View Full Version : A Visual Comparison of the H&K VP9 to the Glock 19
A Visual Comparison of the H&K VP9 to the Glock 19
https://app.box.com/shared/static/zjpqr6rj6bba64m6yls5ehq0dn205s0n.jpg
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The "stepped" chamber of the VP9 barrel . . .
https://app.box.com/shared/static/rrt8u05qexf225fnhs9mzhvgakqgqn37.jpg
The two cases on each end were fired from the VP9 . . .
https://app.box.com/shared/static/ovmzh15twb3e3djc6eyhoy9lg86xdnpw.jpg
And a little bit of data . . .
https://app.box.com/shared/static/k9ujspyehpk00ba0yrcqowp4emugeivl.jpg
The VP9 at 25 Yards.
Using match-grade hand-loads topped with the Hornady 125 grain HAP bullet and shooting off the bench, my VP9 turned in a 10-shot group that had an extreme spread of 1.6”.
https://app.box.com/shared/static/nz2rrdxc33iy2muthu45kn7hdd3cxeyk.jpg
The VP9 at 50 yards.
Just for kicks and giggles I fired some statistically insignificant 6-shot groups from my VP at a distance of 50 yards. Using one of my best 9x19mm hand-loads topped with the Hornady 125 grain HAP bullet, I fired seven, 6-shot groups in a row from the bench. The average extreme spread for the seven groups was 2.40”.
The cherry-picked group of the bunch is pictured below. The group has an extreme spread of 1.52”.
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https://app.box.com/shared/static/q7bo5zcceiqddxrmcpm3ne8ie940o56n.jpg
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Very cool. I do wish they made the VP9 a tiny bit smaller like the G19. I've never shot a pistol as well as I do my VP9 but it's just odd with the size/capacity compared to my G19 and my M&P 9
Phillygunguy
06-14-15, 21:36
Nice thanks for the information
Excuse me if you have earlier offered an explanation/opinion of the stepped chamber, but what is your opinion?
I've heard it seals better than a tapered chamber - theoretically the reason for the higher velocity out of the HK, although the polygonal rifling in the Glock probably has something to do with this also.
I've also heard that it (stepped chamber) doesn't handle less ductile steel and aluminum cases as well as a tapered chamber.
In addition, I've also heard claims of increased accuracy.
What are your thoughts?
Thanks!
Coal Dragger
06-15-15, 04:03
The step in the chamber is part of the original specification drafted by Georg Luger, for the purpose of improving the gas seal on the tapered 9×19mm case. There may be a possibility of difficult extraction with steel or aluminum cases, but since most are coated these days with a low friction finish I doubt it would be an issue.
Fordtough25
06-15-15, 06:22
Thanks for the pictures and thoughts! I purchased a VP9 shortly after they were released but I didn't feel that it did anything my G19 didn't do as well. I ran them both side by side for a while and decided to sell the VP9, I don't regret it. The HK was a fine pistol but mag capacity versus size, mag price, mag release, were detractors for me personally.
There is a 2 mm difference in barrel length (102 mm for the G19 vs 104 mm for the VP9), and this should account for about 5 fps. So the stepped chamber does add a little bit of velocity, or at least it does in this sample of one...
What are your thoughts?
It works!
https://app.box.com/shared/static/hxv0wcbewihyzmi6xdab.jpg
.....
this is only an issue as far as my training budget is concerned....
But does anyone has any experience or insight as to how that stepped chamber effects brass life in terms of reloading? I'm not sure I have ever worn out pistol brass it gets lost before that generally...
- Chumly
Cincinnatus
06-18-15, 13:40
this is only an issue as far as my training budget is concerned....
But does anyone has any experience or insight as to how that stepped chamber effects brass life in terms of reloading? I'm not sure I have ever worn out pistol brass it gets lost before that generally...
- Chumly
I also would like to know if it has any effects on life of reloaded brass.
I also would like to know if it has any effects on life of reloaded brass.
I've reloaded a bunch of it, No problems, I've even reloaded a bunch that was shot in my G17, and ran it through myVP9, again no problems.
Thanks for the pictures and thoughts! I purchased a VP9 shortly after they were released but I didn't feel that it did anything my G19 didn't do as well. I ran them both side by side for a while and decided to sell the VP9, I don't regret it. The HK was a fine pistol but mag capacity versus size, mag price, mag release, were detractors for me personally.
I did the same thing except I traded the VP9 for a NIB Gen4 G19. I already had a gen2 and Gen3.
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When I went back to polymer I test drove a VP9 against a Gen4 19 and went with the 19. Still glad I made that choice over 10K rounds later.
Fordtough25
09-09-15, 05:43
I did the same thing except I traded the VP9 for a NIB Gen4 G19. I already had a gen2 and Gen3.
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Good call, I still have a want for a Gen4 myself. :)
brickboy240
09-09-15, 11:46
Has the brass to face issue been totally put to bed?
That alone has had me thinking of maybe a P320 or PPQ next and not another 9mm Glock.
My 3rd gen G19 is now trouble free but man...the steps it took to get it there was a crazy venture.
