View Full Version : Smith& Wesson Shield troubles.
This past Monday I got a 9mm Smith & Wesson Shield (the version without the thumb safety) with the intention of using it as a CCW. So the next day I set out putting rounds through it to check reliability, with the goal of putting at least 350-500 rounds of ball through it before then testing it with defensive loads.
The first day I put 100 rounds of Blazer FMJ through it without any issue.
Today I went out again, and fired 49 more rounds of Blazer, again with no problems. I then switched to Speer Lawman FMJ and toward the end of that 50 round box I got an FTE where the case was stuck completely vertically in the ejection port. That was disappointing, but I kept going.
I then switched to the other brand of ammo I had, some Winchester WinClean I've had kicking around for years. At this point the shooting session became a disaster, during the course of that 50 round box I had repeated FTEs with all four of the different magazines I was using.
In hindsight I wish I had photographed the first FTE that I got with the Speer Lawman because it was different than the others, but the following pics are of the first of the WinClean FTEs I got. The subsequent ones with that ammo all looked pretty much identical.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/257162ce-e637-432f-acbf-81d518f339e7.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150417_171218_338.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150417_171233_321.jpg
The gun was not cleaned at any point. I also deliberately did not lube it, hoping to see how well it would work when dry. Perhaps that was the problem, and it being dry and getting progressively dirtier with continued firing was to blame, but does anyone else have any thoughts?
I'm not clear if it had a particular dislike for the WinClean or if it was simply a case of the issues with the gun compounding by the time I started using that ammo, as the initial FTE was with the Speer stuff after all.
This was kind of a bummer as my initial impressions of it were positive (Aside from the trigger, but I started getting used to it.) and I was hoping to have this thing up and running as a CCW piece by the end of the month. Obviously I can't do that now until it shows that it will run reliably.
vicious_cb
04-17-15, 19:32
First of all you should have cleaned and lubed it, this is protocol for any new gun. The recoil springs on a new shield are extremely stiff, you need keep the slide locked back for a few days and let the springs break in. A poorly lubed gun combined with stiff springs is your issue. I suggest you CLEAN it, LUBE it and keep the slide locked back until your next range trip.
Honestly I still dont know why people dont clean and lube guns out of the box, its stupid and proves nothing about the reliability of the gun.
I have the exact same gun, except I cleaned it, lubed it out of the box and instructed the dealer to keep the slide locked back until I could pick the gun up as per Grant's advice. It ran about 1.2k rnds without any additional cleaning or lubing before I got a FTF.
Fair enough, I'll take that advice and then put some more rounds through it next week. I will be quite happy if all this was just due to user error rather than an actual problem with the gun.
I have a Shield 9mm, cleaned it before shooting, applied Slip2000 EWL and have had no problems thru about 500 rounds now.
First of all you should have cleaned and lubed it, this is protocol for any new gun. The recoil springs on a new shield are extremely stiff, you need keep the slide locked back for a few days and let the springs break in. A poorly lubed gun combined with stiff springs is your issue. I suggest you CLEAN it, LUBE it and keep the slide locked back until your next range trip.
Honestly I still dont know why people dont clean and lube guns out of the box, its stupid and proves nothing about the reliability of the gun.
I have the exact same gun, except I cleaned it, lubed it out of the box and instructed the dealer to keep the slide locked back until I could pick the gun up as per Grant's advice. It ran about 1.2k rnds without any additional cleaning or lubing before I got a FTF.
I'm with you, it like buying a new truck and never changing the oil, 'it blew up after 45,000 miles, what's wrong with it!"
I probably clean excessively, after every trip to the range, looking at the mechanical bits is part of the fun for me.
I am going to pick up my second Shield this Sunday (the first one is fine, the new one is because California) Never any trouble with mine, even after I (a complete amateur) installed an apex kit.
Inkslinger
04-17-15, 20:53
First of all you should have cleaned and lubed it, this is protocol for any new gun. The recoil springs on a new shield are extremely stiff, you need keep the slide locked back for a few days and let the springs break in. A poorly lubed gun combined with stiff springs is your issue. I suggest you CLEAN it, LUBE it and keep the slide locked back until your next range trip.
Honestly I still dont know why people dont clean and lube guns out of the box, its stupid and proves nothing about the reliability of the gun.
