carbon and copper remover..

[texasgunhand]

Not sure if this is the right place to post. Since reloading iam shooting as much as i did a longtime ago.

Any good products for removing copper fowling from bores and carbon from bolt groups?
They can be two different products i just need one for each,been useing hoppies 9 for 30 years i guess havent tryed much else. I saw slip 2000 is making a carbon buster i love their oils.

[jstone]

Wipe out, or patch out, and tactical advantage. They are all made by the same company. Patch out wipe out will clean your bore with patxhes or a mop only. Tactical advantage cuts carbon from bolts vey well. A lot of people swear by fireclean. It is one of the few I have not tried.

[NWcityguy2]

Montana extreme copper killer takes care of copper fouling better than anything else I have tried, but the fumes will make you cough the first few times you use it.

[markm]

I used to use Sweets and think I was getting something accomplished. Then I followed up in what I thought was a clean barrel... with some BoreTech Cu2 and got some bright green patches.

[bigedp51]

Not sure if this is the right place to post. Since reloading iam shooting as much as i did a longtime ago.

Any good products for removing copper fowling from bores and carbon from bolt groups?
They can be two different products i just need one for each,been useing hoppies 9 for 30 years i guess havent tryed much else. I saw slip 2000 is making a carbon buster i love their oils.

I use foam bore cleaner because you apply it and let it do all the work without scrubbing. I collected milsurp rifles with frosted and pitted bore and got tired of endless scrubbing of the .bores. Below is a No.4 Enfield with a frosted bore and one shot of foam bore cleaner and all the copper is gone.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/foamclean_zpse279b70b.jpg

More damage is done to rifle bores by cleaning than any other reason and foam bore cleaner doesn't have any sharp edges and can't rub your bore the wrong way.
Spare the cleaning rod and spoil the bore.

[texasgunhand]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. Ive used hoppies 9 for ever,but my buddies rifle after 8000 rnds of tula ammo is is copper fowled for sure, and i would like some cardon remover to make cleaning BCG and bolt tails in AR rifles a little easer. Hoppies 9 does alright but theres got to be something better at removing faster to help eliminate scraping.

Also as far as cleaning with brass brush and rod,are you more scared of the aluminum rod scratching the bore or crown or the brass brush hurting the bore? Ive cleaned my whole life brushing and patching clean.
I know i clean to much really, i clean after fireing even say 5 rounds. And relube, this is a waste of slip ewl its stays nice even after multiple boxes are shot through it.(9mm)

Any thoughts are great,i hate cleaning after going to the range,almost as much as cleaning fish after fishing all day..lol

[bigedp51]

texasgunhand

I'm 65 years old and have been reloading for over 46 years, so do yourself a favor and give your AR15 a good squirt of foam bore cleaner. And also put some on you AR15 bolt, now wait a couple hours and come back and look at the "blue" that came out of your bore, flash suppressor, gas tube and bolt etc.

I saw foam bore cleaner first used at the military depot I worked at when they were cleaning artillery field pieces coming back from the Gulf wars. I bought some foam bore cleaner that night and never looked back and have been using it ever since.

Your the one asking all the questions so be advised I'm not afraid of cleaning any firearm. BUT I have also seen the damage sand can do when cleaning military firearms and large caliber field pieces and seen people over clean their own firearms and learned less is more. After I clean with the foam bore cleaner I give the bore and gas tube a shot of carb cleaner and when "ONE" wet patch of CLP goes down the bore using a cleaning rod. Meaning one trip of the cleaning rod down the bore using a good bore guide. This is very simple, let the foam do all the work removing the copper and carbon and keep the bore brushing to minimum. KISS= Keep It Simple Stupid

Finland developed foam bore cleaner and you may have heard of Lapua bullets and cartridge cases. So look the links below over carefully and look at the before and after photos.

http://www.milfoam.fi/barrel_cleaning_products.html

http://www.milfoam.fi/barrel_cleaning_solution.html

MILFOAM LTD

BARREL CLEANING PRODUCTS

SMALL ARMS

The bore cleaning foam is a cleaning agent, which removes the carbon, copper
and other residues effectively from any weapon barrel through
a chemical reaction.

