View Full Version : Wacko kills people at Church in S.C.
Cincinnatus
06-18-15, 00:04
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/17/white-gunman-sought-in-shooting-at-historic-charleston-african-ame-church/
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150618/PC16/150619404
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CHARLESTON_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-06-18-00-35-43
http://www.live5news.com/story/29347341/police-confirm-bomb-threat-at-scene-of-downtown-charleston-shooting
Update: story is he got a .45 as a birthday present from his father. (Cue cries of closing the "gunshow loophole")
And the media and Libs are already gleefully wallowing in the blood of the slain over this and hasn't even been 24 hours.
Whiskey_Bravo
06-18-15, 00:09
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/17/white-gunman-sought-in-shooting-at-historic-charleston-african-ame-church/
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150618/PC16/150619404
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CHARLESTON_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-06-18-00-35-43
Tragedy and my heart goes out to the families.
This will take about 3 seconds for the msm to fire up the gun ban talk and racism.
Saw this on FB. Hopefully they'll get the bastard soon.
And people wonder why I carry in Church.
Saw this on FB. Hopefully they'll get the bastard soon.
And people wonder why I carry in Church.
We recently had a "always carry" discussion on this forum where someone couldn't relate to the notion of always carrying a gun everywhere. Well if it can happen in church, it can happen anywhere.
Too bad somebody in the church this day wasn't carrying.
black22rifle
06-18-15, 02:21
It's not worth it until you need it and then your own life isn't worth it.
White male shooter in his twenties, shoots up a black church and kills a democratic state senator. Sad that racism and political extremism can lead to this.
Lets not start tossing the "they will blame guns and republicans" line out until the bodys are cold guys.
“The only reason someone could walk into a church and shoot people praying is out of hate,”
sick of this race crap !!!!!!
shooter is sick in the head plain and simple
7.62WildBill
06-18-15, 05:51
Shooter still on the loose and unidentified, but the MSM has already determined his motive and are calling it a hate crime.
Shooter still on the loose and unidentified, but the MSM has already determined his motive and are calling it a hate crime.
Well, to be fair, the Police Chief called it a hate crime right off of the bat. MSM will now just run with it, even if facts later discount the theory.
7.62WildBill
06-18-15, 06:34
Well, to be fair, the Police Chief called it a hate crime right off of the bat. MSM will now just run with it, even if facts later discount the theory.
History tells us that details reported this early in the investigation are often untrue, but it is sounding like the shooter made some statements to witnesses that are indicative of racially motivated violence.
We recently had a "always carry" discussion on this forum where someone couldn't relate to the notion of always carrying a gun everywhere. Well if it can happen in church, it can happen anywhere.
Too bad somebody in the church this day wasn't carrying.
And too bad that if someone carries in that church the next time they are open, they could be charged with a crime (http://handgunlaw.us/states/southcarolina.pdf).
White male shooter in his twenties, shoots up a black church and kills a democratic state senator. Sad that racism and political extremism can lead to this.
Lets not start tossing the "they will blame guns and republicans" line out until the bodys are cold guys.
Except they already are... Obviously it's been to long since the last "mass" shooting happened so as a country we've been overdue. They gotta get that message back on point.
time to put on the tin foil hat. Who thinks this was a False Flag?
As expected the media is doing it's best to play up. vs down, the racial issue. The actual radio headline I heard this morning was "white gunmen kills nine black church members in South Carolina"
Framing it immediately so race is the focus to increase tensions vs any attempt to simply say one adult man killed nine others in a church.
Do we have any motive? Maybe his ex wife went to that church, or maybe he's a straight up member of the KKK. What matters is that nine people are dead, not the color of who did it and who died from it.
I predict Asian with history of mental illness, medication, social problems. Since he didn't off himself yet he's not going to. Will give up when found.
Just sickening. The poor families left to deal with the heartbreak and chaos. To add insult to injury they will now also be preyed upon for pawns in the race baiting and gun ban game. Of course it's a hateful act, and to call it a "hate crime" only implies that if race or religion weren't involved then it wouldn't be hateful. These folks have a very rough road ahead.
Is it just me, or do the photos they have released make the suspect look like he isn't white?
Another shooting at a gun free zone. The 2A wasn't written for kicks folks.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/southcarolina.pdf
Places Off-Limits Even With a Permit/License
Section 23-31-215 (M).
(8) church or other established religious sanctuary (unless authorized);
SomeOtherGuy
06-18-15, 08:34
Is it just me, or do the photos they have released make the suspect look like he isn't white?
