View Full Version : Building a House / Developing Rural Property / Country Livin'
Outlander Systems
05-02-15, 12:22
So, any of you fellas built a house lately?
Here's my sitch:
Currently living in a typical urban/suburban cesspool. I grew up in the sticks of Tennessee, so, needless to say, my current living arrangements ain't working out. I'm on about a 1/9th of an acre, I can spit and hit the neighbor's house, I ****ing abhor my HOA, my "neighbors" wouldn't piss on me to put out the flames, and there's just too much damned asphalt. Growing up, when I was about 11-ish, my dad gave me a Savage 22/20ga, over and under, and I had a ratty old dirtbike. Pops gave me some shells, a slap on the ass, and said, "go have fun". So there is a culture clash, to say the least. I've lived in urban, studio apartments when I was a 20-something, and always thought dealing with the "city life" would be a temporary thing.
Long n' short of it, the Mrs. and I cashed out our 401ks, and bought some rural acreage.
So far, I have a set of architectural drawings for the house we want, along with accessory structures, I did a boundary survey back before I bought the place, I have a topographic map/engineering site development plan, Level III Soil Study/Percolation Test, etc. Obtaining permitting isn't a problem. I'm a Land Surveyor, and work with a bunch of Civil Engineers.
Needless to say, I've gotten to the point of full-blown kid-at-Christmas syndrome, where getting my ass out to our property can't happen soon enough.
So for anyone here, that's developed property recently:
What pitfalls/perils/challenges did you run into?
The property is rural, so I have the challenges of:
Grading
Well-Water only
Septic-only
Need to coordinate with the power company to run utility service to the site
I'm pretty much accepting the fact that I can throw my router in the garbage, because cable is not an option. I'm convinced internet is going to be a smartphone only-endeavor, but I still get good 4G signal out there. We don't have TV in our house now, so I'm not so concerned about that. Anyone here have Sattellite Internet? Dial-up?
During the development process, did anyone run into some unpleasant surprises? So far, the one that has my butthole in a pucker is the cost of well-drilling. At $10-$12 per LF, I shudder at what could end up being a costly dry-well.
My current plan of attack is to get the well installed before considering any other development. If I can't hit an acceptable rate, I may end up being in deep dog dung. I've got a cheap cistern design that my company used in a "green" development, but that was planned for general yard usage and not for drinking.
The biggest problem, other than throwing cash at a well, I have, is bridging the gap between leaving my house and moving into the new one. I could sell mine and rent, I suppose. It's my understanding that after the residential bubble popped, banks aren't too friendly in terms of giving out bridge-loans anymore. I've thought about slapping a trailer out there, while the building is going on, but that's right up there with renting, in terms of throwing money in the toilet.
If it was just me, I'd live out there in a tent, and take showers at the gym. Women, for some reason, don't seem to like that plan so much...
I'm curious to see how some of y'all pulled this off. I knew that just finding the land, after several years of looking, and looking, and more looking, was only the first hurdle. While it was definitely a huge milestone for us, and our weekends are finally freed up, there is still a long road ahead of us. We looked at a LOT of places, and nothing hit us as "the place" until we found our property. A lot of weird, synchronistic events led up to us getting the place that would almost push a rational person to superstition. Despite sounding fruity, it seemed meant to be.
Anyway, hit me with some advice.
A good water well is vital, so get your water well going first, before making too many other arrangements. If you can convince your wife to live in a camper while the house is being built, you could recoup the cost after the house is built. You will just have to check with satellite internet providers in the area to check availability. It will probably be a little more expensive than you are used to, and a little bit slower.
Outlander Systems
05-02-15, 13:07
A good water well is vital, so get your water well going first, before making too many other arrangements. If you can convince your wife to live in a camper while the house is being built, you could recoup the cost after the house is built. You will just have to check with satellite internet providers in the area to check availability. It will probably be a little more expensive than you are used to, and a little bit slower.
Thanks, man.