I have the exact same gun, except I cleaned it, lubed it out of the box and instructed the dealer to keep the slide locked back until I could pick the gun up as per Grant's advice. It ran about 1.2k rnds without any additional cleaning or lubing before I got a FTF.
I'm curious about how leaving the slide locked back will soften the recoil spring? I was always under the impression that spring tension decreased with compression and decompression. Much like magazine. People are always worried that storing loaded magazines will wear out the spring. I think we know that is not true. So does a pistols recoil spring react differently?
Problem free shield 9 here. Clean and lube often. I pay special Attn to the extractor. Definately Clean before shooting the thing. It's a sub compact, not a duty pistol. It will run like one with care. I have around 1k through mine not a single malf.
At this point you don't know if, as your post titles says "Smith& Wesson Shield troubles." are Shield troubles, or ammo troubles, or user troubles.
IMHO you wasted your time and ammo on this "reliability test". You first have to make sure you have a pistol working at 100% reliability. Then if you want to run a "will it work when dry test" then buy one of the many firearms degreasers that are on the market and remove all lube and do your test. Personally I wouldn't purposely run a dry pistol and run the risk of damaging it but that's your call.
I've had my shield for a couple years and easily have 3k rounds through it. I've had a few fte's and those were with Winchester white box ammo and tulammo. I completely avoid those brands now and I've had no problems.
I agree with others in thinking that taking a new and fresh out of the box gun and shooting it without cleaning proves nothing about reliability. Reliability testing should include having the gun in a state in which you would carry it. I'll go a few hundred rounds before cleaning but I'll mostly clean it after every range session. Try other brands of self defense ammo. My preference is hornady critical duty and I have never had any issues whatsoever.
Well I'm certainly not going to run it dry again. It absolutely was a waste of ammo. And really, in hindsight it didn't make much sense as you'll never see me running an AR dry. I've shot Glocks and AKs dry on many occasions without issue and that may have unfairly colored my expectations.
In any case I'm going to follow the advice I've been given and hopefully this turns out to be a problem of my own doing.
keep us updated on it, it's a cool little gun, even my new stupid ca version (the gun is almost to small for all the warning labels and 'safety' devices).
My educated guess is that the problem is the ammo--in addition to cleaning/lubing. My experience with Lawman ammo has not been good. I put it in the Walmart white box category that works ok most of the time in the bigger service pistols. Your Shield is a specialty weapon with all the peculiarities of sub compact pistols.
Clean the chamber most thoroughly. Do the same for the breech face and area under the extractor and leave the chamber free of oil.
I suggest that you disassemble and clean the magazines. Next run a couple mags of +P ammo through it. I think that you will be pleased.
This is virtually the same problem i had with my Shield. It did NOT matter what state the weapon was in ( Clean, dirty, or lubricated) or the type of ammunition used. It would not run.
It took 3 trips to S&W for a fix (for now).
They eventually replaced the extractor, spring and recoil assembly.
We will see what the future holds for this weapon. Currently 500 rounds without any FTF or FTE's. But ejection is still VERY erratic .
cutter_spc
04-18-15, 13:12
I just bought a Shield in 9 mm. It's jammed on me one time, the very first round I loaded, LOL. The round took a nose dive into the feed ramp and kinda did a reverse stove pipe, but no problems since, I have notice it seems to eject the brass in the same location consistently and that is odd as all I have run through it are mixed head stamp hand loads. Also very accurate with very little recoil. More trigger time will tell me more.
So when I start shooting this again, about how often should it be re-cleaned and lubed during the "test"? I guess I don't have a clear idea of what to expect as this is pretty much the first handgun that I've put a real "round count" through in the last ten years that wasn't a Gen 3 Glock (I'm actually not much of a pistol guy, my long gun collection is pretty diverse but my handguns are fewer in number and mostly serve utilitarian functions.) I want to make sure i'm not hampering things by having unrealistic expectations.
jerrysimons
04-19-15, 11:18
Welcome to the club dude:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?135400-WHAT-S-SHIPPING-SW-M-amp-P-Shield-9mm-w-Running-Review-(UPDATED-12-20-14)
Some S&W M&P Shields are just lemons. Smith can't even fix them it seems. My theory is there is a design weakness having to do something with extractor leverage that only rears its head when exacerbated by tolerance stacking. Mine and others have nasty FTE where the extractor claw jumps the case rim leaving an empty round mostly in the chamber with the slide jamming a new round up under it, locking everything up; no tap rack bang will fix it, you have to force the mag out then clear the empty shell from the chamber. My Shield never made it to carry duty. 'Hoping the G43 will be better.