The bore cleaning foam removes without brushing the powder and copper residues.
It saves time and labor costs. The foam replaces the long time brushing.

It completely replaces the current abrasive cleaning methods and uses Milfoam’s
patented and non-toxic foam technology. It makes it possible to efficiently clean any
gun barrel from copper and powder residues without removing it from the platform,
which saves both time and money.

[bigedp51]

PART TWO

Below is a borescope photo of a brand new Savage button rifled bore at mid bore and the throat.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/6inchesfrommuzzle-2_zps507846d8.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/Throat-1-C-RS_zps60cef129.jpg

Below is a new Savage button rifled bore before and after fire lapping.
(all it did was make the speed bumps smaller and they still eat copper bullets and brushes)

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/beforeandafter_zps0cd22899.jpg

Below is a frosted and badly pitted Russian Mosin barrel after Ivan cleaned it once or twice during WWII using his shoestrings and a piece of cloth he tore off his soiled underwear.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/pittedfrosted_zps38361969.jpg

And below is a brand new custom made hand lapped barrel.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/custom_zps1da8a9ed.jpg

Only the custom hand lapped barrel above isn't going to eat your bore brush and leave more copper in the bore and give you a false reading of copper.

So go ahead and scrub the crap out of your stock factory barrels and keep thinking your copper bore brush is doing a good job.

Now think of soft foam bore cleaner removing all the copper............and when you pull the trigger the next time your bore is full of copper again.

LESS IS MORE..................... KISS=KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID

P.S. I have milsurp rifles and two new Savage rifles and foam bore cleaner is the way to go and do no harm.

[texasgunhand]

Nice read,i guess ill start looking into foaming bore cleaners. Time for a change.. I guess ill look at academy maybe this week.. Also i would likr to look into the barrel lapping you did,looks nice..

[bigedp51]

Nice read,i guess ill start looking into foaming bore cleaners. Time for a change.. I guess ill look at academy maybe this week.. Also i would likr to look into the barrel lapping you did,looks nice..

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gif

texasgunhand

I do not make barrels
I do not hand lap barrels

I just shoot the factory barrels I do have and just clean them the best way I know how. http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gif

I just told you to keep your cleaning rod out of the bore as much as possible and now you want to lap your bores and ruin your barrels. http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gif

I'm beginning to wonder about all your questions so take this advice.

All the information in the world is written in books and all you have to do is read.
So put the comic books down and start reading reloading manuals and any books on firearms you can find.

Meaning if you attempt to hand lap a barrel with your meager knowledge you are out of your mind.http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gif

[rcoodyar15]

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gif

texasgunhand

I do not make barrels
I do not hand lap barrels

I just shoot the factory barrels I do have and just clean them the best way I know how. http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gif

I just told you to keep your cleaning rod out of the bore as much as possible and now you want to lap your bores and ruin your barrels. http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gif

I'm beginning to wonder about all your questions so take this advice.

All the information in the world is written in books and all you have to do is read.
So put the comic books down and start reading reloading manuals and any books on firearms you can find.

Meaning if you attempt to hand lap a barrel with your meager knowledge you are out of your mind.http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gifhttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bangHead_zps24aecf27.gif

I quit cleaning mine. Shoots a lot better dirty. Won't clean again until the groups start to open up.

I agree most people do more damage to a barrel cleaning it then the benefit they get from a clean barrel. When I clean the groups continue to get better for the first 20 to 40 rounds so I quit cleaning. Haven't found the point yet where the groups start opening back up.

Now this is a bartlein barrel

[bigedp51]

I recieved a PM about where to buy Milfoam and below is my reply.

Milfoam is the name of the parent company in Finland who invented the foam bore cleaner and who has the patent. The two top rated American brands are "Wipe Out" and "Break Free" but most of the time I just grab whats on the shelf and that is Gunslick and I see very little difference between brands.

Most of the time when I get back from the range I give the bore a squirt and let it soak over night with the barrel tilted muzzle down and let it drip on a paper towel.

Below is a link to all the products and a link on cleaning the AR15.


https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...bore%20cleaner

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum...-CLEANING-FOAM

Good luck

[bigedp51]

I quit cleaning mine. Shoots a lot better dirty. Won't clean again until the groups start to open up.