I'm not *terribly* worried about the prospects of water. I've spoken to the neighboring property owners, and:
One hit at 220
One hit at 60
One hit at 450
But, the good news is that they all hit. The trickiest part for me, as the property is rolling, is getting the drill rig to my well location without doing a lot of unnecessary clearing/grading.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=33083&d=1430590028
Little slice of quiet.
Be prepared for setbacks along the way; something unexpected always pops up.
If you have anger issues, seek anger management classes before you begin because contractors WILL piss you off.
If you're near any water or wetlands, double check any related ordinances before you begin. Nothing sucks more when you're planning that nice big deck overlooking the river and they tell you that it's a no-go.
You can never have too many outlets.
If you have a basement planned, don't drywall the ceiling.
No matter how much planning you do & no matter much you stare at those drawings, you're gonna wish you did something different.
Outlander Systems
05-02-15, 13:47
Be prepared for setbacks along the way; something unexpected always pops up.
If you have anger issues, seek anger management classes before you begin because contractors WILL piss you off.
If you're near any water or wetlands, double check any related ordinances before you begin. Nothing sucks more when you're planning that nice big deck overlooking the river and they tell you that it's a no-go.
You can never have too many outlets.
If you have a basement planned, don't drywall the ceiling.
No matter how much planning you do & no matter much you stare at those drawings, you're gonna wish you did something different.
I'm really, REALLY wanting to design a pistol range, and work it in during construction. But, people in hell want water, so I'm trying my damnedest to be realistic.
Contractors have been pissing me off with my current home. There have been some things we have been trying to get estimates on, prior to selling, and if I had a dollar for every time I said, "I guess these mother****ers don't want to make any money." Trying to get someone out to give an estimate is like trying to get Hillary and Obama to embrace Liberty.
You're right about dealing with ordinances. Sometimes the County planning/zoning are as bad, or worse, than HOAs. I was doing residential design work for about a year, and the absolute insanity of some of the zoning folks is stunning. I had a city planner state that, "A garage is unnecessary." And proceed to fly into a rage over people wanting to own cars. I shit ye not.
This is my plan as well and I'm glad to see someone else doing it. I'm very interested to see how it turns out. I have many of the same wishes, buy a plot of land and build my own house. I've designed enough buildings to know what I want and have been slowly working on the designs for my wife and I. Can't wait to get out of this crap state, move to a free one and build our own house.
I've noticed that sub contractors for residential projects seem to be super flakey. We have a couple of home additions that we designed sitting there waiting for bids for months. We were tasked by the homeowners to be the GC and are having a real hard time getting bids. Some people that we use for commercial work got back to us right away, some that we cold called were either not interested, to busy or just blew us off. It's really annoying. Never have this much trouble with commercial work.
Are you acting as the GC or are you hiring one?
You said you have drawings in hand, will the Architect provide CA services in case the GC/you have RFI's during construction? Will he/she provide you with answers in case you run into issues during plan review?
Was the home designed for the site or is it a generic set of plans for a home you like? Placing a home on a site is important. Proximity to locations where utilities will be run is key to ensure lowered costs. For you, only electrical service will need to be coordinated with but if you can resource the length of the feeder it will help keep costs lower. Also positioning the home efficiently with respect to north is important for good design. In the city you don't have a choice, the front of the lot is the front of the lot, but when you are rural and have a lot of room, you can rotate the home to take advantage of winter sun and cool north light.
Not sure where your land is, but if you are going to have a well, might as well place your home as close as you can to it. My not resource the pipe run if you can.
Also, locate it where you have the best perk-tests so that your septic will work effectively and you won't need to replace soil with a more permiable one for the leaching field.
Other than that, expect construction to take at least 10% longer and cost at least 10% more. It always seems too.
Good luck, I'm super interested in how it work out for you. I hope to be in the same process in 5 to 7 years.
FlyingHunter
05-02-15, 18:48
Do you mind sharing how much land we're talking about...2, 20, 200 acres etc...
