View Full Version : San Bernardino Co. SO--WTH???
Words fail me. Video from a news chopper. http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Man-on-Stolen-Horse-Stunned-by-Sheriffs-Deputies-in-IE-299250951.html
Sheriff Orders Immediate Internal Investigation Into Arrest Seen on "Disturbing" Video
The San Bernardino County Sheriff ordered an internal investigation Thursday into an arrest caught on NBC Los Angeles' NewsChopper4 video that showed deputies beating a suspect when they caught up to him following a wild desert chase on horseback.
Aerial footage showed the man falling off the horse he was suspected of stealing during the pursuit in San Bernardino County Thursday afternoon.
All these cameras everywhere in society are getting to be a real nuisance...
Certainly he can't ride a horse worth a damn. Other than that, it seems the Deputies were trying to dislodge something in his head and groin area. What other legitimate reason would they be inflicting that much violence for? Or, could it be they were just amped up due to the chase and primal instincts were kicking in?
Interesting use of controlling techniques...
brickboy240
04-10-15, 16:01
Think about all the people that were beaten by cops before cameras.
The beating of those that ran from cops is probably nothing new.
Want to not get beaten? Don't run from the cops. Also...don't grab for their sidearms.
Simple rules to live by...
Off topic, but I read the article, or at least skimped through it. I loled at "The horse stood idly nearby." As if the imply the horse was supposed to get in on the action.
I will now return you to your regularly scheduled debate.
Horse was well trained; rider was not.
All these cameras everywhere in society are getting to be a real nuisance...
Well, yes they are, but not for the reason you are stating.
Think about all the people that were beaten by cops before cameras.
I think that's crossing quite a few people's minds.
I have a lot of respect for LEO's and what they do and if there is a reason for the use of force in these videos I can usually see what it was. With that being said that I didn't see any reason for the amount of physical force they used against this guy. Don't get me wrong the guy may have needed an ass whoopin and from his record doesnt seem like a real stand up guy but he was surrendering and was not fighting back. For some reason though I have a feeling these officers wont be punished.
At least it was a white guy!!:rolleyes:
Im not gonna lie... That was one of the first things I noticed
Off topic, but I read the article, or at least skimped through it. I loled at "The horse stood idly nearby." As if the imply the horse was supposed to get in on the action.
I will now return you to your regularly scheduled debate.
Was probably thankful the owner was finally off of his back.
Eurodriver
04-10-15, 19:35
I will wait for the SO to investigate themselves before forming an opinion.
They were probably stomping out bees or something to protect the BG.
Averageman
04-10-15, 19:54
Think about all the people that were beaten by cops before cameras.
The beating of those that ran from cops is probably nothing new.
Want to not get beaten? Don't run from the cops. Also...don't grab for their sidearms.
Simple rules to live by...
My Grandfathers older Brother and he was at least 15 years older, was a Cop on the South Side of Chicago. He was very proud of a basket full of billy clubs that he had broken while walking a beat over the years. I can only guess that Law Enforcement was much different without radio's and back-up might have been at best a call box away and minutes away.
The few times I can remember him, and I was a child at the time, and he scared the living crap out of me.
I asked my Grandfather late in his own life about his brother, mostly because I remembered this huge imposing monster of a man. My Grandfather told me that he was the nicest guy, his favorite brother who wanted to help people and would give you the shirt off of his back. My Grandpa was orphaned when he was 13 and went to live with him. He said he remembered Uncle Jack drinking beer while making pancakes for everyone before they went to school.
I dont think many people go in to Law Enforcement to deliver a beat down. I do think perhaps they get to deal with the dregs of humanity long enough to just have had enough of jackasses peforming jackassery and lower themselves to deliver what a jackass understands.
Moose-Knuckle
04-10-15, 23:32
We used to hang horse thieves.
Anyone know what the warrant was for the SO was attempting to serve when the suspect bolted? I didn't see it mentioned in the article/video linked.
No offense, and I know this will spin some of y'alls wheels but if the warrant was for child molestation, kiddy porn, or the like then they didn't beat him enough.
