View Full Version : Would you undergo intense corrective surgery if you didn't have to?
Eurodriver
05-05-15, 00:15
My options are an excruciating surgery followed by months of immobility, physical therapy, and "a chance of improvement", or a slow but consistent deterioration of my current state. Taking the surgery is an almost guarantee that I will never be able to do any sort of high speed work in the future (My profession is excellent but this would still be devastating) and it has a very slight (but very real) possibility of making the situation worse.
The doctor put the ball in my court. He gave me all of the information (Both negative and positive) and while he does this surgery frequently and feels doing it at a younger age will be easier on my body than if I wait, he was really adamant that I understand the risks and recovery period should I choose to move forward.
What would you do?
What would you do?
Seek a second opinion.
Brutally honest. That would be my first course of action. Not saying that your doc doesn't know his stuff, but when looking at something like this.... Second opinion can't hurt.
Eurodriver
05-05-15, 00:26
I wrote a longer post that was erased by me accidentally closing the window, and I forgot a few things. Suffice to say, this is a second opinion and they both came to the exact same conclusion.
SilverBullet432
05-05-15, 00:37
Take a third opinion. Wife has a family friend who was given diabetes medicine by 2 diff. Doctors, she looks like crap now. Was fine before any meds...
Eurodriver
05-05-15, 00:49
I am tracking on the "opinions", but for the sake of argument let's just pretend they got this one right.
It's not like I haven't done any research in the last decade or had podiatrists (and now 2 ortho surgeons) from Hawaii to Florida all in agreement.
I'd do it. Either the chance of better living later down the road or no chance at all.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-05-15, 01:40
Yes.
My knee's, post Marine Corps, are a hot mess. Constant tendinitis throughout me legs. I would let a back alley surgeon cut me up for a chance to stop the pain.
Ok, just read the replies. I should do that more before I post.
First I can't imagine not being able to walk around the block without pain. It's hard for me to accept I can't spar like I did 10 years ago.
Sounds like Option A "do nothing" is a guarantee of continued worsening of the situation until it becomes intolerable and renders you immobile from pain.
Option B sounds like "we might be able to do something extreme that will provide manageable results."
You are also likely to recover from B better now than in 10 years. You also don't know what your coverage may be in 10 more years. Quite possible your coverage will tell you, you knew about it back then and should have done something - not our problem anymore.
I guess my advice is, if you are going to suck up pain and recovery, do it now rather than later.
Do it. If you dont, you will always wonder if it would have made it better. If you try it and it doesn't work, you can at least say you didn't try.
A couple of years ago I elected to have my hip replaced at a relatively young age (44) after being bone on bone for years and suffering from constant pain. It affected my life at home and limited my ability at work.
Now while the particular device I had implanted allows me a higher level of activity than some, I am still limited in some activities. I have learned to work around those limits and am pretty active. The value of being free from chronic pain is worth it. You do not realize how much it impacts you and those around you until you are free of it.
Ultimately you must decide for yourself when you have had enough. Bear in mind your problem will only worsen with time. Your procedure sounds tougher with a lesser chance of total relief than what I went through. I certainly wish you luck with whatever you decide.
davidjinks
05-05-15, 05:20
Deleted
I am tracking on the "opinions", but for the sake of argument let's just pretend they got this one right.
It's not like I haven't done any research in the last decade or had podiatrists (and now 2 ortho surgeons) from Hawaii to Florida all in agreement.
If the condition is getting worse with time, then get the surgery while you are young.
If I found the right guy, I'd have the surgery. No question. I know first hand that unaddressed orthopedic injuries will bite you in the ass hard when you get older. And, I know that getting older is not as far away as you think.
Check credentials of the orthopod. You want him/her to have completed a post-graduate Fellowship in Foot and Ankle surgery. After finishing their Orthopedics residency, those doctors have spent a year doing nothing but foot and ankle surgery, learning from the very best people in the field. There are only 43 such Fellowships in the U.S. Those guys are the elite in that rather narrow supspecialty. Their practices after finishing are largely foot and ankle. The more you do, the better you are.
Additionally, if you can swing it, get it checked at the University of Utah. Charles Saltzman teaches there. In the international world of Foot and Ankle surgery, he is the Prince of Darkness. Undisputed guru.
.
Eurodriver
05-05-15, 06:40
Funny you should say that HMAC, I first learned of this issue from a guy who was just ending his fellowship.
If constant pain and it will get worse with age. Fix it. I have problems from sports and work and wish there were techniques at my age that would be acceptable (fused discs and reworked shoulder) If I could get a fix for my back I would do it in a heart beat. My shoulder can be fixed its just 3 to 4 months off work and I don't have that kind of time built up yet in my sick time. My spouse just had surgery to fix a shoulder that was causing migranes and problems in her upper back and neck. It hurts and recovery is slow but not having those problems everyday to deal with make the solution worth the fix.
Eurodriver
05-05-15, 06:46
If the condition is getting worse with time, then get the surgery while you are young.
I'm surprised at the unanimous responses such as this.
Look, I have no clue the what to tell you. If I was going to have elective major surgery, I'd want the best surgeon I could have have ( within reason).
I've seen a total knee surgery done in 18 minutes. Total hips take a little longer. Fairly routine surgery for most any orthopedic. ( though, I'm sure the devices aren't tested for 40-60 years. ) This sounds a lot more substantial surgery. I'd would take things slow, get all the info, then make a decision. (You have done a lot, I can tell). It sounds like I would probably end up going the surgery route in your shoes, but I'd know enough to feel comfortable with the choice even if you don't have a great outcome.
Funny you should say that HMAC, I first learned of this issue from a guy who was just ending his fellowship.