After I bought my first HK VP9, I sold the 2 Glock 19's that I owned and bought a 2nd VP9. Both Glock 19's were accurate and easy enough to shoot, but both regularly ejected the brass at my forehead which I found unacceptable. The VP9 was accurate right out of the box with no modifications and ejects the brass at about the 3:30 position in a nice pile. The VP9 is my main conceal carry firearm and it seems to be easy enough for me to conceal, no problems here.
brickboy240
09-09-15, 15:02
The only part of the VP-9 I did not care for was the surface of the trigger. If I had to shoot one in a match or in an extended plinking session...I could see how that trigger might rub a blister or cause irritation on my trigger finger.
Just a guess but the only real flaw I could see int he VP-9.
I did the same thing except I traded the VP9 for a NIB Gen4 G19. I already had a gen2 and Gen3.
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Sure wish I had met you before the guy you traded with. I have a NIB Gen 4 Model 19 born on date of January 2013. Since I already have two G19s in service I would have traded it for a slightly used VP9 in a heartbeat.
Has the brass to face issue been totally put to bed?
That alone has had me thinking of maybe a P320 or PPQ next and not another 9mm Glock.
My 3rd gen G19 is now trouble free but man...the steps it took to get it there was a crazy venture.
No, I don't think the brass to face has been totally fixed. My two Gen 4 Model 19s had severe BTF issues, like at least 3-4 hot empties in my face every single magazine full. Both had all the latest Glock parts. I went through a lot of trouble and time, trying every fix suggested on the Glock forums, but none of them worked. I finally fixed it a few months ago with an Apex extractor kit. Both have run with no BTF issues since the Apex installation.
I have owned and shot various Glock models for 20 years and never had a single BTF issue until I bought the two Gen 4 Model 19s. I like my G19s now that they are fixed, but these two will be the last Glocks I ever buy.
brickboy240
09-10-15, 10:04
I too had BTF issues but with a 3rd gen G19 bought in April 2012. Luckily, the gen4 ejector and Apex extractor cured the problems. Odd thing was...my BTF issues did not show up UNTIL I had about 800rds through the gun. It just started tossing 2-3 pieces of brass per mag, straight at my forehead. Jarring...to say the least! LOL
The fact that this is still hanging around has me looking hard at the P320 for my next 9mm.
I love my G19 but do not want to go through that mess again.
Has the brass to face issue been totally put to bed?
It has not. I had a recent FDE Gen. 4 26 that had a failure to eject right out of the box. I got an Apex extractor which helped, but even filing down the fitting pad to almost nothing didn't get it to the point where it would engage the case rim tightly, and certain rounds would slide out from under the extractor as soon as I started pulling the slide back.
I continue to be impressed with the size-efficiency of the Glock 19.
Phillygunguy
09-11-15, 18:55
I have one gen4 glock 19 with an apex extractor a little north of 5000rds unfortunately I have 3 other glocks 19 and two17s that I was unable to fix btf
I now have 2 VP 9s and shoot them better. I have 2300 rds no issues, and is now my edc
KingsideRook
09-11-15, 19:07
I continue to be impressed with the size-efficiency of the Glock 19.
Just what I was thinking. Whether you download the mags or not, it's an easy way to get 15 or 16 9mm rounds under a t-shirt. I like a lot of things about the VP9, but it's not as svelte.
My vp9 has quickly become my favorite handgun. I shoot it best and with the grip work it's received from fowler industries it also feels the best. My Glock 19 would be a close second. I just need h&k to make a vp9 between the 26 and 19 size wise and I could sell all of my glocks without remorse.
My vp9 has quickly become my favorite handgun. I shoot it best and with the grip work it's received from fowler industries it also feels the best. My Glock 19 would be a close second. I just need h&k to make a vp9 between the 26 and 19 size wise and I could sell all of my glocks without remorse.
What grip work did you have done?
What grip work did you have done?
http://www.enhancedprecisionproducts.com/product/h-k-vp9
Has the brass to face issue been totally put to bed?
That alone has had me thinking of maybe a P320 or PPQ next and not another 9mm Glock.
My 3rd gen G19 is now trouble free but man...the steps it took to get it there was a crazy venture.
No it has not. I bought a NIB Grey Gen 4 G19 this summer, BTF right out of the box.. send it to Glock and all they did was replace ejector, recoil spring, and I think, (I'm going off memory) striker.. Took it back out to the range.. same thing, nothing changed. Call Glock again, and they act as if they could care less. Bought a Apex Gen 4 extractor, That didn't quite do it either, I call Apex, They tell me to try a Gen 3 extractor in a Gen 4 pistol and send one to me to try, It pretty much worked, I still get a BTH (Brass to the head) once in a while. Pistol is now works and is useable, no thanks to Glock.. Problem for me is, I shoot Glocks better, faster, than anything else I own, including my VP9's...
http://www.enhancedprecisionproducts.com/product/h-k-vp9
Thanks, which stippling did you go with if you don't mind me asking?
I wish there was some way to try out the different textures. I guess with the VP9 you can just send the side panels in and worst case scenario is you buy yourself a new set of OEM panels if you don't like it.
I've been going back and forth on getting something done to my P2000 though, it's just that like I said, I wish I can compare the textures in person.
I went with the medium and am very happy with it. I went ahead and had the side panels and backstop permanently blended in. I have two glocks with them currently getting the ENT texture.
I have a Gen 3 G19 and a Gen 4 G17. No BTF with either...no FTFs. Both run flawlessly.
