View Full Version : Boyle column: What it's like to carry a loaded gun
Amp Mangum
05-31-15, 11:18
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/local/2015/05/30/boyle-column-like-carry-loaded-gun/28212527/
Quote from the article:
"For my part, I don't see myself continuing to walk into Subway or go grocery shopping with a loaded .25-caliber pistol in my front pocket, or my .357 magnum on my hip.
It just seems like it would lead to way more problems than it would solve.
I'm glad to have the permit, should I ever feel the need to carry frequently, but for now, I think I'm going to stick with the pepper spray."
What he doesn't understand is that he doesn't get to decide when he will need his concealed firearm to defend himself or his loved ones, the bad guy does.
What he doesn't understand is that he doesn't get to decide when he will need his concealed firearm to defend himself or his loved ones, the bad guy does.
Bingo!
What a lot of people don't understand is that some lifestyles in some locations of the country make the likelihood of an armed encounter so vastly low that the downside of carrying a gun substantially outweighs the upside.
One does have to think honestly about themselves, and realize one's own individual limitations.
If one chooses to carry, and something happens, emotions will always enter into choosing the proper response. One must truly look into the mirror objectively, concerning what one knows about oneself, and rehearse different situations in one's mind regularly if the choice is made to carry. With this being said, when a situation arises one may make the right choices. As we have seen, even trained police officers don't always choose the right response.
For those who choose to carry, make sure the weapon of choice is always concealed, in order to avoid preventable negative situations.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/local/2015/05/30/boyle-column-like-carry-loaded-gun/28212527/
Quote from the article:
"For my part, I don't see myself continuing to walk into Subway or go grocery shopping with a loaded .25-caliber pistol in my front pocket, or my .357 magnum on my hip.
It just seems like it would lead to way more problems than it would solve.
I'm glad to have the permit, should I ever feel the need to carry frequently, but for now, I think I'm going to stick with the pepper spray."
What he doesn't understand is that he doesn't get to decide when he will need his concealed firearm to defend himself or his loved ones, the bad guy does.
Meh, if he does not feel up to it, he shouldn't do it. I support his right 100% to not CCW because he feels "...it would lead to way more problems than it would solve" as long as he supports my right to do so. Now, if his position is no one else should be able to CCW regularly because it "would lead to way more problems than it would solve" then we have a problem and the data clearly shows otherwise.
It's really not that bad an article as gun related articles written by a person who obviously knows little about the topic and is new to it.
Eurodriver
05-31-15, 13:51
Meh, if he does not feel up to it, he shouldn't do it. I support his right 100% to not CCW because he feels "...it would lead to way more problems than it would solve" as long as he supports my right to do so. Now, if his position is no one else should be able to CCW regularly because it "would lead to way more problems than it would solve" then we have a problem and the data clearly shows otherwise.
What a lot of people don't understand is that some lifestyles in some locations of the country make the likelihood of an armed encounter so vastly low that the downside of carrying a gun substantially outweighs the upside.
Good posts.
One does have to think honestly about themselves, and realize one's own individual limitations.
If one chooses to carry, and something happens, emotions will always enter into choosing the proper response. One must truly look into the mirror objectively, concerning what one knows about oneself, and rehearse different situations in one's mind regularly if the choice is made to carry. With this being said, when a situation arises one may make the right choices. As we have seen, even trained police officers don't always choose the right response.
Personally, I have no problem with the concept of using deadly force to protect my life of the life of others, and I train for that possibility as much as any civilian here and probably more than most police officers. Naturally, like 99.999 percent of people here, I have no way of knowing my actual response since I've never had the situation arise and the likelihood that it ever will is extraordinarily low. I do know that carrying a gun in my typical daily life can be very inconvenient, and that the need to do so is very low. So I don't. Usually. It has nothing to do with emotional comfort, it's more a matter of my life plan of trying to eliminate as many pains-in-the-ass as I can.
What a lot of people don't understand is that some lifestyles in some locations of the country make the likelihood of an armed encounter so vastly low that the downside of carrying a gun substantially outweighs the upside.
I agree, but tend to view it from the opposite direction. The downsides so low, and the upsides so high (regardless of actual risk) I can't see a reason not to. However, I fully support anyone who views it from other perspective as long as they support this Rights (capital R) of either to approach is they see fit, as I know you do obviously.