Doc #2 I saw recently is a founding partner of the largest Orthopaedic office in Central FL and, as the director of a fellowship program, it was under he that Dr #1 fellowed. All foot and ankle.
I could PM you his name if you think you may know him, but I have no doubt as to the surgeons qualifications and expertise.
Nah, I don't travel in orthopedic circles, but fellowships are on my mind as a) I'm in the closing month of my current Advanced MIS Fellow and getting him into practice and b) I'm in Rochester MN at Mayo at the moment as a patient consulting with Mark Pagnano, the Prince of Darkness in knee reconstruction surgery.
Sounds like you've done your homework. Likely to be a good choice of surgeon.
I find myself getting angry and frustrated when loved ones ask me to do things that involve lots of walking (the mall, Disney world, festivals, etc) because if I go I will be hurting but I don't want them to know that I'm too weak to do it. Frustration sets in and they end up thinking I'm a psycho.
BDDT. This reaction is extremely common. It will not improve with time, I'm sorry to say.
Averageman
05-05-15, 07:56
I wouldn't think twice. From my personal experiance I can assure you it wont get better as you get older and it will only make your quality of life be less than it could and should be.
I honestly believe in a situation like this the VA should let you make your choice and just cut the Doc a check.
I had shoulder surgery last year. I too was in pain all of the time. I was told that the best I could expect was an 80% recovery but the pain would subside. It was to the point that I was having trouble sleeping from the pain.
I did it. One year later I am at about 90% function of what I was but no pain. I am sore and stiff some times but I am able to work that out.
Rehab hard. My wife started to work my arm less than 24 hours post op. I pushed my rehab as hard as I could. Do it early and do it hard. If you are not crying do more. I was told by my physical therapist that over 50% of the people that have the same surgery that I did are sitting at less then 60% mobility because they did not push hard.
Overall I am glad I did it and I am very glad that I pushed my rehab to the limit.
I had shoulder surgery last year. I too was in pain all of the time. I was told that the best I could expect was an 80% recovery but the pain would subside. It was to the point that I was having trouble sleeping from the pain.
I did it. One year later I am at about 90% function of what I was but no pain. I am sore and stiff some times but I am able to work that out.
Rehab hard. My wife started to work my arm less than 24 hours post op. I pushed my rehab as hard as I could. Do it early and do it hard. If you are not crying do more. I was told by my physical therapist that over 50% of the people that have the same surgery that I did are sitting at less then 60% mobility because they did not push hard.
Overall I am glad I did it and I am very glad that I pushed my rehab to the limit.
This. Wrecked my shoulder 6 yrs ago. Fix it. I have an uncle that can't raise one arm above his head now. Didn't fix it 15 years ago. Now it's pain and mobility issues for him.
Do it euro. Hit the therapy hard. Good physical therapist is a godsend.
You know the only guarantee is that it will keep hurting and get worse if you don't have the surgery. So get the surgery, and do it now while you are young, and your body heals faster. For the most part, our bodies are just not durable enough to handle what we put them through, and that doesn't have anything to with being weak.
EuroDriver - In 2007 I absolutely crushed my heel and ankle. I was treated by the ortho's at the 'premier' sports medicine clinic in our area. I didn't expect miracles, but after everything was said and done I waited through a year of constant pain before seeking a second opinion on it. Throughout that year the orthopedic who treated me had given me two cortisone injections and then essentially told me 'suck it up buttercup.' I went to a podiatrist who took one look at the MRI and said 'holy shit they screwed this up' - he quickly backtracked and said, 'well understandable with all your other injuries.' (I'd swan dived off a roof onto concrete)
I ended going out of town to another doc - he looked at it and told me I wouldn't be able to run cross country, I should be able to down hill ski, and that I should be able to jog on level surfaces. He also explained that I would no longer have any sideward flexion in my ankle and would have to be careful walking on uneven terrain lest I suffer rolled ankle sprains. I had just gone through a year of coming home after a day on the range or driving course, chugging a couple more naproxen and flopping in the recliner with my foot elevated, so I said let's do it. He was absolutely correct on all accounts. I have essentially no pain, I have sprained my ankle - both the radiologist and the doctor examining it commented on the 'nice work.' Doctor Heady changed my life back to normal.
Do it.
Do it man.
I had a back injury 10 years ago, went through HELL and back. Legs were going numb, nerve pain down my legs was like a truck was parked on them. Tried physical therapy, epideral shots, nothing helped. Spine surgery was NOT something I wanted to go through but now it's 10 years later and still kicking strong. Glad I had it done otherwise nerve damage would have put me in a wheel chair.
Good luck brother.
JBecker 72
05-05-15, 12:28
I'd probably want better odds than "maybe it will improve" before going under the knife for such an extreme surgery. But if I were in pain constantly and couldn't walk my dog I'd probably opt for the procedure.
If I found the right guy, I'd have the surgery. No question. I know first hand that unaddressed orthopedic injuries will bite you in the ass hard when you get older. And, I know that getting older is not as far away as you think.
Check credentials of the orthopod. You want him/her to have completed a post-graduate Fellowship in Foot and Ankle surgery. After finishing their Orthopedics residency, those doctors have spent a year doing nothing but foot and ankle surgery, learning from the very best people in the field. There are only 43 such Fellowships in the U.S. Those guys are the elite in that rather narrow supspecialty. Their practices after finishing are largely foot and ankle. The more you do, the better you are.
Additionally, if you can swing it, get it checked at the University of Utah. Charles Saltzman teaches there. In the international world of Foot and Ankle surgery, he is the Prince of Darkness. Undisputed guru.
.
Depending on the procedure, you may want to hold off for as long as you can to avoid having to do a repeat procedure down the road. A lot of factors must be considered, including the patient's current quality of life and overall health.