TheChunkNorris
11-16-15, 11:30
I'm actually surprised none of the H&K guys have added that there's a Ultra Match trigger kit for the VP9... it reduces the trigger pull by 2lbs, only costs 20.00 and takes about 20-40mins to install. Glocks are solid pistols, I'm a H&K guy to the core too so I'll side with the VP9. The ergonomics on the VP9 are arguably better, VP9 has a better OE trigger, and they're similar in price which was a huge negative on the USP concerning the H&K vs Glock argument. I've shot both and found the VP9 a better overall value and no one can argue H&K's pedigree on polymer and striker fired pistols.
Didn't realize there was a match trigger out there. Who sells it??
I love my VP9 but in all honesty the G19 is probably the most size efficient gun out there. Too bad Glock had to screw it up with the BTF thing they refuse to solve. With the release of the P30SK, I'm shocked that nobody is chopping grips on the VP9 and creating their own version of a Compact. Short trip full sized barrel seems like a lot of win, especially if it will still run standard mags.
TheChunkNorris
11-16-15, 12:01
Didn't realize there was a match trigger out there. Who sells it??
I love my VP9 but in all honesty the G19 is probably the most size efficient gun out there. Too bad Glock had to screw it up with the BTF thing they refuse to solve. With the release of the P30SK, I'm shocked that nobody is chopping grips on the VP9 and creating their own version of a Compact. Short trip full sized barrel seems like a lot of win, especially if it will still run standard mags.
HKparts.net sells them. The rumor is a VP9SK is in the mix now so we'll see. The dimensions on the G19 and the VP9 are virtually identical expect for the weight and width of the slide. Don't understand why people would say... "they fixed the problem so it's ok" argument vs "there wasn't a problem to begin with so buy me" argument. I'm not hating on Glock but pointing out in this particular case the VP9 is a better pistol for the masses. Glock is killing everyone in the CCW market with the G43 and that's an awesome piece. Wish HK would make a single stack Compact or Sub compact though.
The dimensions on the G19 and the VP9 are virtually identical expect for the weight and width of the slide.
Not so much. This pic as well as the First pic in the OP show otherwise.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/16/38cb8252e9468e493e40e04fecfc7155.jpg
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HKparts.net sells them. The rumor is a VP9SK is in the mix now so we'll see. The dimensions on the G19 and the VP9 are virtually identical expect for the weight and width of the slide. Don't understand why people would say... "they fixed the problem so it's ok" argument vs "there wasn't a problem to begin with so buy me" argument. I'm not hating on Glock but pointing out in this particular case the VP9 is a better pistol for the masses. Glock is killing everyone in the CCW market with the G43 and that's an awesome piece. Wish HK would make a single stack Compact or Sub compact though.
Thanks. I'll have to check out the trigger. As the poster above shows; the VP9 is a bit longer in the grip (top or rear sight to end of mag) dimension than the G19. It's still concealable, but the shorter grip is definitely a would be nice.
How does the walther ppq compare to the G19?
How does the walther ppq compare to the G19?
The PPQ has better trigger and ergos and is a little bigger and has a higher bore axis.
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TheChunkNorris
11-16-15, 22:48
Thanks. I'll have to check out the trigger. As the poster above shows; the VP9 is a bit longer in the grip (top or rear sight to end of mag) dimension than the G19. It's still concealable, but the shorter grip is definitely a would be nice.
It's an cheap and easy upgrade... truth be told my car weapon is a P7M8 and my house weapon is a USP 9mm Custom Combat with a Match LEM but I do shoot the VP9 often.
Not so much. This pic as well as the First pic in the OP show otherwise.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/16/38cb8252e9468e493e40e04fecfc7155.jpg
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For some reason that didn't load for me... you can def see how longer it is in the grip.
Not so much. This pic as well as the First pic in the OP show otherwise.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/16/38cb8252e9468e493e40e04fecfc7155.jpg
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That's my experience as well, The VP9 has a G17 grip length, with a G19 sized slide, I have two VP9's a G17, and a G19, which one do I EDC? The g19...If HK would get their head out of their ass and make a G19 sized pistol that takes P-2000 mags that would sell like hotcakes.. But no, what's HK going to do? Come out with another SK to directly compete with the other two SK's the already make (P-2000sk, P-30sk) As has been said before..HK couldn't market free sex.. I'm somewhat interested in a possible VP45 if they make one, and I'd like to see a VP9c, But until then, HK's not getting another dime of my money.
TheChunkNorris
11-17-15, 08:36
That's my experience as well, The VP9 has a G17 grip length, with a G19 sized slide, I have two VP9's a G17, and a G19, which one do I EDC? The g19...If HK would get their head out of their ass and make a G19 sized pistol that takes P-2000 mags that would sell like hotcakes.. But no, what's HK going to do? Come out with another SK to directly compete with the other two SK's the already make (P-2000sk, P-30sk) As has been said before..HK couldn't market free sex.. I'm somewhat interested in a possible VP45 if they make one, and I'd like to see a VP9c, But until then, HK's not getting another dime of my money.
Don't see how that'll work with P2000 mags which are the same as USPC mags. You can use P2000 mags in a P2000SK with the X-grip filler which would essentially be what you're trying to describe.
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Don't see how that'll work with P2000 mags which are the same as USPC mags. You can use P2000 mags in a P2000SK with the X-grip filler which would essentially be what you're trying to describe.
