View Full Version : What Do You Think? Masonic Police
I saw this yesterday, not sure what to make of it. On the one hand they seem to have jobs that indicate they aren't whack, but then again.....
I know next to nothing about the Masons or their organization, but, what I am wondering is if they weren't given the responsibility within the organization to assess security, provide intelligence and interact with outside authorities and then took it a little too far.
Any thoughts?
Headline: 3 Accused of Operating Fictitious Police Department
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Three people, including one who works for California Attorney General Kamala Harris, were charged after claiming to operate a police department with jurisdiction in 33 states and Mexico and that traces its roots back 3,000 years, authorities said Wednesday.
Brandon Kiel, David Henry and Tonette Hayes were taken into custody last week on suspicion of impersonating officers as members of the Masonic Fraternal Police Department, Los Angeles County sheriff's officials said.
Detectives believe other people may be involved in the operation, sheriff's spokeswoman Nicole Nishida said.
Deputies found ID cards, uniforms and law enforcement-like vehicles along with other official police equipment during their search of a home and office linked to the group, she said.
However, Nishida said there were no indications the group was stopping the public or conducting other law enforcement activities.
State records show Hayes is licensed as a security guard and has a firearm permit. She previously owned Masonic Security Service, and she and Henry run the Beverly Hills-based MIB Investigative Agency, though its state license is suspended.
Henry is a licensed security guard and also has a firearm permit.
Kiel, 31, worked as deputy director of community affairs at the California Department of Justice since July 2013. He has been on paid administrative leave from his $67,416-a-year civil service job since Thursday. The Los Angeles Times first reported that Kiel worked for Harris.
Department spokesman David Beltran said the agency can't comment on an ongoing personnel matter or criminal investigation. He said Kiel "worked with members of the public basically on issues and questions regarding the work of the department."
Kiel, Henry, 46, and Hayes, 59, were arrested April 30 and released later that day, according to jail records. Telephone calls and text messages seeking comment were not immediately returned.
All three were charged on April 28 with multiple counts of impersonating an officer and other misdemeanors, said Ricardo Santiago, a spokesman for the district attorney's office.
Henry has been charged with committing perjury under oath for declaring the Masonic Fraternal Police Department is a state agency. Kiel is charged with misusing his government identification.
Hayes is a pastor and moderated a debate between sheriff's candidates in the most recent election, Nishida said.
Henry won an Emmy in 2002 for his work as a producer on a Fox11 story, according to Variety.com. He also co-produced a documentary with Hayes several years later about a longtime civil rights leader, the Los Angeles Sentinel newspaper reported in 2007.
The investigation started after various police chiefs in California received a letter in late January that announced new leadership for the Masonic Fraternal Police Department.
The Jan. 20 letter obtained by The Associated Press was copied to Harris. It was written by Kiel, identified as its chief board of director, and Hayes, the grand chief director, and includes a badge emblem with Henry's name below.
In the letter, the group claims it is registered with the state and is informing the chief it will be working with "Grandmasters, as well as fraternities and sororities throughout Sovereign Jurisdictions around the country."
The letter claims there are 5,686 lodges and that the department "will be able to acquire intel that is not accessible to non-fraternal entities." It said one aim of the department was to restore public trust.
A website for the Masonic police force says the group was created by the Knights Templar in 1100 B.C.
A man claiming to be Kiel and describing himself as chief deputy director of the police force later followed up with various law enforcement agencies to schedule sit-down meetings, officials said.
Capt. Roosevelt Johnson of the sheriff's department's Santa Clarita Valley station said he met with members of the Masonic Fraternal Police Department on Feb. 4.
Henry and Hayes showed up in black jumpsuits with Masonic Fraternal Police patches and stars on their collars. Hayes had a handgun on her utility belt, Johnson said.
Kiel was there too, wearing a dark navy business suit. They told Johnson they were opening a new Canyon Country police station.
Johnson said he grew wary when they couldn't answer questions about where they derived their authority, or jurisdictional issues.
"Brandon Kiel gave me a business card from the Department of Justice, showing he worked out of Kamala Harris' office," Johnson said. "That really raised red flags for me."
http://news.yahoo.com/3-accused-operating-fictitious-police-department-175440913.html
SomeOtherGuy
05-07-15, 08:42
I saw this yesterday, not sure what to make of it. On the one hand they seem to have jobs that indicate they aren't whack, but then again.....
I know next to nothing about the Masons or their organization, but, what I am wondering is if they weren't given the responsibility within the organization to assess security, provide intelligence and interact with outside authorities and then took it a little too far.
