View Full Version : Dog Food.
Averageman
06-02-15, 19:16
I recently had to put my favorite dog down and now I'm spending a lot more time with my other dog.
I've kind of come to the conclusion that dry food and letting her eat whenever she chose to stick her nose in to the auto feeder has turned her in to a bit of a pig. After some conversations with a very successful show dog breeder I've learned a bit more about dog food.
I've given up on the auto feeder and the kibble type food and switched to cans. I supplement the canned food with raw meat such as chicken hearts, chicken livers and some chicken backs. She's losing weight and seem to be a bit healthier.
Anyone else use this method?
Side Note: That Giggle Ball they show on TV, the dog goes friggen nuts for it. I have had to take it from her twice because I thought she would have a heart attack chasing that damned thing.
Head over to leerburg.com and read up on how they feed raw. Our dog was significantly halt jet when she was fed raw. We only stopped due to lack of storage at our new home. It sucks because the she was visibly healthier on a proper raw diet.
There are many opinions on this. Most of them are founded on ignorance, superstition or emotion. I've been training dogs professionally since '91 and have maintained a kennel of dogs for most of that time. I hold several national titles in protection sports and I've had dogs my whole life. All I do is all dogs all day every day.
Here is my preference: Feed the correct amount of a good kibble twice a day. Supplement with small amounts of table scraps mixed in when you have it available.
That's it. No automatic feeders. No free feeding. No ridiculously expensive fad diets.
What is a good kibble? I've tried them all. The difference for me can be measured in vet bills, messes and hassles. The truth of the matter is that no kibble is perfect for every dog. What is "best" for one dog, might not agree with his sibling. When you have 30 dogs in a row, and you know 20 other people with 20-50 dogs in row, it gives you a pretty good sample size to draw some conclusions from. My conclusion: Overall I see the best results and fewest problems with Purina Pro-Plan. Many people will crinkle their nose at the Purina name, but I've got two generations malinois on it, and could not be happier with it. In my whole kennel we only have two dogs that are not on Pro-Plan because they are on special prescription diets. And they are the only company I know of that has not had to do any re-calls lately.
I'm not saying that a dog can't be healthy on some of the latest fad diets. I am saying that they can be healthy on a wide variety of feeding strategies. That being the case, why add extra hassles and expenses that are not needed. I know people who do "raw diets". It works fine for them. Their dogs are not healthier or better off than mine. Ask the guy in the bite suit how healthy my dogs are...
I've had multiple dogs live past 16 years old just eating Pedigree kibble. Read the reviews online and there should be no way that could happen. My current 16y.o. dog has had to go to canned food due to her lack of teeth. I went with Blue Buffalo because that is what she likes. Her health has improved significantly on it.
Ditto the above. Every vet I've visited for my dogs over the last 30 years recommends a quality dry with a small portion (tablespoon) of whatever scraps or wet dog food if available. The key is portion control. Stay away from auto feeders, my beagles always found a way to gimmick them. You'd think they were sitting at a blackjack table the way they worked those damn things.
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/
Lots of good info on this site. They have reviews of hundreds of dry and canned dog foods with ratings from 6-star down to 1-star (some they say they would give lower if the scale allowed). We started feeding our dogs "Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul" probably 10 years ago. It has jumped up in price recently but has been a good compromise between quality ingredients and price point.
There are many opinions on this. Most of them are founded on ignorance, superstition or emotion. I've been training dogs professionally since '91 and have maintained a kennel of dogs for most of that time. I hold several national titles in protection sports and I've had dogs my whole life. All I do is all dogs all day every day.
Here is my preference: Feed the correct amount of a good kibble twice a day. Supplement with small amounts of table scraps mixed in when you have it available.
That's it. No automatic feeders. No free feeding. No ridiculously expensive fad diets.
What is a good kibble? I've tried them all. The difference for me can be measured in vet bills, messes and hassles. The truth of the matter is that no kibble is perfect for every dog. What is "best" for one dog, might not agree with his sibling. When you have 30 dogs in a row, and you know 20 other people with 20-50 dogs in row, it gives you a pretty good sample size to draw some conclusions from. My conclusion: Overall I see the best results and fewest problems with Purina Pro-Plan. Many people will crinkle their nose at the Purina name, but I've got two generations malinois on it, and could not be happier with it. In my whole kennel we only have two dogs that are not on Pro-Plan because they are on special prescription diets. And they are the only company I know of that has not had to do any re-calls lately.
I'm not saying that a dog can't be healthy on some of the latest fad diets. I am saying that they can be healthy on a wide variety of feeding strategies. That being the case, why add extra hassles and expenses that are not needed. I know people who do "raw diets". It works fine for them. Their dogs are not healthier or better off than mine. Ask the guy in the bite suit how healthy my dogs are...
I would second this as being good advice. I likewise feed Purina Pro-Plan and have zero issues. I also feed twice daily and am able to keep them looking lean and muscular.
Bulletdog - do you also take advantage of Purina's "Club" for breeders/rescue owners? Basically, you register with Purina and then cut out the "Weight/Point" stamp on the upper side of the bag. These are then sent in and redeemed for rebate checks. I'm still collecting my stamps from the last year and half or so. Last time I was sent back around $300 in $7 rebate checks. Each check can be applied to one bag of kibble. I redeem at Walmart where they just scan the check like a normal one.