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What I'm trying to say is a lot of people don't want a SK or a SK with some silly assed grip extender. They want a compact. And something that took P-2000 mags would fit that description. Think of a VP9 with about 1/2" shaved off the grip..(close to G19 grip length) now you're talking. There's at least one person who shaved a VP9 to take P-2000 mags, and it worked out just fine.. So, it can be done. HK just needs to take the hint. Just so you know, P-30 mags will also work in a P-2000, I tried it.
TheChunkNorris
11-18-15, 09:36
What I'm trying to say is a lot of people don't want a SK or a SK with some silly assed grip extender. They want a compact. And something that took P-2000 mags would fit that description. Think of a VP9 with about 1/2" shaved off the grip..(close to G19 grip length) now you're talking.
Interestingly enough the USP Compact and G19 dimensionally are identical:
G19:
Length - 185mm
Height - 127mm
Width - 30mm
Barrel Length - 102mm
USP Compact 9:
Length - 173mm
Height - 127mm
Width - 35mm
Barrel Length - 91mm
What I'm saying is the P2000 came after the USP Compact and the USP Compact and the P2000 share magazines. The P2000 is also larger in all aspects except for the width being 34mm to the USPC's 35mm. The only thing that is "better" is the sight radius on the P2000. The one really good thing about the USPC is you can drop in a Match/LEM hybrid kit which will smooth out the SA to about 4lbs and DA to 7.5lbs. As for the SK, Look at how insanely well pocket pistols are selling now!
Interestingly enough the USP Compact and G19 dimensionally are identical:
G19:
Length - 185mm
Height - 127mm
Width - 30mm
Barrel Length - 102mm
USP Compact 9:
Length - 173mm
Height - 127mm
Width - 35mm
Barrel Length - 91mm
What I'm saying is the P2000 came after the USP Compact and the USP Compact and the P2000 share magazines. The P2000 is also larger in all aspects except for the width being 34mm to the USPC's 35mm. The only thing that is "better" is the sight radius on the P2000. The one really good thing about the USPC is you can drop in a Match/LEM hybrid kit which will smooth out the SA to about 4lbs and DA to 7.5lbs. As for the SK, Look at how insanely well pocket pistols are selling now!
Chuck;
As someone who own 6 HK's I understand the linage of the USP/P-2000, What I'm saying is for HK to produce a striker-fired VP9 about the same size as a G19/P-2000 (which ever is easier) instead of a SK something... As it's more practical. I don't have any way of knowing how well picket pistols are, or are not selling. I question the validity of the idea, as I've always looked at them as a BUG, and not as a serious EDC. It would be interesting to see who are buying these things, people who know exactly what they're getting into, or somebody who just got his CCl and spots one at a gunshop, and thinks that'll work simply because of it's size.
Let's also not forget that HK is currently making two other SK's as well, putting a third in the line up striker fired or not, would be redundant. I've read on this board that HK has lost at least one LE contract for the VP9 to Sig, simply because they didn't have a compact version available, and they couldn't say when they would. Sig did have one, and it was available..
TheChunkNorris
11-18-15, 10:19
Chuck;
As someone who own 6 HK's I understand the linage of the USP/P-2000, What I'm saying is for HK to produce a striker-fired VP9 about the same size as a G19/P-2000 (which ever is easier) instead of a SK something... As it's more practical. I don't have any way of knowing how well picket pistols are, or are not selling. I question the validity of the idea, as I've always looked at them as a BUG, and not as a serious EDC. It would be interesting to see who are buying these things, people who know exactly what they're getting into, or somebody who just got his CCl and spots one at a gunshop, and thinks that'll work simply because of it's size.
I agree on the terms for the SK and Pocket pistols... I personally don't own a pocket pistol and my EDC would be my P7M8. I'm not questioning your H&K knowledge but as you know they don't build stuff for the sake of building them especially now that the German Gov't is killing them slowly. I really think they'll expand the VP line past the V40 here in the near future so who knows, maybe they'll make a G19ish VP. I'm never home for SHOT so I patiently sit here google what I can.
I agree on the terms for the SK and Pocket pistols... I personally don't own a pocket pistol and my EDC would be my P7M8. I'm not questioning your H&K knowledge but as you know they don't build stuff for the sake of building them especially now that the German Gov't is killing them slowly. I really think they'll expand the VP line past the V40 here in the near future so who knows, maybe they'll make a G19ish VP. I'm never home for SHOT so I patiently sit here google what I can.
I'm somewhat interested in a VP45.. I'd like to see what HK comes up with.. I remember reading on HK pro, a post by someone with some connections at HK who stated that the idea with the VP9 was to make a series of striker fired pistols in 9mm, .40, .45, fullsize pistols first, and then possibly compacts, SK's. They've already brought out a VP9,and.40, It's anybody's guess what comes out next. A friend of mine recently bought a VP9 and the serial # was over 60,000, considering that HK had originally planned on bringing in about 35,000 and going from there depending on sales, I'd say the VP9 was, from a sales standpoint alone a success, and so far, pretty much problem-free as well.