I believe they said it was for identity theft
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The Sheriff already made several statements regarding the incident and video. No doubt the dumbass probably deserved an ass beating for leading the Deputies on a 2 hour chase through the desert which resulted in one Deputy being kicked by the horse and two becoming dehydrated and subsequently hospitalized. But, it seems things went further than necessary in the video. Kneeing and kicking someone in the head and upper body can result in serious injuries, not counting the fact that several more Deputies joined in. That video will result in disciplinary actions, re-assignment, and likely termination for the main actors. The FBI also announced an Investigation will be initiated into the incident as well.
Times have changed, cell phones and video cameras will check the actions of almost any Public agency or Official interacting with the general public now.
Mo_Zam_Beek
04-11-15, 11:31
No doubt the dumbass probably deserved an ass beating for leading the Deputies on a 2 hour chase through the desert which resulted in one Deputy being kicked by the horse and two becoming dehydrated and subsequently hospitalized. But, it seems things went further than necessary in the video.
Herein lies the slippery slope. The job is to apprehend the suspect. If force is required to do so, it needs to be proportionate and reasonable given the circumstance.
What is not relevant is how long LE chased them, the fact that two got dehydrated, the fact that a horse kicked one of them. None of that counts. Those are the facts. Any backsliding on that issue leads to the eventual rationalization that beating a suspect is OK "just because".
Don't like the rules of the job? Don't do the job.
Guess what job I know I couldn't have followed the rules of and therefore what job I know I couldn't have held?
Outlander Systems
04-11-15, 11:57
These fellas are some real professionals.
I don't care if the dude just bitch slapped the pope; justice belongs in the courtroom, not the streets.
Hopefully the thugs involved are brought up on criminal charges.
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Looks like LE is the wrong line of work for them boys.
The Sheriff already made several statements regarding the incident and video. No doubt the dumbass probably deserved an ass beating for leading the Deputies on a 2 hour chase through the desert which resulted in one Deputy being kicked by the horse and two becoming dehydrated and subsequently hospitalized. But, it seems things went further than necessary in the video. Kneeing and kicking someone in the head and upper body can result in serious injuries, not counting the fact that several more Deputies joined in. That video will result in disciplinary actions, re-assignment, and likely termination for the main actors. The FBI also announced an Investigation will be initiated into the incident as well.
Times have changed, cell phones and video cameras will check the actions of almost any Public agency or Official interacting with the general public now.
1) Striking the groin and head are considered deadly force in my area.
2) The LEO I worked with in rough urban areas do not care if the someone has the ability to record their actions, they control a resisting subject the same way now as they did 20 years ago. If you do it right it may not look good on video to a layperson, but you won't be in the fix the San Bernadino Deputies are in for the way they reacted to the subject on the ground.
Unless more facts are revealed to justify their actions, I take issue with the way the suspect was treated. Being pissed off is not justification.
yet the AZ guys in that walmart video showed some amazing restraint to the point I think they should have done more :)
and yet these over do it part of me understands the frustration and thinks the bad guys kinda deserve it though :) but laws in place should be followed especially by the ones who are trying to make sure they are enforced so there is no excuse
I often think this is just the first time they were caught ! not the first time it happened and they should loose there jobs make room for better LEO that wont do this
IMHO like bad teachers that get some slap on the wrist go out do it again just fire them and let it be known if this happens you get fired those on the edge of thinking about it might not go over the edge
but also I think those that run like this should get extra charges and for sure be put in jail fined insane amounts etc... and not just a slap on the wrist or probation so there is no fear in criminals anymore
in a chase of any kind and any life is at danger the feeling person should also face attempted murder
yet the AZ guys in that walmart video showed some amazing restraint to the point I think they should have done more :)
The unfortunate part about the repercussions due to force used in the capture of the horse thief is that in the future some LEO will not use sufficient force to protect themselves or others and wind up seriously injured or killed.
When LEO use an appropriate amount of force when the situation dictates, most of the public don't have a problem with it.
