View Full Version : Vietnam LRRP loadout . . .
Moose-Knuckle
05-31-15, 23:45
I stumbled upon this tonight on Vintage Operator's Gear FB page and thought some of you would find it as cool as I did. In fact, their whole page is filled with awesomeness!
(note the para-cord pull tabs on some of the 20 rounders base plates)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/LRRP%20Loadout_zpsvwvmabct.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/LRRP%20Loadout_zpsvwvmabct.jpg.html)
Vietnam era LRRP load out:
XM117, BAR belt holding eighteen 20rd mags, M18 Claymore, V40 mini grenades, M67 Frags, smoke grenades, small ruck, 1 & 2 quart canteens, rations, pen flares and launcher, secure comms, C-4 w/ Det. cord and blasting caps, strobe light, signaling mirror, knife, 1911 Pistol, compass, watch, whistle, and extras.
Everything you need to bad things to bad people and come back home.
I had heard before that the BAR belt was a much sought after and highly coveted piece of kit with SOF personnel in Southeast Asia as they would hold 20rd M16 mags without any modification to the pouches.
Plumber237
06-01-15, 00:18
I think these pictures may have been out of a book by James Donahue, an SF medic who wrote a couple books about some of his hairier missions. Blackjack-34, which I've read, is the one that these pictures are from. I have yet to read Blackjack-33, it's on my Amazon wish list. If I remember 34's storyline, he wished he would have had even more 20 rounders in his kit...they were in a pretty big shitstorm.
Moose-Knuckle
06-01-15, 00:33
I think these pictures may have been out of a book by James Donahue, an SF medic who wrote a couple books about some of his hairier missions. Blackjack-34, which I've read, is the one that these pictures are from. I have yet to read Blackjack-33, it's on my Amazon wish list. If I remember 34's storyline, he wished he would have had even more 20 rounders in his kit...they were in a pretty big shitstorm.
I believe you are correct. I have seen the pic with the BAR belt on the Soldier in tiger stripes before. Funny thing, your post reminded me of a quote from one of our very own SME's Docsherm who also happens to be a former 18 Delta; "I have never heard anyone say after a firefight that I wish that I had not taken so much ammo."
There's a 3 book series called eye of the eagle that was really good.
While most of MACV-SOG was drawn from Army Special Forces there were some who were recruited from LRRP teams too.
There's a 3 book series called eye of the eagle that was really good.
Was it by Gary Linderer? I read his, really great stories.
SilverBullet432
06-02-15, 09:47
I want dat watch... ��
Mr.Anderson
06-02-15, 13:02
Love that Tiger Stripe
Was it by Gary Linderer? I read his, really great stories.
Yes it was.
I soooooo need a XM117. The BAR mag pouch with 20 rounders is a neat trick.
Has anyone else noticed that in the pic of the XM117 and the 20 rd. mags, there is a 30 rd. mag in the XM117?
Has anyone else noticed that in the pic of the XM117 and the 20 rd. mags, there is a 30 rd. mag in the XM117?
My best guess is they put a 30 rounder in to start and had a bunch of 20 round mags because they fit in the pouch better. Probably a case of being able to carry the same amount of ammo or more in 20 rounders than 30 rounders in the pouches available at the time.
My best guess is they put a 30 rounder in to start and had a bunch of 20 round mags because they fit in the pouch better. Probably a case of being able to carry the same amount of ammo or more in 20 rounders than 30 rounders in the pouches available at the time.
It's also my understanding that 30's were very difficult to come by at the time and highly sought after. My assumption would be that they kept it in the gun as a break contact mag.
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Considering the load necessary to do extended operations and the nature of today's battlefield and equipment, I've been wondering under what circumstances if any people decide not to use armor.
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Moose-Knuckle
06-03-15, 10:52
It's also my understanding that 30's were very difficult to come by at the time and highly sought after. My assumption would be that they kept it in the gun as a break contact mag.
This is my understanding as well. I've seen multiple pics from Vietnam of thirty round mags but they are a few and far between.
Moose-Knuckle
06-03-15, 10:56
Considering the load necessary to do extended operations and the nature of today's battlefield and equipment, I've been wondering under what circumstances if any people decide not to use armor.