I'm surprised at the unanimous responses such as this.
It does suck not being able to walk pain free sometimes. The issue isn't that I cannot do things - it's that they hurt like crazy so I refuse to. I find myself getting angry and frustrated when loved ones ask me to do things that involve lots of walking (the mall, Disney world, festivals, etc) because if I go I will be hurting but I don't want them to know that I'm too weak to do it. Frustration sets in and they end up thinking I'm a psycho.
I'm very weird about telling people. I almost didn't post this, but didn't have a choice because not more than 2 or 3 people even know this issue exists and I had to ask someone
Holy shit dude, tell them what's going on before you irrevocably damage your relationships with them. If they love you back they'll be by your side. If they don't then you don't need them in your life.
I know how hard it is as a man to show what we perceive as weakness to others but this isn't weakness, it's a serious injury that needs to be corrected. Your friends and family love you for who you are. Don't **** that up over your preconceived notions of what it means to be a man.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-05-15, 14:50
Funny you should say that HMAC, I first learned of this issue from a guy who was just ending his fellowship.
Doc #2 I saw recently is a founding partner of the largest Orthopaedic office in Central FL and, as the director of a fellowship program, it was under he that Dr #1 fellowed. All foot and ankle.
I could PM you his name if you think you may know him, but I have no doubt as to the surgeons qualifications and expertise.
If they are that closely intertwined, it might behove you to get an opinion from someone not from the same 'school'. Not saying that anything is bad with these guys, just that it may not be a true 'second opinion'. I don't know if that would entail travel or if just the imaging would be enough.
Good luck either way, maybe some of us will have better luck with the honeys while you are laid up..
ETA- I can't believe that 40 to you is far off in the future...
Disneyland, malls and festivals- I don't need a bum foot to not want to go..
Depending on the procedure, you may want to hold off for as long as you can to avoid having to do a repeat procedure down the road. A lot of factors must be considered, including the patient's current quality of life and overall health.
Yes.He doesn't get to order the procedure like a pair of pants off the internet. A competent orthopod will explain the options and offer whatever procedure is feasible according to current technology, and current standards of care....the reason for a trained foot-and-ankle specialist. They are the ones that are going to know those techniques and standards, and have the appropriate equipment. They will be the ones that will determine and explain the relative merits of procedure-now or procedure-down-the-road. Not internet advice.
Consider consulting docs who treat professional athletes. After you narrow choices, go sit in their waiting rooms and talk, listen, observe.. Locate an experienced athletic trainer at a big high school or college and ask his opinion. He's seen it all twice. Consult a podiatrist for a non surgical solution. Are you coordinating with the VA for benefits?
As a general rule, surgeons will operate on anybody who will jump on their table. They all keep statistics. Best success happens with a surgeon who does many of these surgeries per year. There are hospitals and surgical centers. Most surgeons are in practices that have a surgical center and will press the patient to use their surgical center. The reason is profit. Surgical centers can operate with fewer regulations. Unfortunately, their infection rate is higher. The same doc pushing his surgical center will also have privileges at one or more hospitals. I hare-lipped two surgeons over this issue. If a doc appears too assertive about the issue, then he may be a first class asshole. They all are a tad egotistical so beware of using one who is also an egotistical asshole.
Forum members, congratulate Eurodriver. He very recently graduated from college.
I'm surprised at the unanimous responses such as this.
It does suck not being able to walk pain free sometimes. The issue isn't that I cannot do things - it's that they hurt like crazy so I refuse to. I find myself getting angry and frustrated when loved ones ask me to do things that involve lots of walking (the mall, Disney world, festivals, etc) because if I go I will be hurting but I don't want them to know that I'm too weak to do it. Frustration sets in and they end up thinking I'm a psycho.
I'm very weird about telling people. I almost didn't post this, but didn't have a choice because not more than 2 or 3 people even know this issue exists and I had to ask someone
It is not a weakness to admit that you have a physical problem. You find a part that is broken in your engine, you replace the offending part instead of limping along. You have to do the same with your foot. Suckered it up, get the surgery, sit on the couch and get fat, then go take it kinda easy for a year while you get back to your old self.
Eurodriver, from your post I gather you are still in your 30s. If the pain is as bad as you're describing it, do the surgery. I would suggest researching various orthopedic doctors and get more than one opinion. Some orthopedic doctors are not specialists in feet, so find one who does, preferably in a bigger city and university hospital setting.
I am 55 and in the mid 1980's my unit was involved in some aerial taxi work for operators and other plain clothes civilians in El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua. On one landing in Honduras, I experienced tail rotor failure (possibly due to small arms fire) and landed hard. Ruptured my L5-S1 disc and was out of action for a couple of months. Had a lumbar laminectomy operation. After I retired I had the same area worked on by a neurosurgeon doing something called a lumbar micro discectomy. This latter surgery has held up well. No pain and only minor numbness in my left calf.
Consider consulting docs who treat professional athletes. After you narrow choices, go sit in their waiting rooms and talk, listen, observe.. Locate an experienced athletic trainer at a big high school or college and ask his opinion. He's seen it all twice. Consult a podiatrist for a non surgical solution. Are you coordinating with the VA for benefits?
As a general rule, surgeons will operate on anybody who will jump on their table. They all keep statistics. Best success happens with a surgeon who does many of these surgeries per year. There are hospitals and surgical centers. Most surgeons are in practices that have a surgical center and will press the patient to use their surgical center. The reason is profit. Surgical centers can operate with fewer regulations. Unfortunately, their infection rate is higher. The same doc pushing his surgical center will also have privileges at one or more hospitals. I hare-lipped two surgeons over this issue. If a doc appears too assertive about the issue, then he may be a first class asshole. They all are a tad egotistical so beware of using one who is also an egotistical asshole.