I've done what your on track to do and will be happy to share my experiences. Spend the money on the well and then spend some more to have a manual back up pump interfaced with the installation as no power = no water. Next bury the powerlines/phonelines etc...If the distance from road frontage to the house is significant its worth it to avoid the tree and limb damage exposed traditional lines would have. Next - if your acreage is considerable. Buy a tractor and pay a lot of attention to the grading/construction design of the main road/driveway. Buy quality, expensive but worth it. I went John Deere for the service and parts availability. Consider the match system to avoid a lumbar disc problem with attaching implements. Next -go above and beyond normal efforts to make nice with neighboring land owners.
We have no Internet on our street despite it being all around us. Our Verizon 4g router works pretty well if you can stomach the cost.
My last career was working as a health inspector. Septic systems were under our umbrella, although I didn't inspect them. In Texas the state sets minimum requirements for installing and maintaining them. Your state may have zero or stringent requirements, which are good to know before hiring a contractor. I have a friend in the business and can get insider information for you to avoid rip offs.
Another department at work performed inspections relating to electrical, plumbing, and construction codes. I learned that some sub contractors would not work in the city limits because of higher inspection standards. In the county there were zero standards other than septic systems. I would think hard and fast before hiring a crew that could not or would not build to minimum standards. One reason is that they may have no standards at all.
I learned that lending agencies often know who the crooks and incompetents are in the construction industry. Another source for this type of information is building supply companies. Also insurance agents selling home owner insurance most definitely are aware of the good and the bad.
You must be present while the work is being done. Be aware that thieves will haul off delivered and stacked supplies. After electrical wiring has been installed, thieves will steal it immediately for the copper. The solution is having the power turned on as soon as possible.
You must be present while the work is being done. Be aware that thieves will haul off delivered and stacked supplies. After electrical wiring has been installed, thieves will steal it immediately for the copper. The solution is having the power turned on as soon as possible.
Down here they steal the copper when the power is on. I've probably seen everything. They actually take the time to hit streetlights at night.
SilverBullet432
05-02-15, 21:52
Are you saying it costs 10-12 per foot to drill a water well? Around here its more like $120 per foot. IMO . Your first thing should be drill for water, if you strike oil, then hotdog!! :jester: also, i would say add a. Softner/filtration system or the first things to go will be your fridge and dishwasher. Then your plumbing
Travelingchild
05-03-15, 10:28
....Contractors have been pissing me off with my current home......
Find another one,, Seriously I've been in the industry for around 15 years and I'm always amazed at people who whine and bitch about their contractors and subs..
It's simple.. Fire the SOB if they piss you off or you feel they're Ripping you off.
I've been everything from a laborer, framer, finish carpenter, supervisor to my current position in problem solving & logistics.
Everything takes longer than expected period..
Subs give unrealistic time frames... It'll be done in "123 weeks" when in reality it takes "12345 weeks"
It's better to give a time frame "12345 weeks" and finish in "123 weeks"
Material markups are anywhere from 15% to 30% You can save money buy purchasing it yourself on certain items find contractors willing to work with you.
Someone asks for cash advance on project labor run.. away most likely not financially solvent..
When paying Contractor or subs get release of lien for work/supplies paid.. Hows the relationship between General and Sub's listen to the worksite bullshit..
If the General is driving a freaking new truck and the subs are complaining about getting paid make the the check out to both, yes it can be done..
Hell find out where the supplies are being bought and make sure their accts. are in good standing , I'd make the check out to the sub and their supplier so no lien can come back at you.
"
At the End of Each Day REMEMBER
You are the Paying Customer YOU get what YOU want or EVERYONE Can GET OFF YOUR PROJECT!!
If you have any electrical questions feel free to ask. I started out doing commercial and now do a lot of basements, additions, and custom million dollar homes.
Find another one,, Seriously I've been in the industry for around 15 years and I'm always amazed at people who whine and bitch about their contractors and subs..
It's simple.. Fire the SOB if they piss you off or you feel they're Ripping you off.
