View Full Version : HK USP .40 VS S&W M&P .40
I'd like to purchase a new .40 caliber handgun.
I have narrowed down my choices to the HK USP .40 and the S&W M&P .40.
Some things to consider:
-Please don't suggest another caliber( I already own 9mm and .45)
-Please don't suggest another brand(I already own a Glock .40)
-I don't care about the USP's proprietary rail
-I am not a new shooter
All input appreciated.
Thanks
Almost an apples to oranges comparison with a striker fired and hammer fired. But if it were me I would go with the Hk. And I have the mp in 40 but I also have 3 other Hk's with a 4th in layaway which is the USP 45. I've never had any problems with the m&p as far as accuracy and the trigger has smoothed out over time. With that said I would still go with the Hk even though you can probably buy 2 M&P's for the price of the Hk.
Josh
Both .40 in caliber, both polymer framed, both 4.25" barrels. Didn't think it was that much "apples to oranges" given those characteristics.
I'd vote m&p. The HK may be "better" but m&ps have decent accuracy in 40, have much better support for less $, and I hate the way the HK shoots. Imo the m&ps is one of the best 40 guns out there. The mp is also smaller and easier to conceal. I'm also partial to striker guns.
The HK is going to be the better built pistol. The M&P will most likely be reliable and accurate enough but when it comes to quality, it's not in the same league as anything built by HK.
fivepointoh
06-03-15, 09:43
Some of the finest shooting handguns I have owned were in .40 and they all were USP's and USPc's. H&K designed the USP around the .40S&W much like Glock designed the 17 around 9mm. I'm not a real big .40 advocate, but every H&K owner owes it to themselves to purchase a .40 USP or USPc.
Do yourself a big favor and checkout the USPc .40. I have one and it is a very smooth and accurate .40.
WickedWillis
06-03-15, 12:10
USP 40 hands down. The gun is built like a brick, well you know, and will always be reliable as hell. Not saying the M&P isn't though. The USP will also hold better resale value for when you decide to move away from the .40 fad ;)
WickedWillis
06-03-15, 12:11
Some of the finest shooting handguns I have owned were in .40 and they all were USP's and USPc's. H&K designed the USP around the .40S&W much like Glock designed the 17 around 9mm. I'm not a real big .40 advocate, but every H&K owner owes it to themselves to purchase a .40 USP or USPc.
That is one thing Smith did as well, learning from the mistakes that Glock made with the 40.
buckpatriot
06-03-15, 22:26
I can't give an educated comparison on a "versus" one over the other as I have no experience with the USP. I do have the M&P 40. The only thing I did to it was drop in a DCAEK. I love the platform and can drive tacks with it as it is set up. I have done the majority of my handgun shooting with the .40 and am better with it than the 9mm. I think the M&P is a great value in the polymer striker fire offerings. Of course, HK makes a great product so I guess it just depends on your budget and preference.
RioGrandeGreen
06-03-15, 23:28
Really think about a USPc .40. You might like it.
USP for the win!
What do you shoot presently, striker or hammer?
You are talking about two, very different trigger set ups. You have options with a USP trigger including getting into match grad and LEM if you are familiar with the flavor from Deutschland.
Im completely biased, the USP is hands down the better gun...20k service life with a new trigger return spring at 10k. You will have to get into a tuned gun to beat its accuracy. It does have two drawbacks for some: They are big guns and the front rail is not a 1913. You can buy a adapter to fix the second point, but you should hold and shoot one if you can.
You will hand it down to your children after you have shot the piss out of it.
Cincinnatus
06-04-15, 20:25
Go to a range that has them both. Shoot them both. Which one seemed more intuitive to you?
It will not be a definitive test-- one range session is not enough-- but you would need to wring out both platforms through some identical drills or courses to make a more definitive decision on which one works best for you.
If one had the funds, one could buy both, shoot the snot out of both, then sell the one you like the least.
Fuzzy-Reticle
06-07-15, 09:55
How about this for a reason to select the Hk
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/160710-chat-hk-armorer-must-read.html
wildcard600
06-07-15, 10:02
USP or USPc
i got over the striker fad about 6 years ago and went back to hammer guns. best decision i have made.
I have both, but my USP is a 45 Tactical and my M&P is a 9. The match trigger in the USPT is far superior to the M&P. The only thing I changed in the USP was the hammer spring from a 14 pound to a10 pound Wolff spring. The trigger pull was greatly enhanced in double action from a hard heavy pull to a butter smooth light pull, greatly increasing my trigger control and enhancing accuracy.