This post has zero merit and can be safely ignored.
I've had my shoulder rebuilt twice and would do it again in a heartbeat if I was in as much discomfort as I was before both of those surgeries. I tore the pins out of the first rebuild and had to do it again....more like I begged to get it done again and I was (happily) on the table less than 18 hours after the second injury.
FlyingHunter
05-05-15, 21:26
Sorry to hear about your foot/ankle troubles.
In my practice, I've seen many cases similar to yours pre-op, post-op, and pursuing conservative non operative courses of care. There are no black and white answers, it's just not the nature of your type of problem. There are many variables: age, weight, biomechanical alignment of the entire lower extremity (not just the foot/ankle), prior injuries, co-morbidities such as diabetes, imaging results such as X-Ray and MRI, etc...In my opinion, it comes down to quality of life. From some of your earlier comments, it appears this has a negative impact on the quality of your everyday life (vs intermittent symptoms) and that's usually when I recommend pursuing a solution sooner rather than later. I've never met an orthopaedist that didn't want an optimal result for their patient. It sounds like your ortho is giving solid advice such as the honesty he dispensed: no promises it will help and don't expect a painfree normal outcome. These are signs of integrity. Advances continue to deliver improved outcomes for patients so there is merit to pursuing a strategic and thoughtful approach.
So here's my advice without the bill:
1. Carefully examine how this impacts your quality of life in terms of both function and pain.
2. Get educated. Study the problem, multiple courses of action, and options.
3. Listen sincerely to the advice of those you trusted to examine you and possibly provide direct care.
4. 1st pursue conservative approaches such as custom orthotics, sported physical therapy, NSAIDS etc...if this fails to help, it lights the path to the surgical intervention as the best plan of action.
5. Get a second opinion from someone who does this type of surgery frequently. We all improve with repetition. HMAC offered a 2nd opinion.
6. If you choose surgery -trust and follow the advice of the doc and especially follow the post op advice. Pace yourself for a long battle back to health.
7. Use this to focus on your recovery and health, not just the ankle/foot - all health habits to improve your future functional performance.
Wishing you the best.
I would add that, if you decide to pursue surgery, you should pay close attention to their pain management plan. The use of local and regional nerve blocks to control postoperative pain is truly a remarkable thing and superbly effective in the right hands and with the right plan. Don't forget to ask those questions. The surgeon might not be able to provide as much detail about that as the anesthesiologist. You should feel free to request consultation with him/her.
I would add that, if you decide to pursue surgery, you should pay close attention to their pain management plan. The use of local and regional nerve blocks to control postoperative pain is truly a remarkable thing and superbly effective in the right hands and with the right plan. Don't forget to ask those questions. The surgeon might not be able to provide as much detail about that as the anesthesiologist. You should feel free to request consultation with him/her.
Some places' SOP is a nerve block 99% of the time for post-op pain control. Other places, not so much. Pain control matters big-time. Your anesthesiologist is your best friend, who is tasked with keeping you alive during the procedure. Always request a good dose of pre-op midazolam ;).
Hmac, did I hare-lip you, or did you forget to take your pain medicine?
Take the snark to PM please. Discuss issues, not people.
I'm very weird about telling people. I almost didn't post this, but didn't have a choice because not more than 2 or 3 people even know this issue exists and I had to ask someone
30 years from now you'll be at a dinner party and instead of "being weird about telling people", you'll all be comparing your 'resume of repairs'.
Hmac, did I hare-lip you, or did you forget to take your pain medicine?
Zero merit.
Eurodriver
05-08-15, 06:51
There have been a lot of good, informative posts in this thread. I wish I could respond to them all.
I have a follow-up in a month, and will give things a good hard analysis til then. It does affect my quality of life, but the recovery is such a long one that it is still a bit intimidating.
On the assumption that this doc got it right, then no. First, there is no such thing as a simple procedure. Second, the rehab will be an utter bitch. Third, the odds are not good. Fourth, it's elective.
Eurodriver
08-06-15, 02:56
Had the surgery. I've never been in this much pain before in my life.
Does anyone have any advice for managing recovery? Not looking for the typical "rest, elevate, take meds on time" etc stuff but little tips you've found that helped? Anyone had a really serious lower extremity surgery? The doctor said it was successful and went well, he had to do less than he originally thought but right now that's pretty irrelevant. If I don't sleep soon I'm going to lose it.
Does anyone have any advice for managing recovery? Not looking for the typical "rest, elevate, take meds on time" etc stuff but little tips you've found that helped?
Seriously, "rest, elevate, take meds." If percs are not working (and they don't for me), get something stronger. Also get some ambien or phenergan, something that will work synergistically so that you can get some sleep. First couple weeks of this are hardest. Everyone I know who has had this have said how difficult it was. Good luck.
I don't know if this would help any or not with the pain but when I had surgery to reattached a pectoral tendon a couple of months ago in addition to the Percocet they had me using a Tens device. Basically it's a device with electrode pads that circulate electricity through the nerves around the area. The electricity basically disrupts the pain signal from the nerves to the brain. This is a very basic description and probably not done right but I didn't feel any pain after the surgery at all when using both the Percocet and the Tens device.
Had the surgery. I've never been in this much pain before in my life.
If I don't sleep soon I'm going to lose it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/health/04case.html
Had a knee replaced; been through the tortuous pain. Always slept on my stomach, couldn't after surgery so b/w pain and unusual sleep position I didn't sleep for several nights. Benadryl helped. Using anything as a sleep aid can cause dependency so tread lightly. A good dose of Benadryl should help break the cycle.
PM me if you would like and I would be glad to give you my number to talk. I found talking with others during PT really helped.