That sucks that this seems to be an issue with some of them. the Shield also gets a lot of good press too though, which is how I ended up deciding to buy one in the first place. I'm going to reserve judgement on mine for now because it sounds likely that the issues I had may have been user generated. We'll see how it does this week.
Welcome to the club dude:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?135400-WHAT-S-SHIPPING-SW-M-amp-P-Shield-9mm-w-Running-Review-(UPDATED-12-20-14)
Some S&W M&P Shields are just lemons. Smith can't even fix them it seems. My theory is there is a design weakness having to do something with extractor leverage that only rears its head when exacerbated by tolerance stacking. Mine and others have nasty FTE where the extractor claw jumps the case rim leaving an empty round mostly in the chamber with the slide jamming a new round up under it, locking everything up; no tap rack bang will fix it, you have to force the mag out then clear the empty shell from the chamber. My Shield never made it to carry duty. 'Hoping the G43 will be better.
I had the same problem with mine. S&W no fixee either.
So when I start shooting this again, about how often should it be re-cleaned and lubed during the "test"? I guess I don't have a clear idea of what to expect as this is pretty much the first handgun that I've put a real "round count" through in the last ten years that wasn't a Gen 3 Glock (I'm actually not much of a pistol guy, my long gun collection is pretty diverse but my handguns are fewer in number and mostly serve utilitarian functions.) I want to make sure I'm not hampering things by having unrealistic expectations.
I guess my question for you is....what are the parameters for your "test", what are you trying to test?
Personally I don't intentionally run any gun dry. I usually shoot 100-200 rounds per range session and usually clean & lube them as per the user's manual after every range session even though they're probably designed to run many hundreds of rounds before needing cleaned.
After shooting, disassemble/field strip, wipe down and re-lube. reassemble and repeat.
Going forward, I guess that's how I'm going to do this. Clean/lube, fire probably 100-200 rounds per session, and repeat. I'll probably shoot all WinClean for one session then compare it to whatever other brands I use as well.
If I get through 350-500 or so rounds without any issues that can't be attributed to say, a specific brand of ammo or something, I'll move on to a couple boxes of defensive ammo.
Interesting.. I may have read something of this back when they first came out. Seems most pistols have a few bad apples.. My Shields have yest to malfunction however. I did sell the 40, but it was because I just didn't like the recoil..
My personal opinion is that when I'm unhappy with a pistol, I just sell it at a loss with full disclosure ..and move on
Slvr Surfr
04-20-15, 17:28
Another problem free shield 9 owner here. I've run 600-700 rounds including factory ammunition and reloads. Clean and lube after shooting.
I had something like 5 FTEs in the first 300 rounds, then nary a problem since. Now well over 750 or so through it.
I kept the slide locked back for a few days, and cleaned and lubed it with Breakfree and Slip EWL respectively. Fired 250 rounds of Speer Lawman 124gr TMJ with no issues. So I'm off to a good start I'd say.
vicious_cb
04-21-15, 19:37
Good to hear. After it breaks in then you can do a reliability test. Starting with the pistol clean and lubed it should run at least 1k rounds without any maintenance.
Inkslinger
04-22-15, 10:59
I would still like someone to explain to me how leaving a slide locked back on a pistol softens the recoil spring. If there is any data supporting this, should I unload all of my rifle and pistol magazines?
I would still like someone to explain to me how leaving a slide locked back on a pistol softens the recoil spring. If there is any data supporting this, should I unload all of my rifle and pistol magazines?
I have wondered the same thing!
I've always been under the assumption that a spring weakens with repeated compression & decompression, not just the mere compressing and leaving compressed. I've read of (haven't seen personally) old military magazines being fully loaded for 30-40 years and still function properly. About the only thing I can think of where locking the slide back and leaving it might help is "maybe?" it aids the spring in taking a uniform set on the recoil guide rod which in turn "might" help with easier racking of the slide?
