DMR Scope

[Lyapunov]

Yes, I know this has been hashed to death, but I want to know if I missed any options with all the new stuff coming out. Would appreciate comments from you guys.

Background
I sold my 6920 with a Vortex 2.5-10x32 FFP so I can build an SPR-ish rifle. It'll have an 18" BHW light profile tube, with everything on paper around 7lb unloaded and no sights. I'll be using an RMR atop a 3-9 range scope; yes, I prefer this over the 1-x scopes. I'll use it for everything from high power type shooting (not service-rifle legal, but good for me to build skills) to run-n-gun (yes, I know I'm in open division, but I don't care). I mostly shoot unsupported, so this is not a bench or prone gun.


Requirements

3-9x power: I rarely dial up more than 8x. I shoot the 600yd man sized silhouette at 5x. However, having a 9x option is nice
SFP: Having used FFP, I found it un-useable below 5x. At the 100yd reduced course of fire, I have trouble finding the fine crosshairs within the 6" bull. With SFP, I'm thinking if I need to range at lower power, I can range at 5x (assume max is 10x) and divide by 2. I've never ranged much with my current scope and I never use holdovers, preferring to dial it in. However, I don't mind FFP either.
Mil Reticle: I like dividing things by 10.
Mil Exposed Turrets: I would love the locking exposed turrets, but haven't found any in the range of what I'm looking for. My big gripe about the Vortex 2.5-10 is that the turrets are honking tall and blocks a small part of the RMR view window. I like to put the RMR at the 12 o'clock position.
~40mm Front Objective: I found the 32mm front objective enough at 10x under bright daylight, but it still has a small eyebox under the best conditions. Twilight leaves much to be desired. I'm thinking 40mm would give me more leeway.
Parallax Adjustment: Gives me one less thing to screw up.
Optional Illumination: Don't need daylight bright illum because of the RMR, so the only time I would use illum would be twilight but I don't do that a lot.
Good Glass: Vortex is good enough for the price at low power. But I hate the purple tinge at higher power and the resolution isn't as good as I want. I use Leica and Schneider glass in the camera world, so I'm spoiled and used to the sticker shock of good glass.
Weight/Size: I'm trying to keep the fully kitted rifle ~10lb, so ~20oz would be my goal for the scope. The shorter scope the better as it puts the weight closer in. However, these criteria are secondary.




Candidates
Listed in the order of preference.

March 3-24x42
Looks impressive on paper. Do you guys have hands on experience?

Bushnell LRHS 3-12x44
Added to the list per comments. Getting a bit heavy thou.

Nightforce 2.5-10x42
Fits my requirements practically to a T. How is the glass?

Leupold Mk4 LRT 3.5-10x40 FFP M5
Heard mixed things about Leupy, not sure if it is worth it vs. NF? Also, are the M5 turrets honking big?

IOR 2.5-10x42
The tunneling at the low end gives me pause. I've never looked thru one, how bad is it (can you give a %)? Also the lack of parallax adjustment is disappointing.

IOR 2-12x36
Front objective smaller than I desire. Lacks the parallax adjustment I want. Also, the 3mm exit pupil is smaller than desired at the 12x for ranging. This scope has a lot of things going against it for me.

Meopta 1.7-10x42
I know Meopta has good glass, but the capped turrets and lack of BCD/mil reticle is kind of a deal killer.

Trijicon Accupoint 2-12x42
The SFP at 12x means I have to deal with a small exit pupil to range again, same gripe I have with my Vortex at 10x. The lack of exposed turrets doesn't make me happy either.

[SomeOtherGuy]

The Nightforce fits your requirements and is likely better than the others if you're willing to spend what it costs. I handled one for a while. I was not impressed with the illumination (brightness or evenness) on the IHR reticle, nor with the one button control, but it worked somewhat. I've had better illumination on past full size NXS models I owned, and I would have preferred the older style rotary dial control (on the NXS compact) vs. this new Digillum button. Glass seemed very good and construction was typical Nightforce (solid).

If you don't need illumination, I would take the Bushnell LRHS 3-12x44mm over that Nightforce any day. To my eyes the glass is better, I prefer the controls, and it has a 44mm objective that allows plenty of exit pupil at both 12x and 10x. Construction quality seems comparable to the Nightforce - yes, believe it or not if you aren't familiar with Bushnell's current top line of scopes. It also offers a 10 mil exposed elevation turret with zero stop and a covered windage turret, a good combination. It's comparable to the Nightforce in size and weight. They run in the $1200 or less range depending what kind of deal you can find.

