View Full Version : Delta Force kills ISIS Comander Abu Sayyaf.
It appears that they conducted a raid in Syria to get this bastard:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/16/us-conducts-raid-on-isis-in-syria-kills-top-official/
From the link:
A team of Delta Force commandos slipped across the border from Iraq under cover of darkness Saturday aboard Black Hawk helicopters and V-22 Osprey aircraft, according to a U.S. defense official knowledgeable about details of the raid.
The U.S. team killed leader Abu Sayyaf and 11 other ISIS fighters and captured his wife, Umm Sayyaf. Multiple defense officials told Fox News that while no Americans were injured or killed in the operation, some of the fighting was hand-to-hand and that Sayyaf used women and children as human shields.
"It was a real firefight - a no kidding old school firefight," a senior defense official said.
Bravo gentlemen, bravo.
SilverBullet432
05-16-15, 18:09
Nice. No more oil for isis.
Good job to the guys doing the fighting.
And a hearty **** you in the mouth to all the limp dick narcissists in charge who can't keep their pie holes shut.
Wonder if it was the same type of firefight that Hersh claimed "happened" during the taking of UBL. I really hope that our brave men aren't being used for propaganda.
Always good to hear about a successful raid on the enemy.
I dont want to know....opsec... why don't they just say its US forces... but no... why not name the unit and show their faces now.
I dont want to know....opsec... why don't they just say its US forces... but no... why not name the unit and show their faces now.
ISIS has their propaganda that they operate at will and do as they please, we've just demonstrated that isn't exactly the case. And no matter how much you want to be martyred, see paradise and meet allah...the realization that Delta can come in, take who they want and leave has to be a little bit unsettling.
Not like most people couldn't figure out it was one of "those guys." Not like they published Fred Williamson's name, address, phone number, rank and classified disposition.
MSNBC is reporting it was all done by this guy:
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002676461/3946824585_Tough_Obama_Soldier__53392_xlarge.jpeg
Not to diminish CAG. Good job guys!
The name has changed like six times since "Delta" anyway. And 74% of me is just happy I don't have to see another SEAL movie now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3uYrOVCgJk
This is all I think about once I saw them say hand to hand fighting
Mauser KAR98K
05-17-15, 14:40
Jonas Blane approves.
I really don't know much about Delta/CAG, but presumably they're well practiced in hand-to-hand combat techniques.
"Delta Force" is so 80's movie cliche'. Delta or CAG is more with the program!
Wanna split hairs? Technically it's "1st Special Forces Operational Detachment--Delta". No -Force in there. :cool:
As an aside, has anyone seen the YouTube video that is supposedly a CAG recruitment film? It's set to AC/DC's "Shoot to Thrill". Looks like now they have to mute the sound due to use of copyrighted material (the AC/DC song).
Are we really agruing over a name and my lame joke, I am proud that we are taking the fight to the enemy, I think this shows that ISIS doesn't realize the sleeping bear they are poking has claws, and that is a good thing
platoonDaddy
05-17-15, 18:25
Great news on the raid and everyone returned.
Now the news is Ramadi falls
Are we really agruing over a name and my lame joke, I am proud that we are taking the fight to the enemy, I think this shows that ISIS doesn't realize the sleeping bear they are poking has claws, and that is a good thing
Oh no, no arguing man. Was just trying to impart a little O/C humor, that's all. I too am proud to say that these types of individuals are part and parcel of this country!
Great news on the raid and everyone returned.
Now the news is Ramadi falls
Yeah, no shit. :mad:
As an aside, has anyone seen the YouTube video that is supposedly a CAG recruitment film? It's set to AC/DC's "Shoot to Thrill". Looks like now they have to mute the sound due to use of copyrighted material (the AC/DC song).
Yeah, I think it actually has Pat McNamara in it shooting a 1911. Pretty dated from what I remember.
Now the news is Ramadi falls
Boils my ****ing blood.
"Delta Force" is so 80's movie cliche'. Delta or CAG is more with the program!
Wanna split hairs? Technically it's "1st Special Forces Operational Detachment--Delta". No -Force in there. :cool:
As an aside, has anyone seen the YouTube video that is supposedly a CAG recruitment film? It's set to AC/DC's "Shoot to Thrill". Looks like now they have to mute the sound due to use of copyrighted material (the AC/DC song).
