shoot till empty, transition to your secondary that only has a few, shoot until empty, emergency reload and shoot a few more, check work.

Tac reload an empty magazine into secondary and holster, bring your rifle up and perform a speed reload, check work.

Tac reload en empty into your primary, you now have a round in each weapon and empty magazines and the drill is reset. Or you can tac reload with magazines with a few rounds.

Mix in snap caps to really make you think so you aren't just gaming reloads, do it in conjunction with box drills or roadhouse rules or just a standard BSA type drill.

I'll stand there and do this until I've run all my magazines dry and have ended up with a ton of reps in the major manipulations.

And it's just fun.

jwfuhrman

10-20-12, 18:07

Here is what I've been doing on the weekends and when I have time after work.

Start off with VTAC 1-5 drill. Run that 4 times.

Then I do a Modified VTAC 1-5. I put on target at 75 yards, the next at 50 yards and the 3rd at 25 yards. I stand on the 100 yard line and run the drill from 25 to 50 to 75. Run that 4 times.

I do the Modified 1-5 in reverse then 4 times(Start with the 75 yard target, then 50, then 25).

Finally I do what I call the Suicide 100.

Starting at 10 yards, I engage with my pistol a 2/3rd IPSC with 3 rounds, holster and run to 25 yards, 3 rounds with my rifle from standing, run to 50 and 3 rounds with Rifle standing, run to 75 yards 3 rounds kneeling, run to 100 yards, 3 rounds Prone, then I run back to 75 and repeat all the way back to pistol.

That drill gets your heart rate up, gets your really having to move and focus on what your doing.

Magic_Salad0892

10-20-12, 19:25

gesundheit

10-28-12, 23:51

Failure2Stop

10-29-12, 09:08

What would be good drills to instill habit of engaging safety in between shooting at targets and disengaging it again after shooting the next target and on and on.

I have found my trigger finger unconsciously moving into the trigger well and forgetting to use the thumb to move the lever back to safety. Need to break this bad habit.

Dedicated repetitive training of the manipulation you are trying to instill. Start with deliberate, thought-engaged repetition and slowly increase pace until the desired action is habitual.

gesundheit

10-29-12, 18:41

Dedicated repetitive training of the manipulation you are trying to instill. Start with deliberate, thought-engaged repetition and slowly increase pace until the desired action is habitual.

Thanks. I will get right on it.

currahee

03-09-13, 21:42

A series of drills I came up with to maximize your range time with minimal ammo

Pistol Warm Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOnJgHb2oP8&feature=youtu.be)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URmAqb8cAdU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFY3M4wnRlM

criterion01

06-11-13, 23:39

When the reload has to be smooth.....the all important first shot is on target.....efficiently.

http://youtu.be/65zO9K1g11I

Failure2Stop

06-12-13, 05:16

When the reload has to be smooth.....the all important first shot is on target.....efficiently.

http://youtu.be/65zO9K1g11I

What target at what distance?

I will generally run a few sets of reloads with magazines with a random number of rounds (from 1-5) on "A zones" at 3 to 15 yards before a competition (USPSA) to get used to reloading from all of my pouches.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

dash1

06-12-13, 07:15

Deleted

criterion01

06-12-13, 07:36

Failure2Stop

06-12-13, 08:13

Failure2Stop.....I generally shoot this at 7 for classes. Utilizing distance as a "means to know one's limitations" the focus often changes to speed of shot over efficiency of reload....and lack of accuracy "just to get a shot off"....excellent teaching points throughout.

I understand your reasons, it was simply not stated on the video, and there was no mention of the accuracy standard or shots of your target.

infidel4life11

07-13-14, 22:12

My favorite drills: Pistol and rifle

Dot torture- started at 3m, once I constantly get 50/50 move back to 5m, then 7m

1-5- distance depending on steel or paper targets. Size of the target ups the difficulty. Par time 5secs always

V-drill- distance depending on steel or paper targets. Size of the target ups the difficulty. Par time 5secs always

Hack standards!

ROGOPGEAR

09-05-14, 21:52

Here's a vid I put up recently on the FAST from pistol-training.com. It's more of a benchmark than a drill, but can be utilized as both if desired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjoZjYFkmE4&list=UUbaQ5GzqQs3X-r3TLh5Gupw

ROGOPGEAR

09-25-14, 20:52

And up next is DOT TORTURE. I enjoyed shooting this drill. Definitely showed me a few things to work on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjOsx9NGCxg&list=UUbaQ5GzqQs3X-r3TLh5Gupw

LHS

09-25-14, 21:55

The "TDA" variant of Dot Torture is great as well. I tend to prefer it as I carry a TDA pistol, and it lets me focus on that DA first shot and transitions to SA.

