Black VS. DT VS. FDE

[No Bananas]

I'm in AZ and going through the SBR process for a LMT 10.5" :cool: , but I won't be able to get that upper until all my paperwork goes through :( . In the mean time I've been floating around the myriad of accessories and I'm looking at Flat Dark Earth & Desert Tan pretty seriously. If I went with DT or FDE I'd get that color in the grip, stock, VFG, rail covers, maybe the rear BUIS. The receiver, barrel & standard front sight would remain black. What ya' think?

[rob_s]

FWIW, I only use colored furniture so I can identify a particular firearm at a glance in the safe. So, if you already have a gun in black, I'd go with the tan just for diversity's sake.

[LOKNLOD]

Are there many options for a "Desert Tan" that's different than FDE?

As far as colors, go for it. There are a lot of tan(ish) colored SBRs out there these days. They look good.

[Jay Cunningham]

I'm not sure that it makes any real difference.

You live in AZ so a desert tan or dark earth might make better sense. I seem to be taking a liking towards khaki/tan/FDE/whatever for my gear and FG for my furniture on my AR.

I'm not sure that I have a valid reason for this, other than maybe I think it looks cool.

[rob_s]

My biggest reason for a change to tan/brown/whatever for gear has been heat. Black gear gets damn hot in the sun. I've never been at a class with tan gear and thought "man, I wish this gear was hotter" but I've damn sure been at a class with black gear and though "goddamnit, I wish this gear was TAN!"

Same can be said for guns to some extent. Leaving an all-black gun sit in the sun for an hour and then putting your cheek down on the stock can suck pretty good.

[Jay Cunningham]

My biggest reason for a change to tan/brown/whatever for gear has been heat. Black gear gets damn hot in the sun. I've never been at a class with tan gear and thought "man, I wish this gear was hotter" but I've damn sure been at a class with black gear and though "goddamnit, I wish this gear was TAN!"

Same can be said for guns to some extent. Leaving an all-black gun sit in the sun for an hour and then putting your cheek down on the stock can suck pretty good.

That sounds like as good a reason as any for a civilian. Obviously .mil and contractor types have different camouflage requirements.

[LOKNLOD]

Well there you have it. Tan rifles are cooler than black rifles!

Joking aside, that does make sense. At least it's a valid reason other than "cause I want to".

My AR has OD furniture, although I'm trying to upgrade some stuff and am considering saying F' it, and just getting whatever color parts happen to be in stock. No one ever seems to have all the right parts in all the right colors all at the same time as my wallet having money for them. It'll add the to camo effect.

[rob_s]

Well there you have it. Tan rifles are cooler than black rifles!

Joking aside, that does make sense. At least it's a valid reason other than "cause I want to".

My AR has OD furniture, although I'm trying to upgrade some stuff and am considering saying F' it, and just getting whatever color parts happen to be in stock. No one ever seems to have all the right parts in all the right colors all at the same time as my wallet having money for them. It'll add the to camo effect.

That's the reason my tan rifle went "back to black" when I changed some parts; I couldn't find everything in one color and black is the new tan that was the new green. :D

[No Bananas]

I'm not sure that I have a valid reason for this, other than maybe I think it looks cool.

That's one of the most important factors here!;) Luckily, I've got time on my hand to work through or wait for different vendors to get stuff that matches.

[Iraqgunz]

Bananas,

All of my rifles are painted in Tan or similar colors. One thing I like about the paint living and working in the "desert" is the weapon doesn't look as dirty and the paint seems to actually provide another layer of protection.

BTW- I am soon to be a resident of AZ and I can hardly wait. Good bye Kalifornia.

[kalikraven]

Name one natural environment that black is a color in? In fact name one thing that occurs in nature that is black. Allright if your hiding behind some black bears your OK, other than that black does not occur in nature.

[Gutshot John]

Name one natural environment that black is a color in? In fact name one thing that occurs in nature that is black. Allright if your hiding behind some black bears your OK, other than that black does not occur in nature.

Soil/Dirt? Shadows in a forest?

That there is no naturally occurring "black" is something of an overstatement. Where I live, the canopy can turn noon into dusk.

That it's not "true" black doesn't change that this is how your eye sees it.

[kalikraven]

Sure if you want to hide in the shadows, I had a feeling somebody would say that. What happens if someone uses a flashlight or a search light. Plus if you use that as your reason then you limit yourself to only being camouflaged during the hours of darkness. I guess I was wrong about the soil thing. If your raiding one of the black volcanic beaches in Hawaii then black is great. Just stay on the beach and low to the ground. I do not use black for anything tactical because it is the least tactical of colors. Just my personal opinion here......... YMMV ;)

[ARin]

IIRC i read some studies that said olive drab was the most versatile color.....even in urban conditions.

i like fde stuff though.

