View Full Version : U.S. Army recruiting says by 2020 they will be unable to meet goals due to obesity
Eurodriver
04-22-15, 12:56
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3050620/Obesity-epidemic-national-security-issue-says-general-warns-HALF-young-Americans-fat-serve-2020.html
'We think by 2020 it could be as high as 50 percent, which mean only 2 in 10 would qualify to join the Army. It's a sad testament to who we are as a society right now.'
Clearly the Army needs to justify this 20% standard, as it's discriminatory to those of us who don't eat at a public school cafeteria three times a day.
Well they can stop telling me I'm to old for starters.. I'm still in my twenties dammit.
Eurodriver
04-22-15, 14:44
Well they can stop telling me I'm to old for starters.. I'm still in my twenties dammit.
WHAT. I saw specialists in Iraq who were damn near 40.
Well they can stop telling me I'm to old for starters.. I'm still in my twenties dammit.
What?
Send me a PM and let me know what recruiting station you've been talking to.
wildcard600
04-22-15, 15:25
Guess they will have to lower thier standards more.
That is sad but it doesn't surprise me. In the fields of LE applicants the biggest single cut made is the physical agility test.
BrigandTwoFour
04-22-15, 17:29
Guess they will have to lower thier standards more.
This.
Unless someone starts emphasizing a JFK style focus on fitness starting at an early age, it isn't going to get fixed. Our culture has entirely abandoned the idea of forcing physical activity.
Eurodriver
04-22-15, 17:45
That is sad but it doesn't surprise me. In the fields of LE applicants the biggest single cut made is the physical agility test.
What's interesting to me about LE is that all of my buddies who have gone that route after the military all say the academy is pretty rigorous with PT. Talking 3 days a week of 3+ mile runs, calisthenics, etc. That's some USMC type stuff.
However, easily 2/3 of LE in that same department are clinically obese? Alaskapopo even defended them years ago saying he'd rather have some big fat guy in a fight with some guy than a stick figure marathon runner as the vast majority of LE encounters are beat downs and you've always got your car if you need to run somewhere far anyway. While that makes sense, why the need for such haze-fest PT sessions in the academy then?
On to the point - where's the disconnect? Is the PT test a "Pass it once and you're good for life" thing?
What's interesting to me about LE is that all of my buddies who have gone that route after the military all say the academy is pretty rigorous with PT. Talking 3 days a week of 3+ mile runs, calisthenics, etc. That's some USMC type stuff.
However, easily 2/3 of LE in that same department are clinically obese? Alaskapopo even defended them years ago saying he'd rather have some big fat guy in a fight with some guy than a stick figure marathon runner as the vast majority of LE encounters are beat downs and you've always got your car if you need to run somewhere far anyway. While that makes sense, why the need for such haze-fest PT sessions in the academy then?
On to the point - where's the disconnect? Is the PT test a "Pass it once and you're good for life" thing?
Depending on the area and PD, yup. In a major metro east coast PD they attempted to add a required yearly PT test, and even planned to grand father people who where hired before a specific date, and the union prevented it. So after they are hired, zero PT tests expected of them. And, they reduced the shooting qual (which was as minimum standards as it was) to be even less often than it was, but that's another topic...
What's interesting to me about LE is that all of my buddies who have gone that route after the military all say the academy is pretty rigorous with PT. Talking 3 days a week of 3+ mile runs, calisthenics, etc. That's some USMC type stuff.
If 3+ miles, 3 days a week is considered "rigorous", obesity will reign.
Eurodriver
04-22-15, 19:43
If 3+ miles, 3 days a week is considered "rigorous", obesity will reign.
What the **** does this have to do with anything? I didn't even list everything done and merely gave a brief example.
What would you consider rigorous, Zeus?
Don't worry. They'll make up for it by dropping standards or offering up more incentives for foreigners to serve.
If Coyotes Were as Big as Minivans
By
Leap, Edwin MD
...My friend Frank, emergency department nurse, former clown, former prison nurse, sage of sages, said quite matter of factly, “If coyotes were as big as minivans, we wouldn't have problems like that.”Let it sink in for a minute. This is wisdom of the highest order. While at first it might seem like something Jim Morrison said while sitting around the campfire hitting the Peyote, this actually makes sense. For the concrete or politically correct, let me explain. Otherwise healthy young men wouldn't sit around acting mortally wounded and praying for disability if coyotes were as big as minivans. They would have to stay alert, keep moving, stay in shape. The implications are staggering...
http://journals.lww.com/em-news/Fulltext/2006/02000/If_Coyotes_Were_as_Big_as_Minivans.8.aspx
What's interesting to me about LE is that all of my buddies who have gone that route after the military all say the academy is pretty rigorous with PT. Talking 3 days a week of 3+ mile runs, calisthenics, etc. That's some USMC type stuff.