The draw back to the USP for me is, it's huge. HK mag capacity should be a little better for such a big gun. Obviously you are aware of the rail, that can be fixed. I can't say enough good things about either platform. For the money I think M&P is the better option. But if you're an HK fanboy, and I am, you'll be really happy with the HK USP. It's an addiction.
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M&P
Just cannot get into DA/SA. Plus, in my opinion, HK is over priced. They offer nothing over Glock or S&W in the polymer pistol except an inflated price tag.
Yes I own an USP in .40 S&W.
Oh and for the USP.....its gigantic, the paddle mag release sucks, the mags are expensive and the height over bore is ridiculous.
WickedWillis
06-07-15, 17:46
M&P
Just cannot get into DA/SA. Plus, in my opinion, HK is over priced. They offer nothing over Glock or S&W in the polymer pistol except an inflated price tag.
Yes I own an USP in .40 S&W.
Oh and for the USP.....its gigantic, the paddle mag release sucks, the mags are expensive and the height over bore is ridiculous.
Height over bore complaints? Paddle magazine release complaints? All "issues" easily remedied with training. I go from Sigs, to Glocks, to HK's and never have a height over bore complaint.
I would go with the M&P 40. Why? Because I have shot an H&K USP 40 and I didn't like the way the H&K USP felt in my hand. I ended up going with the Sig. I like the-the way the M&P feels. Plus the M&P is a soft shooting 40 cal.
Height over bore complaints? Paddle magazine release complaints? All "issues" easily remedied with training. I go from Sigs, to Glocks, to HK's and never have a height over bore complaint.
Yup, might not affect times, but we hate it. OP did ask for opinions. SIG are great guns I'll never own for nothing other than personal prefference. If you look at facts only, the mp has better mag capacity and is lower priced so it looks like a no brainer to me.
Edit. I don't know if it's bore hight or slide speed, but HK and sig both feel like a brick clanking back and forth that I have to wait for before following up. Also, triggers should be moot also cause that's a training issue as well. ;)
El Vaquero
06-07-15, 19:50
I've owned both the USP and USPc in .40 (I've sold the full size). I also have decent trigger time with the M&P .40. The M&P is a very decent pistol. I just happen to love my USPc. Prefer it hands down to its big brother the USP. There's also only a one round difference in magazine capacity between the two.
MorphCross
06-07-15, 20:05
To put things in perspective I owned a USP .40 about 7 years ago. Frame safety w/decocker. In the process of trying out different firearms I traded it, mainly because it always felt blocky. Never had a problem as far as shot to shot reliability went.
Fast forward to last year, I picked up an m&p .40c. No Frame Safety. Again shot to shot reliability hasn't been an issue. The m&p conceals better in terms of thickness and obviously grip length and frame length. But I also ended up putting a DCAEK/Trigger from Apex into the m&p so you could say that I spent as much on the compact m&p as I did on the full size USP.
Height over bore complaints? Paddle magazine release complaints? All "issues" easily remedied with training. I go from Sigs, to Glocks, to HK's and never have a height over bore complaint.
Congratulations, we aren't all you. The man(or woman?) asked for people's opinions/preferences, I gave mine.
The trigger and mag release are remedied by training. But then guess what, I now have two different ways of doing things and I rely on striker fired, frame/button mag release for work. Stupid to switch and have to learn two different trigger and mag release styles. Again, my opinion.
Congratulations, we aren't all you. The man(or woman?) asked for people's opinions/preferences, I gave mine.
The trigger and mag release are remedied by training. But then guess what, I now have two different ways of doing things and I rely on striker fired, frame/button mag release for work. Stupid to switch and have to learn two different trigger and mag release styles. Again, my opinion.
Etho, I dont know that it is stupid to learn to different ways of triggers/mag release. I know where you are coming from with a keeping continuity across systems.
I cringe a little when people are trying to figure out the HK mag release, but they get it eventually. I rarely have an issue transitioning from style to style, but I grew up on 19's and started buying HK 18 years ago.
The USP is love hate for most, with ergos being the biggest issue. You wont find a more reliable gun, built like a tank, by Herman the German.
brickboy240
06-09-15, 10:47
The HK USP 40 full size has got to be one of the softest shooting 40s around.
I'd love to have one and borrow my cousin's quite often. It is a big gun but very pleasant to shoot for a 40.
I voted USP. The USP was designed around the 40.
Personally, I'd get the LEM or add it afterwards. It's really nice on the USP line (better than the P30 line; basically just a better reset). You could even go jet-funnel and 16 round see-through mags if you wish.