I agree most people do more damage to a barrel cleaning it then the benefit they get from a clean barrel. When I clean the groups continue to get better for the first 20 to 40 rounds so I quit cleaning. Haven't found the point yet where the groups start opening back up.

Now this is a bartlein barrel

At one time I collected the British Enfield rifle and any books and manuals on this rifle. After firing the British troops would pore at least two pints of boiling water down the bore. The boiling water removed the corrosive priming salts and the carbon from the bore. The Armourers would inspect issued rifles quarterly and during these inspections they would decide if a copper remover was needed. The Armourers would mix up the copper remover and "they" would remove the copper from the bore. So yes the industry oversells their cleaning products to make more money and we "over clean" our bores.

You saw the photos of factory button rifled barrels I posted and brushing these barrels with a copper brush is a fruitless task. And the foam bore cleaner takes all the work out cleaning your bore without using a cleaning rod.

[texasgunhand]

I didnt know if you were lapping your barrels or if you were buying them that way. Honestly big , the factory guns ive had my whole life shoot fine to me, i think the way i posted my question was the problem. I can see the advantages of the lapped barrel over a stock one.

I see that posting my questions here has always been a problem , at 50 i dont read many comic books. anymore. I dont know anyone who reloads thats why i ask, but it seems that i get insults with my answers so ill stop posting , its not worth the info..

Ps .. if i want a book on reloading its an 80 mile round trip from here to austin,needless to say i dont get over there on a whim.. Thanks to all that have helped me get this far on my reloading,i guess when i move to rifle, ill figure it out..

Thanks markm, your help has been greatly appreciated,youve always been nice in helping me get my head wrapped around something new and confusing.. Maybe i can meet someone at the gun range to help me with rifle loading,people are a lot nicer to my face,, than over the net.

[Joe Mamma]

The best product that I have used for cleaning copper and carbon is Bore Tech Eliminator. It works unbelievably well. One thing that people might not know is that there is no strong ammonia smell (or other smell) with Bore Tech Eliminator.

I've used foaming bore cleaner before and was not impressed. I also used Sweets 7.62, but didn't like the strong smell (and I think Bore Tech Eliminator works at least as well without the smell).

Joe Mamma

[JW5219]

The best product that I have used for cleaning copper and carbon is Bore Tech Eliminator. It works unbelievably well. One thing that people might not know is that there is no strong ammonia smell (or other smell) with Bore Tech Eliminator.

I've used foaming bore cleaner before and was not impressed. I also used Sweets 7.62, but didn't like the strong smell (and I think Bore Tech Eliminator works at least as well without the smell).

Joe Mamma

+1 on this. Boretech eliminator works well, as does their regular Copper Remover. Good stuff!

[bigedp51]

I didnt know if you were lapping your barrels or if you were buying them that way. Honestly big , the factory guns ive had my whole life shoot fine to me, i think the way i posted my question was the problem. I can see the advantages of the lapped barrel over a stock one.

I see that posting my questions here has always been a problem , at 50 i dont read many comic books. anymore. I dont know anyone who reloads thats why i ask, but it seems that i get insults with my answers so ill stop posting , its not worth the info..

Ps .. if i want a book on reloading its an 80 mile round trip from here to austin,needless to say i dont get over there on a whim.. Thanks to all that have helped me get this far on my reloading,i guess when i move to rifle, ill figure it out..

Thanks markm, your help has been greatly appreciated,youve always been nice in helping me get my head wrapped around something new and confusing.. Maybe i can meet someone at the gun range to help me with rifle loading,people are a lot nicer to my face,, than over the net.

texasgunhand

Google is your best friend for getting informatio off the internet, BUT you have to wade through all the BS to get to the real facts. Books on the other hand written by well known people in the shooting fraternity are a even better source.

Example: Right now at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ there is a person by the screen name mutigunner handing out information. The problem with this is mutigunner does not cast bullets or even have a reloading press. Meaning any crazy nut can answer a question in a forum and YOU need to find out who the sane ones are.