Voodoo_Man

09-29-14, 11:45

Ran a Farnham Drill at a class over the weekend, one of my favorite pistol drills since you get so much out of it.

http://vdmsr.blogspot.com/2014/09/farnham-drill-stg-warrior-pistol-class.html

Voodoo_Man

10-04-14, 18:22

One of the other drills I run when I go to the range is a one shot from draw, 7 yards, A-Zone (vtac/etc type target) from concealment. We do this standing for starters then we do it on the run, gata get accurate and fast first before you do the run part though. Shot with G17L from a #wulfberht custom AIWB holster (http://vdmsr.blogspot.com/2014/09/wulfberht-aiwb-g19-prototype-holster.html).

http://youtu.be/Hixl48836Uo

Voodoo_Man

11-12-14, 15:38

Hostage head-shot targets

http://youtu.be/1cG6TlR_G7M

Ron3

04-09-15, 12:59

I made up my own drill set (I think I'll name it, "Ron's 42 Drill") and thought I'd share it and get some peer review. I intended it to be a fusion of some basic skills requiring very little equipment or set-up.

It does lack the element of time because I have don't have a timer yet!

First the parameters:

-All drills 3 yds and beyond begin with a side-step. Whichever side you start with, go the other way next time.

-Each drill includes drawing from however you intend to keep your gun ready.

-Cover / Concealment locations are determined before beginning. Preferably something to either side and back of the range. If you have no props to use put sticks down or make lines in the dirt.

-After each string the shooter moves to cover while observing target just fired on, and then surrounding area.

-Reload as needed to avoid running empty during any string. Do it behind cover if your slow, or while moving towards cover if your fast. Still observing area. Be behind cover or moving.

-All cardboard should have a head and chest target. You can use a notebook paper sized target for the chest and a half-notebook sized paper for the head. Or use the half-notebook sized paper for all targets. You can also use 5x8 cards.

Here is the actual shooting part:

1. 4 shots 25 yds two handed chest
2. 4 shots 15 yds two handed chest
3. 4 shots 7 yds two handed chest
4. 4 shots 3 yds two handed head
5. 4 shots 3 yds primary hand only two chest then two head
6. 4 shots 3 yds support hand only two chest then two head
7. 4 shots 1 yd primary hand only using a chosen retention position into chest
8. 4 shots 1 yd support hand only using a chosen retention position into chest

-Now you'll need two targets about 1 yd apart. These are all 5 shot srings into the chest of each target at 3 yds.

9. Primary hand only. One shot into T-1, two shots into T-2, then two more shots into T-1
10. Same as #9 above only using both hands.

Total is 42 rounds.

Ron3

04-10-15, 22:50

Performed the drill I made up today (above this post) and liked it.

The wife did it too. (with .38 wadcutters in the LCR...can shoot those all day)

Plenty of re-do's because we'd go too fast...and miss shots. (imagine that) I used half sheets of notebook paper for all except when using the Ruger LCR at the 25 yd range.

I liked the movement involved. Move, shoot, scan the target, move away and scan the area while moving to cover to reload. (No side-step before drawing at the 1 yd retention drills)

I did the drill with the S&W 627 and it was fun. Even with +p 125 gr Rem ammo it's an enjoyable revolver to shoot. Eight round capacity is nice for this drill.

Then I did it again with the Ruger LCR .357. I have to admit the same 125 +p was getting a little tiresome by the time I finished it.

Finally I went again with the Glock 19. It's easier with the Glock that's for sure.

I think it's a good refresher drill to practice shooting and do the other things we should always do. Things like moving, using cover, being aware of surroundings. I'm looking forward to having family and friends do this little drill set.

Mauser KAR98K

05-19-15, 22:43

I've been debating on posting this, but since it has become my routine drill at the range with a rifle, and have gotten others to use it, I might as well take the plunge and post my 5-50 Drill.

This come out from the 2012-13 Panic and "The Great Ammo Drought" of 2013. The drill "requires" a 50 yard range, but as I will explain throughout this posting, the drill can vary for the shooter and what they are seeking from it. The drill is a skills test of where you are either coming right on to the range or just before coming off. Round count is sixty rounds; either divided up in two magazines, or in multiple magazines to work in reloads. The sixty round count is due that one can go to Walmart and buy three, twenty round boxes of Tula ammo: the cheapest stuff you can get on the market and be had (even second hand from some price gouger) cheaply.

