View Full Version : What happened to the Revolver market (particularly S&W)
I picked up a new blued 4" Ruger GP100 in .357 yesterday for a decent price . Was actually happy to find it. Looks like pretty slim pickings these days as far as revolvers go- particularly stainless and particularly Smith and Wesson.
Did I miss something. Is there a production issue? Is it all in my head?
I just think there isn't the demand for revolvers out there, what with the proliferation of the semi auto. I mean go to your average gun store, what do you see a lot of? Semi auto pistols, whether they be Glocks, M&Ps, Sigs, and lots of 1911s. Some revolvers, but not many. I remember a few years back I got my dad a Ruger GP100 and it took me about four months to source the model I wanted at a price that wasn't extortion.
Service size revolvers are not popular at the moment and I don't know when they will be, if ever, again. My LGS has cases of semi-autos and quite a few very small 5 shot revolvers. But only 3-4 medium frame revolvers.
The S&W internal lock didn't help any with popularity.......
RamadiDoorkicker
04-15-15, 15:02
+1 for lack of demand. Other than hunting pistols and air frames for CCW, revolvers are becoming as phased out as muzzleloaders. You can't make a rational argument for buying one over a modern semi-automatic.
I guess what I was more getting at is why can't I find certain revolvers? All the arguments about them being anachronistic certainly make sense, but I don't see that as being an issue that will eventually cause them to go away entirely.
They're fun. They're cool. They represent a different, albeit less efficient way to put lead downrange. Someone must be buying them.
Someone must be buying them.
Baby Boomers with disposable income and internet access drive the market for cool old stuff. A bunch of 65-year-old empty nesters who paid off their mortgages went out and bought up all of the guitars, motorcycles, and cars that they dreamed of having as kids.
In the gun world, they started by snapping up Colt Single Actions and Winchester lever guns 15-20 years ago. Then they got into the various vintage Colt DA guns, then military 1911's, then anything from WWII, then anything from WWI. Now they're soaking up K-, L-, and N-frame Smiths. They'll probably start on Viet Nam-era stuff next.
Check out the S&W forums--almost everyone over there is eligible for Social Security.
Okie John
The_War_Wagon
04-15-15, 20:43
When the WunderNine took off in the late '80's, there were still NEW revolvers (companies, lines, calibers, etc.) coming to market in droves. I think the old timers from that era just got older though - and in many cases, have transferred to the Church Triumphant - such that a previously steady market segment (I'm pushing 50 myself) has been "hooked" on semi-autos for 30 years now.
The current crop of LATE Boomers/OLDER Gen X'ers haven't reached the point of arthritis and general orneriness YET, to demand MORE revolvers. And like all business cycles, it's cyclical.
Very interesting analysis. Makes me feel kind of old to be jonesing for unnecessary revolvers when I can't see using them in most realistic situations- besides the range or on cans.
I have a Smith 1.875 inch .357 with a five round capacity that I could imagine carrying in some situations, although a subcompact nine would give you double the capacity for 6 or 7 more ounces of weight.
Someone must be buying them.
Someone must be. When they go up for sale, it isn't for long; unless its at silly prices, well usually.
I rarely see someone else at the range using a double action revolver though. Perhaps its difficult to find appropriate ammunition. Food for the semi-autos is once again common in stores. Revolver fodder is not so easy to find.
Yeah, pistols seem to be the norm. My range kind of sucks no matter what youre shooting. corrugated tin roof makes it louder than most indoor ranges. I took a standard (not vented or ported) .357 six inch once and basically cleared it off firing magnum rounds. That ain't right!
The Dumb Gun Collector
04-16-15, 00:02
For most people a mid sized autoloader seems to make more sense. I think a rational argument can be made that a 6-8 shot .357 magnum double action is a better home defense gun that a 15-17 shot safteyless autoloader with ultra-light trigger and heavy slide. But I will lose that argument in the court of public opinion. People like capacity (rational) and like tacticoolery (less rational).
I suspect ultra-light revolvers will go nowhere. They just make more sense (safe) for pocket carry and purse carry than an autoloader unless it too is a heavy double action, which is pretty rare these days. Combat/duty revolvers, their day is done. Sad but true.
"Combat/duty revolvers, their day is done. Sad but true. "
I like revolvers, I have a few. But I think you are right. But are you right because a good combat/duty revolver just can't do the job [along with the shooter] or because popularity/coolness has passed them by?
NickySantoro
04-16-15, 14:21
Baby Boomers with disposable income and internet access drive the market for cool old stuff.