To be honest I wanted to put "Delta kills top ISIS goat ****er" for the thread title but I didn't think the mods would go for it.
To be honest I wanted to put "Dellta kills top ISIS goat ****er" for the thread title but I didn't think the mods would go for it.
Only because "Dellta" would've been spelled wrong. Otherwise you'd have been G2G.
:D
Only because "Dellta" would've been spelled wrong. Otherwise you'd have been G2G.
:D
No it wouldn't...:p
KalashniKEV
05-18-15, 00:57
Nice. No more oil for isis.
Not really.
They moved the Bayji refinery to Mosul months ago and will continue to refine for their own purposes, and sell crude to Turkey.
The vice-Emir of Oil just got a promotion.
"Delta Force" is so 80's movie cliche'. Delta or CAG is more with the program!
It's been ACE for about a long time.
As an aside, has anyone seen the YouTube video that is supposedly a CAG recruitment film? It's set to AC/DC's "Shoot to Thrill". Looks like now they have to mute the sound due to use of copyrighted material (the AC/DC song).
Post a link.
The CAG recruiter who visited my unit did have a hooah vid, and it did have a soundtrack... funny, the one thing I remember about it was a stack of guys pouring out from a trap door in a weird trojan horse kind of lumber truck...
To be honest I wanted to put "Delta kills top ISIS goat ****er" for the thread title but I didn't think the mods would go for it.
Idk, did you see the "c*ck fag" thread? Lolz.
The CAG recruiter who visited my unit did have a hooah vid, and it did have a soundtrack... funny, the one thing I remember about it was a stack of guys pouring out from a trap door in a weird trojan horse kind of lumber truck...
I had thought that crew was by invite only.
I had thought that crew was by invite only.
Anyone can go to the briefings.
Score high enough on the preliminary stuff and you get a slot to go on a vision quest for a month.
It's been ACE for about a long time.
What's it stand for?
Post a link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzHqqTmSnC0
What's it stand for?
Army Compartmented Element (ACE), falls under AOSA.
The U.S. team killed leader Abu Sayyaf and 11 other ISIS fighters and captured his wife, Umm Sayyaf. Multiple defense officials told Fox News that while no Americans were injured or killed in the operation, some of the fighting was hand-to-hand and that Sayyaf used women and children as human shields.
I am a bit concerned about something.
I am glad to see that they are having success, but what is with the repeating of the "...used women and children as human shields..." statement? I think I recall this in two other reported operations. Was it mentioned in the Bin Laden raid? It seems like some kind of propaganda line to me. Perhaps I am too skeptical of one-sided stories... but what is the authenticity of such a statement that seems to be a conveniently repeating theme?
Is that statement legit?
I guess I am asking guys that are familiar with the "culture" involved here.
Big heartfelt salute to the unit who took care of business.
I am a bit concerned about something.
I am glad to see that they are having success, but what is with the repeating of the "...used women and children as human shields..." statement? I think I recall this in two other reported operations. Was it mentioned in the Bin Laden raid? It seems like some kind of propaganda line to me. Perhaps I am too skeptical of one-sided stories... but what is the authenticity of such a statement that seems to be a conveniently repeating theme?
Is that statement legit?
I guess I am asking guys that are familiar with the "culture" involved here.
Using women and children as "shields", having them present around firing positions, having kids bring ammo etc was a common practice with the Taliban.
They knew that collateral damage was to be kept to a minimum, so they did it to limit our possibility to shoot back.
So yeah, pretty common.
Army Compartmented Element (ACE), falls under AOSA.
Thanks.
Using women and children as "shields", having them present around firing positions, having kids bring ammo etc was a common practice with the Taliban.
They knew that collateral damage was to be kept to a minimum, so they did it to limit our possibility to shoot back.
So yeah, pretty common.
In keeping with what I've heard from both Iraq and Afghanistan.
I guess it can be defined as tactically "smart" but I personally think it reeks of cowardice. You may be the "Lion of the Desert" on other occasions but on those instances where you use women and children as shields you're a f*****g pussy.
KalashniKEV
05-18-15, 20:18
I had thought that crew was by invite only.