However, easily 2/3 of LE in that same department are clinically obese? Alaskapopo even defended them years ago saying he'd rather have some big fat guy in a fight with some guy than a stick figure marathon runner as the vast majority of LE encounters are beat downs and you've always got your car if you need to run somewhere far anyway. While that makes sense, why the need for such haze-fest PT sessions in the academy then?
On to the point - where's the disconnect? Is the PT test a "Pass it once and you're good for life" thing?
I can provide some input on a couple of examples on the federal side. We had PT every day in our academy. It was a mix of runs of all kinds, calisthenics, weight room, and obstacle course. However, once you make it and become an agent, there is no longer a PT or fitness requirement. The nature of my particular job tends to keep agents in decent shape if you factor your own discipline on diet (hard to eat healthy on the job) and strength training. However we have many obese agents for reasons I will not get into.
From working with the USMS, I have been told their academy is pretty hard with PT, and they do have a quarterly fit test, but passing it is not a requirement to maintain duty status. You only need to perform and they just expect you to show improvement over your previous results (if they were shitty). Their fit test does factor in to things such as points towards their personal record, general reputation, etc.
In addition, from applying for the job, I know the F B I fitness requirements are also pretty tough, not necessarily in actions you must do, but the strict nature of it. I'm sure having a close relationship with the USMC and their academy being held at Quantico has something to do with that.
Averageman
04-22-15, 22:20
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3050620/Obesity-epidemic-national-security-issue-says-general-warns-HALF-young-Americans-fat-serve-2020.html
I was a recruiter in LA right after Desert Storm. If the 2 out of 10 number is the prediction purely for obesity,then someone needs to take a closer look at what the public schools are kicking out and calling it an education. The inner city kids for the most part had a difficult time with the ASVAB.
Fat, dumb and happy is gonna kill us.
Good, maybe by then they will bring back prior service that are already trained and proficient in their jobs and remained fit instead of shunning us out for the younger fat bastards that can't meet the standards.
Still words of wisdom after all these years:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkoPq5AOCOA
What's interesting to me about LE is that all of my buddies who have gone that route after the military all say the academy is pretty rigorous with PT. Talking 3 days a week of 3+ mile runs, calisthenics, etc. That's some USMC type stuff.
However, easily 2/3 of LE in that same department are clinically obese? Alaskapopo even defended them years ago saying he'd rather have some big fat guy in a fight with some guy than a stick figure marathon runner as the vast majority of LE encounters are beat downs and you've always got your car if you need to run somewhere far anyway. While that makes sense, why the need for such haze-fest PT sessions in the academy then?
On to the point - where's the disconnect? Is the PT test a "Pass it once and you're good for life" thing?
On the PT and law enforcement thing, Academies vary, when I started at our Academy I was the token former Marine Tactical Officer - we had PT 5 days a week for an hour each day, initially all I knew was the Marine Corps way and that is what we did. Thank goodness I attended the Cooper Aerobic institute and began to morph the program into something which tried to instill lifetime fitness habits - you accomplish more with the mainstream person if you develop a moderate program, which doesn't kick their ass, but lets them see progress and develop a habit.
When agencies wanted to add additional subjects to the curriculum and we weren't able to get additional hours (we are a state Academy - we can only require the mandated hours) the first thing that went was PT.
I was running the program during this stage and I willingly traded the PT hours during the training day for more hours on the range, on EVOC and Vehicle Stops. It was simply a matter of priorities and making do the best you can. I am no longer involved with our program, falling off a roof will do that for you, LOL, but the guys who are try to make do the best they can.
To address your final statement, to be safe from litigation, a required physical standard has to be shown to be job related. So if you have a 1.5 mile run, you have to show it's relationship to the law enforcement job. Likewise number of pushups, sit ups, bench press, etc. can be attacked on job relatedness. This is why many folks have gone to obstacle courses, shuttle runs, dummy drags, and for some Troopers, getting a tire out of the trunk.