My immediate thoughts on seeing those photos. He looks less white than Rachel Dolezal (seriously, not meant as a joke). Maybe he looked more white to the one surviving witness? Or maybe they are just assuming and/or describing it this way for political reasons?
Without the kind of proof that requires at least several days of investigation (the regular police-work style), I don't see how this can be labeled as a "hate crime" except on pure speculation.
Prayers for the families. Hope they nail this turd.
Sad state of affairs that we are living in for sure. Decades of piss poor leadership at every level of society are coming home to roost slowly but surely. The flames of this one will be fanned by all.
Whiskey_Bravo
06-18-15, 09:08
Prayers for the families. Hope they nail this turd.
Sad state of affairs that we are living in for sure. Decades of piss poor leadership at every level of society are coming home to roost slowly but surely. The flames of this one will be fanned by all.
Interesting looking guy. Bowl hair cut?
33781
10-4. I couldn't care less about his name/identity, but for identification purposes only...Shooter identified. (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/06/charleston-shooter-identified-dylann-storm-roof/)
Whiskey_Bravo
06-18-15, 09:19
His name is Dylan Storm Roof?
When posting links, please add some additional content and summary information. M4C is not a redirection service.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-18-15, 09:26
Interesting looking guy. Bowl hair cut?
33781
This stooge is two buddies short of a TV show. You know he has to be on some kind of meds and mental health care. An absolute shame. There is enough evil in the world. Throwing the crazies on top of that just makes it even more depressing.
The new Attorney General, Lynch, is about to make a speech on this incident. I'm expecting a lot of blaming of white people and lack of gun control. Her office has already announced a hate crimes investigation into this case.
People ask me why I carry my gun everywhere I legally can, this is the exact reason. No place is really "safe".
As copy cats will arise due to the success of this shooter, black churches might want to look back in their history to the Deacons For Defense (http://www.gunowners.org/op0438.htm) who showed the usual mantra: the only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
^ wonderful... Should I start feeling guilt now about being white or wait until after she tells me I should?
I'd start now so you can be guilty about this incident before it was cool. Ya know, hipster-style guilt.
Just saw the very brief statement from Loretta Lynch, it wasn't what I expected. She basically listed the .gov agencies that were involved, said this was going to be a hate crime investigation and said the DoJ and FBI were ready to help when needed.
I hope they kill the POS as that is what he truly deserves.
I hope they kill the POS as that is what he truly deserves.
I'll even donate the rope.
I hope they kill the POS as that is what he truly deserves.
Supposedly, he's been caught.
Supposedly, he's been caught.
Supposedly in NC.
Phillygunguy
06-18-15, 10:48
time to put on the tin foil hat. Who thinks this was a False Flag?
TPP vote could be why
time to put on the tin foil hat. Who thinks this was a False Flag?
I'll bite but first I need to get background on the senator. Not so much a false flag as it is a "hit" like when the federal judge was shot alongside Gabby Gifford's.
Phillygunguy
06-18-15, 10:53
Prayers for families and the victims
unfortunately this will be more racial divide in the country and talk for tighter gun control, maybe another EO from Obama. And while some think that I'm being petty, the bottom line is any tragedy involving guns or race usually means everybody, ( white male gun owner) gets punished for this asshole
Cincinnatus
06-18-15, 10:58
This event is tragic, and I feel for the families involved. And while I do not generally believe in False Flags, the timing of this event, given the Obama Administration's push to tie racism and gunownership together, is wildly coincidental to say the least. (I do not think it was orchestrated by government, but you and I both know they have been praying for something like this.) And what is really disgusting about it is the way the Libs are salivating over it and wallowing in the blood of the victims already.
As to the perp getting caught, I cannot think a little slimeball like him, given his appearance and what he has done, is going to do very well in prison; he will be tortured on a daily basis and deserves every minute of it.
"You rape our women and you're taking over our country. And you have to go," says gunman
...gunman sat next to #ReverendPinckney during bible study before opening fire
http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2015/06/18/gunman-kills-9-at-historically-black-church-during-bible-study/
brickboy240
06-18-15, 11:23
Media is now setting up the circus tent.
Rants against white people and guns in 3...2...1...
7.62WildBill
06-18-15, 11:26
Media is now setting up the circus tent.
Rants against white people and guns in 3...2...1...
Obama is already calling for more gun control.
