Favorite Sub Sonic 308 Winchester Ammo?

[556x45]

What is your favorite sub sonic 308 ammo?

Or do you just reload your own?

I have a 20 inch 1-10 Remington 40X and Surefire SOCOM suppressor.

I cant seem to find any Tightgroup powder or else Id try 10 gr and a 175 SMK. Just dont want a baffle strike is all!

[CrazyIrishman]

Roll my own! (subs off the shelf are much to expensive for me) , tightgroup and red dot seemed to give me fairly good results, been experimenting with with accurate 1680 also for 300 blackout and 7.62x39 with really heavy bullets. but much further load development is needed for that powder (not getting the velocities I want or consistency) . Best powder hands down for 308 sub's FOR ME, Has been Trailboss but that's just me, in reloading what works for one man an his rifle may not necessarily work as well for another man and his rifle. (though there are exceptions). Trailboss is super fluffy and seems to fill up a large volume of the case, although there are five or so powders that are fluffier, cant seem to find the chart for it at the moment. I will check my load book and see what my charge weight is for trailboss and tightgroup shortly. Do you have a chrono also? and if you do the load development with a chrono and no suppressor attached. and DONT get any signs of key-holing . Than you shouldnt have to worry about a baffle strike, thank god I've never had one. But I am fairly sure that most suppressor manufactures give you some lei-way(spell check) in that department I've measured some suppressors before for thirty cal that were .325-.350 of an inch at the endcap and also inside. Forgot to mention Trailboss is dynamite for 75 gr hornady and 69gr smk's in 556 subs also



sorry for the terrible spelling and sentance structure along with jumping around its late I'm tired and it been a really long week. Hope this helps

[556x45]

Thank you for the information.

I had not heard about Trail Boss and the 556. I have alot of 69 and 75 grainers I could use.

I would be using a chrono and no suppressor to start.

I use my 762 SOCOM on my 556 rifles as well.

Any load data much appreciated!

[Ned Christiansen]

Rolled my own years ago before Trail Boss made it easier.

I just got some from Beck Ammunition, have not tried it yet but they seem to have made it a bit of a specialty and even offer a special AR to function with their 5.56 subsonic. I also got some of their .308 subsonic and of course they are loading .300 BK.

[CrazyIrishman]

I'm looking for my log book right now, It may be at my brothers because he lives right next to the club we shoot at, and that's funny you mention the thirty cal on your 556. I'm about to pick up a deadair sandman since their developing 556 end caps for their suppressors, but even if they didn't I'd still b fine with just one thirty cal suppressor to swap between all my rifles. Btw I know my Trail Boss 556 load is 4.1 gr but other people have said on another forum that their load goes supersonic at that charge weight but I've also seen others got to 4.6 grains of Trail Boss after tweaking the seating depth a bit and still staying around 1000 fps.and 3.2gn of win 231 behind a 55gn round puts me at 1050fps . I know on my 308 loads and trail boss i started at 7 grains and ended somewhere around 9 grains but those are the only numbers i can remember for that caliber im only drawing blanks for my Titegroup and Unique Loads. and you do the cotton trick with your rounds right? i didn't a few months ago due to just plain forgetting to do it . 3 out of 15 rounds just went click.....dumbassery at its finest. And now if some one could pitch in some info if they got a subs load that cycles their weapon even with a adj gas block its seems to be hit or miss.... I know extreme shock has a 100 gr load that works but if your lucky enough to find it, its stupid expensive but a 90 grain bullet and the right powder and twist rate and you may have a cycling and stable 556??? 308 I doubt it I can barely pull my buddies lmt 308 charging handle without coming off the scope.

[CrazyIrishman]

double tap.

[CrazyIrishman]

Rolled my own years ago before Trail Boss made it easier.

I just got some from Beck Ammunition, have not tried it yet but they seem to have made it a bit of a specialty and even offer a special AR to function with their 5.56 subsonic. I also got some of their .308 subsonic and of course they are loading .300 BK.

How did I know They were going to come up in this thread. They are literally a very short car ride from where I live very short! Wish they'd stop being so secretive about their 75 grain subsonic carbine load and what makes their uppers cycle that load and share it with the rest of us, just kidding.... guess I should just go m4carbine.net undercover and just put in a application to work over there. hehehe

[Ned Christiansen]

Not saying you should try this but how about a 104 grain payload by putting two flat-based 52 grainers butt to butt. The neck will hold them but I'm not saying you should try this. I did this in .300 Whisper using a Sierra Game King and an M1 carbine FMJ behind it, upside down. They impacted consistently about 1 1/2" apart at 28 yards. You could tell which was which by the wadcutter-like hole of the carbine bullet.

But I'm not saying you should try it in .223. Especially with a suppressor. And if the inside bullet should shake free and get sideways inside.... oh no. And I'm very doubtful that 104 subsonic is enough payload to cycle it. Don't try it.

If you try it (which you shouldn't), let us know how it works.....

[556x45]

Do any other pistol or shotgun powders work in the .308 winchester?

I have Unique, green dot, blue dot, HS6, and some old 2400 I used to fire form 300 H and H brass into weatherby and 375 H and H into improved.

Do you guys use cotton ball stuffing or toilet paper for compression inside the case?

With a 1-10 twist what is the heaviest bullet you would try?

[CrazyIrishman]

cotton has worked great for me.

[556x45]

Thanks for starting loads for both 556 and 308.

I do have adjustible gas block and was hoping I could get the 556 to cycle.

Rookie question.

Does Trail Boss powder even fit through the inside diameter of a 556 case neck? It's pretty fluffy (on purpose).