The best 40 cal recoil handling guns I've shot. I have a USP-Tact in 40 and every time I shoot that gun I swear it's a 9mm.
WickedWillis
06-09-15, 11:13
Congratulations, we aren't all you. The man(or woman?) asked for people's opinions/preferences, I gave mine.
The trigger and mag release are remedied by training. But then guess what, I now have two different ways of doing things and I rely on striker fired, frame/button mag release for work. Stupid to switch and have to learn two different trigger and mag release styles. Again, my opinion.
My statement certainly wasn't meant to offend you. My carry gun has the standard push-button mag release and I have no issues with that whatsoever. If you don't want to learn a new way of doing things, it's not a big deal at all. I was just stating that with a little bit of training it comes as naturally as pushing the button on my G19. I know the paddle magazine release isn't for everyone, and many people here hate it.
Soft shooting, like a comfortable gun, is not good in its own right. Just cause it feels soft shooting or feels good, does not mean YOU will shoot it better. That said I'm sure you could train for the gun and get used to it if you don't like it at first... or maybe that's what you are good with.
Op, maybe you could rent or use someone else's gun and compare live fire with both. From a quality standpoint both will be good. HK will likely be more accurate, but stock mp is capable of heads shots at 25yds offhand so in real use I don't think it's going to make a diffrence.
Points to consider:
Mp has more support, and is cheaper stock.
Both are designed around 40
Both have good track record.
Striker vs da/sa.
Accuracy differences.
Mag release
Etho, I dont know that it is stupid to learn to different ways of triggers/mag release. I know where you are coming from with a keeping continuity across systems.
I cringe a little when people are trying to figure out the HK mag release, but they get it eventually. I rarely have an issue transitioning from style to style, but I grew up on 19's and started buying HK 18 years ago.
The USP is love hate for most, with ergos being the biggest issue. You wont find a more reliable gun, built like a tank, by Herman the German.
Stupid is a bit of a harsh word. Not a good idea? Not to me anyway. That's not to say I don't shoot other platforms. But to spend enough time to become proficient? No. The last thing I(anyone really if they truly depend on a firearm) is a change of how things are done. Train like you fight, fight like you train...after all.
I can use the paddle mag release just fine. But again, see my first statement here.
The USP is a fine pistol. I enjoy shooting mine from time to time. But it is nothing but a range toy for me. It was given to me. I will still argue until the cows come home that HK offers nothing in a polymer pistol that justifies the cost. It doesn't do anything better than my Glocks or someone else' M&P or any of the other polymer pistols.
My statement certainly wasn't meant to offend you. My carry gun has the standard push-button mag release and I have no issues with that whatsoever. If you don't want to learn a new way of doing things, it's not a big deal at all. I was just stating that with a little bit of training it comes as naturally as pushing the button on my G19. I know the paddle magazine release isn't for everyone, and many people here hate it.
It smacked of arrogance and emotion. If it were not and I read it wrong, no harm no foul. No grudge here.
WickedWillis
06-09-15, 15:52
It smacked of arrogance and emotion. If it were not and I read it wrong, no harm no foul. No grudge here.
I Probably should have worded it differently. That wasn't my intent.
fivepointoh
06-09-15, 19:42
I will also echo that the USP and USPc I had in .40 were TAME. Felt like a 9mm and 9mm Glocks are more snappy than USP's in .40. Secondly, I don't shoot USP framed pistols well with the stock grip. But then I add a Hogue slip on grip to the pistol and it instantly transforms into HK45/P30'ish and everything falls into place for me.
The USP40 is my SHTF pistol. I am looking to get a USP40c. I shot my brothers and I may like it better than the full size. I want to upgrade them to the LEM/match hybrid as soon as funds allow. I have owned the USPf since 1994, it has never failed. It is one of the few fully supported chambers for the 40. During the last ammo crunch, 40 ammo in my area was much easier to get than everything else.
The USP40 is my SHTF pistol. I am looking to get a USP40c. I shot my brothers and I may like it better than the full size. I want to upgrade them to the LEM/match hybrid as soon as funds allow. I have owned the USPf since 1994, it has never failed. It is one of the few fully supported chambers for the 40. During the last ammo crunch, 40 ammo in my area was much easier to get than everything else.