I'd dispute that. I pretty much fit the exact demographic you refer to and I and most of my acquaintances of a similar age are scaling back, not acquiring. Refining perhaps, but overall thinning the herd if you will. That's anecdotal and no doubt your opinion is based upon hard data. I can only offer my limited observation.
Supply and demand. No supply due to no demand.
When the wonder nines came out, revolvers were still popular due to a mix of old thinking and some truisms.
Old thinking was along the lines of "a semi-auto is unreliable and is prone to fail/jam when you need it most" or "inaccurate" Understand back then, that the majority of gun buyers were older and had a mindset based on the experiences of the past that did not keep up with the evolution of the modern semi-auto. Also, semi-autos back then were thought to only be reliable feeding FMJ ball ammo.
Some of the "truisms" had to do with the projectile effectiveness of the day. No one was going to argue a 9mm was as effective as a .357.
Now as those older folks with the older ideas have passed... and newer generations that are buying now have different paradigms, as said before, the day of the duty revolver is dead. Pretty much the real market for revolvers are small ccw or large revolvers geared toward hunting or other specialty shooting. When one considers how much more expensive and heavy the revolver is compared to a pistol, along with the other advantages of capacity and etc, well, there you go.
All that said, the sweetest shooting handgun ever for me was an old Colt Python.
NickySantoro
04-16-15, 15:40
All that said, the sweetest shooting handgun ever for me was an old Colt Python.
Never owned one but I fired one once. Fit my hand perfectly and the bluing looked about a foot deep. Elegant.
The only revolver I've ever shot was a .38 special BUG carried by an off-duty San Francisco SWAT cop. That was an unpleasant experience and cured me of ever wanting to buy a revolver...
Good cheap semi-autos - the epitome of a disruptive technology hitting primetime, and the revolvers had to retreat upmarket. S&W failboated part of that with the locks, so the high end revolver market wound up being collectors more so than shooters (along with LE departments moving to semi-autos). At this point skilled trainers on revolvers are less common than skilled shooters who are used to semi-auto handguns.
Between the G43 and M&P Shield, I agree with GregBell that anybody who actually shoots the things is going to prefer the single stack baby-9's to an airweight .380... I thought something was wrong with me because I was so amazed at how snappy the 642's are with a usable social load, my little Shields shoot better than I can run something so diminutive with my hand size, so I can't really complain... considering that the semi-auto is cheaper, more accurate, and holds more rounds my answer is pretty much right there.
I'd dispute that. I pretty much fit the exact demographic you refer to and I and most of my acquaintances of a similar age are scaling back, not acquiring. Refining perhaps, but overall thinning the herd if you will. That's anecdotal and no doubt your opinion is based upon hard data. I can only offer my limited observation.
That was very diplomatic.
I'm in the same demographic as you and I'm also scaling back, but I definitely see older guys stocking up on this kind of stuff. That said, I'm not citing hard data, just subjective impression based on eyeballing gun shop inventory for the last 20-odd years. The same thing is happening with vintage Martin, Gibson, and Fender guitars--again, not based on hard data, but on me eyeballing inventory levels for a couple of decades.
Okie John
I enjoy revolvers a lot and take at least one to the range on a weekly basis. I am also a member on the Smith & Wesson forum and more active over there than here and have watched revolver prices skyrocket in the past five to ten years.
S&W revolvers have appreciated in price to a point that younger shooters will have a hard time to justify the price for one. The current plastic semi-autos offer a lot of utility value and fire power in a market that is shifting away from service and target handguns to carry guns.
Even though I am in my mid-fifties I still pursue my little collection of oddball revolvers.
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/image.jpg2_zpsgopyro9j.jpg
Those look like Korth revolvers. Nice.
No one shot up a school with one and as such there is zero movement to ban them. demand for semi autos sky rocketed with the threat of banishment. just my thoughts. and probably only a piece of the pie.
Linkscoach
04-17-15, 09:07
I've been searching for a used j frame on the local used market and have seen nothing. As far as the used market goes I think people are hanging onto them because the demand and therefore ability to get a fair price just isn't there. The exception are collector grade Smiths and Colts. They seem to be bringing more money than ever.