Hopefully a "Spring Expert" will chime in here with a factual explanation! Inquiring minds need to know! :D
Problem free with mine. Since it's registered as my off duty pistol, I shoot my department's qualification course quarterly with my duty load (147GR HST) as well as Gold Dot 124 GR. I don't know how many rounds I have through it, and to be honest I'm not counting. I haven't had any issues, thus far. It's been a reliable and accurate little pistol for me. I still think most of the problems I'm hearing are shooter induced.
Ok...so here's what happened this time..
Cleaned and lubed with Breakfree and Slip EWL again. Fired 50 rounds of Speer Lawman ball and 200 rounds of Federal ball without issue - making for 500 consecutive rounds of ball ammo (with one cleaning/lubing in between each batch of 250 rounds) fired without any malfunctions.
After the ball I moved on to hollowpoints, specifically 124gr Hornady TAP FPD, with the blackened cases. I had 200 rounds of it laying around that I bought years ago, while I've read it isn't a particularly great performer I was considering carrying it until I could procure a quantity of something better.
About four rounds in I had an FTE:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150425_175538_875.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150425_175528_699.jpg
The slide locked open, with the empty case still sitting loosely in the chamber. I'm not exactly much of an expert at diagnosing pistol malfs but it *looked* like the next live round in the mag was slightly nose down, so my thinking is that when the spent case encountered the bound up round it was unable to be extracted as the slide opened, the extractor slipped off of it, then the slide was locked back from the round in the mag being unable to move forward. The mag would not drop free and had to be stripped out, as soon as I did the slide slammed shut, re-chambering the empty case. I reinserted the mag and fired the remaining rounds without issue, including the top round that had apparently un-bound itself. After that mag I then fired an additional 73 rounds of the TAP FPD without further problem.
So I guess my question is what does this do to my reliability round count? Do I need to start over from the beginning with ball, or just avoid TAP FPD (it was only going to be an interim carry load anyway.) and continue testing other carry loads, or was this malf more of a simple fluke,? as it looked magazine induced to me.
It seems the flat wire springs do soften up some when left locked back.
I don't know if the spring gets continually weaker based on time compressed or just takes a set and maintains a lower force.
I suspect it's the latter.
Depending on how they're designed, some pistols seem to do best with the higher force of a fresh spring and some seem to need the spring broken in to run their best.
I have wondered the same thing!
I've always been under the assumption that a spring weakens with repeated compression & decompression, not just the mere compressing and leaving compressed. I've read of (haven't seen personally) old military magazines being fully loaded for 30-40 years and still function properly. About the only thing I can think of where locking the slide back and leaving it might help is "maybe?" it aids the spring in taking a uniform set on the recoil guide rod which in turn "might" help with easier racking of the slide?
Hopefully a "Spring Expert" will chime in here with a factual explanation! Inquiring minds need to know! :D
My Shield has been awesome. I got it from Grant with the options of DCAK, polished internals, and the APEX trigger upgrade. One of my favorite pistols.
vicious_cb
04-26-15, 05:02
Ok...so here's what happened this time..
Cleaned and lubed with Breakfree and Slip EWL again. Fired 50 rounds of Speer Lawman ball and 200 rounds of Federal ball without issue - making for 500 consecutive rounds of ball ammo (with one cleaning/lubing in between each batch of 250 rounds) fired without any malfunctions.
After the ball I moved on to hollowpoints, specifically 124gr Hornady TAP FPD, with the blackened cases. I had 200 rounds of it laying around that I bought years ago, while I've read it isn't a particularly great performer I was considering carrying it until I could procure a quantity of something better.
About four rounds in I had an FTE:
The slide locked open, with the empty case still sitting loosely in the chamber. I'm not exactly much of an expert at diagnosing pistol malfs but it *looked* like the next live round in the mag was slightly nose down, so my thinking is that when the spent case encountered the bound up round it was unable to be extracted as the slide opened, the extractor slipped off of it, then the slide was locked back from the round in the mag being unable to move forward. The mag would not drop free and had to be stripped out, as soon as I did the slide slammed shut, re-chambering the empty case. I reinserted the mag and fired the remaining rounds without issue, including the top round that had apparently un-bound itself. After that mag I then fired an additional 73 rounds of the TAP FPD without further problem.