Well he didn't just bring a cool video... he brought invites.
Great! When does the movie come out?
ClearedHot
05-19-15, 05:37
Great! When does the movie come out?
This was CAG, not the SEALs. ;)
In keeping with what I've heard from both Iraq and Afghanistan.
I guess it can be defined as tactically "smart" but I personally think it reeks of cowardice. You may be the "Lion of the Desert" on other occasions but on those instances where you use women and children as shields you're a f*****g pussy.
No disagreement on the "coward" part.
That said, in some instances the women and children are fully aware of what they are doing, and they do it willingly.
Whiskey_Bravo
05-19-15, 08:33
No disagreement on the "coward" part.
That said, in some instances the women and children are fully aware of what they are doing, and they do it willingly.
I have no doubt my daughter would want to be involved if I was in a firefight, doesn't mean I would let her.
Who cares. Until we start attacking these columns with B52s, B2s, B1s and A10s, I take none of these attempts by our government to do anything about ISIS seriously. Maybe instead of always flying around on AF1 use that money\fuel for a couple B52s on standby, ALWAYS in the air.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/05/isis-holds-massive-military-parade-in-west-anbar-celebrating-victory-in-ramadi-wheres-the-coalition/
No disagreement on the "coward" part.
That said, in some instances the women and children are fully aware of what they are doing, and they do it willingly.
Oh yeah, I'm well aware of that aspect too. Unfortunately....."civilians" and "innocent civilians" are not necessarily the same thing. Makes things certainly difficult for our guys given that the ROE's don't differentiate between the two (and it's no doubt difficult to do so in the heat of the moment).
Oh yeah, I'm well aware of that aspect too. Unfortunately....."civilians" and "innocent civilians" are not necessarily the same thing. Makes things certainly difficult for our guys given that the ROE's don't differentiate between the two (and it's no doubt difficult to do so in the heat of the moment).
Not really. There's a lot of issues with the ROE as it's been developed, but they exist for a reason. While there are plenty of smart and calm troops who can carry out difficult decision making in a TIC, there are just as many or more who are absolutely counterproductive when left to their own ideas. TTPs like the infamous Army "death blossom" as a reaction to an IED attack, as well as pushing convoys at high speeds and forcing local vehicles off the road with the threat of shooting for noncompliance are two that I was most disgusted by for a lot of reasons.
Anyway, in the event that a woman or child is doing something on their own free will to aid the enemy efforts, especially in a hard contact, they fall under the "hostile act" category and nobody would get burned for eliminating the threat in that situation. It comes down to the individual who observes the act and their decision to take the shot to end their efforts. It can be hard to determine who is a willing participant but it's often very easy to see when someone is being forced to be a human shield.
War is brutal, unforgiving, and no decision is without its own grave implications. Its far more important to be able to identify solutions and carry them out than many spectators believe. But shit happens when you party naked. And sometimes you aren't really given a lot of choice and you have to make an assessment of the risk being posed by inaction. Nobody feels good about it, even when you have no other option.
As far as OPSEC goes in this case, saying a "Delta Force Raid" is less of an identifier than when DEVGRU was named in the UBL raid. Unlike the latter, Delta is less of a fixed unit label and more like a tasker. But let's not make it any easier for those who would use that information for nefarious purposes and leave it at that.
This raid is a good victory for the home team. While we are actually doing a LOT of damage, despite the anti-POTUS media efforts to say we're not, this is how you dismantle an organization like ISIS. The target in this raid filled a role that will probably have been filled already by the next in line for the title, but he wasn't the objective. The information that will be pulled from this is going to damage their infrastructure. While it's easy to say we can solve the ISIS problem with massive aerial bombing campaigns, that falls into the trap of approaching a mindset threat as a group with a finite number of members in their ranks. The only way to dismantle this group is to tear apart their infrastructure and inner network, create infighting, eliminate their sources of funding, and support local resistance through FID. Hopefully we are seeing the future of warfare here, as this is how the Iraq war should have been conducted from the beginning.
Not really. There's a lot of issues with the ROE as it's been developed, but they exist for a reason. While there are plenty of smart and calm troops who can carry out difficult decision making in a TIC, there are just as many or more who are absolutely counterproductive when left to their own ideas. TTPs like the infamous Army "death blossom" as a reaction to an IED attack, as well as pushing convoys at high speeds and forcing local vehicles off the road with the threat of shooting for noncompliance are two that I was most disgusted by for a lot of reasons.
