View Full Version : Does any particular new rifle have a reputation for being the most durable?
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-10-15, 19:42
Does any particular new rifle have a reputation for being the most durable? Just wondering.
sevenhelmet
06-10-15, 19:52
<grabs popcorn>
This should be fun to watch.
Durable how Greg? And how new?
<grabs popcorn>
This should be fun to watch.
Indeed. Grab your popcorn and a helmet, should be interesting.
Curious - are you purposely trying to incite a riot? Must meet a sanction quota?
;)
black22rifle
06-10-15, 20:11
...................
sidewaysil80
06-10-15, 20:29
I'm curious to see what the consensus is as well. Colt never let me down during my time in the service and BCM seems to be the most trusted/respected in terms of a no-nonsense "mil spec" rifle. I'm curious where Noveske and Knights fit into the hierarchy...
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-10-15, 20:34
I was thinking Win 70 vs Rem 700 vs Ruger.
No mausers, 1903s
I'm curious to see what the consensus is as well. Colt never let me down during my time in the service and BCM seems to be the most trusted/respected in terms of a no-nonsense "mil spec" rifle. I'm curious where Noveske and Knights fit into the hierarchy...
This was posted in the bolt gun sub forum. I don't think Greg was asking about ARs.
Coal Dragger
06-10-15, 22:03
All three of those listed actions will probably last for a very very long time, not sure any of us could afford to try wearing one out. The ammo costs would probably pay for a house.
1859sharps
06-11-15, 13:54
I was thinking Win 70 vs Rem 700 vs Ruger.
No mausers, 1903s
wait...did you just imply there are bolt actions other than the R700? :p
crusader377
06-11-15, 14:09
I think the most durable production bolt rifle would either be a pre-64 action Winchester 70 or CZ 550. These are probably the most popular dangerous game rifles due to their durability and there controlled feed.
What about Steyr Mannlicher or Sako? Both of these companies brag on superior build and craftsmanship.
My Rem 700 hasn't let me down, and my Son's new Tikka seems to be an exceptionally well made rifle.
BuzzinSATX
06-11-15, 23:01
I had several an old Ruger 77's including a 30-06 that I ran over 700 rounds through over 6 years that never misfired, failed to feed, or failed to eject. And it shot around 1.5 inches @ 100 yards every time I had it on a bench. Killed a lot of deer and just shot lots of targets with that gun back in my single days. Loved ringing a 6" plate at 350 at one of the ranges I used to go to.
Sold that gun to a buddy when I went to Korea. Miss that shooter...a lot, as well as a tack-driver M77V in 22-250. Have not owned recent Rugers, but the older models ran great for me.
I have a Tikka T3 that I consider durable.
Winchester 70 controlled feed hands down.
brickboy240
06-12-15, 12:04
Too bad you would not consider a sporterized 98 Mauser. That is probably the toughest bolt action I have ever seen. All machined from steel...no MIM or cheapo parts. Hard to beat the early Czech, German, Belgian and Swedish Mausers.
I also have a 1903 Springfield but really...it loses major points for the complicated bolt and flimsy 2 piece firing pin.
As far as new rifles go...the Savages seem pretty tough. However, I have not been able to crap out any of my 3 sporterized Mausers to warrant buying a new rifle.
How about one of those 300 dollar Remington model 770's from WalMart. They look like they'd last a while.
How about one of those 300 dollar Remington model 770's from WalMart. They look like they'd last a while.
Lol cmon man :p
Isn't the Ruger M77 action similar to a Mauser? They always feel very robust to me.
brickboy240
06-15-15, 11:47
Yeah but many of the early M77s had terrible triggers that you could not adjust too much. They also had thin barrels that heated up quickly.
I also have an early 80s Remington M700 BDL in 270 that is a total tack hammer and runs great. I know these have the reputation from the lawsuit but I swapped the trigger and never had this problem. Recently, my brother picked up a rifle identical to mine in 30-06 from a pawn shop for 350 bucks. Swapped the trigger and man...it is a shooter! Pretty cheap for such a quality rig.
Anonye else still love the older M700 Remingtons? They're pretty reliable and durable guns if you ask me.
Yeah but many of the early M77s had terrible triggers that you could not adjust too much. They also had thin barrels that heated up quickly.
I also have an early 80s Remington M700 BDL in 270 that is a total tack hammer and runs great. I know these have the reputation from the lawsuit but I swapped the trigger and never had this problem. Recently, my brother picked up a rifle identical to mine in 30-06 from a pawn shop for 350 bucks. Swapped the trigger and man...it is a shooter! Pretty cheap for such a quality rig.