WickedWillis
11-18-15, 14:56
I'm somewhat interested in a VP45.. I'd like to see what HK comes up with.. I remember reading on HK pro, a post by someone with some connections at HK who stated that the idea with the VP9 was to make a series of striker fired pistols in 9mm, .40, .45, fullsize pistols first, and then possibly compacts, SK's. They've already brought out a VP9,and.40, It's anybody's guess what comes out next. A friend of mine recently bought a VP9 and the serial # was over 60,000, considering that HK had originally planned on bringing in about 35,000 and going from there depending on sales, I'd say the VP9 was, from a sales standpoint alone a success, and so far, pretty much problem-free as well.
The VP series has been a huge success for HK. As was the P30SK. The last three handguns they have released have been absolute hits. I am sure, like you said, they will follow suite with the VP45, a compact VP9. and possibly a VP9L for those of us that enjoy the P30L. These also hit a price point that HK doesn't typically venture into, and i feel that is the biggest reason for the success. Not to mention they are fantastic handguns all the way around. I sure pray HK starts doing this with their rifles though.......:)
The VP series has been a huge success for HK. As was the P30SK. The last three handguns they have released have been absolute hits. I am sure, like you said, they will follow suite with the VP45, a compact VP9. and possibly a VP9L for those of us that enjoy the P30L. These also hit a price point that HK doesn't typically venture into, and i feel that is the biggest reason for the success. Not to mention they are fantastic handguns all the way around. I sure pray HK starts doing this with their rifles though.......:)
Keep in mind though I've read a couple threads over at HK pro, and word on the street is HK is going to raise prices once VP9 production resumes next year (2016). If true, (and really, who knows?) I think that would be a huge mistake, as you said, the price point was one of the reasons they sold as well as they did. Raising the price by say $75-100 would in my opinion be detrimental to sales.. But, we'll see.. Nobody knows what those simpletons in Germany (HK) are going to do next, Hell, half the time they don't even know.. They seem to like to fly by the seat of their pants..
Keep in mind though I've read a couple threads over at HK pro, and word on the street is HK is going to raise prices once VP9 production resumes next year (2016). If true, (and really, who knows?) I think that would be a huge mistake, as you said, the price point was one of the reasons they sold as well as they did. Raising the price by say $75-100 would in my opinion be detrimental to sales.. But, we'll see.. Nobody knows what those simpletons in Germany (HK) are going to do next, Hell, half the time they don't even know.. They seem to like to fly by the seat of their pants..
Honestly though, next year is not going to be a fun year for gun prices all around.
WickedWillis
11-18-15, 18:04
Honestly though, next year is not going to be a fun year for gun prices all around.
Yeah that is a very good point. Buy now lol
TheChunkNorris
11-19-15, 02:11
I'm somewhat interested in a VP45.. I'd like to see what HK comes up with.. I remember reading on HK pro, a post by someone with some connections at HK who stated that the idea with the VP9 was to make a series of striker fired pistols in 9mm, .40, .45, fullsize pistols first, and then possibly compacts, SK's. They've already brought out a VP9,and.40, It's anybody's guess what comes out next. A friend of mine recently bought a VP9 and the serial # was over 60,000, considering that HK had originally planned on bringing in about 35,000 and going from there depending on sales, I'd say the VP9 was, from a sales standpoint alone a success, and so far, pretty much problem-free as well.
So far what they've done has worked. They do extensive R&D unlike some other manufactures because they bid all their weapons for LEO and Military contracts... seems to me these decisions were made long ago and we're seeing the fruition of their labor now. France is looking to replace the FAMAS and H&K bid for 90,000 HK416A5 units and I think the other big name is the SCAR 16. The next big thing in the mix is the SP5K(MP5K/SP89) that looks like will be available in the future. With the combination of pistols and rifles that potentially may make it here... I'm actually excited.
Well, living in Kalifornia limits my ability to buy a VP9---not on their stupid "Safety List" and can't get on due to lack of mircostamping. So I continue to shoot my P30S, my P2000 and my P2000sk---all in 9mm---the first two DA/SA---the sk "light" LEM---these are working fine for me…
The regular P2000 is just about the same size as the G19 especially with the flat floor plates on the magazines---it remains one of my favorite pistols!
A 2 lb. trigger on a carry gun? Not gonna happen around here!
High Altitude
11-24-15, 18:14
So many people, including myself, think the G19 is the ideal size pistol, amazes me more manufactures don't design pistols the same size.
It also amazes me that after over 25 years, no one has made a pistol as light and as simple with as few parts as the glock.
So many people, including myself, think the G19 is the ideal size pistol, amazes me more manufactures don't design pistols the same size.
It also amazes me that after over 25 years, no one has made a pistol as light and as simple with as few parts as the glock.
2015 - 1982 = 33 years!
Truly a benchmark design.
I'm with you guys on the VP9c. That would be the perfect carry gun for me. I also want to see a VP9T and a VP45CT.
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johnnywitt
11-26-15, 14:16
Honestly though, next year is not going to be a fun year for gun prices all around.
Why do you say that. The Dollar has been strengthening against pretty much all currencies and the Euro Dollar has been going down with Draghi QE'ing. Hell, not too long ago the Euro was almost >40% stronger and now it's almost a parity with the Greenback! Now, it could just as easily go one way as the other, but for now at least, it's looking good to me as far as prices on European Euro produced Goods next year. Sorry for the Thread Drift & back to topic, I like my Glock's, but if HK would make a 19 sized Weapon, i would buy one for the Wife. Glock Grip a no go for her without Mods. Can't argue with the HK Quality either. The Glock quality control these days... well the fact you have to go to another Company's Product to fix your product isn't good. I hope Glock can get back to what got them where they are today.