[henschman]

They are lower end than most you listed, but the Leupold Mark AR Mod 1 and VX-R Patrol models with the SPR reticle both fit all your criteria. I have the Mark AR Mod 1 on my new 6.8 hunting rifle/DMR. I haven't had it out in the field yet.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Another lower priced option that fits your criteria is the SWFA SS 3-9x42. These sell for $599 and are very basic, but well made and have a much wider field of view than most competing scopes below $1500. Very solid basic scope. Still, if your budget is large I would focus on the LRHS, it's an absolutely awesome scope for somewhat less money than the Nightforce. (BTW, the LRHS is a first focal plane scope, as is the SWFA SS.)

[NongShim]

Leupold produces great scopes. High quality glass and very durable.

Nightforce makes great stuff too, but I have always preferred Leupold.

I will also second the motion to consider Bushnell. Their upper echelon scopes are wonderful.

[Lyapunov]

I'll add Bushnell to the list. I kind-of wrote them off because their lower end stuff is... less than impressive. The LRHS is getting to the upper end of the weight I'm willing to tolerate thou.

I've looked thru the Luppy AR and VXR scopes, and to me, their glass is ok for what it costs. If I were to go that route, I would just stay with the Vortex 2.5-10x32.

The SWFA SS 3-9 is pretty attractive except for the lack of parallax and honking huge turrets...



Have you guys tried the March 3-24x42? I don't need the huge zoom range, and I know FOV isn't the best at the low end, but they use ED glass and presumably the same glass supplier as Nikon/Canon since it is mfg in Japan?

[cbx]

Leupold patrol VXR 3-9. Has everything you want. Good price, low weight in illuminated category. Plus you can run lumina covers.

[SomeOtherGuy]

The SWFA SS 3-9 is pretty attractive except for the lack of parallax and honking huge turrets...

The lack of adjustable parallax doesn't matter (much) in this magnification range - unless you want to shoot at high magnification closer in than 75 yards or so. If you use 3-4x close in and higher magnification at 100+, there is no issue. I was just using one of mine today at 25 and 200. Also the turrets are not especially big, and no bigger than those on a Vortex Viper PST.


Have you guys tried the March 3-24x42? I don't need the huge zoom range, and I know FOV isn't the best at the low end, but they use ED glass and presumably the same glass supplier as Nikon/Canon since it is mfg in Japan?

Haven't used one. You will find reviews of March scopes mostly on Accurate Shooter and Sniper's Hide. I'm sure the glass is very good but assuming it's the same as Nikon/Canon is not necessarily correct nor important. There have been in depth discussions of scope glass on Sniper's Hide recently. The long and short is that various companies are capable of producing great glass if given the specifications and budget to do so, and that those same companies will happily produce aquarium glass if that's all the specs require and budget allows.

[BobinNC]

I'll second the recommendation of the SWFA 3-9x42mm. PA is not needed, and the turrets don't seem too large. Here's mine on a Rem 700 .223 with sun-shade and BC caps attached.

33503

[Lyapunov]

It really is a hard choice, because I'm not finding much that fits the $1-2k range and represents a significant upgrade. Once I hit the $2k price mark, then I'm in Euro glass range and that opens up a huge field of possibilities. But $2k buys a LOT of ammo. :D

So in the $1k-ish range, we have:
Vortex 2.5-10x32
Leupold VX6 2-12x42
IOR 2.5-10x42
SWFA SS 3-9x42
Bushnell LRHS 3-12x44

Looking thru the Vortex 2.5-10x32FFP again under midday sun, the image quality is pretty dang good for the price. The overall contrast is lower than the naked eye and the image seems cooler (more blue). My biggest gripe is that starting around 7x, I can really see purple fringing and the contrast goes way down although the image stays bright and sharp. For ringing steel out to 1k (optimistic for even a 77gr), it is perfectly serviceable. But the optical quality can certainly be better, and I want to see how much I have to pay to get that "better"

How good is the IOR glass? I hear ravings about it, but can someone with experience chime in? Given I'll be running an RMR atop the scope, I can certainly treat it as a 4-10x to avoid the tunneling. The reticle is pretty neat and I like it a lot. Are the turrets as stiff as the Vortex? The lack of zero stop can be overcome by taping off the marks below the zero point.