Anonye else still love the older M700 Remingtons? They're pretty reliable and durable guns if you ask me.
I just picked up a mid 80's Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in 30-06. Havent shot it yet but the original owner said it loves 180 CoreLokts.
Somebody correct me but I believe the Sako's use a mauser type bolt with the controlled round feed. A gunsmith I know has a few that have been rode hard and he has nothing but good things to say about them.
Coal Dragger
06-16-15, 00:24
No sorry to say all current an recent Sako's are push feed. The older two lug actions can easily be mistaken for a controlled round feed action because of the full length anti-bind lug on the right side of the bolt body.
Any of them are hell for stout though, fully forged actions and bolts.
The Remington Model 700, Winchester Model 70, or Ruger Model 77 are all extremely durable. A commercial 98 Mauser variant like a Husqvarna, FN, Zastava, Interarms, etc., MIGHT be a little more so, but probably not enough to matter. Technically, they're commercial actions, not sporterized military actions, so I guess they qualify.
Okie John
brickboy240
06-16-15, 14:08
My uncle has an older Sako 75 in 7x57mm and it is a well made, accurate rifle.
The Sako 75s are nice but they can be pricey.
Pricey they are that's why there isn't a Sako TRG in my safe yet, but it's on my bucket list. One should certainly hope these are very dependable rifles starting at around $3K.
http://www.sako.fi/rifles/sako-trg
http://mobile.eurooptic.com/sako-trg.aspx
Older fn made Brownings, Sako m75 would be my choices. The Ruger's are nice guns but the receivers are not forged, they are investment cast.
1917 Enfield would make that list. They have been used as big bore conversion platforms for a long time.
ETA: Looks like I missed the word new as well.
In that Case a SAKO 85 or similar SAKO rifle.
1859sharps
10-14-15, 14:37
I notice people mentioning features such as controlled feed as supporting a durable claim ....but does controlled feed make a rifle durable or just reliable? reliable and durable are not synonymous
Fredericianer
10-14-15, 15:37
Mauser 98. Apart from the 'as issued' collectors items, and the rebuilt Russian captured models, there are thousands of sporters, and sporterized military Mauser rifles still in regular use today.
EDIT: Sorry I missed the word 'new' when I read the thread the first time.
titsonritz
10-14-15, 22:42
Isn't the Ruger M77 action similar to a Mauser? They always feel very robust to me.
The Ruger M77 as well as the Winchester M70 owe their heritage to Mauser.
I notice people mentioning features such as controlled feed as supporting a durable claim ....but does controlled feed make a rifle durable or just reliable? reliable and durable are not synonymous
Remington actions are strong, and the "three rings of steel" true to the extent that a chambered cartridge is completely embedded in steel. Mausers for example have an ejector cut through the bolt that allows gas to escape into the action, as does the bolt face configuration allowing cartridges to slip under the extractor hook. Mauser barrels also have a large cut in the chamber area to accommodate the extractor. Mauser lost an eye during early phases of development to escaping gas, subsequently equipping bolts with baffles to deflect gas away from the shooter.
The weak link in all of this is the brass cartridge case, once it fails, high velocity pressurized gas escaping through the action will wreak havoc on any rifle. Gas venting becomes the deciding safety factor in any action, Remington does it as well as any.
The Remington is safest with the original extractor, and compromised when the bolt is cut away for the Sako type extractor. This defeats the gas containment system.
Remington bolt handles are silver brazed to the bolt body, so they can be broken off, as when hitting them with an object when a cartridge sticks. Same with the post '64 Winchesters, where the bolt is two piece, and many others. There is a modification where the bolt is screwed down after sliver brazing.
Remington actions are plentiful and cheap. Bonus is that there are zillions of aftermarket accessories, parts and accuracy upgrades available for them. The 40X single shot action is a bit stiffer and offers a bit more accuracy when set up properly.
Remington actions that are completely reworked with all the bells and whistles and a high end barrel are accurate enough for anything except competitive benchrest. All in all, they are a good safe product with almost unlimited potential for modification.
Remington's "3 Rings of Steel" slogan (http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3445551/Remington_s_3_Rings_of_Steel_s)
The Weatherby Mark_V (http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Weatherby_Mark_V) with its nine locking lugs (and "3 Rings of Steel") was also designed to be very strong.