So I guess my question is what does this do to my reliability round count? Do I need to start over from the beginning with ball, or just avoid TAP FPD (it was only going to be an interim carry load anyway.) and continue testing other carry loads, or was this malf more of a simple fluke,? as it looked magazine induced to me.
If it was only 1 isolated malfunction I would just note the ammo and mag that was used and continue on. It might have just been a bad round.
All new firearms need to be cleaned before firing. This is so fundamental and I can't understand why people keep ignoring this, firing a new gun and then coming online with something wrong.
I believe you have two issues. Lack of cleaning and oiling and ammo. Winchester FMJ in my experince is garbage. My USP45 cycled it reliably but after 100 rounds it looked like I poured tar into my gun.
Mix crappy dirty underpowered ammo, a brand new stiff recoil spring, and lack of cleaning packing oil and relubing and there you have it.
I'm avoiding the Winchester WinClean completely for the time being, just to eliminate that variable.
I have been cleaning and lubing before shooting after my initial problems and the Shield then ate 500 rounds of ball without issue. I intend to make sure it's clean and lubed from here on out. The one problem with the TAP FPD looked to have originated in the magazine however I can't be sure. So I guess I'm going to finish off the TAP and look for something else as a carry load, then probably shoot more ball as well. I'm pretty eager to retire my Glock 23 in favor of the Shield, especially with warm weather coming, but I want to feel like the Shield is sufficiently trustworthy before carrying it.
I'm avoiding the Winchester WinClean completely for the time being, just to eliminate that variable.
I have been cleaning and lubing before shooting after my initial problems and the Shield then ate 500 rounds of ball without issue. I intend to make sure it's clean and lubed from here on out. The one problem with the TAP FPD looked to have originated in the magazine however I can't be sure. So I guess I'm going to finish off the TAP and look for something else as a carry load, then probably shoot more ball as well. I'm pretty eager to retire my Glock 23 in favor of the Shield, especially with warm weather coming, but I want to feel like the Shield is sufficiently trustworthy before carrying it.
Completely agree with you wanting confidence in the gun.
Over at HKPRO.com several members have talked about having issues with Hornady ammunition. It has been confirmed by both HK and Hornady that the OAL of the cartridges made by Hornady is longer than spec which cause feed issues in several HKs while other defensive loads such as Federal HSTs, Ranger Ts, Golden Sabers, and Gold Dots (all of which I have fired through my HKs) run without an issue.
I cant speak for its performance in other firearms makes, but because Hornady knows of this and doesnt change it, I stay away from them all together.
Federal HST or Speer Hold Dots FTW.
All of my carry pistol options use these two rounds. Outside of Mrs CatSnipah's revolver, which currently has Golden Sabers.
In the recent past, Mr. Vickers reported seeing much crap factory ammo in his classes. The makers know that they can sell all that they make--regardless. Before the era of white box ammo began about 25 years ago, there was no distinction between generic and premium ammunition. A bullet was a bullet.
jerrysimons
04-26-15, 13:26
Ok...so here's what happened this time..
Cleaned and lubed with Breakfree and Slip EWL again. Fired 50 rounds of Speer Lawman ball and 200 rounds of Federal ball without issue - making for 500 consecutive rounds of ball ammo (with one cleaning/lubing in between each batch of 250 rounds) fired without any malfunctions.
After the ball I moved on to hollowpoints, specifically 124gr Hornady TAP FPD, with the blackened cases. I had 200 rounds of it laying around that I bought years ago, while I've read it isn't a particularly great performer I was considering carrying it until I could procure a quantity of something better.
About four rounds in I had an FTE:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150425_175538_875.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150425_175528_699.jpg
The slide locked open, with the empty case still sitting loosely in the chamber. I'm not exactly much of an expert at diagnosing pistol malfs but it *looked* like the next live round in the mag was slightly nose down, so my thinking is that when the spent case encountered the bound up round it was unable to be extracted as the slide opened, the extractor slipped off of it, then the slide was locked back from the round in the mag being unable to move forward. The mag would not drop free and had to be stripped out, as soon as I did the slide slammed shut, re-chambering the empty case. I reinserted the mag and fired the remaining rounds without issue, including the top round that had apparently un-bound itself. After that mag I then fired an additional 73 rounds of the TAP FPD without further problem.