And it isn't 80 miles to your mailbox and you can order all the books you want on the internet.

I have been reloading for over 46 years and every winter I pick up one of my reloading manuals and reread the manual. I do this to replace the information that has leaked out of my ears and out of my memory.

Yes I came across as harsh, and I said this after trying to get you to spend LESS time in your barrel with a cleaning rod. And then you stated you were thinking about lapping your barrel and do the exact thing I warned you not to do. So don't blame me for getting warm under the collar in my earlier reply.

Always remember less is more and to look before you leap, measure twice and cut once, etc.etc.etc.

[texasgunhand]

Thought i would look into lapping barrels never heard of it before,i meant, what it would take to do one. Not that i was going to do mine. If i can keep all my shots in a 3 inch bulls eye at 100 to 200 yards iam happy.
Were i live your not going to be shooting deer any further than that,to wooded.

After moving to victoria tx. i stopped hunting with a rifle. The deer are so thick there all you need is an ear of corn and a brick, and to just sit real still..lol..

Ive been shooting for 40 years,i stopped for about 15 , just started up again . just got back from the range a min. ago trying to get back into the swing of it, every trip it gets better. Like rideing a bicycle i guess. Iam working on my pistol skills right now , i didnt lose much in the rifle department really after a couple of trips it came back fast.

As far as reloading, i just started shooting my own reloads i bought the equipment in December but waited 3 or 4 months reading , watching videos etc and trying to figure out how to do it safely before i ever fired one. Now about 300 rounds later i feel like iam getting the hang of pistol rounds ok.

Rifle i havent started on yet, so i only have a few months experience in reloading. As far as working on and cleaning i was tought by my grandfather and just havent moved on to the way things are being done now. Theres so many fads and wonder products that pop up then go away just as fast. As far as why i clean pistols so much is becouse thats the way police wanted it done clean and very lighty lubed for a duty gun.
My range guns get to much lube compared to one a carried for duty 20 years ago. Becouse they get wiped down when i get home. My buddies always say people dont buy glocks to clean them..lol

[markm]

Thought i would look into lapping barrels never heard of it before,i meant, what it would take to do one. Not that i was going to do mine.

Never heard of it ruining barrels.... but I'd simply buy a GOOD (Kreiger) barrel before I'd attempt to lap a button rifled barrel... I mean... just buy a cut rifled barrel in the first place if that's the quality you're after.

[Molon]

. . . I'd simply buy a GOOD (Kreiger) barrel before I'd attempt to lap a button rifled barrel... I mean... just buy a cut rifled barrel in the first place if that's the quality you're after.

Even a single-point cut-rifling Krieger barrel that has been hand-lapped from Krieger can benefit from some judicious fire-lapping. The first bore-scope pic below is from the leade of one of my brand-new Krieger barrels prior to firing. As you can see in the pic, there are tooling marks on the lands in the leade running perpendicular to the bore direction. The barrel won't shoot to its potential until those tool marks have been removed.



https://app.box.com/shared/static/xw1pctrgrx0vha0gdsj8j7dkdtijqhyp.jpg



The next bore-scope pic shows the same barrel after I conducted a short break-in procedure. The tooling marks on the lands in the leade are completely gone.




https://app.box.com/shared/static/2koe5zz4o1js1g3t0a3l28z8q75s7zld.jpg



....

[Onyx Z]

Even a single-point cut-rifling Krieger barrel that has been hand-lapped from Krieger can benefit from some judicious fire-lapping. The first bore-scope pic below is from the leade of one of my brand-new Krieger barrels prior to firing. As you can see in the pic, there are tooling marks on the lands in the leade running perpendicular to the bore direction. The barrel won't shoot to its potential until those tool marks have been removed.

https://app.box.com/shared/static/xw1pctrgrx0vha0gdsj8j7dkdtijqhyp.jpg

The next bore-scope pic shows the same barrel after I conducted a short break-in procedure. The tooling marks on the lands in the leade are completely gone.

https://app.box.com/shared/static/2koe5zz4o1js1g3t0a3l28z8q75s7zld.jpg

....

I've always thought a break-in was kind of a moot point. This clearly shows otherwise.

What procedure do you use?