Too bad you would not consider a sporterized 98 Mauser. That is probably the toughest bolt action I have ever seen. All machined from steel...no MIM or cheapo parts. Hard to beat the early Czech, German, Belgian and Swedish Mausers.
I also have a 1903 Springfield but really...it loses major points for the complicated bolt and flimsy 2 piece firing pin.
As far as new rifles go...the Savages seem pretty tough. However, I have not been able to crap out any of my 3 sporterized Mausers to warrant buying a new rifle.
Mauser 98. Apart from the 'as issued' collectors items, and the rebuilt Russian captured models, there are thousands of sporters, and sporterized military Mauser rifles still in regular use today.
EDIT: Sorry I missed the word 'new' when I read the thread the first time.
Rifle aficionados are often surprised to learn that Rigby never has built its barreled actions. Recognizing the brilliant design of the Mauser M98, Rigby eschewed reinventing the wheel. Instead he arranged to become the exclusive importer and distributor of Mauser actions in Britain way back in 1897. Then he commissioned Mauser to engineer a longer, magnum action to fit his rimmed .400/350 Rigby and, undoubtedly, any potential, new rounds to come, like the .416 Rigby.
Rigby Returns (http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2015/9/14/rigby-returns/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=0915)
Out of the three listed, would take a Winchester any day, Ruger next and then if there were no rocks or sticks would settle for a 700.
700's suffer from feeding from the ADL/BDL magazines, typical fix is a DBM system. Then you have a sliver of steel for an extractor and generally weak ejection. The 700 is only what it is because the Military used/uses it. It wasn't the necessarily best choice, just what they went with. It is what it is, my opinion and truth hurts.
Only into Tikka's for about a year and I'm impressed so far.
Sorry for the resurrection, but if we're going to figure out which rifle is the most durable we need to find some examples of a worn out rifle. I'm assuming that burning out a 243 barrel wouldn't count, maybe something along the lines of a receiver/bolt combo that that gave out from normal shooting?
Winchester 70. I've come across countless used, abused and even long abandoned rifles used by fuds and hunters and a variety of others - the Winchester 70 always seems to hold up against unreasonably extreme amounts of abuse.
I don't think this discussion can move far beyond anecdotal.
Anecdotal for sure, but I own and use Model 70s, M77, and 700's in addition to multiple mausers.
Any new additions I make will be Mauser, original, licensed, or copies.
Not anything wrong with the newer actions, but its just hard to beat the mausers which is why they are used for so many custom rifles.
700's are my least favorite, but their basic youth models are great "poor man's mountain rifles". My sons 7mm08 has been great.
Yep, my daughters 7-08 SPS is light and accurate. The short stock is great over bulky clothing. It's going deer hunting with me next week.
I've owned Rems for ages and still have a customized 700 in 300 Win Mag. It is the most accurate rifle I have ever shot. I also had a Rem Mtn Rifle in 7mm08 for about 15yrs and sold it. Last year I went to a Win M70 in 7mm08 and love it. I wanted to get back to a Mtn. type setup ever since I sold the Rem Mtn. and this fit the bill perfectly. So far I like it more so than the original Rem Mtn. rifle I bought back 90
If I had known how much we'd like the cheap/youth 700 SPS in 7mm08 I'd have bought myself one as well.
But M70 featherweight in a flat shooting cartridge is also tough to beat. I have one in .280.
Another favorite is a short action 18" barrel M77 RSI (manlicher stock) in .308. Every time I take it out somewhere I get offers to buy it. Win or Rem should make one, it'd sell.
Many good options, some getting a bit expensive, some not.
Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics
RetroRevolver77
12-06-15, 18:34
Check out the Steyr SM 12 SX or CL II SX models. They have fast handling polymer stocks, full length aluminum bedding blocks, double stack magazines, and of course Steyr hammer forged barrels.
https://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/en/nocache/products/hunting-rifles-steyr-mannlicher/cl2sx/versions/
steyrman13
12-06-15, 19:02
Check out the Steyr SM 12 SX or CL II SX models. They have fast handling polymer stocks, full length aluminum bedding blocks, double stack magazines, and of course Steyr hammer forged barrels.
https://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/en/nocache/products/hunting-rifles-steyr-mannlicher/cl2sx/versions/
I'll second the Steyr. Even "just" the Pro Hunter line. The SBS (safe bolt system) is very stout and also has relief for debri in the action. Check them out.
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