Seriously, PM me if you'd like.
Had knee surgery. The burning stopped mostly when I could concentrate on something else. I used video games as oddly as that sounds. I got really good at Halo 3 at the time. It doesn't sound like it will help, but it does take your mind of of it. I tried books too, but it was never as engrossing as a game was and I could feel the pulsing, burning feeling inside of my knee when reading. Games let me forget about the pain for about 15 minute blocks. It always came back though :/
Acupuncture and traditional chinese herbal medicine have helped me tremendously in coping with post-OP pain, tiredness and sleeplessness.
The only problem is finding a real pro, who has years of education (preferably in one of the huuge chinese TCM hospitals) and practice under his belt.
best wishes for a speedy recovery!
If I don't sleep soon I'm going to lose it.
C'mon man. Let us know you are ok.
SilverBullet432
08-06-15, 16:25
My co worker just got back after being out for 88 days. Hip surgery. He says he was in less pain after the surgery then how he limped into the hospital with. Turns out he had an odd birth defect and had been fuc*ing up his hip his entire life.
Hes only 31 :blink:
Seriously, "rest, elevate, take meds." If percs are not working (and they don't for me), get something stronger. Also get some ambien or phenergan, something that will work synergistically so that you can get some sleep. First couple weeks of this are hardest. Everyone I know who has had this have said how difficult it was. Good luck.
I use a sleep aid for only 2 or 3 nights, then stop for a while. A couple of good nights sleep will do wonders. Try to do something that takes you mind off the pain, even for a few minutes. It sounds like you made the right decision. Keep us up to date as you recover.
Eurodriver
08-06-15, 18:29
C'mon man. Let us know you are ok.
Thanks man. Will PM if I need anything.
Every time I start typing or reading a thread I begin to doze off. But as soon as I put the phone down to sleep I remember the pain and can't sleep. Rinse and repeat for 3 days straight...
Thanks man. Will PM if I need anything.
It's just hard to type. I wrote a post about tactical clothing in the disaster forum and it literally took me about 2 hours. I don't even remember writing most of it, and I don't even know why I was so determined to write it. All I remember was sitting on my couch in the middle of the night saying to myself "idiots wearing 5.11 to McDonald's..."
Every time I start typing or reading a thread I begin to doze off. But as soon as I put the phone down to sleep I remember the pain and can't sleep. Rinse and repeat for 3 days straight...
So if I'm wearing my 5.11s I can't eat McDonalds?
Seriously man, hope it get's easier. Try putting the phone down and watching C-SPAN or old movies on TCM. That might get you dozed off easier. Also set the timer on your TV to shut off after 2 hours so you aren't woken up later by infomercials.
I'd also second if the pain meds aren't working, ask for something stronger. Sleep is a huge part of recovery. The most important thing is....don't do anything to undo the work that has been done. You don't want to go through any of this a second time.
Eurodriver
08-07-15, 08:53
Slept about 5 hours last night with a brief 30min interruption to take medication and adjust my leg position. The pain hasn't gotten much better but there has been a noticable improvement. The issue now seems to be that I haven't "gone" in 5 days...
The issue now seems to be that I haven't "gone" in 5 days...
Ouch. I did that once with a rib injury. Worst pain I have ever endured.
I have broken each of my ankles two times along with many other bones, so I feel your pain. The best way to manage that pain, besides taking your meds of course, is to just deal with it. Mind over matter. It won't last forever, and in a few months you will forget about it. Stay hydrated.
The issue now seems to be that I haven't "gone" in 5 days...
Miralax and colace, and lots of water. The percs will do this (as will any narcotic), and add being flat on your ass with no activity and you have a recipe for concrete to collect in your colon.
There's pre-filled enema called Fleet that can be bought at any pharmacy, and works almost immediately.
Trust me, you don't want to constipated or even wait while other laxatives take over night to work.
I was on Predisone for a long time and Fleet enema was absolutely necessary.
Def need to aggressively stay ahead of constipation postop.
Eurodriver
08-08-15, 08:57
Thanks for all the advice so far everyone. The recovery has been much worse than what I expected and while my surgeon is renown for excellent surgical skills his post op info could be a bit better. I am absolutely not the person to be laying on a couch for an entire week, and it's really starting to get to me.
Averageman
08-08-15, 09:18
Glad you are feeling better.
To answer the original question: If your foot is gradually degrading, this does not seem like a question of whether or not you "have" to. It seems to me that if you don't do the surgery, you will soon be wheelchair bound permanently.
Given the choice of gradually becoming crippled, or doing a surgery that is likely to help, I'd do the surgery.
Glad to hear you are doing better Euro!
I feel you on several things you are going through.
PAIN... Been there done that with a spine injury and eventually surgery. Worst pain ever in my life and wouldn't wish it upon anyone. My body from the waist down felt like a truck was parked on me, legs and feet would go numb and sometimes I'd just hit the ground. I was off work for several months undergoing physical therapy which was like torture most of the time, pain management, and epideral injections with about a 5" needle from the side of my back into the spinal canal!! And I HATE needles!!
Feeling the side effects of the pain meds.... Yea that sucks! I was told after the surgery it would cause constipation and DO NOT strain going to the bathroom or I could cause more damage to what they just fixed! I was scared to death to even try! You are definitely doing the right thing to aid in "going" and an FYI if you are on the pain meds for very long and then stop your body will have become used to them and then cause the reverse effect. Trust me that sucks too being all gimpy anyway and then have to get to the bathroom in a hury. So my advice there is gradually lower your dosage off of them allowing your body to adjust.