The drill takes place at the 5, 7, 10, 15, 25, and 50 yard lines--hence the 5-50 Drill. There is no timer to this, all accuracy and throttle control of the shooter. Targets can range from an IDPA, IPSC, 8-inch bullseye, to a full silhouette target. Pretty much what you have on hand--though the smaller the target the better (A-Zone size IDPA or paper plate).

The Basic 5-50 Drill

This is done all standing until the 50 yard mark. No movement required.

Goal: To judge your current skill and handling of your primary weapon with two standard magazines of ammunition. Ten (10) rounds will be fired from each yard line, totally to sixty (60) at the end. You can check your groupings throughout the course of fire, though you may to check your memory and call your shots. It is advised to check your hits at the 5-10 yard lines to check and confirm your sight-over-bore ratio.

Basic Course of Fire:

At the 5, 7, 10, 15, and 25 yard lines, it is standing only, no movement, double taps (control pairs--whatever) to the A-zone area, rifle at low ready for each string of fire. Very simple, but it goes back over the fundamentals of acquiring your sight, dropping the safety, rifle control, and trigger squeeze. You can start off fast at the 5-7 yard lines, but again, at those distance you are checking your sight-over-bore hits.

The further you go back, pace yourself. This drill is not timed, so you are looking for good hits, and working on your sight picture when getting your weapon up from the low ready position. You are also working your safety every time for repetition sake.

After the 25 yard section is done, go to your target, take a glance at it and remember your hits. This will become critical after you have fire from the 50 yard line.

At the 50 yard line you "should" be on the last ten rounds. (If you are under or over, you are not paying attention to your strings--another piece from this drill).

You will do a single string of two rounds from the standing position. You will then drop to the kneeling position and do two strings of fire. Your last four rounds will be from the prone position. Either you can shoot them slow or fast, it depends on how your sight picture and your control of your weapon at this position.

Throughout all courses of fire, you are checking to see how your gear is fairing, checking to see if you need to make adjustments. You are also checking your throttle control, and where you need to either speed up or slow down at the different yard lines.

This drill can also be ran backwards: 50 yards to 5 yards. It is entirely up to the shooter. But the shooter must know what they are wanting wait they are looking for as where the skill level is and where they want to improve. It is a low ammunition skills test at basic yardage if you can't get to a range that is over 50 yards--like where I go to.

Advanced 5-50 Drill:

Adding cool guy stuff to the drill is simple, and again, up to the shooter. It's your ammo. What is listed are options to add to the drill

5 Yards:

1.)Head shots only.

2.)Run the full ten rounds as fast as you can to work your recoil management and trigger press. Small groupings.

7 Yards:

1.) Facing movements from a static position. Don't worry about getting off the X. Work your pivoting.

2.) Transition from strong-side to support-side, doing double taps. This is done continuously until ten rounds have been fired.

10 Yards:

1.) Starting at the 15 Yard mark, run to the 10-yard line and engage your target. Walk back and start from different facing positions.

2.) Get off the X movements at the 10 yard mark.

15 Yards:

1.) Fast squatting and kneeling transitions starting from standing.

2.) Get off the X movements at the 15 yard mark.

25 Yards:

Same static strings of fire. Working on sight picture and weapon control

50 Yards:

Same as the Basic Course.

Summary:

When ammunition is in short supply, and dry firing and none live-fire drills only go so far, this 5-50 drill is a good way to keep track on your skills and see what you need to work on. You can start your range session with the drill to get a feel on where you currently stand skill wise, and develop your range session of focusing on those skills. The 5-50 drill is also a good way to shoot cheap ammo for skills building and keeping good ammo in storage. During the panic, many found it hard to justify shooting hundreds of rounds if they knew they could replenish them. Also, the idea of shooting .22lr to keep fresh was a bygone thought when the supple of the cheapest ammo on the shelves dried up, and it still has not come back.

There are other drills out that can be done and achieve similar results for the shooter, such as the Modified Navy Qualification drill. But the MNQ requires just 15 rounds and is only done at the 50 yard. The 5-50 drill is done at multiple yardages, and takes into account varying factors at those ranges. For instance, sight-over-bore ratios at close distances; round count during the strings (why I recommend just running two magazines); target acquisition and sight picture at varying ranges; and calling your shots.