For some, such say CCW to work where it's not permitted per policy, and living and working in an area where the risks of armed encounter so vastly low, the loss of the job (for example) could outweigh the upsides, and so forth.
I suppose one could say the same about wearing a NASCAR-type helmet every time you get in your car, since the odds of being killed by head trauma in an MVA so vastly exceed the risk of a deadly force encounter. Low downside, bigger potential upside than CCW.
I suppose one could say the same about wearing a NASCAR-type helmet every time you get in your car, since the odds of being killed by head trauma in an MVA so vastly exceed the risk of a deadly force encounter. Low downside, bigger potential upside than CCW.
Don't give the 'gubment any ideas man. Legally mandated NASCAR-type helmet is not far off the way we are going. But in all seriousness, everyone has to make their own risk/benefit assessment and act accordingly. I tend to take the better to have it and not needed vs need it and not have it approach where applicable/legal.
I tend to take the better to have it and not needed vs need it and not have it approach where applicable/legal.
This ^^^. Both points of view are valid - to carry or not to carry. We each have to decide. To each his own.
But what was said in the OP ("What he doesn't understand is that he doesn't get to decide when he will need his concealed firearm to defend himself or his loved ones, the bad guy does.") is still true, which is why I am in the better to have it and not need it camp.
Don't give the 'gubment any ideas man. Legally mandated NASCAR-type helmet is not far off the way we are going. But in all seriousness, everyone has to make their own risk/benefit assessment and act accordingly. I tend to take the better to have it and not needed vs need it and not have it approach where applicable/legal.
I would generally agree with that statement, but where it falls down is the circumstance wherein it might not be better to have it. e.g some work environments, situations where you have to leave it in your car, traveling with it to some states, increased risk of theft, etc. It is indeed a daily risk/benefit assessment. I am inclined to carry when outside of my little slice of heaven here, even the "big city" 16 miles down the road (especially if going to WalMart), or trips to the Twin Cities. The problem is, if going to Minneapolis for work, now I gotta figure out where to securely store it while in my doctor/administrator/academician role and the various meetings where, in my grown-up clothes and in my grown-up role, and dealing with the types of people I typically deal with, carrying a firearm and having it accidentally noticed imposes a whole different level of perception about who and what I am....and one that tends to be counterproductive to the image I have to portray in order to be taken seriously. If the risk was high, I wouldn't care. But, it's not, and the reality of secure storage when on the road is always on my mind.
And I do know that carrying a gun while wearing scrubs all day is inconvenient. Interestingly, the hospital where I work is pretty indifferent to doctors carrying guns, and even provides acceptably secure storage for those that so choose. And this is Minnesota, not Texas.
I would generally agree with that statement, but where it falls down is the circumstance wherein it might not be better to have it. e.g some work environments, situations where you have to leave it in your car, traveling with it to some states, increased risk of theft, etc. It is indeed a daily risk/benefit assessment. I am inclined to carry when outside of my little slice of heaven here, even the "big city" 16 miles down the road (especially if going to WalMart), or trips to the Twin Cities. The problem is, if going to Minneapolis for work, now I gotta figure out where to securely store it while in my doctor/administrator/academician role and the various meetings where, in my grown-up clothes and in my grown-up role, and dealing with the types of people I typically deal with, carrying a firearm and having it accidentally noticed imposes a whole different level of perception about who and what I am....and one that tends to be counterproductive to the image I have to portray in order to be taken seriously. If the risk was high, I wouldn't care. But, it's not, and the reality of secure storage when on the road is always on my mind.
And I do know that carrying a gun while wearing scrubs all day is inconvenient. Interestingly, the hospital where I work is pretty indifferent to doctors carrying guns, and even provides acceptably secure storage for those that so choose. And this is Minnesota, not Texas.
Impressive! How it should be for all nut magnet locals such as schools, hospitals, malls etc. At the very least they should be indifferent to it, if not supportive of those legally able to CCW, but that's dream land I know.