Phillygunguy
06-18-15, 11:34
Interesting for a racist he had a lot of black friends on Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009674437955
Gas up the plane for the race bait sharpton.
My condolenses for the family and friends of the victims.
Obummer says he has had to make statements like this too many times...Hello more gun-control talk.
There is something deeply wrong with people that these murders keep happening, and no it is not guns.
Phillygunguy
06-18-15, 12:25
Obummer says he has had to make statements like this too many times...Hello more gun-control talk.
There is something deeply wrong with people that these murders keep happening, and no it is not guns.
No it's not the guns but tell that to the masses. This will now become a national debate right during the election season. This puts any GOP candidate in a tough position, if they are for gun control they'll loose if they support gun rights, they are racist
Obummer says he has had to make statements like this too many times...Hello more gun-control talk.
There is something deeply wrong with people that these murders keep happening, and no it is not guns.
As soon as he said that, I yelled at the TV "No you haven't, yet you always do you *(^*#_+) @$^**(^$ )(@&%$()%@&(!!!!!!!!!!!" :mad:
This is a tragedy and I pray for the friends and families of the fallen.
Had someone inside the church been armed and reasonably proficient with a firearm perhaps the outcome would have been less tragic.
This is a tragedy and I pray for the friends and families of the fallen.
Had someone inside the church been armed and reasonably proficient with a firearm perhaps the outcome would have been less tragic.
There's already precedent for that via the CO church shootings some years ago, which was ignored by the media, or intentionally miss reported as a security guard protecting the church. It was a shining example of what happens when some POS is attracted to a location where he expects to find a target rich environment and is met by force.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-18-15, 12:55
Obama is already calling for more gun control.
He actually called for more gun control, but then said that now is the time to mourn... jack-ass.
Cue Southern Poverty Law Center in 3,2,1....
Father gave perpetrator a .45 handgun for his birthday. Reports allege the gunman reloaded five (5) times. 1911?
B.O.:
...at some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.
This "type" of mass violence??? Apparently other types of mass violence and death don't count? Thanks for the lecture professor, but you can keep that narrow view of reality. News flash: It counts when innocents are murdered regardless of how, when, where, etc.
Father gave perpetrator a .45 handgun for his birthday. Reports allege the gunman reloaded five (5) times. 1911?
5 opportunities to tackle this guy to the ground yet they chose to beg and plea for their lives.
skijunkie55
06-18-15, 13:27
"I've had to make statements like this too many times. Communities like this have had to endure too many tragedies like this too many times," Mr. Obama told reporters Thursday. "We don't have all the facts, but we do know that once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who had wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun."
"Now is the time for mourning and for healing, but let's be clear: at some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries," the president continued. "It doesn't happen in other places with this kind of frequency and it is in our power to do something about it."
Yep... Here comes skyrocketing ammo prices in 3...2....1....
Yep... Here comes skyrocketing ammo prices in 3...2....1....
Oh god I hope not
Phillygunguy
06-18-15, 14:15
Yep... Here comes skyrocketing ammo prices in 3...2....1....
Lets not go there
KalashniKEV
06-18-15, 14:34
Looks like the shooter was a fan of Rhodesia...
http://allenbwest.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Slide17.jpg
KalashniKEV
06-18-15, 14:37
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article10329241.ece/alternates/w620/roof.jpeg
And also the Confederacy...
http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/06/18/c33193d2-16a8-42d7-b63e-9dc80f787b46/thumbnail/270x150/170684ba3e9abc4323a964c68b00b2c3/dylann-roof-car.jpg
(Confederate Veteran's License Plate)
skijunkie55
06-18-15, 14:41
Well, the only action he (obama gun control talk) will be able to accomplish will be via executive orders. He can't get rid of guns because republicans won't let him. So his options: Ban more bullet types via ATF classification and our friend the Sporting clause to make it even more encompassing and infringing, create a "permit" system for online ammo sales and heavily tax them, limit on ammo purchases, registry of ammo purchases, etc.
What I'm trying to figure out is how this whole "dad buys his criminal son a handgun for a birthday present" thing works. He should be in jail as well...
What a crying shame....
I blame this on the stirring up of racial hatred, by Obama& CO supported by the liberal press. You watch, it's about to get worse...
KalashniKEV
06-18-15, 14:51
What I'm trying to figure out is how this whole "dad buys his criminal son a handgun for a birthday present" thing works. He should be in jail as well...
They're trailer park white supremacists.