Any thoughts?
What little I know of the Masons is that they keep to themselves and avoid controversy. It may be that these guys are Masons, but that doesn't mean the Masons as a national organization support this. I don't see Masons as needing much security or wanting to shoulder the expense of their own full time, police-style security department.
If you know who Kamala Harris is, and you think about California for a minute, I think you'll reexamine your assumption that their jobs "indicate they aren't whack."
I think this is probably some guys who wanted to start up their own "police" agency, maybe even for reasonable purposes, but didn't have a clue about how far outside of the mainstream and/or government authority they actually are. The references to Knights Templar, etc. make me think they've been reading defective "history" books.
SilverBullet432
05-07-15, 10:49
:confused: So anyone can start their own police force? :confused:
:confused: So anyone can start their own police force? :confused:
The Catholic Church did it years back. The Knights of Columbus were more than a fraternal organization. It was the strong-arm of the Catholic Church and would inflict violence on anyone who messed with their members.
SilverBullet432
05-07-15, 13:19
Interesting, i was raised Catholic, ive never heard of anything like that. They always volunteer around here. But everything has its dark side... Every religion has a dark side.
My older brother was a member of the Masonic Lodge and one of the temples where they held events was in a rough area. They had uniform/armed security that were sworn reserve officers with the County Sheriff. They had no authority or powers of arrest off Masonic Lodge property.
If anyone were to abuse the limited authority granted them by the Sheriff, I know for a fact they would be immediately dismissed from the security contingent.
I don't know how security commissions work out in California, but the Masons like to maintain a positive profile and would no doubt cooperate with law enforcement if someone were to act beyond the scope of their limited authority.
I saw this yesterday, not sure what to make of it. On the one hand they seem to have jobs that indicate they aren't whack, but then again.....
I know next to nothing about the Masons or their organization, but, what I am wondering is if they weren't given the responsibility within the organization to assess security, provide intelligence and interact with outside authorities and then took it a little too far.
Any thoughts?
Headline: 3 Accused of Operating Fictitious Police Department
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Three people, including one who works for California Attorney General Kamala Harris, were charged after claiming to operate a police department with jurisdiction in 33 states and Mexico and that traces its roots back 3,000 years, authorities said Wednesday.
Brandon Kiel, David Henry and Tonette Hayes were taken into custody last week on suspicion of impersonating officers as members of the Masonic Fraternal Police Department, Los Angeles County sheriff's officials said.
Detectives believe other people may be involved in the operation, sheriff's spokeswoman Nicole Nishida said.
Deputies found ID cards, uniforms and law enforcement-like vehicles along with other official police equipment during their search of a home and office linked to the group, she said.
However, Nishida said there were no indications the group was stopping the public or conducting other law enforcement activities.
State records show Hayes is licensed as a security guard and has a firearm permit. She previously owned Masonic Security Service, and she and Henry run the Beverly Hills-based MIB Investigative Agency, though its state license is suspended.
Henry is a licensed security guard and also has a firearm permit.
Kiel, 31, worked as deputy director of community affairs at the California Department of Justice since July 2013. He has been on paid administrative leave from his $67,416-a-year civil service job since Thursday. The Los Angeles Times first reported that Kiel worked for Harris.
Department spokesman David Beltran said the agency can't comment on an ongoing personnel matter or criminal investigation. He said Kiel "worked with members of the public basically on issues and questions regarding the work of the department."
Kiel, Henry, 46, and Hayes, 59, were arrested April 30 and released later that day, according to jail records. Telephone calls and text messages seeking comment were not immediately returned.
All three were charged on April 28 with multiple counts of impersonating an officer and other misdemeanors, said Ricardo Santiago, a spokesman for the district attorney's office.
Henry has been charged with committing perjury under oath for declaring the Masonic Fraternal Police Department is a state agency. Kiel is charged with misusing his government identification.
Hayes is a pastor and moderated a debate between sheriff's candidates in the most recent election, Nishida said.
Henry won an Emmy in 2002 for his work as a producer on a Fox11 story, according to Variety.com. He also co-produced a documentary with Hayes several years later about a longtime civil rights leader, the Los Angeles Sentinel newspaper reported in 2007.
The investigation started after various police chiefs in California received a letter in late January that announced new leadership for the Masonic Fraternal Police Department.
The Jan. 20 letter obtained by The Associated Press was copied to Harris. It was written by Kiel, identified as its chief board of director, and Hayes, the grand chief director, and includes a badge emblem with Henry's name below.