So I guess my question is what does this do to my reliability round count? Do I need to start over from the beginning with ball, or just avoid TAP FPD (it was only going to be an interim carry load anyway.) and continue testing other carry loads, or was this malf more of a simple fluke,? as it looked magazine induced to me.
That is the exact malfunction I described above as plaguing an unknown but seemingly small percentage of Shields. Only you can decide what kind of reliability track record in your carry gun you are willing to stake your life on. I know my Sheild FTEx more frequently than 1 in 600rds. Mine is more like 1 in 150rds. Either is too much IMO. The count would start over as far as I am concerned in your situation. Personally I wouldn't feel good about a gun with a failure rate of less than 1 in 1500rds able to be remedied by a simple tap, rack, bang. Maybe that is too much to ask for a gun the Sheilds size but we'll see as I test other guns (G43, PPS) and consider gambling on another Sheild from Grant.
I'd have felt a lot better if I had made it to the 1k mark before having another malf, even if my most recent FTE may have been a mag-induced fluke. I'm going on a trip at the end of next week where I was hoping to be able to carry a smaller, lighter gun than my G23. This might sound odd but I'm pretty tired of both it, and the .40 cal in general. If nothing else, I have a G19 that I rarely even touch, I may focus on trying to get some rounds through that this week instead and worry about the Shield when I get back.
While it's reliability is currently a question mark, I do like the gun itself so hopefully I can get this straightened out.
If you have time to run the G19, buy some Fed HST or Gold Dots in 124gr and shoot the chit out of it. You gun may not like the Hornady.
Kind of like rifles won't shoot some ammo. Some cars won't run worth a crap on some brands of gasoline either.
This past Monday I got a 9mm Smith & Wesson Shield (the version without the thumb safety) with the intention of using it as a CCW. So the next day I set out putting rounds through it to check reliability, with the goal of putting at least 350-500 rounds of ball through it before then testing it with defensive loads.
The first day I put 100 rounds of Blazer FMJ through it without any issue.
Today I went out again, and fired 49 more rounds of Blazer, again with no problems. I then switched to Speer Lawman FMJ and toward the end of that 50 round box I got an FTE where the case was stuck completely vertically in the ejection port. That was disappointing, but I kept going.
I then switched to the other brand of ammo I had, some Winchester WinClean I've had kicking around for years. At this point the shooting session became a disaster, during the course of that 50 round box I had repeated FTEs with all four of the different magazines I was using.
In hindsight I wish I had photographed the first FTE that I got with the Speer Lawman because it was different than the others, but the following pics are of the first of the WinClean FTEs I got. The subsequent ones with that ammo all looked pretty much identical.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/257162ce-e637-432f-acbf-81d518f339e7.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150417_171218_338.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150417_171233_321.jpg
The gun was not cleaned at any point. I also deliberately did not lube it, hoping to see how well it would work when dry. Perhaps that was the problem, and it being dry and getting progressively dirtier with continued firing was to blame, but does anyone else have any thoughts?
I'm not clear if it had a particular dislike for the WinClean or if it was simply a case of the issues with the gun compounding by the time I started using that ammo, as the initial FTE was with the Speer stuff after all.
This was kind of a bummer as my initial impressions of it were positive (Aside from the trigger, but I started getting used to it.) and I was hoping to have this thing up and running as a CCW piece by the end of the month. Obviously I can't do that now until it shows that it will run reliably.
A loose grip from your hand can cause this.
If you have time to run the G19, buy some Fed HST or Gold Dots in 124gr and shoot the chit out of it. You gun may not like the Hornady.
Kind of like rifles won't shoot some ammo. Some cars won't run worth a crap on some brands of gasoline either.
Yeah, it seems like the TAP FPD may be an underwhelming performer based on what I've read and I don't have enough of it left to effectively test it in the G19 and still have enough to carry anyway. Those other two loads you mention were among the two I was looking into acquiring for the Shield also.
A loose grip from your hand can cause this.
Could be, but I stopped getting that *particular* type of malfunction when I applied some Slip EWL and switched ammo.
Yeah, it seems like the TAP FPD may be an underwhelming performer based on what I've read and I don't have enough of it left to effectively test it in the G19 and still have enough to carry anyway. Those other two loads you mention were among the two I was looking into acquiring for the Shield also.