I absolutely don't condone the gang beating of a man on the ground.
That said, I wonder at what point LE in general is simply going to stop chasing or fighting those who resist arrest or flee? Unless they committed murder, rape, armed robbery and such, is it even worth it anymore? Serious question.
sadly then the issue will be every basic crook will run to the point not being chased ?
I think if one flees the charges for fleeing should be insane harsh again like attempted murder kinda level
sure some will say they will run anyway but that is like the anti gun crowd someone going to murder someone wont care so sure the hardened criminals wwill still run but the basic ones who think yeah I can get away might think not worth it especially if a few buds have been put away for 20 for fleeing and creating a chase situation
I absolutely don't condone the gang beating of a man on the ground.
That said, I wonder at what point LE in general is simply going to stop chasing or fighting those who resist arrest or flee? Unless they committed murder, rape, armed robbery and such, is it even worth it anymore? Serious question.
If a soldier in Afghanistan has his buddy killed by some Taliban scumbag, then the bad guy surrenders and the soldier caps his ass.......that troop is likely going to Leavenworth. Forget the fact that just about any man would probably do the same thing at that moment.
If that is the case for an American fighting man engaging a foreign enemy, then I expect at least as much scrutiny of domestic law enforcement. The guy may have needed a good ass beating, and I would likely have succumbed to the urge myself, but it can't be allowed or dismissed.
If a soldier in Afghanistan has his buddy killed by some Taliban scumbag, then the bad guy surrenders and the soldier caps his ass.......that troop is likely going to Leavenworth. Forget the fact that just about any man would probably do the same thing at that moment.
If that is the case for an American fighting man engaging a foreign enemy, then I expect at least as much scrutiny of domestic law enforcement. The guy may have needed a good ass beating, and I would likely have succumbed to the urge myself, but it can't be allowed or dismissed.
I don't agree with the comparison. I believe a soldier deployed to a combat theater of operations should be allowed a lot more latitude.
I don't agree with the comparison. I believe a soldier deployed to a combat theater of operations should be allowed a lot more latitude.
My point was that if we hold the American fighting man to a relatively strict set of standards against a foreign enemy (and I agree wholeheartedly that their restrictions should be eased) then domestic law enforcement should be held to at least if not higher a standard.
My point was that if we hold the American fighting man to a relatively strict set of standards against a foreign enemy (and I agree wholeheartedly that their restrictions should be eased) then domestic law enforcement should be held to at least if not higher a standard.
We are on the same page. I believe domestic LEO should be held to a very high standard. I do not believe that a grunt should have to worry more about being prosecuted than being KIA.
In this type of work (LE) a certain level of professionalism and restraint is needed. Of course not every officer is capable of this. Most will get caught in the adrenaline rush and not be able to control their temper and actions.
This case will have to be examined and officers disciplined if they went over the line. Many LEO's are good guys, but the few who are not make the rest of them look bad.
In this type of work (LE) a certain level of professionalism and restraint is needed. Of course not every officer is capable of this. Most will get caught in the adrenaline rush and not be able to control their temper and actions.
This case will have to be examined and officers disciplined if they went over the line. Many LEO's are good guys, but the few who are not make the rest of them look bad.
Restraint is the word I meant to use earlier.
In fairness to those deputies I have to say I have a quick temper (I'm told that mellows with age.....I'll be 50 in a few months and I'm still waiting!) so I can see myself whaling the shit out of some scumbag. Of course I'd be short-lived as a cop and deservedly so.
Stand by for yet another tax payer funded "settlement" paid out to a career criminal simply because LEOs who shouldn't be LEOs lose their cool. Nice job guys.
When the rest of the department is using outdated shit because of budget restraints I hope everyone remembers how much was paid out in settlements for that year.
In this type of work (LE) a certain level of professionalism and restraint is needed. Of course not every officer is capable of this. Most will get caught in the adrenaline rush and not be able to control their temper and actions.
This case will have to be examined and officers disciplined if they went over the line. Many LEO's are good guys, but the few who are not make the rest of them look bad.