It's just a WAG but the percentage of CHL holders who truly EDC is likely very low, say below 10%. Like the previous poster, I rarely carry in my rural (Texas) hometown but absolutely do when going to any larger city. Houston gives me the willies! A M249 would be about right there.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-31-15, 16:48
I dream of being an old man in my death bed and my only regret is that all the effort put into gun training and CCW was a waste. That would be a good life.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-31-15, 16:52
It's just a WAG but the percentage of CHL holders who truly EDC is likely very low, say below 10%. Like the previous poster, I rarely carry in my rural (Texas) hometown but absolutely do when going to any larger city. Houston gives me the willies! A M249 would be about right there.
Funny, when I go out of the city I take my Noveske and a spare M&P.... Inner city people I can read, Rocky Mountain hillbillies are opaque to me.
LOL! Suppose that whatever you are familiar with change can be unsettling.
LOL! Suppose that whatever you are familiar with change can be unsettling.
And familiarity is what will get you killed...
I would generally agree with that statement, but where it falls down is the circumstance wherein it might not be better to have it. e.g some work environments, situations where you have to leave it in your car, traveling with it to some states, increased risk of theft, etc. It is indeed a daily risk/benefit assessment. I am inclined to carry when outside of my little slice of heaven here, even the "big city" 16 miles down the road (especially if going to WalMart), or trips to the Twin Cities. The problem is, if going to Minneapolis for work, now I gotta figure out where to securely store it while in my doctor/administrator/academician role and the various meetings where, in my grown-up clothes and in my grown-up role, and dealing with the types of people I typically deal with, carrying a firearm and having it accidentally noticed imposes a whole different level of perception about who and what I am....and one that tends to be counterproductive to the image I have to portray in order to be taken seriously. If the risk was high, I wouldn't care. But, it's not, and the reality of secure storage when on the road is always on my mind.
And I do know that carrying a gun while wearing scrubs all day is inconvenient. Interestingly, the hospital where I work is pretty indifferent to doctors carrying guns, and even provides acceptably secure storage for those that so choose. And this is Minnesota, not Texas.
Just a perk for MDs or hospital employees?
Moose-Knuckle
06-01-15, 00:15
If a guy has the mindset that he shouldn't carry because "it would lead to way more problems than it would solve" then this is they same guy who shouldn't drink adult beverages, drive on the freeway, etc. as he comes across as an individual who has a problem with self control. Some people just can't handle this thing we call freedom.
Please don't impose your stupidity on the rest of us.
Moose-Knuckle
06-01-15, 00:20
It's just a WAG but the percentage of CHL holders who truly EDC is likely very low, say below 10%. Like the previous poster, I rarely carry in my rural (Texas) hometown but absolutely do when going to any larger city.
This is alien to me.
I CCW when I place the trash cans by the curb or check the mail and I live in one of the safest cities in CONUS according to the DOJ. I feel naked without a G19, spare mag, and a blade.
Just a perk for MDs or hospital employees?
Not sure. I think employees are prohibited.
Not sure. I think employees are prohibited.
Nice.....
wildcard600
06-01-15, 07:35
It's just a WAG but the percentage of CHL holders who truly EDC is likely very low, say below 10%. Like the previous poster, I rarely carry in my rural (Texas) hometown but absolutely do when going to any larger city. Houston gives me the willies! A M249 would be about right there.
For some EDC is an impossibilty. Even if i had a CHL firearms are not allowed at my work or even on the property, so i cant even have anything in the car. If shit were getting real i would ignore the rule and have a vehicle gun anyway but as HMC pointed out the odds of a deadly encounter in my area is so low the risks outweigh the benefit for me.
Some of you guys are lucky to have carrers and lifestyles that allow you to have the benefit of being armed at all times, but for what is likely the majority of "armed america" EDC is unfortunately not possible.
This is alien to me.
I CCW when I place the trash cans by the curb or check the mail and I live in one of the safest cities in CONUS according to the DOJ. I feel naked without a G19, spare mag, and a blade.
This. It doesn't matter where you are, or how close to defense. When some meth head comes around the corner, needing a fix and out of money, you might not have time to go get it. When out of work I keep some thing on me or within reach.
I've talked to people who feel good about having a ccw permit, but have never carried, like the card is going the shield them or something. It's absurd.
Averageman
06-01-15, 08:00
This. It doesn't matter where you are, or how close to defense. When some meth head comes around the corner, needing a fix and out of money, you might not have time to go get it. When out of work I keep some thing on me or within reach.