Then you get the risk management folks involved - I know a couple of officers and deputies who are drawing disabilities for injuries sustained while running mandated obstacle courses, which are no longer mandated.
And then you get the union/FOP involvement - if the union/FBI president is a rotund, cigar smoking alky, probably the union/FOP isn't going to be bargaining hard for time off call during the duty for PT, and fitness incentives.
Moose-Knuckle
04-23-15, 03:07
Well somebody had too . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQZnEPRYyUU
My Academy had some pretty rigorous PT. I came out of there in damn good shape. My department doesnt require PT after the Academy but does have nice incentives to keep up on your PT.
One problem is that police work in general can make you fat really fast. Most police work isnt the cool high speed stuff on TV. Its a lot of driving in a car, talking to people, and doing paperwork. Plus busy days mixed with weird hours makes getting good/healthy food not easy. A lot of guys pack their lunches but access to a microwave is not always an option. If you leave it in a fridge at work it might be hours past your lunch time before you get back to it.
I go to the gym 3 to 4 days a week. However I do exclusively weight lifting. I have found superior strength to be more of an asset in this work than cardiovascular endurance. The longest foot chase I have been in was probably about a third of a mile. Now that does kind of sound like Im making excuses for why I dont run much. And in a way I guess it is.... but truthfully I just hate running.
Obesity is very close related to food choices, specifically sugar, and has little to do with exercise from what I've read. They've taken rats who are intravenously hooked up to a cocaine drip, and given them the option of cocaine or sugar, the vast majority chose sugar over blow. Sugar is highly addictive and has some devastating consequences.
My academy had virtually zero PT. My training officer and a few of my classmates would work out together after class in the weight room and cardio. We just had to pass the PT test to get in. I am in the gym (weights and minimal cardio) 4-5 days a week because I work nights and that is when the creepy people come out to play. I understand that there are guys in jail and prison who are bigger, faster and stronger than me.
Speaking in vast generalities we have seen a cultural shift with my generation (I'm 29) and the one before mine where it became more fun to stay inside and play video games instead of going outside and running around. It is also impacting those younger than me. They eat like crap, not saying I eat well, and sit around most of the day. I have friends who complain about being overweight but then go back to eating garbage and sitting around with their Playstations and Xboxes. Staying fit involves physical labor and so many younger people avoid that like I avoid Hi-Points. I blame the parents of today's youth for coddling them in a risk averse life style where breaking a sweat is bad because you could be doing something that gets you hurt.
One of the first things to get cut in schools is PE. Even where PE still exists it has changed to "lifetime sports" that you can do throughout your years as opposed to high intensity competitive sports and exercise that can keep kids in shape. PE also leads to hurt feelings with competition and we can't have that in schools. :mad:
Sorry for the rant, I just got home from a 12 hour shift and this topic touches close to home for me.
I know since fitness has become a priority in my life, I see things I never noticed before.
Things line, how many obese people the are pretty much every where. How most stores are 85% junk food. Gas stations are 99% junk food.
Problem is we start them young with shitty habits. My kids like corn dogs, chicken nuggets, and Mac and effing simulated cheese..... All the time. See the problem?
You can cook similar, much healthier versions of all of those things. But it does take time and effort. There lies the problem.
American average diet is super high bad types of carb, high fat, high sugar, and low in good protein and vegetables. And eating out to much where it's to easy to get extra fries with your double burger.
My kids like vinegar balsamic vinegar on their veggies. Make it taste good and they'll it.
And don't just sit on your ass all the time. Your doomed if you do.
I think the problem is in the high schools. They don't cook most of the food. It's just reheated food service products. Those are some of the most impressionable years. P.E. Not required and eating pizza and snack bar food five days a week.....what could go wrong?
Fat and out of shape is a choice. I say this as a former out of shape fat ass.
On the PT and law enforcement thing, Academies vary, when I started at our Academy I was the token former Marine Tactical Officer - we had PT 5 days a week for an hour each day, initially all I knew was the Marine Corps way and that is what we did. Thank goodness I attended the Cooper Aerobic institute and began to morph the program into something which tried to instill lifetime fitness habits - you accomplish more with the mainstream person if you develop a moderate program, which doesn't kick their ass, but lets them see progress and develop a habit.