TheChunkNorris
11-27-15, 00:10
Why do you say that. The Dollar has been strengthening against pretty much all currencies and the Euro Dollar has been going down with Draghi QE'ing. Hell, not too long ago the Euro was almost >40% stronger and now it's almost a parity with the Greenback! Now, it could just as easily go one way as the other, but for now at least, it's looking good to me as far as prices on European Euro produced Goods next year. Sorry for the Thread Drift & back to topic, I like my Glock's, but if HK would make a 19 sized Weapon, i would buy one for the Wife. Glock Grip a no go for her without Mods. Can't argue with the HK Quality either. The Glock quality control these days... well the fact you have to go to another Company's Product to fix your product isn't good. I hope Glock can get back to what got them where they are today.
Elections are coming up and Clinton is in the mix.
Not sure if you guys saw, but.......
The VP9sk and the VP9 Tactical are now realities. They are discussed in the German catalog that came out recently.
Not sure if you guys saw, but.......
The VP9sk and the VP9 Tactical are now realities. They are discussed in the German catalog that came out recently.
I read a thread about that over at HKpro, But, being discussed in a German magazine is one thing, When/if they actually hit the dealer's shelves here in the U.S. that'll be another..Myself, I've NO use for a SK anything. I'll just stick with my G19, and on occasion, I'll carry my VP9...
What's the Tactical model? Just longer barrel?
Cincinnatus
11-28-15, 22:19
What's the Tactical model? Just longer barrel?
From HK's other tactical models, it would mean threaded barrel for a suppressor.
TheChunkNorris
11-29-15, 01:29
From HK's other tactical models, it would mean threaded barrel for a suppressor.
Different recoil spring assembly and suppressor sights too.
Different recoil spring assembly and suppressor sights too.
Different recoil spring assembly, maybe.. Suppressor sights? No, just the standard sights. I've got two tactical's A OD green HK45t, and a .45ct neither came with suppressor sights from the factory..
TheChunkNorris
11-29-15, 06:57
Different recoil spring assembly, maybe.. Suppressor sights? No, just the standard sights. I've got two tactical's A HK45t, and a .45ct neither came with suppressor sights from the factory..
HK45/T/CT do not come with tall sights and only with Tritium sights. Mark 23s and Tactical USPs(minus the CT) come with tall sights... hence the term "Tactical Sights". USP Tacticals come with tall sights and adjustable rear sites. HK45s have the same recoil spring for both the Tactical and Standard model because their recoil spring is stiffer to begin with. HK45s are just bigger so all the way around so they went with a stiffer spring. There is no "maybe" about the recoil spring... that's a fact for USPt models:
Standard Recoil Spring:
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Recoil-Assembly-Complete-for-HK-USP-45-200p1161.htm
Tactical recoil Spring:
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Recoil-Assembly-Complete-for-HK-USP-Tactical-Expert-200p1160.htm
USP9 SD
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/fd908178b779c57dd1fbc1ed1cce070f.jpg
USP 45 Tan Tactical
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/a9406ba1ead249e71626252c23a941ac.jpg
The center Tan USP does not have Tall sights
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/2073ef0166a414122d557130dc2368fc.jpg
HK45/T/CT do not come with tall sights and only with Tritium sights. Mark 23s and Tactical USPs(minus the CT) come with tall sights... hence the term "Tactical Sights". USP Tacticals come with tall sights and adjustable rear sites. HK45s have the same recoil spring for both the Tactical and Standard model because their recoil spring is stiffer to begin with. HK45s are just bigger so all the way around so they went with a stiffer spring. There is no "maybe" about the recoil spring... that's a fact for USPt models:
Standard Recoil Spring:
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Recoil-Assembly-Complete-for-HK-USP-45-200p1161.htm
Tactical recoil Spring:
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Recoil-Assembly-Complete-for-HK-USP-Tactical-Expert-200p1160.htm
USP9 SD
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/fd908178b779c57dd1fbc1ed1cce070f.jpg
USP 45 Tan Tactical
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/a9406ba1ead249e71626252c23a941ac.jpg
The center Tan USP does not have Tall sights
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/2073ef0166a414122d557130dc2368fc.jpg
Well, OK then.. I'd forgotten about the USP, and the seemingly endless variants..Anyway, as far as a VP9t goes, I wouldn't be surprised if HK just slapped a threaded bbl, and a stiffer recoil spring in it and called it good, and charged another $250.. I don't see them going too far out of their way with this, as there probably isn't that much of a demand. Considering their finances the last couple of years, They really need to focus on things they can sell a lot of, compacts, SK's maybe a VP45 if it isn't too huge. If they were smart, they could sell the threaded bbl's and recoil spring assembly's separately.
Slvr Surfr
11-29-15, 16:32
So, if one were inclined to suppress a VP9, is the heavier recoil spring necessary ? If so, what # spring is recommended ? I have a Osprey .45 can that I would be using.
TheChunkNorris
11-30-15, 01:27
So, if one were inclined to suppress a VP9, is the heavier recoil spring necessary ? If so, what # spring is recommended ? I have a Osprey .45 can that I would be using.