I've talked to people who feel good about having a ccw permit, but have never carried, like the card is going the shield them or something. It's absurd.
I was working on a pistol, sitting at the very desk I'm writing this posting from now, when my door bell rang.
I answered the door by going through the garage and speaking to the young guy at the door from my front yard. All it took was about 5 seconds and I knew I was dealing with a Meth head. I politely told him I was not interested, but felt I was more being cased for a burglary than being offered whatever he was "selling." He moved off to the neighbors and I went in the house and cased my pistol and got in the truck and was off to the range.
I got to the end of the block and did two quick lefts because "something didn't feel right." Yep Mr Crankbug was peeking in my windows when I pulled up behind him from the street.
You don't get to pick and choose when something bad will happen to you or your property. The Author had every right to carry or not, but he cannot predict the actions of others or the effect those actions might have on his loved ones.
Nice.....
As a state institution (district hospital with taxing authority), they are prohibited by state law from disallowing guns on the premises for the public, and that would include non-employed doctors. Employees, however, can be prohibited as a condition of employment. I don't know if they actually are, but I'd be surprised if the hospital's liability carrier allowed it, as is true of most places. Most of the physicians aren't employees, however. They fall under Medical Staff regulations, and the Medical Staff has elected to not address the issue either for or against.
I CCW when I place the trash cans by the curb or check the mail and I live in one of the safest cities in CONUS according to the DOJ. I feel naked without a G19, spare mag, and a blade.
This is alien to me.
Impressive! How it should be for all nut magnet locals such as schools, hospitals, malls etc. At the very least they should be indifferent to it, if not supportive of those legally able to CCW, but that's dream land I know.
I agree wholeheartedly. The EMS/Hospital I work for has a strict no weapons policy and it wasn't until Indiana passed the law saying employers were NOT allowed to keep an employee from keeping a firearm locked in his/her vehicle on company property that they changed to allow it.
That said, local Police have setup an ERT team for things such as school shootings and what not that would require EMS response as well. I am now the only medic in the county allowed to keep a side arm in a separate go bag while on duty. I also have a low profile slick plate carrier and an extra mag and mag holder as I will be the last in the stack when going into a school or the local walmart or larger grocery store in such an event. I'll be doing triage as I go thru with the ERT team and the sidearm is strictly for my own protection, not to be used as part of a entry team. I stay behind and triage victims as the team clears in front of me. Once we move far enough in I radio for the other medics to come in and start treating and or moving patients. Reason I was chosen for this is because the local Sheriff and Police Dept know how much training I seek out on my own combined with how much competitive shooting I do.
It took a lot of convincing (and live demonstration of showing that sadly, I had more training under my belt than the LEO's on the team....) to get the Hospital to allow this.
I agree wholeheartedly. The EMS/Hospital I work for has a strict no weapons policy and it wasn't until Indiana passed the law saying employers were NOT allowed to keep an employee from keeping a firearm locked in his/her vehicle on company property that they changed to allow it.
That said, local Police have setup an ERT team for things such as school shootings and what not that would require EMS response as well. I am now the only medic in the county allowed to keep a side arm in a separate go bag while on duty. I also have a low profile slick plate carrier and an extra mag and mag holder as I will be the last in the stack when going into a school or the local walmart or larger grocery store in such an event. I'll be doing triage as I go thru with the ERT team and the sidearm is strictly for my own protection, not to be used as part of a entry team. I stay behind and triage victims as the team clears in front of me. Once we move far enough in I radio for the other medics to come in and start treating and or moving patients. Reason I was chosen for this is because the local Sheriff and Police Dept know how much training I seek out on my own combined with how much competitive shooting I do.
It took a lot of convincing (and live demonstration of showing that sadly, I had more training under my belt than the LEO's on the team....) to get the Hospital to allow this.
I know a few ER docs who have decided their lives more important then the policy or the job and CCW in a very dangerous ER, and hospital(s) situated in a high crime area of the city. It's not uncommon, and it sucks any law abiding citizen should have to go to such an extent to have the option to protect themselves and others if needed. Big city ERs can be very dangerous places and security can't be everywhere and when seconds count, are only minutes away. I know EMT/EMS often face all kinds of dangers, so it least you seem to have more options than most.
