View Full Version : "Trauma pad" vs level IIIA pad?
meatwaggon
06-02-15, 05:36
Does a IIIA pad provide as much "trauma" protection as a cheap trauma pad, or is there something special about a "trauma pad"? Note that I am not asking if trauma pads provide any ballistic protection; I know they don't. My thought is that if I'm going to spend extra weight in adding a trauma pad to protect against back face deformation from a level III hard plate, couldn't I just sub in a IIIA pad instead and add extra trauma AND ballistic protection? Or do IIIA pads not provide any trauma protection?
Does a IIIA pad provide as much "trauma" protection as a cheap trauma pad, or is there something special about a "trauma pad"? Note that I am not asking if trauma pads provide any ballistic protection; I know they don't. My thought is that if I'm going to spend extra weight in adding a trauma pad to protect against back face deformation from a level III hard plate, couldn't I just sub in a IIIA pad instead and add extra trauma AND ballistic protection? Or do IIIA pads not provide any trauma protection?
What?
You want to protect against backface trauma behind a Level III stand alone plate?
"Trauma packs" are ballistic scrap that make people feel better unless they have independent testing/ratings done on them. The freebee soft packs that come with your armor are just leftover ballistic material. Any vest provides "trauma protection"... that's how it catches bullets within acceptable trauma limits set by the NIJ (or DEA or FBI, depending on the protocol they're testing to).
What plate (specifically) are you talking about, and why are you worried about trauma behind hard armor?
meatwaggon
06-04-15, 14:48
What?
You want to protect against backface trauma behind a Level III stand alone plate?
"Trauma packs" are ballistic scrap that make people feel better unless they have independent testing/ratings done on them. The freebee soft packs that come with your armor are just leftover ballistic material. Any vest provides "trauma protection"... that's how it catches bullets within acceptable trauma limits set by the NIJ (or DEA or FBI, depending on the protocol they're testing to).
What plate (specifically) are you talking about, and why are you worried about trauma behind hard armor?
It sounds like you do not have the information to help me, but yes, I'm referring to protecting against backface deformation of a level III stand-alone hard plate. Clearly you don't think it happens, but I invite you to look on Youtube and see with your own eyes. When backface deformation happens against soft tissue, like your abdominal fat, you'll likely get nothing more than a welt. When it happens against a rib, you could get a rib fracture. And that is why I ask about trauma pads vs IIIA pads behind level III plates.
It sounds like you do not have the information to help me, but yes, I'm referring to protecting against backface deformation of a level III stand-alone hard plate. Clearly you don't think it happens, but I invite you to look on Youtube and see with your own eyes. When backface deformation happens against soft tissue, like your abdominal fat, you'll likely get nothing more than a welt. When it happens against a rib, you could get a rib fracture. And that is why I ask about trauma pads vs IIIA pads behind level III plates.
Lol, I sell armor for a living and I'm pretty good at it. I've personally shot level III plates myself, I don't need to go on YouTube.
What's your application and why are you concerned so much about it?
A 5.56mm hit does almost nothing to the backface on a SA3 poly plate. .308 will crater it pretty well, but if you are catching .308 on your chest you need to be glad your plate stopped it.
Fractured ribs are par for the course with armor saves... You don't get to stop over a thousand foot pounds on energy in a split second across an inch or so of material without incurring trauma.
If you don't want backface, look at ceramic based plates.
What's your mission?
Have you ever worn plates before?
meatwaggon
06-04-15, 16:10
Lol, I sell armor for a living and I'm pretty good at it. I've personally shot level III plates myself, I don't need to go on YouTube.
What's your application and why are you concerned so much about it?
A 5.56mm hit does almost nothing to the backface on a SA3 poly plate. .308 will crater it pretty well, but if you are catching .308 on your chest you need to be glad your plate stopped it.
Fractured ribs are par for the course with armor saves... You don't get to stop over a thousand foot pounds on energy in a split second across an inch or so of material without incurring trauma.
If you don't want backface, look at ceramic based plates.
What's your mission?
Have you ever worn plates before?
The point is that I would like to be glad that my plate stopped it AND not have a welt or fracture to show for it.
And you do not automatically have to incur trauma from stopping a thousand foot pounds of energy, since the impact against your body (by nature of the armor being a hard plate) is spread out mostly over your entire chest, except for the little divot at the impact site. Again, that is why I'm asking whether in order to mitigate trauma from this backface deformation
a trauma pad is needed or a IIIA backer is acceptable, since if it is acceptable it would also provide additional ballistic protection that a trauma pad does not. It sounds like you don't know, but that's ok. Maybe somebody else does.
The point is that I would like to be glad that my plate stopped it AND not have a welt or fracture to show for it.
And you do not automatically have to incur trauma from stopping a thousand foot pounds of energy, since the impact against your body (by nature of the armor being a hard plate) is spread out mostly over your entire chest, except for the little divot at the impact site. Again, that is why I'm asking whether in order to mitigate trauma from this backface deformation
a trauma pad is needed or a IIIA backer is acceptable, since if it is acceptable it would also provide additional ballistic protection that a trauma pad does not. It sounds like you don't know, but that's ok. Maybe somebody else does.