H&K was smart to build the USP around the .40 and they got it right. My USPc .40 shoots as smooth as some 9mm pistols and is dead nuts accurate. There is a USPc .45 Stainless, 1998 date code V1 in 98% condition on a local gun board and it is beautiful! Damn hard not to rush out and buy it at $650. Had I not just got a G43, it would be mine. :D
Maverick07
06-11-15, 00:10
I recently picked up a LNIB M&P VTAC .40 and have previously owned a number of HK's, including a full size .40. I have never fallen in love with any operating system but am inclined to striker fired over DA/SA. I found HK's very well built and completely reliable. I do not like their ergos and high slide mass. HK triggers are very heavy and long in the traditional DA cycle and decent in SA. The best DA/SA trigger in my experience is the Beretta 92 with the D spring. The VTAC is a very good pistol and I do like the sights. The ergos are in my hand are some ways better than the platform I feel most comfortable with, the Glock 19, but not as good in others. The trigger is decent, but not as good as the Glock or VP9, and I find I cannot get as high in the backstrap as I would like because the trigger guard is not undercut enough.
Between the full-size M&P and the HK, I say M&P: better ergos, lighter, thinner, far less slide mass, less expensive, easier trigger to learn, lifetime warranty and more after market support. In my hand the M&P's are also softer under recoil in compared to the HK. Subjectively, I think the VTAC looks pretty bad ass in its FDE finish, Vickers mag plates and LFI mag release (the stock mag release remind of a big freakin' wart).
I recently picked up a LNIB M&P VTAC .40 and have previously owned a number of HK's, including a full size .40. I have never fallen in love with any operating system but am inclined to striker fired over DA/SA. I found HK's very well built and completely reliable. I do not like their ergos and high slide mass. HK triggers are very heavy and long in the traditional DA cycle and decent in SA. The best DA/SA trigger in my experience is the Beretta 92 with the D spring. The VTAC is a very good pistol and I do like the sights. The ergos are in my hand are some ways better than the platform I feel most comfortable with, the Glock 19, but not as good in others. The trigger is decent, but not as good as the Glock or VP9, and I find I cannot get as high in the backstrap as I would like because the trigger guard is not undercut enough.
Between the full-size M&P and the HK, I say M&P: better ergos, lighter, thinner, far less slide mass, less expensive, easier trigger to learn, lifetime warranty and more after market support. In my hand the M&P's are also softer under recoil in compared to the HK. Subjectively, I think the VTAC looks pretty bad ass in its FDE finish, Vickers mag plates and LFI mag release (the stock mag release remind of a big freakin' wart).
Not to derail the thread, but Maverick07, undercutting the trigger guard is something easily accomplished with emory cloth and a sharpie. I'm not the most mechanically inclined person and it was very easy to do.
I recently picked up a LNIB M&P VTAC .40 and have previously owned a number of HK's, including a full size .40. I have never fallen in love with any operating system but am inclined to striker fired over DA/SA. I found HK's very well built and completely reliable. I do not like their ergos and high slide mass. HK triggers are very heavy and long in the traditional DA cycle and decent in SA. The best DA/SA trigger in my experience is the Beretta 92 with the D spring. The VTAC is a very good pistol and I do like the sights. The ergos are in my hand are some ways better than the platform I feel most comfortable with, the Glock 19, but not as good in others. The trigger is decent, but not as good as the Glock or VP9, and I find I cannot get as high in the backstrap as I would like because the trigger guard is not undercut enough.
Between the full-size M&P and the HK, I say M&P: better ergos, lighter, thinner, far less slide mass, less expensive, easier trigger to learn, lifetime warranty and more after market support. In my hand the M&P's are also softer under recoil in compared to the HK. Subjectively, I think the VTAC looks pretty bad ass in its FDE finish, Vickers mag plates and LFI mag release (the stock mag release remind of a big freakin' wart).
If you don't like DA/SA, there's an LEM for that.
WickedWillis
06-12-15, 11:42
If you don't like DA/SA, there's an LEM for that.
You just made me spit water everywhere, that is some fine sig worthy material there :lol:
brickboy240
06-12-15, 11:52
While I know that it is true that a soft shooting gun does not mean you are guaranteed to shoot it better, there is no mistaking the biggest whine about the 40SW is it's snappiness. That said...the USP 40 full size takes the "it is too snappy" issue off the table.
(I shoot and carry a G22 most times and never had a problem with it's snappiness. If the 40SW is too snappy...maybe you need to hit the gym LOL)
Even though I do not own an HK...the many times I have borrowed this USP40 and a P-30...I never had issues with the mag release and am pretty sure I can adapt to it. I am getting a VP-9 in a month or so and the mag release is just not a big deal...sorry.
Maverick07
06-12-15, 22:24
If you don't like DA/SA, there's an LEM for that.