In my area new and used j frames abound. Both new and used k/l/n are not hard to find either- more in demand here due to our ten round max mag limit I imagine. But for s&W it is simple math - they can only produce so much the autos are easier to build with much less ( essentially zero) hand fitting and less machining time. They are selling autos with a huge profit margin ( glocks are said to cost less than half of what they sell for to build and I suspect the m&p series for smith is similar) so they are building the most of what the market demands. Here in New York with our painfully cumbersome pistol permit system there is relatively a smaller market for handguns so they do not sell as easily as long guns so there is more stock around. I frequent what may be the largest gun shop in the state and they will usually have at least three of every model smith revolver new in stock ( one on display and a couple new in box to sell) and around fifty used smiths at any given time.
Those look like Korth revolvers. Nice.
Thanks, you are correct.
I love them and take at least one of them to the range every week. They are accurate and durable, the .357 Mag versions use the same speedloaders like the S&W K frames and I shoot my .357 hefty reloads through the Korths that I would not dare to subject my old Model 19s to.
Even though I am in my mid-fifties I still pursue my little collection of oddball revolvers.
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/image.jpg2_zpsgopyro9j.jpg
Man, those are sweet as hell!
Shot the 4.2" GP100 for the first time today with mostly 38+p but a few .357 loads for good measure. VERY nice shooter. Love the adjustable sights but didn't get much of a chance to work with them since I got rained out. Also fired a SW99 in 9 and a G22.
The SW99 seems impervious to accuracy but the other two are great.
FishTaco,
I am into revolvers since a long time. I learnt pistolcraft on a clubowned Colt OMM after the military and bought most revolvers when interest in wheelguns of the general public was at its lowest. The days of $200 S&W M19 are over and the older models and accessories have collector interest now.
The GP100 is a nice gun, I have one in .38 Special that I got for $250 about ten years ago and the gun does not show the heavy range use that I have subjected it to. I added Nill grips, which feel fine but are very speedloader unfriendly:bad:.
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/image_zpsc5a57bc9.jpg
srcochran49
04-19-15, 15:07
While the revolvers heyday is long past, the platform is not obsolete.
It is still useful as a means to train new shooters, or for use by those who desire a means of self protection but are not really into guns.
Andyd,
Great deal on the GP100. I was actually trying to find a stainless 4" in 38 special +P but couldn't, so I went blued .357.
They heyday of the revolver may be long and properly past, but I hope they remain a viable portion of the market indefinitely.
I shoot more rounds though revolvers than semi-auto pistols. Before I started reloading I shot mainly 9mm and 45 acp.
Since I started reloading I shoot mainly 44 Spl, 45 Colt, 357 Mag, and 38 Spl. I use the big bores for the ranch, so they get shot a lot.
I use the N-frame S&W revolvers to do things most semi-autos with the exception of a few boutique won't do.
FishTaco,
I am into revolvers since a long time. I learnt pistolcraft on a clubowned Colt OMM after the military and bought most revolvers when interest in wheelguns of the general public was at its lowest. The days of $200 S&W M19 are over and the older models and accessories have collector interest now.
The GP100 is a nice gun, I have one in .38 Special that I got for $250 about ten years ago and the gun does not show the heavy range use that I have subjected it to. I added Nill grips, which feel fine but are very speedloader unfriendly:bad:.
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/image_zpsc5a57bc9.jpg
Very nice. Also has to be nice to imagine its current value compared to that purchase price. Do you fire +p in it?
I shoot more rounds though revolvers than semi-auto pistols. Before I started reloading I shot mainly 9mm and 45 acp.
Since I started reloading I shoot mainly 44 Spl, 45 Colt, 357 Mag, and 38 Spl. I use the big bores for the ranch, so they get shot a lot.
I use the N-frame S&W revolvers to do things most semi-autos with the exception of a few boutique won't do.
The N-Frame Smiths seem to be in short supply lately. Any production issues you know of?
The N-Frame Smiths seem to be in short supply lately. Any production issues you know of?
I've not talked to S&W or any big distributors, but I waited for quite a while for a new production Model 24 and had to buy a used 24-3 and 624, I was able to pick up a new S&W 25-15 last summer.
I hope some of these plastic heads inherit some N-frames and sell them on here for what they think they're worth.
I love a revolver but why go with 6-8 rounds when a G17 has 17 rounds and is totally reliable?
The N-Frame Smiths seem to be in short supply lately. Any production issues you know of?
As far as S&W is concerned they can't make 'em fast enough. They sell the new 9mm revolvers about as fast as they hit the shelves.
As far as the customer is concerned, S&W might be going a bit too quick. If you are buying new, check it thoroughly. The forcing cone area is a good place to start the inspection. I know of more than one new revolver where this wasn't properly done. Smith fixed it but still....