So you've completely ignored my questions. Got it.
meatwaggon
06-04-15, 16:45
So you've completely ignored my questions. Got it.
Yes. None of your questions were relevant to my question.
Have you tried contacting the manufacturer/seller of the plate you have and asking what they recommend? Its probably a bit generic to say "What is better with some plate, some trauma pad or some IIIA pad?". Lots of plates are rated to be ICW (in conjunction with) a IIIA pad some recommend a generic trauma pad etc.
meatwaggon
06-06-15, 23:37
Have you tried contacting the manufacturer/seller of the plate you have and asking what they recommend? Its probably a bit generic to say "What is better with some plate, some trauma pad or some IIIA pad?". Lots of plates are rated to be ICW (in conjunction with) a IIIA pad some recommend a generic trauma pad etc.
I'm pretty sure I already said "stand alone" plate, meaning not ICW. And no, I haven't contacted the plate manufacturer, I just thought some people on this forum might know.
Meatwaggon, You may want to tone it down a wee bit, people are trying to help you.
Yes. None of your questions were relevant to my question.
Actually, they are, you just don't realize it.
By not eluding to your mission for the equipment no one can take your needs for bulk reduction, buoyancy, weight saving, heat retention/ breathabilty, durability, funding sources, carrier fit, or price into the equation upon making a recommendation for what products to consider.
If you want to spell out your prior experience, and intended role for these plates... then by adding that CONTEXT people can make helpful recommendations. Absent that, you're not likely to get much help in achieving whatever goal it is you have.
meatwaggon
06-09-15, 20:22
bulk reduction, buoyancy, weight saving, heat retention/ breathabilty, durability, funding sources, carrier fit, or price into the equation upon making a recommendation for what products to consider.
All of these are completely irrelevant. Can a level IIIA pad function in the same way as a trauma pad behind a level III stand-alone plate for the purpose of mitigating trauma from back face deformation, yes or no?
This is actually a very easy question to understand, and answer if you know the answer (and to skip if you don't). I did not ask about cost. I did not ask about buoyancy. Nor did I ask about heat retention. Or any of the other things you brought up. I do not need to ask about any of these things to get a straight answer to the question of whether a IIIA pad can function as a "trauma pad". Nor did I feel the need to answer the question of why, as this is also irrelevant to whether a IIIA pad can function as a trauma pad.
"CONTEXT" is relevant only if I were asking a question like "I'm trying to set up a rig for the purpose of 'x' while spending under $y and weighing in at 'z' pounds or less". But I didn't ask any of that. If you don't know, just say you don't know.
All of these are completely irrelevant. Can a level IIIA pad function in the same way as a trauma pad behind a level III stand-alone plate for the purpose of mitigating trauma from back face deformation, yes or no?
This is actually a very easy question to understand, and answer if you know the answer (and to skip if you don't). I did not ask about cost. I did not ask about buoyancy. Nor did I ask about heat retention. Or any of the other things you brought up. I do not need to ask about any of these things to get a straight answer to the question of whether a IIIA pad can function as a "trauma pad". Nor did I feel the need to answer the question of why, as this is also irrelevant to whether a IIIA pad can function as a trauma pad.
"CONTEXT" is relevant only if I were asking a question like "I'm trying to set up a rig for the purpose of 'x' while spending under $y and weighing in at 'z' pounds or less". But I didn't ask any of that. If you don't know, just say you don't know.
Soft armor is either a "panel" or a "backer", not a "pad". Calling it a "pad" only illustrates how unfamiliar you are with these products in general.
A copy of Time magazine inserted behind any ballistic will disperse trauma too, the point is that there is no testing standard for your question, so different materials haven't been evaluated and ranked based upon that performance criteria.
If you gave an application, people could weigh in with products best suited to it. But seeing as you want to keep your goals top secret, the best answer you can hope to come up with is "more stuff between you and incoming bullets is better".
meatwaggon
06-09-15, 23:18
Soft armor is either a "panel" or a "backer", not a "pad". Calling it a "pad" only illustrates how unfamiliar you are with these products in general.
A copy of Time magazine inserted behind any ballistic will disperse trauma too, the point is that there is no testing standard for your question, so different materials haven't been evaluated and ranked based upon that performance criteria.
If you gave an application, people could weigh in with products best suited to it. But seeing as you want to keep your goals top secret, the best answer you can hope to come up with is "more stuff between you and incoming bullets is better".
I'll call it a pad if I feel like it, and you and everybody else will still understand what I mean. If you want to demonstrate how fancy you are, there are other ways to do this.
If there is in fact no standard for evaluating trauma, you could have said this 5 posts ago, in which case my question would have been answered and I would have just gone with a IIIA pad, without having to know anything about buoyancy or heat retention (seriously?).
Leaveammoforme
06-10-15, 01:25
This thread just ended my voluntary vacation.
I demand cat pictures.
meatwaggon
06-10-15, 01:36
This thread just ended my voluntary vacation.
I demand cat pictures.
I am unable to comply with your request unless you are able to provide specifics on said cat, namely its heat retention capabilities, degree of buoyancy, cost, and durability. Most importantly I will need to know the mission of your cat.
Since you don't seem to take advice and want to argue with people, your thread is done.
You would accomplish much more with kind words and using correct terminology as suggested. :big_boss:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.