Pros & Cons of Midlength or 20" vs Carbine?

[LH2]

Shopping for my 1st AR, wondering what are the advantages of a mid-length or 20" versus the shorty carbine setup?

Carbines seem to be all the rage now... Are there many complete rifle mid-lengths for an AR shopper to choose from?

[K9-Bob]

Shopping for my 1st AR, wondering what are the advantages of a mid-length or 20" versus the shorty carbine setup?

Carbines seem to be all the rage now... Are there many complete rifle mid-lengths for an AR shopper to choose from?

I really enjoy my Sabre 16" A3 midlength upper. It seems to be my go to gun and I enjoy shooting it more than any of my carbines. I think for me it's just a matter of ergonomics.

I am 6'5" and the middy just fits me better. :)

[Battl3fr0nt]

Well right now Middy's are the best of the 3 for reliability, And there is a bit of a hype going along with them, I picked my middy about 6 months ago and I really didnt even know it was that much better then the Car lenth.. I mean there is nothing wrong with the car lenth it is just there is less probs with the middy due to the lower gas pressure.. It really depends on what barrel lenth you are gonna go with and how you want your weapon to look.. for me I like the look of the middy and the way it performs, it shoots a bit softer then the car lenth and you have more rail space.. If you want best reliability then the middy is for you if you need somthing short that being under 14.5" then the car lenth will be best.. People are doing so much with there rifles right now tho.. like getting 14" rails to go on there 14.5" Barrels and alot of that long rail stuff, its cool but I think the best looking rifle is the middy or the car lenth or rifle.. besides the middy being the best gas sytem to go with its all about looks after that.. If you really need to depend on your AR then go with the middy if you dont then go with the car not that the car is going to jam more then the middy it is just the middy will have less probs.. and I like the feel of the middy alot better..

[carbinero]

Whoa! This is still the site of FACT...so I question the "middy is more reliable than rifle" statement.

I think you need to define your mission first, then decide on the barrel length. If you need to clear rooms or have difficulty pulling a long gun out of a small auto, look into a 14.5. If you prefer better ballistics, especially beyond 200 yards, consider the 20" more strongly. 16" is a great compromise.

Next, fit your gas system, and dwell time is optimised with carbine length in the 14.5, middy for the 16", and rifle length for the 20. Other combinations can work, but some require fiddling, especially with brands which don't adhere to specs. You may hear of guys with 14.5" middys or 17" rifle gas, and the most common, 16" carbine. Any of these can work, but I recommend buying from a knowledgeable vendor, like Grant at G&R (our host) to ensure you get what you want/need.

Consider buying completed upper and lower separately to save $$ (it's no assembly problem for you), and to get exactly what you want.

CMMG has an expansive site to compare options, but be sure to consider Colt, Noveske, LMT when purchasing: pay more up front, cry once.

[C4IGrant]

Shopping for my 1st AR, wondering what are the advantages of a mid-length or 20" versus the shorty carbine setup?

Carbines seem to be all the rage now... Are there many complete rifle mid-lengths for an AR shopper to choose from?


The only advantage a 20" barrel has is FPS. That is all. If it is going to be used as defense tool, they it is a poor choice.

The best setup going is a 16" with a middy gas system.


C4

[Failure2Stop]

I have a little time behind 20" rifles, 14.5" carbines, 10.5" carbines, 16" carbines, and 16" Middies. Each and every one have a particular thing that they do better than the rest, except for the 16" carbine and 16" middie. I personally see no reason for the 16" carbine gas system any more, as it is the hardest running system. The 16" middie also does not have one particular thing that it does well, but it does them all acceptably.

It will never be a long-range precision rig, but they are ususally well caipable of 2-3 MOA in the hands of a decent shooter.

They aren't as maneuverable in close-quarters as a 10.5, but they aren't nearly as bad as a 20".

A suppressor on a 16" gun will suck indoors, but outside it is good to go.

They have acceptable terminal performance and accuracy (if fed the right ammo) out to realistic distances. They are generally light enough to carry without undue emotion. They shoot softer than a CAR, but not as soft as a rifle, though different muzzle devices can make muzzle-rise non-existant.