Being bored out of your mind and getting cabin fever being stuck at home and in bed....I was ready to flip my wig as well! I was on bed rest for 2 weeks. I ended up doing a LOT of reading which I am now very thankful for. One of my passions is hunting, I read and read which sharpened my skills tremendously in so many ways. I had friends and family bringing me books, magazines, and movies to keep me sane. Field and Stream and Bowhunter magazines were a couple of my best friends :)
Hang in there man! Best wishes for a speedy recovery!
Eurodriver
08-10-15, 14:03
Thanks guys. Good news - the pain is finalllyyy beginning to subside. I no longer feel the intense swelling in my cast either. It's not totally gone, but considering I've gone from 12 percs a day to 4 and the pain has decreased is a good sign I'm on the back end.
Be careful with the acetaminophen. 12 percocet plus more tylenol on top is a lot more than I'd take, personally.
You could ask for a script for straight oxycodone (Roxicodone) and add acetminophen as a separate pill.
Your doc ok with NSAIDs?
Be careful with the acetaminophen. 12 percocet plus more tylenol on top is a lot more than I'd take, personally.
You could ask for a script for straight oxycodone (Roxicodone) and add acetminophen as a separate pill.
Your doc ok with NSAIDs?
Glad you are feeling better. Heed this advice. There is a very thin margin between the right amount of tylenol and toxicity.
Averageman
08-12-15, 19:10
Wishing you the best.
This is better off as a pm
Be careful with the acetaminophen. 12 percocet plus more tylenol on top is a lot more than I'd take, personally.
You could ask for a script for straight oxycodone (Roxicodone) and add acetminophen as a separate pill.
Your doc ok with NSAIDs?
Definitely heed this advice! Tylenol will wreck your liver very quickly.
Eurodriver
08-17-15, 19:15
Stitches got removed today. I'm already over the inconvenience of not being able to walk, carry anything and the pain.
The carnage. Stitches got removed today. I'm already over the inconvenience of not being able to walk, carry anything and the pain.
Nice. It's definitely best to not fight the inconvenience and pain...you have to deal with it, regardless. You shouldn't have any trouble finding the motivation for rehab, even though it will suck too. Just keep your eyes on the prize, and all of the pain will eventually fade. I have rehabbed from many injuries.
Eurodriver
08-23-15, 12:09
I am now in a full (tie dye color!) fiberglass cast for the next few weeks. Still non weight bearing.
There is some annoying pain in my heel (I can't imagine why, see pic below) and Achilles, but the biggest issue is the swelling. Does anyone have any tips for managing this? How long is it to be expected? I struggle making it through half a work day because by hour 3 my foot literally feels like it is going to burst, but I am too proud to prop my foot up on a desk.
Other than that, I am completely good to go, except being on crutches of course. (Which is absolutely a "young man's game". Thank God for handicap parking decals...)
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/XRay_zpsayy1ct89.jpg
Do the docs not have you on huge amounts of ibuprofen? Mine told me to go to like 1200 units a day right after surgery. Keep it elevated. If someone bitches, point at your cast with your middle finger. Don't be proud, get what needs to be done, done.
Eurodriver
08-23-15, 13:02
Do the docs not have you on huge amounts of ibuprofen? Mine told me to go to like 1200 units a day right after surgery. Keep it elevated. If someone bitches, point at your cast with your middle finger. Don't be proud, get what needs to be done, done.
Appreciate the candid advice. :cool:
My doc told me no ibuprofen until 8 weeks post op. He wrote this in red and highlighted it...so I'm guessing he is very adamant about it.
Appreciate the candid advice. :cool:
My doc told me no ibuprofen until 8 weeks post op. He wrote this in red and highlighted it...so I'm guessing he is very adamant about it.
Did your doctor say that you could take any otc anti-inflamitory meds? Naproxen (Aleve) maybe?
Definitely elevate that foot as much as possible. Ice also helps with swelling, if you can get some gel ice packs in between the cast and your foot (I'm thinking on the top of your foot maybe).
The best advice is to call your doctor's office and ask them what you can do to mitigate the swelling while at work.
It always took me a few weeks with the cast on, before my foot wouldn't painfully throb after standing/crutching for 15 or 20 minutes. Elevation was about the only way to stop it, or at least make it not as bad. I never got any hardware in my ankles, but I imagine that is adding plenty to your pain and discomfort levels. This will all be a distant memory before too long, if all goes well.
Ask if meloxican will help. It's an NSID.
I take 15 mg daily for arthritis.
One of the benefits is you only need to take once every 24 hours rather than having to keep up every 4/6 hours doses.
Did your doctor say that you could take any otc anti-inflamitory meds? Naproxen (Aleve) maybe?
Definitely elevate that foot as much as possible. Ice also helps with swelling, if you can get some gel ice packs in between the cast and your foot (I'm thinking on the top of your foot maybe).
The best advice is to call your doctor's office and ask them what you can do to mitigate the swelling while at work.
There is evidence that NSAIDs (ibuprofen, Aleve, etc) impede bone healing. It is common for Orthopedic surgeons to require avoidance of NSAIDs for many weeks after surgery. Euro, I would recommend you pose questions directly to your surgeon re: swelling, etc. It will give you the correct answers. Wishing you a speedy recovery.
In general, swelling is helped by rest, ice, and elevation. Which of these are appropriate to your postop course will be best determined by your surgeon.
There is evidence that NSAIDs (ibuprofen, Aleve, etc) impede bone healing. It is common for Orthopedic surgeons to require avoidance of NSAIDs for many weeks after surgery.
Yes. Sounds like Eurodriver's orthopod is reading all the right doctor magazines.
One thing I can recommend for when you get out of the cast is to find a lotion you like to help treat the scars and replenish your skin.
I prefer Goldbond but St. Ives is good too.