The shooter can run this drill with just their rifle and the spare magazine in their pocket, or in full kit-up. Again, it is what the shooter is looking for in themselves from the drill. If they need to see where they are in full kit, do it. If you only have 10 minutes to shoot, this drill can be in that time.

The drill can also be used as a warm-up. You can also incorporate your secondary weapon into the drill (still working on it on my end on where to place it and the pistol round count). If you just intend to go out with your pistol, but have 60 rounds laying around, take your rifle and do a 5-50 drill. It will be a quick skills test.

Scoring:

The simple scoring requirements is to keep all your shots in the black or A-Zone. Any outside shots, it is the shooters responsibility to have called them. Many times I have had hits in the white and I don't remember when and where I pulled the shot. Bad on me.

If you have placed all your hits in the black, congrates, pat yourself on the back, now go and make them tighter. Save your targets to review after your next 5-50 drill.

Again, this drill is to judge yourself, where you stand, where to improve on a low ammo range day, to check your gear, and clear out the cobwebs in your system.

jayclimber

10-09-17, 19:38

Here's 2 drills I've been running lately that I'm getting a lot out of!

Drill #1...
Shooting from cover:
-Controlled fire moving to cover
-once behind cover fire 2 shots strong side
-fire 2 shots weak side
-transition to sidearm, fire 4 shots
-transition back to rifle, switch mags and fire 2 more times

The things I like about this drill are the weapons manipulation and all the different ways to run it. Work in mag changes, malfunctions, with a buddy calling out shots, firing positions, and weapons transitions. Even working in multiple targets and/or multiple barricades to move between.

https://youtu.be/c8KEhEtRky8

jayclimber

10-09-17, 19:39

Drill #2...
100 yard rifle drill (My take on the Defoor Performance Rifle Test series... Done with full kit.)
-100 yards, lying on your back, feet towards target, 2 shots
-75 yards, kneel down, fire 2 shots
-50 yards, lie prone, fire 2 shots
-25 yards, fire at targets while continuing to move

I'm using 8"x10" steel plates (x2) as my targets, goal is one shot (or more) per plate to move on, so speed and accuracy is key!

Run to each yardage marker between shots, to add to the difficulty work in planned "malfunctions" and mag changes... You can also bump up to full kit to add an extra challenge to the drill.

https://youtu.be/V4THheYRLF4

tellum

11-17-20, 23:00

The reality of civilian handgun use is most attackers doint have a gun. Do NOT shoot knife wielders beyond 10 ft, guys. DRAW and point at them but do not fire, at longer distances. You're not a cop, your lawyer is not free of charge and you will NOT have a sympathetic jury, judge or prosecutor. Cops and prosecutors HATE it when you intrude on their monopoly on violence. They very much want you to be disarmed and dependent upon them. Speed of draw has 6x prevented me from having to fire. Airsoft guns and a timer for same make it very cheap, easy,, safe and fast to acquire a superfast ccw draw. Until you get that gun out and on target, none of the other gun training means a thing. Quite often, if you can draw fast enough, you dont have to fire at ALL, which saves you 50-500k trying to stay out of prison and un-sued. Get the double ace timer for your wristband, so it works for both airsoft and live ammo. ou need that feedback of whether a draw truly was fast, or just felt that way, due to lots of wasted movement. If I can reliably draw and hit the chest in .70 second openly worn rig and you need 1.1 seconds to do the same, guess who's got more time for 5 more hits on the Bill drill, in 2 seconds, eh? You have .90 second for 5 more hits, I have 1.3 seconds for those same hits. Who is more likely to have 5 nice hits, me or you? Who is more likely to be able to get all 6 hits in 1.6 seconds, me or you? :-) Who is more likely to be un-shot and getting those hits? The speed of draw has to come first.

criterion01

11-18-20, 14:19

Thank you for your insight on survival; ability to 'draw fast' and shoot 6 rounds in 1.6 seconds on paper, facing your target, prepped stance, focused on the A zone. real brave. Before you start giving 'life saving' advice perhaps a little Force Science Research on the '21 foot rule' and how 'Cops and prosecutors' hate taking their 'kills'.... folks like you get people killed