Bulletdog - do you also take advantage of Purina's "Club" for breeders/rescue owners?
Yes sir, I do. We order our food by the pallet, so this "Breeders Club" saves us a lot of money over the course of a year. I know those $7 "checks" very well.
ClearedHot
06-03-15, 10:07
I remember our MWD's were fed Science Diet kibble twice a day and there was canned food available for them as well. They undoubtedly were performing at a level that few dogs will ever see and the food they ate was good to go.
When my GSD was a pup, I fed her Wellness brand kibble for puppies. I have since switched to Merrick grain free kibble with good results.
Moose-Knuckle
06-03-15, 12:05
I have a GSD and feed her two cups of kibble with 1/2 a can mixed (she prefers beef or chicken with gravy) twice a day. I only feed her Eukanuba or Royal Canin breed specific kibble and Eukanuba canned food. She loves it and it doesn't upset her bowels.
Hands down one of the best kibble is "Orijen" out of Canada.
Look it up. It's really great stuff.
Just rehydrate with water.
I also supplement with goats milk, coconut oil and certain table scraps.
Once a week I also boil a skinless boneless chicken and cook some rice and add that to the kibble.
With puppies feed 3 times a day to keep blood sugar proper; adults can hav either 2 or 3 times a day.
I love my dog and she gets the best and is incredibly healthy. It costs me a good bit more than the cheaper brands, but she's more than worth it.
All the big names like Purina, science diet, etc are chock full of crap fillers that have no place in a proper diet. Not terrible food, but not that great either. Your dog will eat it and it will be healthy, but there is food that is light years better out there that will make for a much healthier pet; origin being one of the best you can find.
Rehydrating kibble for at least 15 minutes up to overnight is the best way to get proper absorption of the food/nutrients- especially with puppies.
Failure2Stop
06-03-15, 12:54
Dogs are built to eat meat right off the carcass.
The closer to that condition that their food is, the better.
Dry foods tend to be mostly made from wheat, flour, and corn, of which relatively little (and mostly partially digested by their original consumer) would be eaten by a predator.
Just as those are not particularly good for people, they are not optimal for dogs.
I don't think that people that feed dogs dry food (of whatever brand) are negligent or abusive or anything like that, simply illustrating that it isn't optimal.
Just like parents that feed their kids macaroni and cheese, pizza, and processed foods. Not optimal, and not worth the hurt feelings to argue about.
The one thing that I think is highly important is for the handlers to feed the dog.
Make the dog sit at least an arm's distance from the feeding area, place the food in the area, and when the dog relaxes and makes eye contact, release them to eat.
That act does wonders to establish obedience.
Dogs are built to eat meat right off the carcass.
The closer to that condition that their food is, the better.
Dry foods tend to be mostly made from wheat, flour, and corn, of which relatively little (and mostly partially digested by their original consumer) would be eaten by a predator.
Just as those are not particularly good for people, they are not optimal for dogs.
I don't think that people that feed dogs dry food (of whatever brand) are negligent or abusive or anything like that, simply illustrating that it isn't optimal.
Just like parents that feed their kids macaroni and cheese, pizza, and processed foods. Not optimal, and not worth the hurt feelings to argue about.
I agree with your points; the funny thing is, is that there are many people on here having good results with brands like Purina, Eukanuba and Science Diet which are low in meat content and high in low quality grains, wheat or filler. I don't know what to think anymore. My parents have had a Great Pyrenees who lived 13 years and one with Addison's disease who lived 11 years eat Kibbles 'n Bits every day which is about as terrible as you can get from what is supposedly good for dogs. I choose to feed better food but it is hard to see any correlation between food quality and overall health if the dog is fed the proper amount.
We feed our 13 year old Boxer twice a day. In the morning she gets one cup kibble with a little hot water and in the evening she gets a half can of finely ground can food added to a half cup kibble. She has lost most of her teeth and looks at the bowl in the morning if I don't add some water to make kibble gravey.
There are many opinions on this. Most of them are founded on ignorance, superstition or emotion. I've been training dogs professionally since '91 and have maintained a kennel of dogs for most of that time. I hold several national titles in protection sports and I've had dogs my whole life. All I do is all dogs all day every day.
Here is my preference: Feed the correct amount of a good kibble twice a day. Supplement with small amounts of table scraps mixed in when you have it available.
That's it. No automatic feeders. No free feeding. No ridiculously expensive fad diets.
What is a good kibble? I've tried them all. The difference for me can be measured in vet bills, messes and hassles. The truth of the matter is that no kibble is perfect for every dog. What is "best" for one dog, might not agree with his sibling. When you have 30 dogs in a row, and you know 20 other people with 20-50 dogs in row, it gives you a pretty good sample size to draw some conclusions from. My conclusion: Overall I see the best results and fewest problems with Purina Pro-Plan. Many people will crinkle their nose at the Purina name, but I've got two generations malinois on it, and could not be happier with it. In my whole kennel we only have two dogs that are not on Pro-Plan because they are on special prescription diets. And they are the only company I know of that has not had to do any re-calls lately.