I've been everything from a laborer, framer, finish carpenter, supervisor to my current position in problem solving & logistics.
Everything takes longer than expected period..
Subs give unrealistic time frames... It'll be done in "123 weeks" when in reality it takes "12345 weeks"
It's better to give a time frame "12345 weeks" and finish in "123 weeks"
Material markups are anywhere from 15% to 30% You can save money buy purchasing it yourself on certain items find contractors willing to work with you.
Someone asks for cash advance on project labor run.. away most likely not financially solvent..
When paying Contractor or subs get release of lien for work/supplies paid.. Hows the relationship between General and Sub's listen to the worksite bullshit..
If the General is driving a freaking new truck and the subs are complaining about getting paid make the the check out to both, yes it can be done..
Hell find out where the supplies are being bought and make sure their accts. are in good standing , I'd make the check out to the sub and their supplier so no lien can come back at you.
"
At the End of Each Day REMEMBER
You are the Paying Customer YOU get what YOU want or EVERYONE Can GET OFF YOUR PROJECT!!
Yes, 1000 times. Also, do not pay for labor until the job is 100% complete. I paid a painter once before he came back to finish the touch-up work on a remodel, and I never saw him there again. I got tired of him not answering, so I had to do it myself.
It is very important to get to know your neighbors. They could be the best ever or the worst, but you have got to find out so you know what you should expect. Try to be civil with them should a dispute arise, unless you want a feud. If they are good people, they can help can an eye on things while you are away. If they are meth cooks, you may want to reconsider your location.
Piggy-backing on Travelingchild's post I would say spend the money on an AIA 101-2007 Owner Contractor Agreement. This is a contract that has stood up in court countless times and will give you the legal means to fire the contractor should he not fulfill his duties. Also if creates a schedule of values and sets standards for payment. The contractor will issue payment request forms once a month. He has to give you a pencil copy a week before the payment is to be signed. You will review it to make sure that the payment he wants is justified and that the materials and labor has been incorporated into the work. This is usually taken care of by the Architect. He/she signs off on you and gives it to you to issue payment. This way you know that you are not paying for work that has not been done. You will also retain 10% of each payment so that at the end of the work and you have a certificate of substantial completion you are still holding a 10% retainage. Once you have a release of leans and the contractor has completed the punch list, you will release the retainage.
Travelingchild
05-03-15, 17:48
... and custom million dollar homes.
Yup custom homes are a blast....
Hows this for a mechanical room 9 foot high ceilings took me two weeks scribed to the floor..
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd214/fallsafe/IMG_20150317_134114712.jpg (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/fallsafe/media/IMG_20150317_134114712.jpg.html)http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd214/fallsafe/IMG_20150317_134118495_HDR.jpg (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/fallsafe/media/IMG_20150317_134118495_HDR.jpg.html)
Maybe some camo on the satellite dish.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd214/fallsafe/IMG_20150317_134554615.jpg (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/fallsafe/media/IMG_20150317_134554615.jpg.html);)
Piggy-backing on Travelingchild's post I would say spend the money on an AIA 101-2007 Owner Contractor Agreement. This is a contract that has stood up in court countless times and will give you the legal means to fire the contractor should he not fulfill his duties. Also if creates a schedule of values and sets standards for payment. The contractor will issue payment request forms once a month. He has to give you a pencil copy a week before the payment is to be signed. You will review it to make sure that the payment he wants is justified and that the materials and labor has been incorporated into the work. This is usually taken care of by the Architect. He/she signs off on you and gives it to you to issue payment. This way you know that you are not paying for work that has not been done. You will also retain 10% of each payment so that at the end of the work and you have a certificate of substantial completion you are still holding a 10% retainage. Once you have a release of leans and the contractor has completed the punch list, you will release the retainage.
Holy balls that is nice.
Good info here. I'm thinking of doing something like this in the next 5yrs, but not quite that remote location. Just outside the city and more out towards the country, while still having access to utilities.
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