[nate89]

I have also had good success with trailboss. If you are really looking for an easy and fairly inexpensive load, I use the 150 grain xTreme flat points with (obviously check this data and verify) 11.5 grains of Trailboss. This is out of a Ruger Scout rifle, and it is accurate enough for what I do with it, and not very expensive.

[CrazyIrishman]

yes sir it fits, I'm not by my shop right now, but if i remember correctly its diameter was about a quarter or a third of the diameter of the case neck of 556, its wide thick circles with a hole in the middle. About 2.5 to 3 times as wide as bullseye powder and god only knows how much thicker. it never gave me any problems while loading 308 or 556. and i have not forgot about you 556x45 I just have a serious staph infection right now but after I get this cut out tomorrow Ill dive over to my brothers later this week to snag my loads and log book. Work up these loads though never copy and paste.KABOOMS! are not worth it. or in the case of subsonic loads a bullet possibly lodged in the barrel? or a baffle strike. and I've seen a few people modify their rifles to shoot and cycle their sub loads reliably but quite a few modifications were needed along with many afternoons spent at the range doing T&E, and many nights spent fiddling at the reloading bench.

[Ned Christiansen]

I know the theme here is .308 subsonic but as I mentioned Beck Ammunition earlier, I just fired some of their subsonic 5.56 w/ 77 SMK, works just fine. Shoots 4 mils low and 1/2 mil right at 100 yards and you can see the little darlins in the scope. Shot two groups of five, just under and just over 2", I'm fine with that given that shooting it much beyond that would be a lot of work. Probably could do better under better conditions (today was 'coming out" day for the deer flies I guess).

[556x45]

Ned,

Did you chronograph your Beck 77 grain ammo?

And are you shooting a 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrel?

thanks!

[Ready.Fire.Aim]

I have an integrally suppressed FN patrol bolt by Johns Guns. Factory barrel (1:12) optimized for 168g SMK so I am limited to 180g bullets.

I use 15g Trail boss powder and Hornady 180 gn round nose bullets. COAL is 2.65"

I have killed a lot of wild hogs DRT with brain shots at night. Hollywood quiet, very accurate.

[bullitt]

I have also had good success with trailboss. If you are really looking for an easy and fairly inexpensive load, I use the 150 grain xTreme flat points with (obviously check this data and verify) 11.5 grains of Trailboss. This is out of a Ruger Scout rifle, and it is accurate enough for what I do with it, and not very expensive.

I have been tempted to try those for subs in my Scout. Im worried that they aren't consistent enough and might lead to baffle strikes. So you run them through a can? Any troubles at all? What velocity are you getting with that load?

Also I've been really happy with the Sellier & Bellot subsonic ammo that comes in the light green box. It's accurate and very consistent velocity.

It's Spendy though, so I just started working up my own load now that I finally got some Trailboss. I have a bunch of old Speer 200gr soft point flat base bullets I want to use up first. I think next I might try some of the lighter bullets people are mentioning.

[556x45]

I was thinking of the 200 grain Speer SP also. It is a flat base and not much longer than a 220 grain Hornady RN, less than 1.3 inches long. JB software says it should stabilize fine in a 1:10. Let me know how it does if you do work up a load. Ive got the bullets, just not the powder. ALso have some pulled Winchester power point 180 grain semi spit.

[bullitt]

I was thinking of the 200 grain Speer SP also. It is a flat base and not much longer than a 220 grain Hornady RN, less than 1.3 inches long. JB software says it should stabilize fine in a 1:10. Let me know how it does if you do work up a load. Ive got the bullets, just not the powder. ALso have some pulled Winchester power point 180 grain semi spit.

I tested a couple loads with those bullets a few weeks ago.

Gun: Ruger Gunsite Scout, 16.1" barrel, 1:10 twist
Bullet: Speer "Hot-Cor" 200gr soft point flat base
Powder: Trailboss
Primer: WLRM
Air Temp: 53 degrees F
Altitude: 850'

Keep in mind these were only 3 shot groups since I had limited supplies to make test rounds with. All stabilized fine in my Ruger Scout Rifle.

Charge: 10.5gr
Avg Velocity: 932fps

Charge: 11gr
Avg Velocity: 937fps

Charge: 11.5gr
Avg Velocity: 969fps

The higher the charge the smaller my velocity spreads were, but they were still pretty big. The 11.5gr load had the smallest at 52fps. Accuracy was also best with the higher charge. I think 11.7gr-12gr might be about right.

The Sellier & Bellot factory ammo had an average velocity of 1015 and an extreme spread of only 11fps. It used a 200gr SMK-like bullet.

[556x45]

Thanks very much for data!

You saved me a couple of trips to the range, I am sure.

I am shooting a 20 inch barrel and will let you know how it does.

Do you think a Magnum primer is indicated? An old article said it improves accuracy in subs by 8%. Dont recall what powder they were using. Red Dot maybe?

[bullitt]

I used magnums because I read that it helped get good ignition on small charges. I didn't have time or supplies to try it with a standard primer also. It would be a good test to do though.

[556x45]

Any of you guys chronographed your factory ammo?

[bullitt]

Any of you guys chronographed your factory ammo?

Bottom of post #19

[556x45]

Bullitt,

I found some Trailboss and have loaded up some test runs from 12.5 down to 11.5 grains with new primed and neck sized Winchester brass with WLR primer and Speer 200 grain.

Do you recall what your OCL is?

Speer recommended 2.750 and my run came out about 2.758, so close enough. I have not checked how long it is to engage my rifling yet. Ive read all sorts of advice from use a conventional 15-30/1000, to go up to 100/1000 off. So just figured I would adjust OCL once I found a reliable velocity range.

[bullitt]

I loaded to a coal of 2.800". I have no idea how far off the lands of my rifle that is.