[LOKNLOD]

IIRC i read some studies that said olive drab was the most versatile color.....even in urban conditions.

i like fde stuff though.


A light OD or greenish khaki is very versatile. I wish I could get AR furniture in the shade of green that the OD Glocks are -- if you lay it on something green, it looks green, if you lay it on something brown, it looks brown.

[kalikraven]

FDE for me, except in Arctic area's. ;)

I think that the Army and Air Force both made big mistakes by going to the one pattern fits all camo. At least the Marine's got it right by having a separate woodland and desert uniform.

[Gutshot John]

Sure if you want to hide in the shadows

IIRC it's not that you're hiding in shadows, but the point is to break up your outline. I do agree that black isn't a great base color, as it's easier to add black to brown/green, than cover it up.

In a densely wooded area, there will be shadows in the landscape, under trees, around foliage all around you. Ideally with a little bit of distance you simply blend into the background as an amorphous blob of green/brown/black.

In an open field however...

[mrosamilia]

Name one natural environment that black is a color in? In fact name one thing that occurs in nature that is black. Allright if your hiding behind some black bears your OK, other than that black does not occur in nature.

Oil,sand,rock

[No Bananas]

Anybody using one of these? Got pics of it on yer rifle?

http://www.hawaiishooting.com/MRF-C-7-Flat-Dark-Earth-3.gif

[RogerinTPA]

I have one in FDE and the other in OD Green/Foliage Green, but my preference and which turns the most heads at the range is the FDE one.:D

[PRGGodfather]

They're both kinda... beige. ;)

Light colors are best for camouflage, even in urban environments. During the day, there are a lot of light tones everywhere -- and almost no black.

Black guns stick out... well, like black guns! Of course, we cops HAVE to deploy our AR's in black. It's tradtition...

Heck, even the concrete around me is more light-colored than black... so my sniper rifle is light-colored camo...

During the day, go light -- at night, it doesn't matter.

[variablebinary]

Depends.

I like my XCR in black just fine

I want a SCAR in FDE

I can go either way.

[rob_s]

I have one in FDE and the other in OD Green/Foliage Green, but my preference and which turns the most heads at the range is the FDE one.:D

Funny, for me the green one gets all the attention ;)
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/Both-01.jpg

[ToddG]

Name one natural environment that black is a color in?

Night.

:cool:

[No Bananas]

Night.

:cool:

"I wear my sunglasses at"....uh....nevermind...wrong forum.

[Elvis269]

Name one natural environment that black is a color in? In fact name one thing that occurs in nature that is black. Allright if your hiding behind some black bears your OK, other than that black does not occur in nature.

Ummm, nightime?

[ToddG]

Ummm, nightime?

Wish I'd thought of that! :cool:

[Jay Cunningham]

Well, I'm no camo expert (actually I'm no expert on anything) but I thought that I'd read somewhere that black is actually much easier to pick out at night than certain other colors/patterns.

I read it on the internet so it must be true.

[ToddG]

gotm4 and I had this discussion while he was building my new gun.

Basically, things in the dark look like they did in the light, but without the light. So if there is little or no black in the environment, when it's dark, there is still little or no "black with no light shining on it."

If white blends in with the environment during the day, then it blends in at night, too. Because the white on your gun, for instance, is still reflecting approximately the same wavelength of light as the objects in the environment with which it blended in daylight. The difference is that in the dark we pick up more on contrast (light vs. dark shades) than color because of how the photoreceptors in our eyes are placed and their relative sensitivity.

So a white gun in a snowbank blends in day or night. A black gun in a snowbank stands out prominently in daylight and will also be much easier to identify at night because it still contrasts starkly compared to the white background.

[kalikraven]

And my answer to the people that said "Night" FLASHLIGHTS..... If your in a combat situation at night then the enemy just might have flashlights and NVG's so it is still better to blend in with the surrounding environment then to just use black. FDE blends in with more environments than black, because with few exceptions black is not a common color in nature.

[A square 10]

im partial to OD , but that wasnt an option in the poll so i went with basic black - cant go wrong with something in skimpy black

[KiraX105]

Black. Its classic, stylish and reeks sophistication. :)

[BH1]

Basically, things in the dark look like they did in the light, but without the light.

Now that is profound. I think that's the way my parents explained why I didn't really need a nightlight in my bedroom anymore. :D

[DarrinD]

My choice wasn't an option: Whatever you think looks good. . . . . except for military or other operators in Deseert areas of operation, I would guess Tan makes the most sense. And in other areas: FDE or Green depending on environment. I think the tan M4's look cool, but I'm still partial to good ol black for home/urban defense, so Black got my "vote."