Could be, but I stopped getting that *particular* type of malfunction when I applied some Slip EWL and switched ammo.
Look for the 124gr +P in the Gold Dots and Standard Pressure or +P in the HST.
GDHP 115gr http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/50-round-box-9mm-luger-speer-gold-dot-115-grain-hollow-point-le-ammo-53614
GDHP 115gr +P+ http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/50-round-box-9mm-luger-p-speer-gold-dot-115-grain-hollow-point-le-ammo-53612
I have a theory about these failures I would like to share. I have a relatively new Shield 9mm which experienced similar stoppages. All within the first 150 rounds. It then cleared up. I went to the range today with two brand new 7 round magazines.. Yup I had a failure within the first 5 rounds. So, my theory is these are magazine related stoppages due to springs that are not yet broken in. Once used for several magazines worth of shooting stoppages disappear. This is in no way rebutting the cleaning issue, but an interesting observation on my Shield.
Thoughts?
Only 100 round on my shield (mixed ammo) all good.
Look for the 124gr +P in the Gold Dots and Standard Pressure or +P in the HST.
GDHP 115gr http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/50-round-box-9mm-luger-speer-gold-dot-115-grain-hollow-point-le-ammo-53614
GDHP 115gr +P+ http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/50-round-box-9mm-luger-p-speer-gold-dot-115-grain-hollow-point-le-ammo-53612
Thanks!
I have a theory about these failures I would like to share. I have a relatively new Shield 9mm which experienced similar stoppages. All within the first 150 rounds. It then cleared up. I went to the range today with two brand new 7 round magazines.. Yup I had a failure within the first 5 rounds. So, my theory is these are magazine related stoppages due to springs that are not yet broken in. Once used for several magazines worth of shooting stoppages disappear. This is in no way rebutting the cleaning issue, but an interesting observation on my Shield.
Thoughts?
The more recent malf that I had with the TAP FPD certainly *seemed* like it was magazine related, but by that point all four of my magazines had fed dozens of rounds.
Since I'm running out of time before my trip and can't be sure what's going on (the Shield may indeed be perfectly fine, and the mag maybe just got some grit in it from being dropped in the dirt), I'm temporarily putting a halt on shooting the Shield and will try to get some rounds through the G19 instead so I can at least get away from my G23 if nothing else.
I'm with you, it like buying a new truck and never changing the oil, 'it blew up after 45,000 miles, what's wrong with it!"
I probably clean excessively, after every trip to the range, looking at the mechanical bits is part of the fun for me.
I am going to pick up my second Shield this Sunday (the first one is fine, the new one is because California) Never any trouble with mine, even after I (a complete amateur) installed an apex kit.
nice could you let us know which apex kit and how do you like it Thanks
nice could you let us know which apex kit and how do you like it Thanks
I have the APEX Shield Carry Kit from Brownells. http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/trigger-parts/triggers/m-p-shield-action-enhancements-prod61094.aspx
100-010-772WB
Shield Carry Kit
Mfr Part: 100076
My Shield has several hundred rounds through it of various manufactures.
Trigger pull is averaging 4 lb 8 oz. Great reset, crisp break.
Factory trigger is still in place.
It was 6 lb 13 oz by my Lyman Digital gauge before any changes, and a very crunchy sounds as you engaged the striker block.
Well I halted testing on the Shield back at the end of April when it became apparent I wasn't going to have it ready for carry in time for my trip.
To summarize, I had some initial problems that were likely due to insufficient lubrication and perhaps a specific brand of ammo that the gun didn't like. (Winchester WinClean).
After that I put 500 rounds of ball through it without issue, moved on to testing with some Hornady TAP FPD 124gr and had one malf out of 80 that I felt may have been a mag-related fluke. By this time I had mostly run out of 9mm and wasn't able to get any other decent defensive load in time to test it in the Shield before my trip and I shelved the gun for about a month.
A couple weeks ago I haf finally built up my 9mm supplies again and resumed testing.
This time the Shield ate another 210 rounds of ball (Herters) without issue. Feeling optimistic I figured I'd run some more HP through it.
Finally I got that chance yesterday. So I tested the Shield out with the remaining 150 rounds of TAP FPD and 100 rounds of Golden Saber.