I'm not saying that a dog can't be healthy on some of the latest fad diets. I am saying that they can be healthy on a wide variety of feeding strategies. That being the case, why add extra hassles and expenses that are not needed. I know people who do "raw diets". It works fine for them. Their dogs are not healthier or better off than mine. Ask the guy in the bite suit how healthy my dogs are...
I pretty much agree with most of the above. I have been seriously competing in Field Trials for the last 11 years with labs and have done a lot of my own quasi food research. I also feed my dogs good quality dry kibble twice a day. Fad diets are just that. Fads! One thing I have settled on is a no corn, wheat or soy kibble. I also am very picky about the protein source and the percentage of protein to fat ratio's. I keep my dogs on a 30% protein and 20% fat kibble. My dogs are in full time training and we are running trials on most weekends. During waterfowl season we are either hunting or guiding. I have 2 dogs now and they each will pick up 400 to 500 birds a season. So a 30/20 diet is needed. If you don't have a full time working dog those ratios are way too high.
The dogfoodanalysis link that was provided in an earlier post is a good place to search dog foods. Purina Pro Plan is an above average food and a lot of dogs do very well on it. I feed my dogs one of the foods from a company called Victory. My dogs do great on it. Stools are small and solid. This means your dog is digesting as much of the food as possible. Runny and or large stools are not good. The feeding charts on the back of food bags can be way off. My labs are on the smaller side and weigh in the 60lb range. The food chart would dictate around 3.5 to 4 cups a day max. Because my dogs are in full time training and or hunting they put down 6 cups of food a day and are solid as a rock. A non active dog may require less food than the chart. You need to base the caloric intake on activity level just like we would for ourselves.
So stay away from grains in foods, dogs can be really allergic to these grains, make sure the protein source is of good quality and feed enough food to maintain weight and energy levels. Stay away from treats! One last thing. Rawhide chews are not good for your dogs! If they need to chew, Kong toys with peanut butter in them is a great way for them to work out those needs and also gives them a good quality source of protein.
I've used Iams, Eukanuba, Canidae, Inova, and Blue Buffalo (currently) with minimal explosive diarrhea.
I recently had to put my favorite dog down and now I'm spending a lot more time with my other dog.
I've kind of come to the conclusion that dry food and letting her eat whenever she chose to stick her nose in to the auto feeder has turned her in to a bit of a pig. After some conversations with a very successful show dog breeder I've learned a bit more about dog food.
I've given up on the auto feeder and the kibble type food and switched to cans. I supplement the canned food with raw meat such as chicken hearts, chicken livers and some chicken backs. She's losing weight and seem to be a bit healthier.
Anyone else use this method?
Side Note: That Giggle Ball they show on TV, the dog goes friggen nuts for it. I have had to take it from her twice because I thought she would have a heart attack chasing that damned thing.
First, OP I'm sorry to hear about your pup.
There are many opinions on this. Most of them are founded on ignorance, superstition or emotion. I've been training dogs professionally since '91 and have maintained a kennel of dogs for most of that time. I hold several national titles in protection sports and I've had dogs my whole life. All I do is all dogs all day every day.
Here is my preference: Feed the correct amount of a good kibble twice a day. Supplement with small amounts of table scraps mixed in when you have it available.
That's it. No automatic feeders. No free feeding. No ridiculously expensive fad diets.
What is a good kibble? I've tried them all. The difference for me can be measured in vet bills, messes and hassles. The truth of the matter is that no kibble is perfect for every dog. What is "best" for one dog, might not agree with his sibling. When you have 30 dogs in a row, and you know 20 other people with 20-50 dogs in row, it gives you a pretty good sample size to draw some conclusions from. My conclusion: Overall I see the best results and fewest problems with Purina Pro-Plan. Many people will crinkle their nose at the Purina name, but I've got two generations malinois on it, and could not be happier with it. In my whole kennel we only have two dogs that are not on Pro-Plan because they are on special prescription diets. And they are the only company I know of that has not had to do any re-calls lately.
I'm not saying that a dog can't be healthy on some of the latest fad diets. I am saying that they can be healthy on a wide variety of feeding strategies. That being the case, why add extra hassles and expenses that are not needed. I know people who do "raw diets". It works fine for them. Their dogs are not healthier or better off than mine. Ask the guy in the bite suit how healthy my dogs are...
Second, I want your life. That sounds like a ton of fun, and hard work.
Averageman
06-04-15, 07:57
She's pretty happy with it so far.
A couple of ounces of some canned food and 3 chicken livers this morning. Kind of funny how no matter what meat is in the bowl, she will go for the raw livers or hearts and eat the canned stuff after.
I dunno, this one never had an issue with kibble, the first dog (my favorite) would occasionally get the squirts from different brands of Kibble and the concern has brought me to looking in to new ideas.
Failure2Stop
06-04-15, 14:45
https://youtu.be/zRHxZPV6jts?list=PLLxB3P1kM6iE0z-qcOB_FVyhk6q4o-kb5
Guy knows his stuff
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