I suppose one could say the same about wearing a NASCAR-type helmet every time you get in your car, since the odds of being killed by head trauma in an MVA so vastly exceed the risk of a deadly force encounter. Low downside, bigger potential upside than CCW.
I think that anyone who wants to wear a NASCAR-type helmet on a daily basis should be allowed to do so. And without government permission.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-01-15, 10:20
I think that anyone who wants to wear a NASCAR-type helmet on a daily basis should be allowed to do so. And without government permission.
Talk about making SA easier. Stay away from people with helmets on, especially the ones who think there are headphones when there aren't....
How in the heck do you CCW in scrubs- with a shoelace as a belt? Ankle, Miami-vice style, pocket-- or are you in slacks and buttondown mostly?
Talk about making SA easier. Stay away from people with helmets on, especially the ones who think there are headphones when there aren't....
How in the heck do you CCW in scrubs- with a shoelace as a belt? Ankle, Miami-vice style, pocket-- or are you in slacks and buttondown mostly?
5.11 holster shirt
Just a perk for MDs or hospital employees?
This is one that's mystifying to me - the local teaching hospital is in a not-terrible part of town, but it's also the magnet for basically every flavor of ignorant crap (think Breaking Bad - guess where EMTs would take any patient on that show), and the Level2 security guards they have all over the place wouldn't really accomplish anything should something bad really occur... hospitals basically threatening to do their best to end the careers of MDs who would CCW in hospitals is simply asinine.
What myself and FIL are struggling with is trying to convince my better half that her life and safety are conclusively worth more any administrative consequences (he's already made that decision for himself, which has been rather helpful now that he's a contracting physician, and likely part of his logical thought process on choosing that mode of employment for his specialty)
This is one that's mystifying to me - the local teaching hospital is in a not-terrible part of town, but it's also the magnet for basically every flavor of ignorant crap (think Breaking Bad - guess where EMTs would take any patient on that show), and the Level2 security guards they have all over the place wouldn't really accomplish anything should something bad really occur... hospitals basically threatening to do their best to end the careers of MDs who would CCW in hospitals is simply asinine.
Just like any other business, different hospitals can have different corporate attitudes on a wide variety of subjects, but I can't even grasp the concept of "hospitals basically threatening to do their best to end the careers of MDs who would CCW in hospitals". I've never seen a hospital with that attitude or anything like it. That kind of silly retaliation concept might exist somewhere other than television, but I strongly doubt that it exists very commonly.
Just like any other business, different hospitals can have different corporate attitudes on a wide variety of subjects, but I can't even grasp the concept of "hospitals basically threatening to do their best to end the careers of MDs who would CCW in hospitals". I've never seen a hospital with that attitude or anything like it. That kind of silly retaliation concept might exist somewhere other than television, but I strongly doubt that it exists very commonly.
Ever worked in the NE? :sarcastic:
Ever worked in the NE? :sarcastic:
Nope. I'm just a simple midwestern boy. But I do know a lot of doctors that work out there. It's not that big a club...
Nope. I'm just a simple midwestern boy. But I do know a lot of doctors that work out there. It's not that big a club...
As you know, varies by hospital, but the docs I know here who are shooters/have CCW licenses have told me their careers would be over quickly if they chanced CCW at work, and their reputations damaged if their colleagues even knew they owned guns and didn't view them as tools of evil. etc. Much of the anti gun research that's not worth the paper it's printed on due to horrible methodology that shouldn't pass peer review (and only does because they reviewers agree gun are tools of evil and lack objectivity to referee the paper) comes from the NE. It's ground central for anti gun efforts in the US.
As you know, varies by hospital, but the docs I know here who are shooters/have CCW licenses have told me their careers would be over quickly if they chanced CCW at work, and their reputations damaged if their colleagues even knew they owned guns and didn't view them as tools of evil. etc. Much of the anti gun research that's not worth the paper it's printed on due to horrible methodology that shouldn't pass peer review (and only does because they reviewers agree gun are tools of evil and lack objectivity to referee the paper) comes from the NE. It's ground central for anti gun efforts in the US.
That is also alien to me. Even in liberal Minnesota, nobody really cares that much.
What he doesn't understand is that he doesn't get to decide when he will need his concealed firearm to defend himself or his loved ones, the bad guy does.