The VX6 fits lots of my requirements, except ranging at 12x is going to be a PITA, especially if unsupported. I'm sure it'll make for a good scope for shooting known distances, but I want more than that. I've also read the glass on the VX6 is pretty good. I've used the Vortex reticle at 6x to help a friend post target at the correct distance in the desert, and I was sold on the importance of a good reticle. Because of that, VX6 is pretty low on my list despite its other attributes.

Can you guys give me a rundown on the SWFA glass quality? How is the contrast and if purple fringing exists?

The Bushnell is a pretty solid choice. In comparison to the IOR "4"-10x42, I would be trading the parallax adjustment (and zero stop turrets) for an illuminated reticle. How does the glass compare between the two?


My gripe about tall turrets is that it blocks part of the RMR window. I'm sure I can rotate it to the 2o'clock position, but I like it at 12 better.

[SomeOtherGuy]

It really is a hard choice, because I'm not finding much that fits the $1-2k range and represents a significant upgrade. Once I hit the $2k price mark, then I'm in Euro glass range and that opens up a huge field of possibilities. But $2k buys a LOT of ammo. :D

Having tried out a lot of scopes in the last few years, I have come to think that the scopes around $1k are often the best value, being good enough in terms of glass, adjustments and durability, generally giving up only slight resolution and some gee-whiz features to the really high end stuff. YMMV and I would be quicker to spend major cash on a high magnification scope for a heavy recoiling rifle than for something in this intermediate range.



So in the $1k-ish range, we have:
Vortex 2.5-10x32
Leupold VX6 2-12x42
IOR 2.5-10x42
SWFA SS 3-9x42
Bushnell LRHS 3-12x44

I think you can scratch the VX-6 right now, as it's very much a hunter focused scope and I don't think you'll be happy with its SFP reticle or construction quality. It does however offer nice glass and wide FOV.


Can you guys give me a rundown on the SWFA glass quality? How is the contrast and if purple fringing exists?

The Bushnell is a pretty solid choice. In comparison to the IOR "4"-10x42, I would be trading the parallax adjustment (and zero stop turrets) for an illuminated reticle. How does the glass compare between the two?

I've never used an IOR so I can't compare directly. The SWFA 3-9x has glass that is really good, but doesn't massage your eyes in the way some makes do; it doesn't instantly scream "I am awesome glass" the way that, say, a Steiner Military does, but when you use it some and try to find defects in the glass, you generally don't. It has some tunneling below 4x, but very wide FOV from 4x through 9x. I don't notice any fringing or chromatic aberration when I'm using it, nor any other specific optical defects. I think its resolution is less than some other scopes I have, but I haven't done scientific testing and may be wrong about that.

The Bushnell LRHS has absolutely awesome glass. It's probably tied with or maybe even better than my Steiner Military, probably better than my Vortex Razor 5-20x, better to my eyes (not scientific) than two Nightforce NXS's I've owned, and quite a bit better than the Bushnell DMR and ERS which have very good glass in their own right. From what I've read, George Gardner's goal with the LRHS was to exceed the standard of Swarovski for high end hunting scopes. I've never owned a Swaro but the LRHS has very impressive glass. I've used it in competition on a precision bolt action out to 600 yards and done very well, with the scope not holding me back at all.

FYI, the LRHS was originally a $1500 scope but I've seen them slightly below $1k last summer. Amazon has OK prices on them and is at $1089 at the moment. Also, the SWFA is normally $599 but sometimes appears on the SWFA "Sample List" at $499 or so.

[GH41]

"My gripe about tall turrets is that it blocks part of the RMR window. I'm sure I can rotate it to the 2o'clock position, but I like it at 12 better"

Have you thought about mounting the RMR on an offset mount off of the receiver and learn to rotate the rifle? Maybe it's just me but I never understood why you would want to lift your head to use the close range sight.

[ccoker]

LRHS is a great scope.. they knocked a home run, and I have ran the 2.5-10x42 NSX as well.
Here is the LRHS out to 600 yards on my AR10.
It is running a Mark 6 3-19 illuminated TMR now but I was VERY content with the LRHS.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJQLYHJzad4

[PatrioticDisorder]

Why not just buy a Nightforce NXS Compact 2.5-10x32 and be done with it, not much to think about here IMO, unless like you say you want to spend over 2k, then I'd start looking at the Leupy M6 3-18 scopes (and of course they are FFP, you stated you want SFP).