Results were one round of TAP failed to chamber when it went nose into the feedramp and one round of Golden Saber failed to eject.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150626_165646_408.jpg
The round below the jammed case is a live round that obviously failed to chamber and is floating around in there.
As far as I'm concerned I'm not going to be carrying this gun. Whether it's an issue with the gun itself or it's just a bad fit for me I don't know (While I don't find it unpleasant to shoot, I don't shoot it that well and find I have difficulty with it sliding around in my hand, so perhaps a bad grip is contributing to the problems.)
Lately I've been carrying a VP9....which has given me no issues but is also kind of the opposite direction I wanted to go in terms of CCW as it's even bigger than my G23 and 19 however getting a good holster for it has made s world of difference so perhaps that's the route I should take with my Glocks as well.
Sorry to read that you are still having problems with this Shield.
At this point I'd send it back to S&W and give them a shot at fixing it. Refer them to this thread for documentation.
My Shield has been trouble free, so far. But, I have a question. When stripping it for cleaning, the book says to push down that I'll lever ( kinda green/yellow) before lowering the lock and removing the slide. My question is what if you DON'T lower that little yellow thing before you remove the slide? I didn't try it but wondering because it is an action that has to take place on all my pistols.
My Shield has been trouble free, so far. But, I have a question. When stripping it for cleaning, the book says to push down that I'll lever ( kinda green/yellow) before lowering the lock and removing the slide. My question is what if you DON'T lower that little yellow thing before you remove the slide? I didn't try it but wondering because it is an action that has to take place on all my pistols.
All that little lever does is lower the sear so you can remove the slide. The other way to take the slide off is: Lock slide to rear, rotate take down lever, hold on to slide and gently lower it to normal in battery position, pull the trigger, and the slide comes off. S&W created that little lever to have a way to take down the pistol without pulling the trigger.
Well I halted testing on the Shield back at the end of April when it became apparent I wasn't going to have it ready for carry in time for my trip.
To summarize, I had some initial problems that were likely due to insufficient lubrication and perhaps a specific brand of ammo that the gun didn't like. (Winchester WinClean).
After that I put 500 rounds of ball through it without issue, moved on to testing with some Hornady TAP FPD 124gr and had one malf out of 80 that I felt may have been a mag-related fluke. By this time I had mostly run out of 9mm and wasn't able to get any other decent defensive load in time to test it in the Shield before my trip and I shelved the gun for about a month.
A couple weeks ago I haf finally built up my 9mm supplies again and resumed testing.
This time the Shield ate another 210 rounds of ball (Herters) without issue. Feeling optimistic I figured I'd run some more HP through it.
Finally I got that chance yesterday. So I tested the Shield out with the remaining 150 rounds of TAP FPD and 100 rounds of Golden Saber.
Results were one round of TAP failed to chamber when it went nose into the feedramp and one round of Golden Saber failed to eject.
The round below the jammed case is a live round that obviously failed to chamber and is floating around in there.
As far as I'm concerned I'm not going to be carrying this gun. Whether it's an issue with the gun itself or it's just a bad fit for me I don't know (While I don't find it unpleasant to shoot, I don't shoot it that well and find I have difficulty with it sliding around in my hand, so perhaps a bad grip is contributing to the problems.)
Lately I've been carrying a VP9....which has given me no issues but is also kind of the opposite direction I wanted to go in terms of CCW as it's even bigger than my G23 and 19 however getting a good holster for it has made s world of difference so perhaps that's the route I should take with my Glocks as well.
To be honest, it looks lime a limp wrist, which is easy to do with the shield. My gf had one when she started with hers. I told her to squeeze the crap out of the gun and no problems since.
What bullet weight consistently functions better? 115, 124 or 147?
What bullet weight consistently functions better? 115, 124 or 147?
The TAP was 124gr and the Golden Saber was 147gr.
Bullet weight didn't appear to be the factor in functioning. In general, aside from the WinClean, which was a disaster, the gun functioned well with both 115 and 124gr ball, which was the majority of what I put through it, and then choked with two different weights and brands of defensive ammo.
I'm not ruling out shooter error where something about the ergos of this gun or the way it handles during firing results in my limpwristing it and inducing malfunctions, but I've never had that issue with any other handgun and if it is a persistent issue for me with the Shield for some reason I'm thinking I might just be better served with a different gun.
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