For over 20 years I've had fire extinguishers in my house and never ONCE had to use them. Obviously that means my house is never going to catch on fire. I think tomorrow I'll just throw them all away.
Additionally I haven't been in a car accident since high school. Clearly those seat belts are completely unnecessary. Also probably don't need homeowners insurance or health insurance since I never used it. In fact, why don't we just get rid of Obamacare...I really don't need it.
Moose-Knuckle
06-01-15, 23:32
This is alien to me.
So says the guy posting on M4C.com . . .
For over 20 years I've had fire extinguishers in my house and never ONCE had to use them. Obviously that means my house is never going to catch on fire. I think tomorrow I'll just throw them all away.
Additionally I haven't been in a car accident since high school. Clearly those seat belts are completely unnecessary. Also probably don't need homeowners insurance or health insurance since I never used it. In fact, why don't we just get rid of Obamacare...I really don't need it.
Buying and mounting a fire extinguisher in your home, snapping a seat belt which already exists in your car...those things are easy. Carrying a gun and a knife even when you go to take the trash out... that's hard, and inconvenient, and requires a commitment that many people find to be excessive and unnecessary, and one that they are unwilling to make. Especially given the relative risks...likelihood of being in a car accident vs likelihood of a being in a situation needing lethal force to resolve.
.
Buying and mounting a fire extinguisher in your home, snapping a seat belt which already exists in your car...those things are easy. Carrying a gun and a knife even when you go to take the trash out... that's hard, and inconvenient, and requires a commitment that many people find to be excessive and unnecessary, and one that they are unwilling to make. Especially given the relative risks...likelihood of being in a car accident vs likelihood of a being in a situation needing lethal force to resolve.
.
Well once upon a time when we didn't tolerate wholesale thuggery they had these things called "gun racks" which you could put in your truck. So having a gun with you was really no different than having a fire extinguisher behind the seat of your truck.
I get what you are saying, but it is only that reason because firearms have been demonized and over regulated. Carrying a gun requires no greater level of responsibility than driving a car on the interstate, it is no more cumbersome than carrying a big ass smart phone, you just don't wave them around as much.
What a lot of people don't understand is that some lifestyles in some locations of the country make the likelihood of an armed encounter so vastly low that the downside of carrying a gun substantially outweighs the upside.
When that "likelihood" gets to zero, I'll consider not carrying a gun but will probably continue to do so in the event of an alien invasion from Planet X.
Sooner or later somebody has to win the lottery, and those who think they will usually don't and those that do are usually very surprised.
If the worst thing that happens is I carry a gun for the rest of my natural life and nothing bad happens and I never need it well....then awesome.
This is alien to me.
I never get my mail without dedicated overwatch from three triangulated positions. And of course I've got a slung MP5.
Cause ya never know...
Honestly, when I lived in downtown Ft. Lauderdale I wouldn't go out my door without a gun on me. There were several incidents where I was simply taking the garbage to the corner and "crap happened."
I never get my mail without dedicated overwatch from three triangulated positions. And of course I've got a slung MP5.
Cause ya never know...
Honestly, when I lived in downtown Ft. Lauderdale I wouldn't go out my door without a gun on me. There were several incidents where I was simply taking the garbage to the corner and "crap happened."
Fortunately for me, I've chosen to live and work in an area where that is a totally alien concept.
Moose-Knuckle
06-02-15, 04:11
I'm pretty sure Dr. Petit, his wife, and daughters thought it was alien too in their upscale neighborhood in Cheshire, CT. until Steven Hayes and Joshua Komisarjevsky decided to pay them a visit.
Cheshire, CT. home invasion, sexual assaults, and murders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders)
But I surmise it took having his 11 year old daughter raped and murdered along with his wife and teenage daughter to understand that you have to be prepared to fight for your life at the drop of a hat even in your own wealthy and safe neighborhood.
I'm pretty sure Dr. Petit, his wife, and daughters thought it was alien too in their upscale neighborhood in Cheshire, CT. until Steven Hayes and Joshua Komisarjevsky decided to pay them a visit.
Cheshire, CT. home invasion, sexual assaults, and murders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders)
But I surmise it took having his 11 year old daughter raped and murdered along with his wife and teenage daughter to understand that you have to be prepared to fight for your life at the drop of a hat even in your own wealthy and safe neighborhood.