There isn't a heavier recoil assembly but people shoot them suppressed all the time. RCM makes threaded barrels in your choice of 1/2X28 or 13.5x1mm thread patterns and from what I've heard... no one has had any issues.
Well, OK then.. I'd forgotten about the USP, and the seemingly endless variants..Anyway, as far as a VP9t goes, I wouldn't be surprised if HK just slapped a threaded bbl, and a stiffer recoil spring in it and called it good, and charged another $250.. I don't see them going too far out of their way with this, as there probably isn't that much of a demand. Considering their finances the last couple of years, They really need to focus on things they can sell a lot of, compacts, SK's maybe a VP45 if it isn't too huge. If they were smart, they could sell the threaded bbl's and recoil spring assembly's separately.
Yeah you're 100% on all that. H&K never came out with a P30 Tactical so I don't see the same happening with the VP9.
Id be all over a VP9SK if all they did was chop the grip and leave the slide/barrel length the same.
brickboy240
11-30-15, 10:53
Knowing HK, they will probably offer another version of the P-30 before they offer a variation on the VP-9.
LOL
Knowing HK, they will probably offer another version of the P-30 before they offer a variation on the VP-9.
LOL
God only knows.. I think they (HK) have pretty much played out their string with the P-30..I mean, you've got the P-30, P-30 LEM, P-30 sk, P-30sk LEM, And I believe Grant has factory threaded bbls for the P-30 for those you who want to suppress it. While I'd like to see HK make a VP9c, From what I've been reading here and there, it seems as if HK may just go with a sk instead. I'd like to see what they could do with a VP45 as well, but, I'd bet you won't see anything like that for quite awhile. I'll admit I had a P-30 LEM for awhile... I ended up hating it.. It was a horrid little pistol. I dumped it off, and haven't missed it yet.. Between the two, (DA/SA, LEM) I do much, much better with a DA/SA trigger than a LEM.
WickedWillis
11-30-15, 13:08
God only knows.. I think they (HK) have pretty much played out their string with the P-30..I mean, you've got the P-30, P-30 LEM, P-30 sk, P-30sk LEM, And I believe Grant has factory threaded bbls for the P-30 for those you who want to suppress it. While I'd like to see HK make a VP9c, From what I've been reading here and there, it seems as if HK may just go with a sk instead. I'd like to see what they could do with a VP45 as well, but, I'd bet you won't see anything like that for quite awhile. I'll admit I had a P-30 LEM for awhile... I ended up hating it.. It was a horrid little pistol. I dumped it off, and haven't missed it yet.. Between the two, (DA/SA, LEM) I do much, much better with a DA/SA trigger than a LEM.
The VP9SK should be out by SHOT, all things considered. They already have the frames made from the P30SK. If they do a Vp45 I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up doing a new frame mold from the HK45. Good things, and HK has released several new handguns in the last few years. All positive.
TheChunkNorris
11-30-15, 20:22
God only knows.. I think they (HK) have pretty much played out their string with the P-30..I mean, you've got the P-30, P-30 LEM, P-30 sk, P-30sk LEM, And I believe Grant has factory threaded bbls for the P-30 for those you who want to suppress it. While I'd like to see HK make a VP9c, From what I've been reading here and there, it seems as if HK may just go with a sk instead. I'd like to see what they could do with a VP45 as well, but, I'd bet you won't see anything like that for quite awhile. I'll admit I had a P-30 LEM for awhile... I ended up hating it.. It was a horrid little pistol. I dumped it off, and haven't missed it yet.. Between the two, (DA/SA, LEM) I do much, much better with a DA/SA trigger than a LEM.
There aren't factory OEM threaded P30 barrels. They're P30L barrels that been crowned and threaded by a shop in the US. I prefer the LEM to DA/SA but then again my set up is a hybrid match LEM. As you already know, they cater to LEO/Military so I don't see the VP45 coming out very soon.
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There aren't factory OEM threaded P30 barrels. They're P30L barrels that been crowned and threaded by a shop in the US. I prefer the LEM to DA/SA but then again my set up is a hybrid match LEM. As you already know, they cater to LEO/Military so I don't see the VP45 coming out very soon.
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Source?
TheChunkNorris
11-30-15, 21:54
Source?
No Tactical on their German Website:
http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/pistols/p30/p30p30s/overview.html
No Tactical on their US Website:
http://hk-usa.com/hk-models/p30/
Threaded German barrel, read the full description:
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/German-P30-9mm-Tactical-Threaded-Barrel-1-2-X-28-258p2417.htm
As it stands the only weapon lines that have won or have been bid for military/LEO contracts have a "Tactical" variant.
USPT/CT - 9mm, .45 and .40
HK45T/CT
Mark 23
P30, P2000 and VP9s have all been bid on LEO contracts worldwide... a threaded barrel isn't a requirement for those contracts.
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-30-15, 22:33
Hopefully they come out with a P2000/G-19/320compact sized VP9. They need that more than yet another SK gun.
Hopefully they come out with a P2000/G-19/320compact sized VP9. They need that more than yet another SK gun.
Slightly smaller grip and we would have our vp9 g19. I would be in heaven. The only downside to the vp9 imo is it has slightly more perceived recoil than my g19 or g17.
TheChunkNorris
12-01-15, 00:16
Hopefully they come out with a P2000/G-19/320compact sized VP9. They need that more than yet another SK gun.