Lovear some of us myself included shoot a revolver better than the autos. I for one can shoot groups at 25 and even 50 yards with the revolver that can only be dreamt of with the glock or similar modern autos. Outside of a tuned 1911 or sig 210 or similar high end auto, the revolver , in skilled hands, can easily out shoot for accuracy the modern autos. I have shot sub six inch 50 yard groups with a simple thin barrel model ten, while on my best day with a modern auto I can't even come close to that. There are some that can shoot the modern autos to a high degree, but I am not one of them. I have to really struggle to obtain sub three inch groups at 25 yards with the glock but can do it with ease with a revolver.
Lovear some of us myself included shoot a revolver better than the autos. I for one can shoot groups at 25 and even 50 yards with the revolver that can only be dreamt of with the glock or similar modern autos. Outside of a tuned 1911 or sig 210 or similar high end auto, the revolver , in skilled hands, can easily out shoot for accuracy the modern autos. I have shot sub six inch 50 yard groups with a simple thin barrel model ten, while on my best day with a modern auto I can't even come close to that. There are some that can shoot the modern autos to a high degree, but I am not one of them. I have to really struggle to obtain sub three inch groups at 25 yards with the glock but can do it with ease with a revolver.
I hear you! A few years back I found a Smith M13 3" for a decent price. I grew up shooting revolvers so this one was familiar from the beginning. But I was amazed on how accurately I could shoot this fixed sight short barrel revolver. Shooting DA head shoots at 25 yards takes concentration but it can be done and I have confidence I can do it on command. The only gun easier to shoot as accurately is my Colt Government.
Lovear some of us myself included shoot a revolver better than the autos. I for one can shoot groups at 25 and even 50 yards with the revolver that can only be dreamt of with the glock or similar modern autos. Outside of a tuned 1911 or sig 210 or similar high end auto, the revolver , in skilled hands, can easily out shoot for accuracy the modern autos. I have shot sub six inch 50 yard groups with a simple thin barrel model ten, while on my best day with a modern auto I can't even come close to that. There are some that can shoot the modern autos to a high degree, but I am not one of them. I have to really struggle to obtain sub three inch groups at 25 yards with the glock but can do it with ease with a revolver.
Understand. I will have to try one again. I haven't shot one in years.
As far as S&W is concerned they can't make 'em fast enough. They sell the new 9mm revolvers about as fast as they hit the shelves.
As far as the customer is concerned, S&W might be going a bit too quick. If you are buying new, check it thoroughly. The forcing cone area is a good place to start the inspection. I know of more than one new revolver where this wasn't properly done. Smith fixed it but still....
That's quite interesting. What are we supposed to be looking for in this area?
That's quite interesting. What are we supposed to be looking for in this area?
Assuming you are checking new guns, open the cylinder and look closely at the forcing cone for anything that appears odd or unusual. I've seen a couple that should not have gotten by an experienced QA inspector because they were not machined correctly.
Watch out for burrs on the breech end of the barrel. These are not a deal-breaker if nothing is mechanically wrong with the gun. My barrel had a really sharp edge that I addressed using a super-fine diamond hone.
Close the cylinder and hold the gun up to the light so you can assess the cylinder gap.
Does the band of light between the cylinder face and the barrel appear perfectly even or is it tapered? Several people with new guns have had the end of the barrel show up not square. A 929 had a visibly broader gap at the bottom than the top but a few others have had the gap on one side (left/right) that is in spec and the other was out of spec. These are harder to detect visually but feeler gauges will catch it.
Does the gap look square but its too wide/narrow?
Thanks for the advice. Took a long look at a couple 629 revolvers today. I think the forcing cone area was OK, although the overall finish on one of them looked a bit rough. That one also was somewhat difficult to get the cylinder to swing out.
Still mulling this over. I'll probably pick up one.
Very nice. Also has to be nice to imagine its current value compared to that purchase price. Do you fire +p in it?
Yes to +P+. I cast and reload my own and the gun can take it. My kids used to always put it into the range bag and I gave it a trigger job. I had gotten the IBOK from Iowegan and did it accordingly. The D/A is pretty good for a GP100.
Last year I was alerted to a good deal on S&W M64 4" RB revolvers for $199. I right away got three of them, two for my sons and one for myself. They are former Brinks guns and have been obviously shot less than being carried and neglected. One had a bad cylinder stop, which I replaced from my parts stash.
Occasionally there are still deals on trade-in revolvers but deals are getting more rare. I remember picking S&W M&P revolvers up for under $100...
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/imagejpg1_zps448814e7.jpg
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