.300 Blackout Subsonic Accuracy a JOKE?

[Kill By Number]

You see everywhere people claiming 1" groups all day at 100 yards but I have not found a load that will come close. Searching online I've found no 10 shot group pics at 100 yards. Even with whole forums dedicated to .300 blk I found no solid data. I have no trouble getting it to group at 50 yards but it spreads way out past that. I've seen some good supersonic groups but I'd like to see AR based 300 blk subsonic testing. PLEASE POST HERE ONLY PICTURES OF 10 shot groups or five 5 shot groups with NO adjustments for fliers. I don't care what you think, just show me on paper AT 100 YARDS please. Tell us what rifle and ammo and any other pertinant info.

Also, the title of this thread is just to get you to read it. I do believe there are accurate .300 blk subsonic setups out there, I would just like to see some on paper and know how they are setup and what ammo.

[zombiescometh]

Well this is from 2011 but 10 5 shot groups with an average of 0.85 at 100yds https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?75272-Let-s-talk-about-300AAC-accuracy

Average of 2 3 shot groups of 4 different loads ranging from 0.3 to 2.1 http://www.thebangswitch.com/1000-yard-shot-with-the-300-blackout/

And im sure theres more then just those two examples that i found in 5 minutes.

[Onyx Z]

What is your barrel twist? This very well could be the limiting factor on the long, heavy bullets. Especially at subsonic velocities.

[Iraqgunz]

Picture threads aren't dictated by members. There is plenty of information about the .300 and accuracy. You could possibly help yourself by explaining your build.


You see everywhere people claiming 1" groups all day at 100 yards but I have not found a load that will come close. Searching online I've found no 10 shot group pics at 100 yards. Even with whole forums dedicated to .300 blk I found no solid data. I have no trouble getting it to group at 50 yards but it spreads way out past that. I've seen some good supersonic groups but I'd like to see AR based 300 blk subsonic testing. PLEASE POST HERE ONLY PICTURES OF 10 shot groups or five 5 shot groups with NO adjustments for fliers. I don't care what you think, just show me on paper AT 100 YARDS please. Tell us what rifle and ammo and any other pertinant info.

[Kill By Number]

Well this is from 2011 but 10 5 shot groups with an average of 0.85 at 100yds https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?75272-Let-s-talk-about-300AAC-accuracy

Average of 2 3 shot groups of 4 different loads ranging from 0.3 to 2.1 http://www.thebangswitch.com/1000-yard-shot-with-the-300-blackout/

And im sure theres more then just those two examples that i found in 5 minutes.

I asked specifically for 5 five shot groups, or 10 shot group pictures at 100 yards. Thanks for posting the links but neither has this. Any others you found?
Thanks

[Kill By Number]

The rifle is a LMT MRP with a 10.5" .300 black barrel with a 1 in 7" twist. It was shot using a AAC SDN-6. Ammo was Hornady 300 whisper, Gemtech 300 blackout, and my own loads with 208 grain Hornady projectiles and multiple powders EXCEPT Acurrate 1680 which I hear is the best, but hard to find. I have some Silencerco Harvester ammo and black hills ammo to try also on order.

[zombiescometh]

Wrong spot

[colt933]

Subsonic loads and 16" barrels mean that you really have to hold tight and follow through. A bud of mine has a Rem M7 and was getting like 6" groups with factory Rem 220 gr ammo. After I advised him to hold tight and follow through, he's getting sub MOA. I get sub MOA in my AAC brand 16" 1:8 barrel with handloads of 208 AMAX and 10.5-11 gr AA 1680. I can hit the 8" gong every time at 200 with a 6x scope and 762-SDN-6. Flight time is at least 2/3 sec.

[ex95B10]

Subsonic loads and 16" barrels mean that you really have to hold tight and follow through.
Do you care to elaborate what it is that you mean by "Hold tight and follow through"?

[safetyfirst]

I'd do two things.

1. Get the best shooter at your range to shoot it.

2. Work up a load ladder test and shoot that from a long rest, off a bench, let it free recoil.

When I get issues like this I usually let one of the bench rest guys confirm my findings with their ninja trigger fingers.

[colt933]

Do you care to elaborate what it is that you mean by "Hold tight and follow through"?

These are references to your form. Some rifles just lay there - you can let them just lay there ('free recoil' as safetyfirst states) and they will group great. But others require more discipline on form. AR10 rifles have always been difficult for me to shoot, compared to bolt guns in .308 as something about their recoil impulse/dynamics can highlight deficiencies in the shooter's form. I've had a couple of AR10T and a couple of Noveske N6 rifles and I just could not shoot them accurately consistently. I switched to the SCAR17 and have been very happy since. And something about the dynamics of the Colt 901 allow me to shoot it much more accurately than the AR10. I am not bashing the AR10. I am bashing my own lack of skill.

My experience shows that some rifles require an extremely firm hold with the need for heavy bipod loading and/or firm tension on the shoulder on the bench. I probably apply 20+ lbs of force pulling the rifle to the rear, into my shoulder, with subsonic loads and the 16" AAC barrel. My buddy withe Rem M7 has the same experience. If he just let it lay there and let it 'free recoil' as the safetyfirst above states, his groups were terrible. But when he held tight and followed through, his groups shrank to sub MOA.