No surprise at all there.
What I'm trying to figure out is how this whole "dad buys his criminal son a handgun for a birthday present" thing works. He should be in jail as well...
He may not have a felony conviction, barring him from possession of a firearm.
What a crying shame....
I blame this on the stirring up of racial hatred, by Obama& CO supported by the liberal press. You watch, it's about to get worse...
X2 to that.
Averageman
06-18-15, 15:24
He may not have a felony conviction, barring him from possession of a firearm.
If you're bailed out for a drug charge for LSD, Meth and Coke, your Uncle buying you or allowing you to keep a handgun he bought you may really not be the brightest of idea's.
So when does the Race War start?
Father gave perpetrator a .45 handgun for his birthday. Reports allege the gunman reloaded five (5) times. 1911?
Straw purchase??? Lock his dad up!!!!!!!
PatrioticDisorder
06-18-15, 16:00
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/245468-clinton-americans-must-face-hard-truths-after-charleston
Hitlery apparently thinks gun control is a winner, not really a shocker but she's not running from the issue.
Doc Safari
06-18-15, 16:00
Interesting that most of the comments say it's a race crime.
What if he just hated Christians?
brickboy240
06-18-15, 16:00
Coming soon....bare gun store shelves.
Hell...we many never see plentiful 22LR ammo ever again at this rate.
Doc Safari
06-18-15, 16:05
Coming soon....bare gun store shelves.
Hell...we many never see plentiful 22LR ammo ever again at this rate.
We would never have seen it again anyway. My girlfriend and I gave up camping out at Wal-Mart. We even conducted our own investigation to find out 1) when they get their ammo, 2) how long it takes to put it out on the shelf, and 3) what's the best time to be there to get our share.
Well, we timed it "just perfectly" one night, and there was a line leading out of that department to buy it all up as soon as it arrives. We managed to get our share that day but have never timed it just right ever again.
But you're right. This latest one will empty out the gun shop inventories again.
skijunkie55
06-18-15, 16:12
We would never have seen it again anyway. My girlfriend and I gave up camping out at Wal-Mart. We even conducted our own investigation to find out 1) when they get their ammo, 2) how long it takes to put it out on the shelf, and 3) what's the best time to be there to get our share.
Well, we timed it "just perfectly" one night, and there was a line leading out of that department to buy it all up as soon as it arrives. We managed to get our share that day but have never timed it just right ever again.
But you're right. This latest one will empty out the gun shop inventories again.
On a lighter note, I bought (3 hours ago) 500 rounds of 9mm blaster ammo from Freedom Munitions and I just now received a shipment notification.
polydeuces
06-18-15, 16:28
This was bound to happen - simple law of statistics, and it will happen again, no amount of laws regulation or legislation will stop a determined nutcase. As proof I give you the 2011 shooting in Norway.
We know this.
In general this should be a wake-up call to ALL of those thinking that we're doing just fine.
Ammo is plentiful, sort of, as are parts and other supplies, no worries, right?
WRONG!
We are constantly on the edge of having it all shut down - if we let them. They wipe their ass on the 2nd amendment - it has absolutely no meaning to them what-so-ever!
We are not paranoid. They ARE after our firearms. We have to keep pushing back. Because they will not stop. EVER.
And THAT is the uncomfortable truth!
Coming soon....bare gun store shelves.
Hell...we many never see plentiful 22LR ammo ever again at this rate.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/20150612_115855.jpg
Looks like the shooter was a fan of Rhodesia...
And that's a damn shame. People that actually know of Rhodesia already link it with racism, and this won't help.
On a lighter note, I bought (3 hours ago) 500 rounds of 9mm blaster ammo from Freedom Munitions and I just now received a shipment notification.
You guys are in the wrong side of the country :)
The big gun store near where I work have those ammo stacked by the pallets. And see the .22LR picture I posted.
Doc Safari
06-18-15, 16:40
You guys are in the wrong side of the country :)
The big gun store near where I work have those ammo stacked by the pallets. And see the .22LR picture I posted.
Thanks for rubbing it in. 'Preciate dat. :D
In all fairness, Gander Mountain had quite a bit, but they are too far of a drive for us and they had a 500 round limit.
I'd be willing to bet even they don't have it in a few days.
SomeOtherGuy
06-18-15, 16:51
I haven't seen that much .22 rimfire in one place in at least 8 years. Even when it was relatively available here (through 2012 or so) I never saw that much in one store.