Over on the Professional Soldiers board, most of the guys stated they chose to go SF because they didn't have to wear a hot and heavy steel pot helmet. Instead they could wear boonies and patrol caps.
The recon team featured in Lone Survivor did not wear armor I ass-u-me this was an accurate portrayal of the real life team.
Considering the load necessary to do extended operations and the nature of today's battlefield and equipment, I've been wondering under what circumstances if any people decide not to use armor.
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A couple guys in Somalia back in 1993.
I was thinking that the curved 30 rd. mags of those days may not have been as reliable as the straight 20 rd. mags. This is why I was surprised to see the 30 rd. mag in the picture.
I stumbled upon this tonight on Vintage Operator's Gear FB page and thought some of you would find it as cool as I did. In fact, their whole page is filled with awesomeness!
(note the para-cord pull tabs on some of the 20 rounders base plates)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/LRRP%20Loadout_zpsvwvmabct.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/LRRP%20Loadout_zpsvwvmabct.jpg.html)
I had heard before that the BAR belt was a much sought after and highly coveted piece of kit with SOF personnel in Southeast Asia as they would hold 20rd M16 mags without any modification to the pouches.
What did all that weigh? Lugging that around as an LRRP in a jungle must have been a real mother f-er.
A couple guys in Somalia back in 1993.
Sorry, not tracking.
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Cincinnatus
06-03-15, 15:00
Sorry, not tracking.
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Have you seen BlackHawk Down? The guys there made a decision not to wear their back armor.
1993 Ranger Body Armor did not have back plates.
I sat with Scott McMichael, VP for Protective Materials, Inc., and he had his guys design the back plate -- no other government involvement. He personally delivered mine to me for the (aborted) Haiti invasion in 1994, after which SOCOM bought them.
Older T.G. Faust armor had back plates, but those were issued once RBA had all been issued out.
1993 Ranger Body Armor did not have back plates.
I sat with Scott McMichael, VP for Protective Materials, Inc., and he had his guys design the back plate -- no other government involvement. He personally delivered mine to me for the (aborted) Haiti invasion in 1994, after which SOCOM bought them.
Older T.G. Faust armor had back plates, but those were issued once RBA had all been issued out.
So in the book and movie where they referenced taking out armor plates, was it the front plate that was actually removed?
So in the book and movie where they referenced taking out armor plates, was it the front plate that was actually removed?
Only one guy took out a rear plate while talking to grimes gearing up for the mission. I've always understood that they took creative liberties with the movie. In act of valour during there first op, they only have chest rigs, no plates. Problem is that these are movies so I'm hesitant to listen to them fully. I'm more curious about lrrp missions in today's world about weather or not plates are used or if they view the mobility as a better asset. I know that they are recon patrols, but the reality is that there mission was really to take the fight to the assholes deep in enemy territory. I've seen conversations about armor scaling based on threat levels and I've seen mental masterbation conversations about if we will ever really go back to not using armor under certain circumstances in the future, but extended periods out of a pack on foot makes one look at weight far more critically.
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*Supposedly* the decision to eliminate back plates cost one Ranger sergeant his life in the Blackhawk Down incident. Something along the lines of (paraphrasing) "I don't need the back plate 'cause Rangers are always facing the enemy".
If untrue please feel free to correct me.
Re when to use and not use armor.
When receiving a mission, you will go through MDMP and IPB at the battalion level (Military Decision Making Process and Intelligence Preparation of the Battlefield), or TLPs at Company and Platoon levels (Troop Leading Procedures).
As part of these you will do a mission analysis, according to METT-TC:
Mission
Enemy
Terrain and weather
Troops
Time Available
Civilian Considerations
You will develop courses of action, wargame them, compare courses of action and finally decide on a course of action.
Based on the analysis resulting from the factors under METT-TC, a commander can issue coordinating instructions covering dress code, PPE etc.
The leadership level that can dictate PPE will depend on unit, most likely, but usually not lower than Platoon Commander. This will be different in SOF.
The factors that will influence the decision can be, but not limited to:
Terrain
Temperature
Threat
Mission type
I personally feel that body armor should not be a default.