Not really a great example since he ran away while his family was being raped and murdered. If he had a gun, I doubt he would have fought anyways. I do get what you're saying though. Bad shit happens everywhere, regardless of how nice you think your neighborhood is.
Fortunately for me, I've chosen to live and work in an area where that is a totally alien concept.
So did the Savopoulos family, or so they thought. I bet Mr. Savopoulos really, really, really wishes he was carrying at the time.
Criminals don't make appointments. Even worse they have feet. So that means they can intersect with you and your loved ones virtually any time or any where.
Not really a great example since he ran away while his family was being raped and murdered. If he had a gun, I doubt he would have fought anyways. I do get what you're saying though. Bad shit happens everywhere, regardless of how nice you think your neighborhood is.
It is as with all things, an issue of probabilities. I lived in the safest city in the US at the time (late 90s), which was Newton MA. I don't know what it's listed as currently, but it's a very wealthy place with very little serious crime. I went to my favorite fish store down the st (had a big reef tank at the time) shot the shit with the manager, and went home. Turned on the TV and saw news coverage of the fish store I had walked out of not 30-40 minutes before. A guy came into the store, shot the manager twice. Manager, wrestles the gun from the guy, puts it under his chin and blows his brains out. He then stumbles out into the street and collapses. After extensive surgery he did live. I went to visit him in the hospital.
That was the last time I used the "I'll CCW when I'm in a higher crime area" type mindset. I grew up in Brooklyn NY in the 70s, and dodged a few bullets as a kid and know what it's like to live in high crime areas, and very low. As a man of science, i tend to look at things in terms of probabilities. The probability of something like happening again are very low, and I live in a low crime area now. I calculate the potential benefits, regardless of the risk, outweigh the negatives. For some, in specific situations, that may not be the case in their estimation per docs Hmac comments. We are simply playing two ends of a probability equation and where that coin lands no one can say for sure.
I'm pretty sure Dr. Petit, his wife, and daughters thought it was alien too in their upscale neighborhood in Cheshire, CT. until Steven Hayes and Joshua Komisarjevsky decided to pay them a visit
Never mind. You were right...I've been her long enough to know better. More power to ya, bud.
Never mind. You were right...I've been her long enough to know better. More power to ya, bud.
I understand if you choose "for whatever reason" to not carry, but do you really believe "where I live" or "where I work" actually protects you from violent crime in any way, shape or form? That's a lot like me thinking because I drive a nice car I can't get in an accident, or if I avoid the interstate I'll never be in an accident.
You really have no control over criminals, where they go and if they happen to cross paths with you.
I understand if you choose "for whatever reason" to not carry, but do you really believe "where I live" or "where I work" actually protects you from violent crime in any way, shape or form? That's a lot like me thinking because I drive a nice car I can't get in an accident, or if I avoid the interstate I'll never be in an accident.
You really have no control over criminals, where they go and if they happen to cross paths with you.
I've already explained "what I really believe". You just can't accept it. I'm OK with that.
I've already explained "what I really believe". You just can't accept it. I'm OK with that.
I can accept it. In fact I can't think of a reason why I wouldn't be able to accept a personal decision made by someone else. I was simply seeking specific clarification. Surprised that anyone would really believe that, but I can certainly accept it. People believe all kinds of things.
People believe all kinds of things.
Exactly the way I see it too. With the same degree of puzzlement.
Exactly the way I see it too. With the same degree of puzzlement.
Well at risk of saying "I've already explained", I really don't find daily carry to be any more inconvenient than taking a cell phone with me. If you are puzzled by that...well..."ok." I'm sure we will both be fine.
Moose-Knuckle
06-02-15, 22:37
Never mind. You were right...I've been her long enough to know better. More power to ya, bud.
Right and wrong has nothing to do with it.
This is M4C.net, hell we have members here who EDC suppressed SBRs in their vehicles. So the fact someone CCW in their front yard shouldn't be that far of a reach. Now if this was Ford vs. Chevy.net then okay yeah I could see the membership thinking it strange for members to arm themselves while sitting the trash cans out.
L
Right and wrong has nothing to do with it.