Outlander Systems
06-18-15, 16:53
Those assholes!
I bought my first handgun from them. It was a USP .45 Tactical, on my 21st Birthday.
Cabelas is stripped to the bone...
Straw purchase??? Lock his dad up!!!!!!!
Not a straw purchase unless he gave his father the money to go purchase the firearm no longer making it a "gifted" item.
However, if he did I totally agree lock his ass up.
I haven't seen that much .22 rimfire in one place in at least 8 years. Even when it was relatively available here (through 2012 or so) I never saw that much in one store.
That's just on the shelves. They have another pallet full of .22LR on the floor ! I didn't buy any though, I think 10,000 at home is enough :)
A couple months ago a new Dick's open and they had 1400 Remington .22 in these plastic buckets for $70. I had a $10 coupon and bought a bucket (limit 1) in the evening and went back in the morning and got another bucket also with $10 off coupon. I've heard that people were reselling them at gun shows for $145 ! I would never do that. LOL Really.
It would be interesting to see if the stores supplies are down tomorrow.
7.62WildBill
06-18-15, 17:12
That's just on the shelves. They have another pallet full of .22LR on the floor ! I didn't buy any though, I think 10,000 at home is enough :)
A couple months ago a new Dick's open and they had 1400 Remington .22 in these plastic buckets for $70. I had a $10 coupon and bought a bucket (limit 1) in the evening and went back in the morning and got another bucket also with $10 off coupon. I've heard that people were reselling them at gun shows for $145 ! I would never do that. LOL Really.
It would be interesting to see if the stores supplies are down tomorrow.
The local Walmart still has a three box limit. Went by today on a tip that they had some 7.62x39, which they haven't had in over a month. The ammo case was as full as I've ever seen. I'll be back tomorrow for three more boxes, which I would have been doing regardless of some evil scumbag's crimes.
Stop with the ammo banter... It's making me sad.
Straw purchase??? Lock his dad up!!!!!!!
It's not a straw purchase unless he was a prohibited person. He has a felony drug arrest, but that doesn't mean it didn't get knocked down to something else.
Not a straw purchase unless he gave his father the money to go purchase the firearm no longer making it a "gifted" item.
However, if he did I totally agree lock his ass up.
It doesn't matter who gave money or who paid for it. It's only a straw purchase if it was purchased with the intent to provide to a prohibited person. Doesn't matter at all where the money came from.
It doesn't matter who gave money or who paid for it. It's only a straw purchase if it was purchased with the intent to provide to a prohibited person. Doesn't matter at all where the money came from.
I believe an officer here recently was prosecuted for doing just what you said for an individual who was not a prohibited person but I may be wrong.
Doc Safari
06-18-15, 17:44
THE FIRST QUESTION ON THE 4473 ASKS IF YOU ARE THE ACTUAL BUYER OF THE FIREARM AND IF YOU ANSWER NO THE DEALER CANNOT SELL YOU THE FIREARM.
'Nuff said.
THE FIRST QUESTION ON THE 4473 ASKS IF YOU ARE THE ACTUAL BUYER OF THE FIREARM AND IF YOU ANSWER NO THE DEALER CANNOT SELL YOU THE FIREARM.
'Nuff said.
However if you are gifting the item you can still check yes and the form defines what gifting is.
Averageman
06-18-15, 17:56
However if you are gifting the item you can still check yes and the form defines what gifting is.
That is my understanding. I recently purchased a handgun as a gift for my Mother. I as much as told the clerk that as i filled out the paperwork. I did so not to clarify the rules, but as it was an older Lady and we were making small talk.
I believe an officer here recently was prosecuted for doing just what you said for an individual who was not a prohibited person but I may be wrong.
Then he had a shitty lawyer who didn't know the law. Are you sure he didn't get nailed for being an unlicensed dealer?
KalashniKEV
06-18-15, 18:39
Interesting that most of the comments say it's a race crime.
What if he just hated Christians?
If he had sewn an ISIS flag on his jacket and had an al Qaeda flag on his car, and he shot up a synagogue... would it be too far a leap to assume he was an Islamic terrorist?
Turn your brain back on.
Dear leader wasted no time, inappropriately, politicizing the issue in his very first remarks on the subject.
Deeply sorry for those who lost loved one's to this maniac.
Outlander Systems
06-18-15, 19:14
Dear leader wasted no time, inappropriately, politicizing the issue in his very first remarks on the subject.
