View Full Version : Has anyone tried scoping an SR-15E3 for distance shooting? How'd it go?
I had one of those epiphanies that only comes from spending a two-day rifle class in 91 degree humidity, followed by two hours or so of being thoroughly soaked by torrential thunderstorms.
I love my SR15, it's the best rifle I've ever owned. It's very reliable, fast and the A5 system really makes it a smooth shooter. However, in that class environment it's heavy and it's long, and even though I'm in decent shape, it's fatiguing. In the interest of making life easier on myself I switched to my BCM 11.5" SBR for the second day of the class. I was astounded how much difference a shorter barrel makes. I always intuitively knew there was a difference, but the real life demonstration of the fact really sold me on the idea.
So I'm looking at switching my rifles around. I have a Super Sniper 20x42 scope that I bought several years ago, and had always meant to put a rifle under it, so I figured, "why not"? The KAC already has a nice 2-stage trigger as well.
This potentially solves my rifle role conundrum, saves me from having to buy a "precision" rifle, and makes use of a neglected optic.
Is this a good use of my gear or is the SR15 just not a good choice for this role? It'll be a while before I can get it out to try it.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/BiteyMcClaws/20150613_145111_zpsbv8qvpo5.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/BiteyMcClaws/media/20150613_145111_zpsbv8qvpo5.jpg.html)
If I was setting up an SR-15 in total green space for that, I'd probably opt for a 2.5-10x optic, but yes, absolutely. Worst case, you'll wind up knowing a lot better what the mechanical accuracy potential of that upper is with specific ammo, and be far more comfortable driving your SS 20x; if you really like the concept you'd still have the option of pursuing your original plan (which I'm guessing was a variable powered optic for the SR-15 and the SS on a precise but not absurdly priced bolt gun) and be in good shape to pursue that.
If I was setting up an SR-15 in total green space for that, I'd probably opt for a 2.5-10x optic, but yes, absolutely. Worst case, you'll wind up knowing a lot better what the mechanical accuracy potential of that upper is with specific ammo, and be far more comfortable driving your SS 20x; if you really like the concept you'd still have the option of pursuing your original plan (which I'm guessing was a variable powered optic for the SR-15 and the SS on a precise but not absurdly priced bolt gun) and be in good shape to pursue that.
The SR15 previously had a 1-4x optic on it which admittedly didn't help the weight much, but it was really versatile. I am interested to see how well the gun prints with "too much scope".
I've scoped many SR-15s to see how well they could do, even though most shot well, most ended with an Aimpoint or Eotech in the end. The Short Dot 1-4, mk6, and mk8 are heavier and are not as easy to swing around. I would use the 1x for a carbine class most any day over a variable. The different barrel lengths and optics preference depends on how the class was set up.
I threw a scope on my SR-15 for fun and to record a baseline of the rifle while it was still new. It produced groups ranging in 0.47 to 0.66 MOA ATC at 100 yards with various factory ammo. My 18'' stainless Mk-12 (Centurion) barreled SPR with the same scope produced 0.28 - 0.45 MOA ATC groupings with somewhat similar (but not the same) factory ammo. My worst groupings with the SR-15 were definitely larger than the worst groupings through the SPR. I only measure groupings in ATC (Average to Center). In summary, the SR-15 was not as precise, but I think if the right load was developed for the individual rifle there would be somewhat acceptable results for a DMR / semi precision rifle.
I'm currently working on reloading so that I can really see what my Mk-12 barreled SPR is capable of.
Boba Fett v2
06-13-15, 19:17
My first SR15 was equipped with a 1-6x scope. While versatile, I found that the gun lost what made it appealing in the first place, which was its ultra-lightweight profile. Ultimately, I found the H1/T1 to be my preferred optic of choice for the rifle.
My first SR15 was equipped with a 1-6x scope. While versatile, I found that the gun lost what made it appealing in the first place, which was its ultra-lightweight profile. Ultimately, I found the H1/T1 to be my preferred optic of choice for the rifle.
Ultimately the same thing happened to me. I put a 1.25 x 4 Leupold on mine for a while, but it was kind of a role confusing situation. Going forward I'm not sure that I'll even be keeping the Sr-15, not because I don't love it, but because I have other rifles that fill out specific roles very well. The KAC does everything pretty well, but the inherent compromise on doing everything well means that it does nothing exceptionally better than other options. I would like to see a more formal precision effort though; I'll be watching the thread to see what the community comes up with.
It all depends what you want and expect from your carbines.
All our SR15s are set-up with an USO SR6s. Flexibility and reliability is more important to us than benchers accuracy.
Yes, these optics are heavy, but optical clarity and toughness make up for this.
At 2 to 3,000 round counts, they still group within 1.25" at 100 yards with good ammo.
My SR-15- it is just the upper on a standard lower with an A5- I have only took it out to 200 yards so far but I get good groups. I will be shooting it out to 400 yards soon and will see how it goes.
I think I'm seeing some the the OP's point. We take for granted that we can swing around a light 16" carbine, many cannot. I have friends and family that can't for various reasons. When they end up having one, does it make sense to add magnification to place it into another role, especially since they already own it? I believe it can do that, the precision is well enough for most. The exception would making comparisons to dedicated match rifle paper punchers.
I'm sure it will do great in an SPR role. 1.5 MOA is 9" at 600 yds, plenty accurate for the role, and with ammo it really likes it should do better than that.
That oughta be a "Full IPSC" Killer in the right hands, with the right ammo and optic, out to 400-500y with minimal effort.