This is M4C.net, hell we have members here who EDC suppressed SBRs in their vehicles. So the fact someone CCW in their front yard shouldn't be that far of a reach. Now if this was Ford vs. Chevy.net then okay yeah I could see the membership thinking it strange for members to arm themselves while sitting the trash cans out.
You were right, I've been here long enough to recognize the mind set, was what I meant.
wildcard600
06-03-15, 07:31
What do you guys do for work that allows 24/7 EDC ?
Averageman
06-03-15, 11:04
What do you guys do for work that allows 24/7 EDC ?
That's the puzzle for me. I actually work on a Military Post that doesn't allow EDC even though we've had a couple of very famous mass shootings.
I wish someone at DOD would come to the realization that you armed most of us for 20+ years all over the world, you know are military record, our security clearance and the serial numbers of any of the guns I bring here to shoot at the range.
It shouldn't be much of a stretch to see that some folks should be trusted to C.C. on post.
But Pigs will grow wings and fly before that happens.
Moose-Knuckle
06-03-15, 11:46
L
You were right, I've been here long enough to recognize the mind set, was what I meant.
Gottcha, thanks for the clarification. I didn't want to come across as argumentative just knew we were missing each others point somewhere.
Moose-Knuckle
06-03-15, 11:46
What do you guys do for work that allows 24/7 EDC ?
Currently in LE.
Gottcha, thanks for the clarification. I didn't want to come across as argumentative just knew we were missing each others point somewhere.
Yes. I read the papers as carefully as anyone here. I'm aware of the risks/benefits to carrying or not carrying a gun in various situations and have weighed that equation carefully.The "24/7 armed lifestyle" just doesn't suit my own lifestyle, nor my needs. I make no judgment of those who feel differently.
I do have fire extinguishers around the house and garage, I do wear seat belts, I don't wear a NASCAR-type helmet in my car. In fact, I don't always wear a helmet while on my motorcycle. Another set of risk/benefit/hassle calculations.
Yes. I read the papers as carefully as anyone here. I'm aware of the risks/benefits to carrying or not carrying a gun in various situations and have weighed that equation carefully.The "24/7 armed lifestyle" just doesn't suit my own lifestyle, nor my needs. I make no judgment of those who feel differently.
I do have fire extinguishers around the house and garage, I do wear seat belts, I don't wear a NASCAR-type helmet in my car. In fact, I don't always wear a helmet while on my motorcycle. Another set of risk/benefit/hassle calculations.
Changing topics slightly, it's always interesting to see people that make those judgements based on perceptions/emotions vs legit data/risk assessment. The person who refuses to fly but does not wear a seat belt when they drive, or the person who lives in fear of brain cancer from synthetics sweeteners and drinks a 5th of gin per week. I have had people lecture me on the dangers of owning guns while they smoked a cig.
My mother refused to wear a seat belt because when she was a kid in ME she had a friend drive off a cliff and he lived because he was thrown from the car and not wearing a seat belt. I tried to point out to her many times that was a very rare occasion where not wearing a seat belt was a + to that person, but on the balance, it was a net + plus for people to wear them.
People make their assessments of risk/benefit based on emotions and perceptions vs facts/data/objective assessment it seems.
Averageman
06-03-15, 13:49
People make their assessments of risk/benefit based on emotions and perceptions vs facts/data/objective assessment it seems.
And they legislate the same way.
Moose-Knuckle
06-05-15, 01:56
Changing topics slightly, it's always interesting to see people that make those judgements based on perceptions/emotions vs legit data/risk assessment. The person who refuses to fly but does not wear a seat belt when they drive, or the person who lives in fear of brain cancer from synthetics sweeteners and drinks a 5th of gin per week. I have had people lecture me on the dangers of owning guns while they smoked a cig.
My mother refused to wear a seat belt because when she was a kid in ME she had a friend drive off a cliff and he lived because he was thrown from the car and not wearing a seat belt. I tried to point out to her many times that was a very rare occasion where not wearing a seat belt was a + to that person, but on the balance, it was a net + plus for people to wear them.
People make their assessments of risk/benefit based on emotions and perceptions vs facts/data/objective assessment it seems.
(note the concerned mother's cigarette)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/pregnantsmoker_zpsxp7wasjd.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/pregnantsmoker_zpsxp7wasjd.jpg.html)
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