I can shoot AR15 rifles and bolt guns great. I regularly shoot 1/2MOA with my DD 18" CHF barrel, and a Steyr SBS-TAC, with match ammo.

If you don't know what 'hold tight' and 'follow through' mean, it's time to get back to the basics for rifle shooting. I'm not trying to sound superior. My form has plenty of flaws.

Again, I don't mean to sound superior (because I'm not), but I think that with subsonic loads and a 16" barrel, letting the rifle 'free recoil' will give terrible accuracy results.

The advice of letting the best shooters at your range to try it out is excellent!

[Kill By Number]

These are references to your form. Some rifles just lay there - you can let them just lay there ('free recoil' as safetyfirst states) and they will group great. But others require more discipline on form. AR10 rifles have always been difficult for me to shoot, compared to bolt guns in .308 as something about their recoil impulse/dynamics can highlight deficiencies in the shooter's form. I've had a couple of AR10T and a couple of Noveske N6 rifles and I just could not shoot them accurately consistently. I switched to the SCAR17 and have been very happy since. And something about the dynamics of the Colt 901 allow me to shoot it much more accurately than the AR10. I am not bashing the AR10. I am bashing my own lack of skill.

My experience shows that some rifles require an extremely firm hold with the need for heavy bipod loading and/or firm tension on the shoulder on the bench. I probably apply 20+ lbs of force pulling the rifle to the rear, into my shoulder, with subsonic loads and the 16" AAC barrel. My buddy withe Rem M7 has the same experience. If he just let it lay there and let it 'free recoil' as the safetyfirst above states, his groups were terrible. But when he held tight and followed through, his groups shrank to sub MOA.

I can shoot AR15 rifles and bolt guns great. I regularly shoot 1/2MOA with my DD 18" CHF barrel, and a Steyr SBS-TAC, with match ammo.

If you don't know what 'hold tight' and 'follow through' mean, it's time to get back to the basics for rifle shooting. I'm not trying to sound superior. My form has plenty of flaws.

Again, I don't mean to sound superior (because I'm not), but I think that with subsonic loads and a 16" barrel, letting the rifle 'free recoil' will give terrible accuracy results.

The advice of letting the best shooters at your range to try it out is excellent!

I appreciate and will try your tips BUT if you could post groups next time you get a chance to shoot it I'd appreciate it. I have a LMT .308 (AR10) and it does require good form to shoot well but I have no problem shooting it. I shoot .22, .223, .308, 30-06, .380, .40, 9mm and don't have a problem shooting any of them accurately. I am not saying it's not the shooter, I just want to see the work of a good shooter on paper.
Thanks again

[lysander]

Normally, to start a picture thread, you post your own pictures first....

[Kill By Number]

Normally, to start a picture thread, you post your own pictures first....

I agree with you but I didn't think about posting here until I had thrown away all my targets in frustration. I switched my Dillon over to .308 and don't have any more .300 at the moment, but have some on order. I will post pics when I get to shoot them.

[Kill By Number]

Normally, to start a picture thread, you post your own pictures first....

I figured out the culprit as to why I couldn't get any loads to group for me. I shot last night with 2 different LMT MRP .300blk guns, one with AAC SDN-6, one with Gemtech Sandstorm silencers. Same shooter, distances, range, ammo, etc.

The first group is the Gemtech silencer and Silencerco ammo (which I am now a big fan of!). I am glad to see accuracy is possible in the platform.
33443

BUT the second pictures are of the SDN-6 silencer at 25 yards and 100 yard (without the silencer this gun shoots well). This shows bullets don't always travel in a linear MOA at every distance. 25 yards (4 moa), 100 yards (12 moa). The holes aren't keyholes and bullets must be going through the air in a corkscrew pattern is all I can guess. Something is not concentric with this setup, either the flash hider, silencer, or barrel shoulder and is causing wildly bad accuracy. (sidenote this AAC SDN-6 shoots great with 5.56 mounted on a different flash hider / barrel)
33444

33445

Any ideas on what is happening here???

[PathfilmsNZ]

Didn't Savage elect not to chamber rifles in .300AAC, claiming to be unable to obtain a satisfactory degree of accuracy from the cartridge? Unusual. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't shoot well, unless you have stability issues.

[Rayrevolver]

I put my only scope, a cheap Nikon 3-9x, on the 300BLK to see how I would do. 9" AAC barrel (1/7), Templar Archangel Suppressor, FOG 220gr SMK (reman) ammo, ALG QMS trigger.

I called the 2 flyers (low right), but they dont make too much of a difference. This is 10 rounds at 50 yards. I am sure someone can do a better job with this equipment.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy117/rayrevolver/Public/FOG%20Ammo%20220%2050y_zps84cjgtcl.jpg

[ex95B10]

AAC 300 Blackout 9" Upper w/Noveske N4 lower, Geissele SD-3G trigger, LMT iron sights, JP Silent Bufferspring.
Ammo: Remington 300 Blackout 220gr OTM (subsonic)
Range: outdoor/50 yards 95°

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/27/efee42bf54b14aeeb804e9b32704118f.jpg
Note: Pictured are TEN rounds of 300 Blackout, first shot group of 5 rounds is upper right grouping.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/27/2a23ec0766609973db89c5ffff710779.jpg


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