When agencies wanted to add additional subjects to the curriculum and we weren't able to get additional hours (we are a state Academy - we can only require the mandated hours) the first thing that went was PT.
I was running the program during this stage and I willingly traded the PT hours during the training day for more hours on the range, on EVOC and Vehicle Stops. It was simply a matter of priorities and making do the best you can. I am no longer involved with our program, falling off a roof will do that for you, LOL, but the guys who are try to make do the best they can.
To address your final statement, to be safe from litigation, a required physical standard has to be shown to be job related. So if you have a 1.5 mile run, you have to show it's relationship to the law enforcement job. Likewise number of pushups, sit ups, bench press, etc. can be attacked on job relatedness. This is why many folks have gone to obstacle courses, shuttle runs, dummy drags, and for some Troopers, getting a tire out of the trunk.
Then you get the risk management folks involved - I know a couple of officers and deputies who are drawing disabilities for injuries sustained while running mandated obstacle courses, which are no longer mandated.
And then you get the union/FOP involvement - if the union/FBI president is a rotund, cigar smoking alky, probably the union/FOP isn't going to be bargaining hard for time off call during the duty for PT, and fitness incentives.
Ok, the getting the tire out of the trunk made chuckle. Applause to you good sir.
And for those that asked a PM will be forthcoming.
My Academy had some pretty rigorous PT. I came out of there in damn good shape. My department doesnt require PT after the Academy but does have nice incentives to keep up on your PT.
One problem is that police work in general can make you fat really fast. Most police work isnt the cool high speed stuff on TV. Its a lot of driving in a car, talking to people, and doing paperwork. Plus busy days mixed with weird hours makes getting good/healthy food not easy. A lot of guys pack their lunches but access to a microwave is not always an option. If you leave it in a fridge at work it might be hours past your lunch time before you get back to it.
I go to the gym 3 to 4 days a week. However I do exclusively weight lifting. I have found superior strength to be more of an asset in this work than cardiovascular endurance. The longest foot chase I have been in was probably about a third of a mile. Now that does kind of sound like Im making excuses for why I dont run much. And in a way I guess it is.... but truthfully I just hate running.
Made meal prep and timing an actual reality for me fwiw.
http://www.roguefitness.com/6-pack-voyager-backpack?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=PaidSearch&utm_campaign=Sales&utm_term={Keyword}
Pffft, how does PT help with flying a drone from an air conditioned trailer?
ColtSeavers
04-23-15, 18:16
Something that has always bothered me is the instances where the physical requirements for the Army do not make sense. I personally knew two outstanding Sergeants that had their careers cut short because even though they passed the PT test with over 200 points each (one got a 260, the other a 220 something), they were not allowed to re-up because they could not meet the height-to-weight requirement. It floors me to think that either a big Samoan or an of Eastern European descent 'husky' individual that could pass the pt test easily, and probably bench press a horse were seen as unfit for continued service where-as a 180 lb 'soaking wet' 18 yr old that's fresh outta High School/Basic/AIT that can pass both the PT test and height-to-weight requirement, but would fold like a cheap suit with a good gut check shot, were good to go.
I understand both sides of the argument/problem, but there is room to improve the correct way, which in my opinion, is to allow people that pass the PT test with over 200 points (180 being the minimum, 60 points minimum per task) to not have to be held to the height-to-weight requirement.
...I understand both sides of the argument/problem, but there is room to improve the correct way, which in my opinion, is to allow people that pass the PT test with over 200 points (180 being the minimum, 60 points minimum per task) to not have to be held to the height-to-weight requirement.
I hear what you're saying, but...
The Army never has been and never will be "fair" from the perspective of the individual. We all know great people who were tossed for BS reasons, just as young folks who would have been great soldiers have been kept out. It does what it needs to do to keep the big green machine running.
Anecdotal evidence and small samples are pointless. The Army needs to go with the 85% solution for reasons of practicality. Losing a great SSG sucks from the small unit perspective, but in the big scheme of things it isn't even a tiny drop in a very large bucket.
Over 90% of the guys on the overweight program are indeed fat. Attempting to come up with a secondary standard for the few who are both fit and chunky doesn't make sense from a time/manpower perspective.
Back to the OP: USAREC has been beating this drum for years; the message just gets re-broadcast periodically.
Pffft, how does PT help with flying a drone from an air conditioned trailer?
Self discipline.
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