Anyway, in the event that a woman or child is doing something on their own free will to aid the enemy efforts, especially in a hard contact, they fall under the "hostile act" category and nobody would get burned for eliminating the threat in that situation. It comes down to the individual who observes the act and their decision to take the shot to end their efforts. It can be hard to determine who is a willing participant but it's often very easy to see when someone is being forced to be a human shield.
War is brutal, unforgiving, and no decision is without its own grave implications. Its far more important to be able to identify solutions and carry them out than many spectators believe. But shit happens when you party naked. And sometimes you aren't really given a lot of choice and you have to make an assessment of the risk being posed by inaction. Nobody feels good about it, even when you have no other option.
As far as OPSEC goes in this case, saying a "Delta Force Raid" is less of an identifier than when DEVGRU was named in the UBL raid. Unlike the latter, Delta is less of a fixed unit label and more like a tasker. But let's not make it any easier for those who would use that information for nefarious purposes and leave it at that.
This raid is a good victory for the home team. While we are actually doing a LOT of damage, despite the anti-POTUS media efforts to say we're not, this is how you dismantle an organization like ISIS. The target in this raid filled a role that will probably have been filled already by the next in line for the title, but he wasn't the objective. The information that will be pulled from this is going to damage their infrastructure. While it's easy to say we can solve the ISIS problem with massive aerial bombing campaigns, that falls into the trap of approaching a mindset threat as a group with a finite number of members in their ranks. The only way to dismantle this group is to tear apart their infrastructure and inner network, create infighting, eliminate their sources of funding, and support local resistance through FID. Hopefully we are seeing the future of warfare here, as this is how the Iraq war should have been conducted from the beginning.
That is basically what I was driving at. In the heat of a pitched firefight my hat is off to you if you can tell that a "non-combatant" (better term to use than "civilian") is indeed a non-combatant. I've not seen the elephant and you have, but I think it would be damned hard to make that kind of detailed analysis as rounds are coming in and going out. It would almost involve mind-reading. Of course seeing a kid or woman run out to retrieve an RPG laying out in the open would make that call pretty clear-cut. However, deciding if the kid or woman said shithead is hiding behind as he moves from Point-A to Point-B is a willing participant would be damn near impossible.
I've read of a firefight in A-stan with the bad guys inside the type of walled compound common there. The kids and women were seen to run from cover and retrieve weapons or run RPG rounds and MG belts to Taliban firing positions. To me personally this would allow the use of a JDAM on the whole damn thing, but these guys weren't allowed to do so despite what they saw.
Who cares. Until we start attacking these columns with B52s, B2s, B1s and A10s, I take none of these attempts by our government to do anything about ISIS seriously. Maybe instead of always flying around on AF1 use that money\fuel for a couple B52s on standby, ALWAYS in the air.
Three words: Arc Light Strike
Who cares. Until we start attacking these columns with B52s, B2s, B1s and A10s, I take none of these attempts by our government to do anything about ISIS seriously. Maybe instead of always flying around on AF1 use that money\fuel for a couple B52s on standby, ALWAYS in the air.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/05/isis-holds-massive-military-parade-in-west-anbar-celebrating-victory-in-ramadi-wheres-the-coalition/
B-1s are being used (and I suspect B-2s as well) against ISIS. But the strategy of operations Rolling Thunder and Linebacker 2 aren't how they're being employed.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-20-15, 22:59
Unless his wife and slave are the badass James Bond types, they should spill quite a bit of interesting information. Killing this dude is a morale weakener for IS, but it would be the same as killing one of our Generals: another would take his place instantly. Capturing the two broads, that's the money.
That is basically what I was driving at. In the heat of a pitched firefight my hat is off to you if you can tell that a "non-combatant" (better term to use than "civilian") is indeed a non-combatant. I've not seen the elephant and you have, but I think it would be damned hard to make that kind of detailed analysis as rounds are coming in and going out. It would almost involve mind-reading. Of course seeing a kid or woman run out to retrieve an RPG laying out in the open would make that call pretty clear-cut. However, deciding if the kid or woman said shithead is hiding behind as he moves from Point-A to Point-B is a willing participant would be damn near impossible.