Middies are great for a General Purpose (GP) gun, if that's what you want. If you want a 600 yard High-Power Competition rifle or something to put a suppressor on and clear a high-rise, you will be happier with something else.

My GP gun has a BCM middie upper. If I were to do it again I would buy either a Noveske or Sabre (since BCM is still waiting on their uppers to be available again). Those are the same options I would recommend to anyone in the market for a Middie.

YMMV

[markm]

Whoa! This is still the site of FACT...so I question the "middy is more reliable than rifle" statement.

Yeah.... what carbinero said.

[skyugo]

i always figured ar's ranked Rifle-->Middy-->Carbine in order of reliability.


seems a 16" middy is the way to go for most users. If you want to go SBR that's of course a whole other ball of wax.

[LH2]

Okay, I think a mid-length makes the most sense for a general purpose carbine.

What about these:

CMMG

Sabre Defence

Is SLR15's Classic available mid-length? The Classic 16" level 2 looks like a good value.

[skyugo]

Okay, I think a mid-length makes the most sense for a general purpose carbine.

What about these:

CMMG

Sabre Defence

Is SLR15's Classic available mid-length? The Classic 16" level 2 looks like a good value.

a lot of guys here like to knock CMMG. i've got 2000 rounds or so downrange with mine. i don't clean it much. mostly shoot reloads... occasional steel case. the upper has never failed to cycle/eject. had a couple mag FTF incidents.. but i think those were mostly my fault.

sabre is a good name as well.
i don't see a 16" light midlength on their site... which is what i have from CMMG. balances very nice. accurate etc.

[The Archangel]

Okay, I think a mid-length makes the most sense for a general purpose carbine.

What about these:

CMMG

Sabre Defence

Is SLR15's Classic available mid-length? The Classic 16" level 2 looks like a good value.

I used to be a huge fan of CMMG until I had problems with my 16" Middy due to a tight chamber. CMMG's customer service is excellent though as they have offered to remedy the problem until is is resolved satisfactory; either case, I ended up with a 12.5" Noveske and didn't even think twice about it.

[C4IGrant]

Okay, I think a mid-length makes the most sense for a general purpose carbine.

What about these:

CMMG

Sabre Defence

Is SLR15's Classic available mid-length? The Classic 16" level 2 looks like a good value.


If I had to choose of those, it would be the Sabre. With that said, you are leaving out the very best 16" middy barrel on the market (Noveske N4).


C4

[LH2]

If I had to choose of those, it would be the Sabre. With that said, you are leaving out the very best 16" middy barrel on the market (Noveske N4).


C4

Grant, is this available as a complete rifle? How do I go about getting this and keeping a budget in mine if possible. :cool:

[C4IGrant]

Grant, is this available as a complete rifle? How do I go about getting this and keeping a budget in mine if possible. :cool:

I would not buy this a complete weapon so that you can save the 11%.


C4

[spamsammich]

yep, if you get the upper and lowers separately, FET does not apply. The only thing you miss out on is getting the little maltese cross stamped across the upper and lower. Small price to pay unless you think it's worth the 130+ dollars you save to have it.

Grant, would one have to place separate orders on different days to avoid FET?

[C4IGrant]

yep, if you get the upper and lowers separately, FET does not apply. The only thing you miss out on is getting the little maltese cross stamped across the upper and lower. Small price to pay unless you think it's worth the 130+ dollars you save to have it.

Grant, would one have to place separate orders on different days to avoid FET?

Yes, that would be easiest.


C4

[jess_su]

I have done a lot of target shooting at the range with my 16" xm15-e2s. I have a Redfield ESD that does not offer any magnification and I have it sighted in at 50 yards. This was a lot of fun and challenging for the first few thousand rounds, however as I wanted more and more precision I moved up to a 20" varmint bull rifle with 10x scope and target knobs.

Now my bushmaster has little purpose other than waiting for shtf day. Since it is CQ rifle it is not as suitable for small varmint hunting.

If you are going to do precision shooting or small game hunting I would go with a 20", if you want a plinking gun that is still dang accurate or a shtf gun the 16" is a good choice.

If I ever need a quick defense gun it will be a shotgun, If I were going to be in some type of prolonged combat I will be staying so far out of sight I will need a rifle with the most range possible.