In the letter, the group claims it is registered with the state and is informing the chief it will be working with "Grandmasters, as well as fraternities and sororities throughout Sovereign Jurisdictions around the country."
The letter claims there are 5,686 lodges and that the department "will be able to acquire intel that is not accessible to non-fraternal entities." It said one aim of the department was to restore public trust.
A website for the Masonic police force says the group was created by the Knights Templar in 1100 B.C.
A man claiming to be Kiel and describing himself as chief deputy director of the police force later followed up with various law enforcement agencies to schedule sit-down meetings, officials said.
Capt. Roosevelt Johnson of the sheriff's department's Santa Clarita Valley station said he met with members of the Masonic Fraternal Police Department on Feb. 4.
Henry and Hayes showed up in black jumpsuits with Masonic Fraternal Police patches and stars on their collars. Hayes had a handgun on her utility belt, Johnson said.
Kiel was there too, wearing a dark navy business suit. They told Johnson they were opening a new Canyon Country police station.
Johnson said he grew wary when they couldn't answer questions about where they derived their authority, or jurisdictional issues.
"Brandon Kiel gave me a business card from the Department of Justice, showing he worked out of Kamala Harris' office," Johnson said. "That really raised red flags for me."
http://news.yahoo.com/3-accused-operating-fictitious-police-department-175440913.html
I did not read the whole post but first thing that caught my attention is a woman can not be a Mason.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-07-15, 16:36
Every Mason I have known could best be described as "idiot". In the Marine Corps, ALL of my black SNCO and Officers were Masons, ALL of them. In fact, every Mason I have ever known, with the exception of my late grandfather, has been a black man with a severe superiority complex.
Check out the Masonic Fraternal Police website. It was put together by idiots. All three of these cats need some good ol' jail time behind bricks that Masons built.
Masonic fraternal police??? Really now.... Do these cretins seriously expect anyone to pay any attention to them or "obey" anything they say ? Douchebags. Unless the uniform is from a specific city pd or sheriffs office, I don't know who in their right mind would give these yahoos the time of day.
Every Mason I have know could best be described as "idiot". In the Marine Corps, ALL of my black SNCO and Officers were Masons, ALL of them. In fact, every Mason I have ever know, with the exception of my late grandfather, has been a black man with a severe superiority complex.
Check out the Masonic Fraternal Police website. It was put together by idiots. All three of these cats need some good ol' jail time behind bricks that Masons built.
We are not all idiots. :dance3:
We are not all idiots. :dance3:
I'll second that! :smile:
I wanted to see if any Masons might have some knowledge or opinions regarding this. I didn't intend it to become a bag fest on the Masonic Lodge. I have served and worked with a couple of guys who are Masons, they were upright guys, all of them. I'm not much into the whole fraternal organization thing, so never explored it. Thanks to all who replied.
I have been a Free Mason since 1983, but have not been active for several years.
The people who were arrested used their membership in a security contingent of the organization to promote their own interests to impersonate real LEO, which is despicable behavior. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and forfeit their memberships with the Free Masons for the rest of their lives.
WickedWillis
05-08-15, 14:03
I just wish I had an actual clue as to what the Masons really are and what they do. I get guys all the time that come into my store with fat Masonic rings and I have just always been curious. All the conspiracy theories and tinfoil aside.
Some background on Freemasonry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry
As a Freemason and a Shriner (and a cop), these goons make us look bad because of their idiocy. I get enough of that from the Dept, I don't need any from the lodge. The whole thing was fabricated on their end, no such activity exists, AFAIK.
Moose-Knuckle
05-09-15, 02:22
Sounds like a threesome of impersonation of LEO. We get guys that have fully decked out (read that expensive) "smooth units" for their POVs. I never could understand this level of commitment of posers and wannabe's. Some people watch way too much TV.
How can they claim they've been in existence since 1100 BC?
Maybe they got confused and meant 1100 AD? But then they said over 3000 years so........................... ya.
Moose-Knuckle
05-09-15, 03:09
How can they claim they've been in existence since 1100 BC?
Maybe they got confused and meant 1100 AD? But then they said over 3000 years so........................... ya.
Well when you make believe and you are in your 40's anything is possible . . .
As a Freemason and a Shriner (and a cop), these goons make us look bad because of their idiocy. I get enough of that from the Dept, I don't need any from the lodge. The whole thing was fabricated on their end, no such activity exists, AFAIK.
Of course if there was some secret activity, you'd say the same thing!
/tinfoil
Well when you make believe and you are in your 40's anything is possible . . .