My wife's build using a Palmetto blemish barrel, scoped with a cheap Vortex scope, will smoke a 12" circle at 500yd with boring consistency. I certainly would hope that a KAC could do that. It's more about calling the wind than anything with a reasonably accurate scoped AR.
I ran my first Mod 1 as DMR setup if you will for a while. I had the KAC 45 degree offset irons and a Leupold MK6 1-6x on it. While I found the look appealing and the theoretical diversity reassuring it just never played out in reality the way that I saw it in my head or on paper. The SR-15's biggest attribute is its balance and light weight, throwing a 2+lb optic/mount combo on top totally negated that and changed its handling characteristics in a negative way imho. Like the others I found the T1 to be the best match for it; others may like the EXPS EoTech.
Right now I have a Mod 1 with a TA-31 (4x) Acog on it and while the shorter eye relief hinders my speed at times I find it faster overall for minute of man hits within 300m when compared to the 1-6x. I'll try running it hard in my next class before I consider trying a variable or red dot on it again.
I love the capability of my SR15 with the MK6. I accepted the weight and am now use to it. My lighter rifle is my BCM KMR.
I was able to make pretty consistent hits at 500yds on a 12" plate. So I'm happy with the setup.
The SR-15's biggest attribute is its balance and light weight, throwing a 2+lb optic/mount combo on top totally negated that and changed its handling characteristics in a negative way imho. Like the others I found the T1 to be the best match for it; others may like the EXPS EoTech.
Right now I have a Mod 1 with a TA-31 (4x) Acog on it and while the shorter eye relief hinders my speed at times I find it faster overall for minute of man hits within 300m when compared to the 1-6x. I'll try running it hard in my next class before I consider trying a variable or red dot on it again.
The MK6 is 17 ounces, you'd have to look real hard to find a 17 ounce mount to get you to 2+ lbs. What did you mount the scope with? A brick and duct tape?:D
Larue LT120 is less than 8 ounces.
I threw a scope on my SR-15 for fun and to record a baseline of the rifle while it was still new. It produced groups ranging in 0.47 to 0.66 MOA ATC at 100 yards with various factory ammo. My 18'' stainless Mk-12 (Centurion) barreled SPR with the same scope produced 0.28 - 0.45 MOA ATC groupings with somewhat similar (but not the same) factory ammo. My worst groupings with the SR-15 were definitely larger than the worst groupings through the SPR. I only measure groupings in ATC (Average to Center). In summary, the SR-15 was not as precise, but I think if the right load was developed for the individual rifle there would be somewhat acceptable results for a DMR / semi precision rifle.
I'm currently working on reloading so that I can really see what my Mk-12 barreled SPR is capable of.
So you think your SPR would produce better than .28 MOA if you reload?
I think a better representation of capability is to start shooting at minimum 5 shot groups. I don't know what you're shooting now but I find it hard to believe a gas gun shoots that accurate. That level of accuracy would rival the best mechanical accuracy of top of the line precision bolt guns.
OP there is nothing wrong with adding some magnification to a CL SR-15 even if you're shooting 1-2 MOA with good ammo its still accurate enough for the cartridge limitations.
So you think your SPR would produce better than .28 MOA if you reload?
I think a better representation of capability is to start shooting at minimum 5 shot groups. I don't know what you're shooting now but I find it hard to believe a gas gun shoots that accurate. That level of accuracy would rival the best mechanical accuracy of top of the line precision bolt guns.
OP there is nothing wrong with adding some magnification to a CL SR-15 even if you're shooting 1-2 MOA with good ammo its still accurate enough for the cartridge limitations.He stated that's Average To Center, not extreme spread. I believe it's the same thing as Mean Radius, which Molon uses in his evaluations. My recollection is that extreme spread on 10 shot groups is usually around 3 times mean radius, so using numbers you're used to he's getting around .8MOA. Still a great group, but not absurd like .28.
He stated that's Average To Center, not extreme spread. I believe it's the same thing as Mean Radius, which Molon uses in his evaluations. My recollection is that extreme spread on 10 shot groups is usually around 3 times mean radius, so using numbers you're used to he's getting around .8MOA. Still a great group, but not absurd like .28.
Thanks for the explanation I looked further into ATC and seems like it has its application during load development ect. I'd like to discuss/research it further but I know this isn't the thread for it.
What do you normally use the gun for?
Classes are just training.
To me, the capability of a magnified optic far outweighs the weight.
End use determines if or how much magnification is required. For some a 1x red dot is required, for others a 4x, 6x, etc is required. I would tend to recommend not using more magnification than what is necessary for the application.
A red dot sight is actually a 0x optic. It's a tube with plain glass- no focus, no erector set, no eye relief. No more a 1x optic than your ordinary window pane.
You hit the main crux of the issue- what the rifle will be used for determines what optic is suitable. In fact, sight choice is more important to end use than barrel length, trigger choice or furniture
End results is what is important.
A 0x sight would be an infinite spot that is too small to see, 1x is the actual magnification of a simple red dot, as in no magnification. The number before the "x" is the numerical multiplier. Zero is just that, 1x is the same as normal eyes, 2x is double the amplification.
Okay guys, DO NOT EMAIL ME DIRECT, either PM or or make a post. I may haven't used the best terminology. It would have been better to say "magnification", let it go.
End use determines if or how much magnification is required. For some a 1x red dot is required, for others a 4x, 6x, etc is required. I would tend to recommend not using more magnification than what is necessary for the application.
Yep. Too much magnification on the low end is worse than not enough on the top. I use an NXS1-4 with turrets and have no problem making good hits out 500-600yards.
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