Only one guy took out a rear plate while talking to grimes gearing up for the mission. I've always understood that they took creative liberties with the movie. In act of valour during there first op, they only have chest rigs, no plates. Problem is that these are movies so I'm hesitant to listen to them fully. I'm more curious about lrrp missions in today's world about weather or not plates are used or if they view the mobility as a better asset. I know that they are recon patrols, but the reality is that there mission was really to take the fight to the assholes deep in enemy territory. I've seen conversations about armor scaling based on threat levels and I've seen mental masterbation conversations about if we will ever really go back to not using armor under certain circumstances in the future, but extended periods out of a pack on foot makes one look at weight far more critically.
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sinister pointed out that the events portrayed in the movie could not have happened because nobody had back plates yet.
But the movie alluded to it, and I'm 99% certain I read something along those lines when I read the book and was wondering if anyone involved in the BOM took out their front plate or not.
Moose-Knuckle
06-05-15, 00:14
As SGM Kyle Lamb said when asked in an interview on the Military Channel about BHD; "That was a movie". He would know as he was there.
I knew a girl in high school whose dad was a LRRP in VN; very cool guy. The tiger-stripe uni's and that load-out is vaguely reminiscent of a pic he showed me of him in VN.
Averageman
06-06-15, 10:22
I knew a girl in high school whose dad was a LRRP in VN; very cool guy. The tiger-stripe uni's and that load-out is vaguely reminiscent of a pic he showed me of him in VN.
My Boss was a two tour door gunner on gunships in V.N. He said;
"We would drop everything when those guys called, pull off a current mission to go in and extract them or provide support while they were extracted."
He's a hell of a guy and we share an office, oftentimes when something like this is posted here I like to ask his opinion. He was pretty adamant about the level of respect and how far out on a limb they were willing to go to provide all necessary support for the LRRP's.
My Boss was a two tour door gunner on gunships in V.N. He said;
"We would drop everything when those guys called, pull off a current mission to go in and extract them or provide support while they were extracted."
He's a hell of a guy and we share an office, oftentimes when something like this is posted here I like to ask his opinion. He was pretty adamant about the level of respect and how far out on a limb they were willing to go to provide all necessary support for the LRRP's.
My father was a Marine, in VN three separate times, a year each. He was an intel chief, his last VN tour with aviation, but one of the others (I don't know which) with Recon. I know the Marines and Army frequently shared the same AO, my dad said much the same in that if they called for extract he would leave the wire and man a Huey for assistance, and the Recon Marines who were around would do the same.
Ranger Body Armor did not have a back plate. T.G. Faust armor did, but was issued to make up shortfalls. General Wayne Downing briefed a few NCOs had pancake-sized bruises on their backs from AK and 7.62x54R hits wearing RBA.
Having been a LRRP, and from sniper-observer and recce teams since 9-11 the decision to wear or even carry body armor is based on METT-T and the enemy's most dangerous and most likely courses of action.
If you're in the strategic recon and tac recce roles the point is to try not to be compromised. Different terrain and climate are also going to determine how mobile you are as well as mission duration.
Composite LRRP teams (a US SF team leader and RTO, with three to five indigenous troops) were different than all-US teams (typically from US divisions).
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a540/TeddyBhoy/1RangersArmorBlack_zps78875dcc.jpg
Nightstalker865
06-06-15, 21:24
Current LRS teams stay as light and fast as possible.
Cool to see some of the old stuff!
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Current LRS teams stay as light and fast as possible.
Cool to see some of the old stuff!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Depends on leadership, I worked with the LRS guys out of Bragg and they were as described, they got replaced by their hommies from Hood who looked like they just stepped out of 670-1. Their Facebook pages tell the story, the Bragg guys are out roping and MFFing and the Hood page is making announcements about whether or not they can wear Airborne tabs. I think they finally scrapped the being under a cav squadron under a BfsB (MI) Brigade though.
These LRRP dudes were some serious badasses. Long-ass missions, far from any supporting elements, hot, humid jungle full of alien poisonous critters (insect and otherwise, lol), + heavy loadout.
And that tiger stripe is awesome.
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