Eurodriver
09-18-15, 14:17
Cast came off today - permanently. Fitted with a boot, but still need to use crutches. I spoke to the assistant surgeon today who is a little more vocal than the main guy. He explained in thorough detail what they did. They sawed my heel completely off in a sideways "Z" pattern and then placed spacers in and screwed it back in place. They also lengthened some tendons and did some other craziness. He said it's healing great.
I was surprised that these wounds still look pretty bad. Pics are below. If you are eating or don't like blood, I wouldn't advise clicking on them. But they're really not that bad I just haven't had a chance to clean the incisions yet or remove dried bloody bandages.
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_3491_zpsfhd2ixcc.jpg
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_3493_zpscucebz7h.jpg
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_3492_zps0dlacpox.jpg
I'll be totally honest. I thought 6 weeks post op I'd be well enough to go walk around disney world in flip flops. I had no idea how involved this recovery process would be - despite the doc's repeated warning of "You are going to hate me for at least a year after this."
Averageman
09-18-15, 14:28
You got that scar while surfing in Australia, a Great White grabbed you by the ankle on your second to the last run for the world championship's.
You had to give up your surfing career because of it......
Anyway, if she doesn't believe it add more alcohol.
You got that scar while surfing in Australia, a Great White grabbed you by the ankle on your second to the last run for the world championship's.
You had to give up your surfing career because of it......
Anyway, if she doesn't believe it add more alcohol.
I'd say that looks more like a Tiger got him in Maui's Kahului Harbor to me... probably about a 15 footer ;)
Cast came off today - permanently. Fitted with a boot, but still need to use crutches. I spoke to the assistant surgeon today who is a little more vocal than the main guy. He explained in thorough detail what they did. They sawed my heel completely off in a sideways "Z" pattern and then placed spacers in and screwed it back in place. They also lengthened some tendons and did some other craziness. He said it's healing great.
I was surprised that these wounds still look pretty bad. Pics are below. If you are eating or don't like blood, I wouldn't advise clicking on them. But they're really not that bad I just haven't had a chance to clean the incisions yet or remove dried bloody bandages.
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_3491_zpsfhd2ixcc.jpg
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_3493_zpscucebz7h.jpg
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_3492_zps0dlacpox.jpg
I'll be totally honest. I thought 6 weeks post op I'd be well enough to go walk around disney world in flip flops. I had no idea how involved this recovery process would be - despite the doc's repeated warning of "You are going to hate me for at least a year after this."
Looks pristine to me.
Eurodriver,
In a year, you'll be looking at this in the rear view mirror at this suffering, but right now is a very tough time.
You have my sympathy.
Hang in there, it WILL get better.
Eurodriver
09-23-15, 14:18
Today was the first day I really felt "progress". I went to see the physical terrorist. Not bad at all. I finally feel as if I am in control of my own recovery.
He put me in a whirlpool and did some electric stimulation of my foot to increase bloodflow. It was absolutely wonderful. My foot hadn't felt that good since before the surgery.
He stretched and pulled my ankle in multiple directions for a while, and then had me get my big ugly boot back on and had me walking down the hallway using a cane. Incredible, considering just yesterday I could barely put weight on it with crutches.
I am going back and forth between crutches and a cane today. I see him again tomorrow, and he thinks I may be able to ditch the cane as early as then. My problem is that I "hobble" because I am compensating for the pain instead of using a natural stride which ironically makes it more painful.
I always thought PT was a bunch of BS hocum, but maybe they know what they're doing...either way it felt amazing to carry my celebratory beverage from the fridge to the couch without utilizing an office chair on wheels. I guess that really doesn't sound significant, but if you hadn't carried anything while walking for 7 weeks you'd appreciate it as much I as do :dirol:
Looks pristine to me.
Thanks. That means a lot coming from you.
Eurodriver,
In a year, you'll be looking at this in the rear view mirror at this suffering, but right now is a very tough time.
You have my sympathy.
Hang in there, it WILL get better.
Thanks. I already feel much better!
I haven't checked in on this for a while. I hope your recovery goes according to plan.
I always thought PT was a bunch of BS hocum, but maybe they know what they're doing...either way it felt amazing to carry my celebratory beverage from the fridge to the couch without utilizing an office chair on wheels. I guess that really doesn't sound significant, but if you hadn't carried anything while walking for 7 weeks you'd appreciate it as much I as do :dirol:
It's only hocum when used to recover from non existent injuries. You have actual issues, glad it is coming along. Keep listening to the docs, MAKE SURE if there is anything you don't understand or if something seems contrary to what you are being told SPEAK UP.
I've discovered 40% of medicine is a form of divination where the doctor attempts to guess what is happening based upon the information you provide. I've seen catastrophic events avoided because of the smallest amount of information provided at the last minute.
Questions are free, not asking can be costly.
In the meantime you can start learning James Caan "cane" skills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgTuubaRD1Y
Sharp eyes will notice the famous Hollywood "MAC-UZI."
Eurodriver
12-24-15, 16:58
Merry Christmas to me...
The surgeon said he's never seen someone recover so fast at my final follow up last week. Three months after surgery I was deer hunting dragging dead does through hundreds of yards of thick brush. This is significant considering my heel was completely sawed off and screwed back on.
Unfortunately, two days ago I was doing some repairs at a local gun range and I came into excruciating pain. I could barely breath it was so intense. Nothing like anything I have ever experienced even immediately post op. Apparently the hardware has loosened and is digging into my bones and soft tissue.
Soooooo I am scheduled to have the hardware taken out. It's supposedly not very invasive but will put me back in crutches for a while. What a setback. It felt so good to be back to normal, and of course it had to happen right near Christmas. No football throwing, range trips, or anything. I'm a very bitter Scrooge right now.