It's crystal clear they stepped over the line, significantly. The suspect was complying, putting his hands behind his back. But instead of placing restraints on the suspect, they assaulted him using lethal force. Those responsible should be charged with attempted murder.
Restraint is a KEY attribute needed to be a good and successful LEO. The testing, mental exams, and academy can usually weed out the ones that dont have it. However some still get through. Many LEO's probably know or knew that guy that is going to get himself fired because he has a temper. Ive known two. One got fired because of his attitude and the other got arrested after getting addicted to pain meds and stealing RX pads from his doctor.
It's crystal clear they stepped over the line, significantly. The suspect was complying, putting his hands behind his back. But instead of placing restraints on the suspect, they assaulted him using lethal force. Those responsible should be charged with attempted murder.
The charge would be aggravated assault (or whatever California's law for serious injury assault is). Attempted murder you would have to prove that they were in fact trying to kill him.
The charge would be aggravated assault (or whatever California's law for serious injury assault is). Attempted murder you would have to prove that they were in fact trying to kill him.
Aggravated assault it is.
San Bernardino County settles claim by arrestee for $650, 000.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-settlement-san-bernardino-deputy-beating-20150421-story.html
I dont think criminals should ever get any payout ! ever no matter what though
just going to lead to more criminals trying to get suits
if he was innocent YES but guilty of what he was running from and stealing the horse then NO screwed up system needs a major major overhaul IMHO :)
I have never doubted how tough the job must be at times...but pushing other LEO out of the way so you can deliver a better kick? Yep, someone is in trouble. The bright side is the dept. will likely be better in the near future...for how long, who knows?
Side note- After using "a bad temper" as an excuse for some trouble I found myself in, a very wise man said, " son, you don't have a bad temper, you have a lack of self control." I found the accusation very sobering.
Moose-Knuckle
04-22-15, 05:36
San Bernardino County settles claim by arrestee for $650, 000.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-settlement-san-bernardino-deputy-beating-20150421-story.html
Cool, he should get the settlement then be forced to turn around and give it all to the victims of his crimes. IIRC he was wanted for fraud/ID theft.
After that, let the horse he stole and almost ran to death drag him through the hot desert for two hours.
Eurodriver
04-22-15, 05:48
Giving $650,000 to a criminal because of the stupidity of some LEOs is a great way to keep crime at bay.
Giving $650,000 to a criminal because of the stupidity of some LEOs is a great way to keep crime at bay.
maybe the crime that will be kept at bay are the criminal actions of LEOs like this. That would be a good thing.
$650,000.00 - how much will the 'victim' actually see? What do you think his legal costs were? No matter what the taxpayers are out the full 650/
Eurodriver
04-22-15, 17:48
maybe the crime that will be kept at bay are the criminal actions of LEOs like this. That would be a good thing.
I understand what you're saying, and I'd much rather take the "Perp doesn't get $650k of taxpayer dollars and cops don't beat down perps" approach.
However, someone with an identity theft background can do a heck of a lot with $650k (or $300k after lawyer fees). Let's hope he blows it on hookers and blow.
I used to think making LE pay out of pocket (individually and dept) for things like this would stop it, but then I grew up and realized I don't want LE second guessing giving chase after my carjacker because they have bills to pay.
So can the guys victims go after him and get their hands on some of that tax $$??
I keep going back to my premise that we need to change laws that pretty much eliminate the ability of people, their families, survivors or whatever from filing any civil claims for injuries or death sustained as a result of criminal actions. In this case the perp should be SOL for taking a boot in the ass cause he was committing a crime; but the cop should be charged with assault. Problem solved and no tax $$ wasted.
Eurodriver
09-01-15, 15:35
http://www.pe.com/articles/deputies-778786-videotaped-charged.html
Three San Bernardino County sheriff's deputies will face criminal charges for their actions in the April 9 arrest of theft suspect Francis Jared Pusok, District Attorney Mike Ramos announced Tuesday, Sept. 1.
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