I've read of a firefight in A-stan with the bad guys inside the type of walled compound common there. The kids and women were seen to run from cover and retrieve weapons or run RPG rounds and MG belts to Taliban firing positions. To me personally this would allow the use of a JDAM on the whole damn thing, but these guys weren't allowed to do so despite what they saw.
All firefights are not super-fast paced close range incidents - some drag on for hours, with great variation in intensity. A lot of observation is done, you assess and develop the situation, you maneuver - especially if you were taken under fire while out patrolling for example. Prepared/deliberate actions will also be different.
In this instance, Delta assault, it was probaly more fast-paced and close-up than what we mostly saw in Afghanistan.
Regarding engaging non-combatants, or individuals who can be argued to be aiding the enemy by for example carrying ammo between positions, it is the ground commandes prerogative:
-What effect will it haveon the situation at hand?
-Will it hurt the mission; short term and long term?
-Can it be justified both in terms og legality and legitimacy? (not saying it can't, but you need to be sure)
-Can you morally live with killing non-combatants or civilians aiding the enemy? (remember, you don't know if they are coerced or willing)
-Have you explored all other courses of action?
As for release authority and CAS, it sits with the JTAC on the ground. That said, I know that pilots have refused to drop ordnance because they read the situation to be too risky in terms of collateral damage.
There were also restrictions on use of CAS implemented in 2009, in Afgh, from Gen McChrystal, as there had been a lot of CAS missions that had resulted in civilian casualties.
Unless his wife and slave are the badass James Bond types, they should spill quite a bit of interesting information. Killing this dude is a morale weakener for IS, but it would be the same as killing one of our Generals: another would take his place instantly. Capturing the two broads, that's the money.
I disagree.
I think this operation is exactly how ISIS should be attacked. This dude was a mid-level financial guy, who was taken out in their back yard.
Sure, if they get Baghdadi, that is a bonus, but loads of guys would be ready to step up to take his place. Attacking their mid-level leaders can help reduce the ambition level of many ISIS supporters and members. This can help long term.
I also hope that his wife and the slave has loads of information.
All firefights are not super-fast paced close range incidents - some drag on for hours, with great variation in intensity. A lot of observation is done, you assess and develop the situation, you maneuver - especially if you were taken under fire while out patrolling for example. Prepared/deliberate actions will also be different.
In this instance, Delta assault, it was probaly more fast-paced and close-up than what we mostly saw in Afghanistan.
Regarding engaging non-combatants, or individuals who can be argued to be aiding the enemy by for example carrying ammo between positions, it is the ground commandes prerogative:
-What effect will it haveon the situation at hand?
-Will it hurt the mission; short term and long term?
-Can it be justified both in terms og legality and legitimacy? (not saying it can't, but you need to be sure)
-Can you morally live with killing non-combatants or civilians aiding the enemy? (remember, you don't know if they are coerced or willing)
-Have you explored all other courses of action?
As for release authority and CAS, it sits with the JTAC on the ground. That said, I know that pilots have refused to drop ordnance because they read the situation to be too risky in terms of collateral damage.
There were also restrictions on use of CAS implemented in 2009, in Afgh, from Gen McChrystal, as there had been a lot of CAS missions that had resulted in civilian casualties.
I appreciate the opinion and experiences of someone who has BTDT, you included. I was a grunt but was fortunate enough to have served when someone wasn't actively trying to kill me! I hear getting shot at is highly overrated. ;)
Yeah, this Delta raid was probably fast-paced and ruthless. However, that's how most of those HSLD missions should be given the circumstances they are usually conducted under.
As far as the JDAM scenario I mentioned as a former NCO my first concern would have been (per Army policy) accomplishment of the mission followed closely by welfare of the troops. To see locals actively running ammo to enemy fighting positions (hell, they're probably brothers/cousins/fathers/uncles) coupled with the fact that my guys were taking potentially deadly fire, well the JDAM option would be at the top of my list. Why fight with WWII tactics (and casualties) when you have 21st Century tech available? Fallujah comes to mind in that regard, but I digress.
Thanks for your input.
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