[gyp_c2]

Its classic, stylish and reeks sophistication.
...but only after 1700...http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

[RogerinTPA]

Actually, the most common color/visible wave length that humans can predominately see at night is the blue/green spectrum.;) Shades of varying degrees of gray with the unaided Mark1 eyeball (using just rods), depending on the amount of visible light available. Most cities (except for the abandoned building/warehouse/basement) at night have varying degrees of light. My experience is that only deep in a jungle/forest/desert or over a large body of water, will be devoid of light and that only depends on the sky condition. Stars and the moon give off visible light too.

[No Bananas]

Now that is profound. I think that's the way my parents explained why I didn't really need a nightlight in my bedroom anymore. :D


I think Kirax105 makes a good point. Black is stylish and cool:cool: . The cool factor is an important ingredient in my decision here. Yes, I want it to have a practical function, too. Knock on wood that I won't ever have to use it in a SHTF situation and be seriously concerned about camo.

[RadioActivity]

Actually, the most common color/visible wave length that humans can predominately see at night is the blue/green spectrum.;)...

My experience is that only deep in a jungle/forest/desert or over a large body of water, will be devoid of light and that only depends on the sky condition. Stars and the moon give off visible light too.

Yep, green is actually the color seen the best by the eye; Which is why we (United States) chose to render Night vision in green, we could of used any color but chose green as it is seen best by the human eye, as such you can run the output lower (dimmer) and not lose detail. Also I believe blue is the color perceived brightest, ie, for a given lumen a blue light will appear brighter. At least that's my understanding.

Also, the chances of anyone getting in a gun fight in zero illum is not likely. Bad guy is human too, and if you can't see, most likely he can't see, in the same environment. This does not apply as much to .mil applications because of technology available, and can be mitigated to your advantage by adding dynamics to the fight.

Me personally, My AR15 is black. Do you know why? My reasons are two fold. One, its classic, they are after all referred to as "Black Rifles". Second, black is intimidating. If I pulled my AR for home defense I think a big ****in' stark black rifle would get someones attention very well and be instantly distinguished from grand daddy's wingmaster.

I would reckon the reason the military uses black in weapons and gear is because it is inherently non-reflective as black absorbs light.

[Gutshot John]

Now here's an interesting all-around camouflage color choice.

Do you think the marines would look good in pink?

http://www.i-freeware-download.com/web-colors/hex-rgb-hsv-Mountbatten-pink-cId-924.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountbatten_pink

SAS "Pink Panthers" used it to pretty good effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Desert_Group

PS. Given the wiki source I don't vouch for its historic accuracy.

[Failure2Stop]

You know the concept that it takes a real man to wear a pink shirt?
You gotta be a real bad-ass to have a pink rifle.
My vote is for pink.

http://img198.exs.cx/img198/8061/021805dreammachinegun7oo.jpg

GSJ's links prove that it is also tactical in dawn/dusk timeframe.

Be a man- buy a pink gun.

http://www.petenelson.com/Photos/Misc/Guns/AR-15/Pete%20with%20Penelope%20(pink%20AR-15).jpg

[markm]

Well, I'm no camo expert (actually I'm no expert on anything) but I thought that I'd read somewhere that black is actually much easier to pick out at night than certain other colors/patterns.

I read it on the internet so it must be true.

It is true... at least in the desert environment.

In the last low light class I shot, anyone who had black or OD gears stood out like a sore thumb against the very tan dirt of the DPS range. It wasn't a factor for the class, but it was something that I observed on my own.

[RogerinTPA]

You know the concept that it takes a real man to wear a pink shirt?
You gotta be a real bad-ass to have a pink rifle.
My vote is for pink.

http://img198.exs.cx/img198/8061/021805dreammachinegun7oo.jpg

GSJ's links prove that it is also tactical in dawn/dusk timeframe.

Be a man- buy a pink gun.

http://www.petenelson.com/Photos/Misc/Guns/AR-15/Pete%20with%20Penelope%20(pink%20AR-15).jpg

That is soooooooooooo WRONG!

[No Bananas]

http://www.aoqz76.dsl.pipex.com/Web%20Page%20Components/Wallpaper/TV/Homer%20Simpson%20Oh%20No.jpg

Well, I think that's scared me to black. I want my AR to be as far away from that color as possible. I'm not sure FDE is far enough away from that.

[SoDak]

Sorry to bring this thread back, but I was curious about something regarding color. Has anyone ever tested to see the diferences in the temps of black, OD green, and FDE after lying in the sun? I'm thinking about a furniture upgrade and can't decide if I should pick OD green or FDE over black.

[RogerinTPA]

there was a thread some while ago where we went way left. It went down to what colors would blend best in most environments, not stand out at night and through NVDs. I think it was generated because of Larue's new UDE furniture color that set off the discussion. Here https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=18395&highlight=Larue%27s


Sorry to bring this thread back, but I was curious about something regarding color. Has anyone ever tested to see the diferences in the temps of black, OD green, and FDE after lying in the sun? I'm thinking about a furniture upgrade and can't decide if I should pick OD green or FDE over black.

[RogerinTPA]

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