But they sell... and very well might I add. They're looking for proven sales at the moment and their future/potential big sales are rifles at this point.
Slightly smaller grip and we would have our vp9 g19. I would be in heaven. The only downside to the vp9 imo is it has slightly more perceived recoil than my g19 or g17.
I find it less than my buddy's G19 but more than a G17 for sure.
But they sell... and very well might I add. They're looking for proven sales at the moment and their future/potential big future sales are rifles at this point.
I find it less than my buddies G19 but more than a G17 for sure.
That seems right to me.
USP full size series uses different recoil assembly (changes lock time) to increase reliability when used with suppressor. This is needed due to "fancy" way how floating recoil assembly works in USP full size. USPc/P30/VP9/SFP series do not need special recoil assembly for suppressor use. HK makes OFM threaded barrels for P30 (pat no. 234391), P30L (part no. 229792) and will make one for SFP9 (VP9) as an accessory.
TheChunkNorris
12-01-15, 04:23
USP full size series uses different recoil assembly (changes lock time) to increase reliability when used with suppressor. This is needed due to "fancy" way how floating recoil assembly works in USP full size. USPc/P30/VP9/SFP series do not need special recoil assembly for suppressor use. HK makes OFM threaded barrels for P30 (pat no. 234391), P30L (part no. 229792) and will make one for SFP9 (VP9) as an accessory.
Well I'll be damned. Did a quick google search and found a couple but looks like the ones I found are standard thread? Thanks for the correction on the OEM barrel availability.
The VP9SK should be out by SHOT, all things considered.
Hmmm . . .
Id be all over a VP9SK if all they did was chop the grip and leave the slide/barrel length the same.
This.
Okie John
Hopefully they come out with a P2000/G-19/320compact sized VP9. They need that more than yet another SK gun.
then flood their twitter or facebook or whatever they have and tell them that's what you want.
i'm tired of being the communities messenger boy and getting **** all for my efforts.
Hopefully they come out with a P2000/G-19/320compact sized VP9. They need that more than yet another SK gun.
I wish they would too, But, I don't think they're going to. I'd read somewhere that HK considers the VP9 a "compact" as it's between a G19/G17 in size. I got to look at a P-30sk LEM at Grant's shop the other day, and it reinforced what I had already known, The minute I picked it up I hated it.. I hated the grip, I hated the way it felt. There wasn't one thing about it I liked, not one. I've no doubt that it'd be a snappy little bastard to shoot. I demand that I get at least 3 fingers on the grip. A sk anything isn't going to work for me. That goes for Glocks too. If this is HK's next move for the VP9, screw'em, they lost my business..
WickedWillis
12-17-15, 14:13
I wish they would too, But, I don't think they're going to. I'd read somewhere that HK considers the VP9 a "compact" as it's between a G19/G17 in size. I got to look at a P-30sk LEM at Grant's shop the other day, and it reinforced what I had already known, The minute I picked it up I hated it.. I hated the grip, I hated the way it felt. There wasn't one thing about it I liked, not one. I've no doubt that it'd be a snappy little bastard to shoot. I demand that I get at least 3 fingers on the grip. A sk anything isn't going to work for me. That goes for Glocks too. If this is HK's next move for the VP9, screw'em, they lost my business..
That's really funny actually, because the P30 grip, including the SK variant is widely regarded as one of the most comfortable grips produced.
That's really funny actually, because the P30 grip, including the SK variant is widely regarded as one of the most comfortable grips produced.
Yeah, but I don't really care what's "widely regarded" I go by how it feels in MY hands, and in my hands, the sk (NOT the P-30) sucks balls... It's just that simple.
WickedWillis
12-17-15, 17:27
Yeah, but I don't really care what's "widely regarded" I go by how it feels in MY hands, and in my hands, the sk (NOT the P-30) sucks balls... It's just that simple.
I really didn't notice a difference. I felt it was just as comfortable, with just less mass obviously.
I really didn't notice a difference. I felt it was just as comfortable, with just less mass obviously.
Well, that's Ok, I just didn't like it at all, Having had a P-30LEM, and now have 2-VP9's (along with a few other HK's) I do have something to go by as far as the grip goes, and frankly, I didn't care for it. not one little bit. If HK brings out a VP9sk, I for one will be sorely disappointed. IMO, a P-2000/G19 sized VPc that uses P-2000 mags would've been about perfect.. But in all honesty, I don't think that's going to happen..
WickedWillis
12-17-15, 18:34
Well, that's Ok, I just didn't like it at all, Having had a P-30LEM, and now have 2-VP9's (along with a few other HK's) I do have something to go by as far as the grip goes, and frankly, I didn't care for it. not one little bit. If HK brings out a VP9sk, I for one will be sorely disappointed. IMO, a P-2000/G19 sized VPc that uses P-2000 mags would've been about perfect.. But in all honesty, I don't think that's going to happen..
I still am not sure why HK decided to not release the VP9 with grip patterns identical to the P30 series, I always though that was odd. I also feel (like most do) the VP9 should have been sized more similarly to the P2000 or Glock 19. But I digress. I think you are right though, the VP9c that used the P2000 mags would have been absolutely perfect. The VP9sk is mostly likely next, as is the VP45 I am thinking. SHOT should be very HK friendly this year.
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