I guess this is karma for being such a dick on M4C to the M&P guys...
I'm sorry to hear you are in pain. Sucks.
Can relate; somewhat. Had to get braces, again, and part of it was having posts drilled into my gums and roof of my mouth. One of the screws in my palate came loose and was rubbing against bone for several days until could be repaired. Couldn't even eat. Even drinking hurt terribly.
Truly, I hope you feel better. Don't get down. Will serve no purpose. Even when you are in the pits, just think about the guy who is pulling for you; dancing around in his underwear listening to the Grateful Dead, smiling and happy.
Merry Christmas to me...
The surgeon said he's never seen someone recover so fast at my final follow up last week. Three months after surgery I was deer hunting dragging dead does through hundreds of yards of thick brush. This is significant considering my heel was completely sawed off and screwed back on.
Unfortunately, two days ago I was doing some repairs at a local gun range and I came into excruciating pain. I could barely breath it was so intense. Nothing like anything I have ever experienced even immediately post op. Apparently the hardware has loosened and is digging into my bones and soft tissue.
Soooooo I am scheduled to have the hardware taken out. It's supposedly not very invasive but will put me back in crutches for a while. What a setback. It felt so good to be back to normal, and of course it had to happen right near Christmas. No football throwing, range trips, or anything. I'm a very bitter Scrooge right now.
I guess this is karma for being such a dick on M4C to the M&P guys...
Well the timing sucks. Just park it on the couch, find some good stuff to watch and take it easy, or as easy as you can. Better to get this stuff squared away while you are still young and have a better immune system and stronger recoveries.
Unfortunately chronic pain becomes the norm as life goes on. After two major hip surgeries and a complete hip replacement in my mid 40's which needed to be redone eleven months later, I feel fully qualified to make the previous statement. It's the first injury you cannot heal from that is the biggest hump to get over. I'm glad I worked hard to set myself up throughout my 20’s and 30’s as my mobility today is a challenge. Good luck with the journey Driver!
FWIW I was in a similar boat since summer.
Never quite had to have surgery but was essentially bedridden with brace and on meds that made me feel weird and emo.
Now I am back on thirds, and after an apprehensive two weeks; it's back to S.S.D.D. PT was hard, but it works. There's always going to be mild pain on cold and rainy days but, I can walk again.
There is literally no better feeling in the world.
SeriousStudent
12-24-15, 22:26
Dude, you are totally blowing this.
"Hi <insert girl name here>, yeah, my foot is messed up on Christmas Eve and I'm so bummed. I can't even move around - I'm just stuck here on the couch. What? Sure, you could come over and help with dinner or something..."
Repeat as necessary.
I swear, it's like I have to explain everything......
Euro, man that's downer. What Steyr says is true. Stay strong and heal quickly brother!
Dude, you are totally blowing this.
"Hi <insert girl name here>, yeah, my foot is messed up on Christmas Eve and I'm so bummed. I can't even move around - I'm just stuck here on the couch. What? Sure, you could come over and help with dinner or something..."
Repeat as necessary.
I swear, it's like I have to explain everything......
Yeah, but if there were any cute trannies in his zip code, I'm sure they would already be there cooking him dinner.
Eurodriver
12-25-15, 14:08
No trannies but I do appreciate that following me around eternally. ;)
At times I do wish M4C had snapchat though. ...
Thanks for the well wishes. I'll know more next week.
Averageman
12-26-15, 09:11
Merry Christmas to me...
The surgeon said he's never seen someone recover so fast at my final follow up last week. Three months after surgery I was deer hunting dragging dead does through hundreds of yards of thick brush. This is significant considering my heel was completely sawed off and screwed back on.
Unfortunately, two days ago I was doing some repairs at a local gun range and I came into excruciating pain. I could barely breath it was so intense. Nothing like anything I have ever experienced even immediately post op. Apparently the hardware has loosened and is digging into my bones and soft tissue.
Soooooo I am scheduled to have the hardware taken out. It's supposedly not very invasive but will put me back in crutches for a while. What a setback. It felt so good to be back to normal, and of course it had to happen right near Christmas. No football throwing, range trips, or anything. I'm a very bitter Scrooge right now.
I guess this is karma for being such a dick on M4C to the M&P guys...
Sorry to hear that, hope you heal quick and get back on your feet again soon.
Devildawg2531
12-26-15, 11:01
Cast came off today - permanently. Fitted with a boot, but still need to use crutches. I spoke to the assistant surgeon today who is a little more vocal than the main guy. He explained in thorough detail what they did. They sawed my heel completely off in a sideways "Z" pattern and then placed spacers in and screwed it back in place. They also lengthened some tendons and did some other craziness. He said it's healing great.
I was surprised that these wounds still look pretty bad. Pics are below. If you are eating or don't like blood, I wouldn't advise clicking on them. But they're really not that bad I just haven't had a chance to clean the incisions yet or remove dried bloody bandages.
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_3491_zpsfhd2ixcc.jpg
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_3493_zpscucebz7h.jpg
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_3492_zps0dlacpox.jpg
I'll be totally honest. I thought 6 weeks post op I'd be well enough to go walk around disney world in flip flops. I had no idea how involved this recovery process would be - despite the doc's repeated warning of "You are going to hate me for at least a year after this."
Eurodriver good luck with the recovery. 2016 will be much better for you. What caused the injury (I have been under the knife a few times and try to learn how to avoid it when possible)
ED,
Eventually, this hell of pain and immobility will be in the rear view mirror.
Hang in there.
Happy New Year to you!
Averageman
12-26-15, 16:13
ED,Eventually, this hell of pain and immobility will be in the rear view mirror.
But the Tranny jokes?
Well, I don't see that ending any time soon.
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