I'll be honest, when I first read the story I thought they were claiming that their particular "police department" was in continuous use for 3000 years and were going to claim lineage to some local tribe of some sort.
WickedWillis
05-11-15, 11:51
Some background on Freemasonry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry
I would still love to actually know what they do, and why they do it. Honest answers, not typical internet fluff.
I did not read the whole post but first thing that caught my attention is a woman can not be a Mason.
No where to tie the string........
Real Masons aren't idiots. If they were they'd never get through.
I would still love to actually know what they do, and why they do it. Honest answers, not typical internet fluff.
Join the lodge and find out. You'd probably be surprised.
WickedWillis
05-11-15, 17:47
Join the lodge and find out. You'd probably be surprised.
I'm sure I will not qualify :)
I have been a Free Mason since 1983, but have not been active for several years.
The people who were arrested used their membership in a security contingent of the organization to promote their own interests to impersonate real LEO, which is despicable behavior. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and forfeit their memberships with the Free Masons for the rest of their lives.
I have been a cop for 23 years. Been a mason about 2 years.
From my Lodge's web site:
http://www.vtfreemasons.org/joining/declaration.asp
http://www.vtfreemasons.org/joining/portal.asp
http://www.vtfreemasons.org/joining/considered.asp
Declaration of Principles
Adopted June 12, 1940 by
The Most Ancient and Honorable Society of Free and Accepted Masons of the state of Vermont
Freemasonry is a charitable, benevolent, educational and religious society. Its principles are proclaimed as widely as men will hear. Its only secrets are in its methods of recognition and of symbolic instruction.
It is charitable in that it is not organized for profit and none of its income inures to the benefit of any individual, but all is devoted to the promotion of the welfare and happiness of mankind.
It is benevolent in that it teaches and exemplifies altruism as a duty.
It is educational in that it teaches by prescribed ceremonials a system of morality and brotherhood based upon the Sacred Law.
It is religious in that it teaches monotheism, the Volume of the Sacred Law is open upon its altars whenever a Lodge is in session, reverence for God is ever present in its ceremonial, and to its brethren are constantly addressed lessons of morality; yet it is not sectarian or theological.
It is a social organization only so far as it furnishes additional inducement that men may forgather in numbers, thereby providing more material for its primary work of education, of worship and of charity.
Through the improvement and strengthening of the character of the individual men, Freemasonry seeks to improve the community. Thus it impresses upon its members the principles of personal righteousness and personal responsibility, enlightens them as to those things which make for human welfare, and inspires them with that feeling of charity, or good will, toward all mankind which will move them to translate principle and conviction into action.
To that end, it teaches and stands for the worship of God; truth and justice; fraternity and philanthropy; and enlightenment and orderly liberty; civil, religious and intellectual. It charges each of its members to be true and loyal to the government of the country to which he owes allegiance and to be obedient to the law of any state in which he may be.
It believes that the attainment of these objectives is best accomplished by laying a broad basis of principle upon which men of every race, country, sect and opinion may unite rather than setting up a restricted platform upon which only those of certain races, creeds and opinions can assemble.
Believing these things, this Grand Lodge affirms its continued adherence to that ancient and approved rule of Freemasonry which forbids the discussion in Masonic meetings of creeds, politics or other topics likely to excite personal animosities.
It further affirms its conviction it is not only contrary to the fundamental principles of Freemasonry, but dangerous to its unity, strength, usefulness and welfare, for Masonic Bodies to take action or attempt to exercise pressure or influence for or against any legislation, or in any way to attempt to procure the election or appointment of government officials, or to influence them, whether or not members of the Fraternity, in the performance of their official duties. The true Freemason will act in civil life according to his individual judgment and the dictates of his conscience.
I hereby certify that the foregoing Declaration of Principles was adopted by the Grand Lodge of the Most Ancient and Honorable Society of Free and Accepted Masons for the State of Vermont on June 12, 1940.
Attest: Archie S. Harriman, Grand Secretary
I just wish I had an actual clue as to what the Masons really are and what they do. I get guys all the time that come into my store with fat Masonic rings and I have just always been curious. All the conspiracy theories and tinfoil aside.
There are really no secrets. Do some google searches. There is quite a bit of slanted BS out there online. But you can read about all of the degrees in very accurate detail. There are some differences in the ceremonies between different parts of the country and between the US and Europe. But the basics are the same everywhere.
I'm sure I will not qualify :)
Why wouldn't you qualify? Mason's do not recruit. If you are interested speak to a Mason and ask about joining. I am sure they will help you out. The first step is a simple application.
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