The reality of civilian handgun use is most attackers doint have a gun. Do NOT shoot knife wielders beyond 10 ft, guys. DRAW and point at them but do not fire, at longer distances. You're not a cop, your lawyer is not free of charge and you will NOT have a sympathetic jury, judge or prosecutor. Cops and prosecutors HATE it when you intrude on their monopoly on violence. They very much want you to be disarmed and dependent upon them. Speed of draw has 6x prevented me from having to fire. Airsoft guns and a timer for same make it very cheap, easy,, safe and fast to acquire a superfast ccw draw. Until you get that gun out and on target, none of the other gun training means a thing. Quite often, if you can draw fast enough, you dont have to fire at ALL, which saves you 50-500k trying to stay out of prison and un-sued. Get the double ace timer for your wristband, so it works for both airsoft and live ammo. ou need that feedback of whether a draw truly was fast, or just felt that way, due to lots of wasted movement. If I can reliably draw and hit the chest in .70 second openly worn rig and you need 1.1 seconds to do the same, guess who's got more time for 5 more hits on the Bill drill, in 2 seconds, eh? You have .90 second for 5 more hits, I have 1.3 seconds for those same hits. Who is more likely to have 5 nice hits, me or you? Who is more likely to be able to get all 6 hits in 1.6 seconds, me or you? :-) Who is more likely to be un-shot and getting those hits? The speed of draw has to come first.

sinister

01-29-22, 19:28

I drew up this rifle-pistol drill for my friend George Clendenin of Integrity Firearms Training in College Station, Texas. I call this "sinister's RASH" (Respond to Active Shooter) drill. The name kinda makes me want to scratch my bits.

The training lieutenant for one of the local police departments asked George for a carbine and pistol drill -- with the caveat they were shooting up expired rifle ammo, and had minimal pistol ammo. We wanted to give them a non-typical (not a "Yawn. Boring, I've seen it on youtube before") exercise. George presented this particular drill and the audience (consisting of a mix of academy instructors, firearms instructors, and one SWAT officer) gave positive comments.

Use this crawl-walk-run drill to train and eventually test or qualify individuals or pair teams, using 40 rounds (30 rifle, ten pistol) per turn. You can do this on a standard 100-yard rifle range with bullseye or turning target frames, or you can use IPSC-style stands. I used cardboard IPSC targets because they're common and available, but you can use GI cardboard E and F-type silhouettes. We're looking for hits. Since each go uses 40 rounds, I just transferred Army numbers -- 30-35 is good / passing, 36-40 is Expert. We're going for the sweet spot balancing power (hits), accuracy (dead), and speed (overall time).

Set up your target bank to look like this:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18978/target_bank_jpeg-2257995.JPG

At the 100-yard line we parked a patrol Ford Exploder and a 4x4 side-by-side ATV. At the 75-yard line we put up V-TAC barriers so each shooter has cover, concealment, and support. At 50-yards we stacked two blue plastic dishwasher soap drums on top of each other to provide concealment but not sturdy support. At 25-yards we have simple orange cones.

We set up two parallel lanes so each respective left and right shooter has his own work space (a shooter and a safety pacing with him/her), and as we advance we can shoot as a side-by-side pair (a shooter/advancing mover while the other covers during the leap-frog / bounding overwatch).

We start at the 100-yard line. If department protocol says the carbine or rifle is in the rack or in a bag in the trunk, that's how we start.

I had the fellas start the car, shifter in drive, then hit the wail on the siren. Shooter then puts the car into park (or stand by for hilarity), grabs his carbine (or un-asses the car to the trunk and gets his weapon out of the soft case) and gets into the fight. If he has to don plate carrier over soft armor, he does so now.

He then gets support off the vehicle, nearest cover and concealment object, or the ground, and shoots five long-gun rounds at the full-size target on the left. He moves to other side of the vehicle and shoots the full-size target on the right.

He advances to the 75 and repeats five on the partial target on the left, switches cover side and shoots five on the right.

He advances to the 50-yard drums and takes a knee around cover and shoots the semi-obscured left target, switches sides, and shoots five on the right target.

He un-holsters his pistol and advances to 25 yards, and fires five rounds to lock-back -- reloads, and fires five rounds while advancing to close the distance.

We demonstrated, then everyone did it once, un-timed. We repeated, individuals against the stopwatch. We did it a third time as buddy pairs for fastest teams/most hits.

Fastest and highest scoring was, surprisingly, the new lieutenant with a standard 16-inch carbine. We had guys with short Mark 18-style CQB carbines, and the SWAT guy had a suppressed carbine with light and laser.