I actually don't mind DA/SA. I spend a lot of time on M9 and have an M9A1 with a D spring. It is a downright accurate, reliable and worthy pistol. But between the DA/SA trigger and striker mech, the striker is an advantage for numerous reasons. More specifically in this thread, the striker mech of the M&P is my preference over a stock USP40. Every time.
I actually don't mind DA/SA. I spend a lot of time on M9 and have an M9A1 with a D spring. It is a downright accurate, reliable and worthy pistol. But between the DA/SA trigger and striker mech, the striker is an advantage for numerous reasons. More specifically in this thread, the striker mech of the M&P is my preference over a stock USP40. Every time.
Do you know how the LEM model operates?
Maverick07
06-14-15, 16:49
Do you know how the LEM model operates?
Uh... yeah. Don't patronize. Adding $150 on top of a $800 pistol to obtain a smooth and consistent trigger pull to approximate a stricker mech does not make a hell of a lot of sense.
Uh... yeah. Don't patronize. Adding $150 on top of a $800 pistol to obtain a smooth and consistent trigger pull to approximate a stricker mech does not make a hell of a lot of sense.
Settle down, chief.
It was just a simple question. Nothing more.
Maverick07
06-14-15, 17:37
Settle down, chief.
It was just a simple question. Nothing more.
Chief? Really?
Uh... yeah. Don't patronize. Adding $150 on top of a $800 pistol to obtain a smooth and consistent trigger pull to approximate a stricker mech does not make a hell of a lot of sense.
You can buy them from the factory with LEM installed. V7 I believe it is.
Maverick07
06-14-15, 22:39
VP40!!!!
:)
That is the answer for this .40 question. Get HK quality in a striker mech. Best of both worlds. Slide does look heavier than the VP9, but that may just be the photos.
brickboy240
06-15-15, 11:28
If the new VP-40 shoots anywhere near as soft as the full size USP40....I'd say that is THE 40 caliber pistol to own.
I just hope the new VP-40 is as reliable as the VP-9 has been but knowing HK...that should not be a problem.
I have tried for years to buy the USP40 full size off my cousin (he never shoots the damn thing and I borrow it constantly) but nope...he won't budge. I actually like it's shooting qualities over my own Glock 22.
I have to agree with the above post...Now that the VP40 is out, there's no real reason to go to a USP over a M&P (unless one wants a DA/SA pistol), when the VP40 is available. The latest design, with all the features of the VP9, and at a VP9 price, which puts it in a good position compared to the M&P..
Thanks for all the input guys.
I ended up going with the M&P .40. My reasons were the following:
-Higher magazine capacity in the free states
-Same sized barrel than the USP but the M&P is less bulky
I own HK's and their quality and craftsmanship is second to none but I had to go with the M&P. As far as the VP .40 is concerned, i'm sure it will be a spectacular gun, it came out right in the days when I was making this decision but it's not available yet at ranges for me to try it out. It has a shorter barrel than the M&P and the magazine capacity is smaller so the fact that I didn't pick the VP .40 wont be keeping me up at night lol.
You know HK makes 16 round mags for the 40, right?
Anyway, enjoy your Smith. She'll serve you well.
Maverick07
06-19-15, 20:45
Thanks for all the input guys.
I ended up going with the M&P .40. My reasons were the following:
-Higher magazine capacity in the free states
-Same sized barrel than the USP but the M&P is less bulky
I own HK's and their quality and craftsmanship is second to none but I had to go with the M&P. As far as the VP .40 is concerned, i'm sure it will be a spectacular gun, it came out right in the days when I was making this decision but it's not available yet at ranges for me to try it out. It has a shorter barrel than the M&P and the magazine capacity is smaller so the fact that I didn't pick the VP .40 wont be keeping me up at night lol.
I think you will find it a very good pistol. I have the VTAC version and I bought it on a whim because it was priced right as a LNIB used pistol and I have a ton of .40 duty ammo to unload. The stock trigger is decent but after a couple hundred rounds it has smoothed out some. I thought about going to the APEX trigger but it is now actually getting better as more rounds go thru it. Reset is good, though not as good as a Glock. Recoil impulse is very managable, about the same as my Glock 19 really, and subjectively feels quite a bit less harsh than the Glock 22. I replaced out the mag release with the LF Arms standard version and the floorplates with Vickers Tactical but don't see it needing anything else. Now I need to shoot it even more to get the most out of it.
Congrats on the M&P. While I am an HK guy, they both are great and reliable guns.
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