Deeply sorry for those who lost loved one's to this maniac.
"Never let a crisis go to waste."
That callous, disgusting man should be ashamed of himself. My God, the bodies didn't even fall to room temp before the weasel had to make it into a political issue.
Why can't evil, ever just simply be evil?
This is a product of a broken home, and poor parenting, not a political "hot-button" issue.
Unfortunately, actually solving problems isn't politically expedient to the opportunists we have running this mad house.
This whole thing is a shame all around.
Averageman
06-18-15, 19:43
"Never let a crisis go to waste."
That callous, disgusting man should be ashamed of himself. My God, the bodies didn't even fall to room temp before the weasel had to make it into a political issue.
Why can't evil, ever just simply be evil?
This is a product of a broken home, and poor parenting, not a political "hot-button" issue.
Unfortunately, actually solving problems isn't politically expedient to the opportunists we have running this mad house.
This whole thing is a shame all around.
I agree wholeheartedly with your observation, but what always seems to be missing is;
These guys isolate themselves.
They are usually on mind altering chemicals.
They have family members that have observed the odd behavior and mention it as a side note right after these killings.
They have access or have been given access to guns, even though for the most part they came out about them by means other than self purchasing.
The ugly truth is the guns didn't walk down to that church and shoot anybody. This kids family was remiss for not taking action after clear signs they should have, or at least removed his access to firearms.
The guy was busted for LSD, Coke and Meth, now who in their right mind wouldn't have secured the gun(s) before bailing this guy out of jail and why wasn't he taken straight to a psych eval and a drug treatment program?
Blame the gun, after all it is so much more expedient than personal responsibility.
He was a racist. Reports say that he stated that he was there to kill Black people. His intent was clear. No spin on that. Really sad.
Outlander Systems
06-18-15, 20:02
I agree wholeheartedly with your observation, but what always seems to be missing is;
These guys isolate themselves.
They are usually on mind altering chemicals.
They have family members that have observed the odd behavior and mention it as a side note right after these killings.
They have access or have been given access to guns, even though for the most part they came out about them by means other than self purchasing.
The ugly truth is the guns didn't walk down to that church and shoot anybody. This kids family was remiss for not taking action after clear signs they should have, or at least removed his access to firearms.
The guy was busted for LSD, Coke and Meth, now who in their right mind wouldn't have secured the gun(s) before bailing this guy out of jail and why wasn't he taken straight to a psych eval and a drug treatment program?
Blame the gun, after all it is so much more expedient than personal responsibility.
I'm fairly confident that the majority of these types of incidents involve someone OTHER THAN THE SHOOTER providing the weapon.
People, for all that is holy, if you have a drug addict, a person who is mentally unstable, or someone with a history of criminal activity in your home, prevent their access to your firearms by any means necessary. Get the guns into safekeeping with a friend or relative, or, better yet, get the dirtbag out of your house.
If my daughter was busted for possession, her ass would be on the street faster than she could take a selfie. I love her more than life itself, but...play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I love my kid, but enabling does far, FAR more harm than good.
sevenhelmet
06-18-15, 20:19
Not sure I'd actually kick my kid out of the house if they were busted for possession, especially if I thought it would send them into the hands of their deadbeat druggie friends. I agree with your point 100% though, and there is no way on God's green Earth I would let them anywhere near my guns, let alone willingly give them one of their own.
I think the relative who gave this psycho the gun should also be arrested, or at the very least held liable in civil court.
Media are reporting the gunman bought the gun himself using money he received on his b/day, meaning he passed a NICS check if he used an FFL. Notwithstanding that only 24 hrs have passed, and not all the details have been released, liberals are foaming at the mouth to stand on the bodies of the victims to push for new gun control legislation.
The father gave his severely troubled son a .45 for his birthday and severely troubled son goes and shoots a bunch of folks? The father is either complicit or extremely stupid - possibly mentally incompetent himself. There is no excuse for such lack of sense. He should be made to face charges as an accessory to 9 counts of 1st degree murder.
Just an assumption since I haven't seen anything suggesting the contrary but I highly doubt the rest of the shooters family are highly esteemed members of society themselves. His hatred was learned from somewhere.
ForTehNguyen
06-18-15, 20:50
more prescription drugs, cant talk about that. Another gun free zone, SC prohibits carrying in church
Others have mentioned the infamous "never let a crisis go to waste" philosophy from Obama henchman Rahm Emanuel, which is exactly what Obama and Clinton and others on the left are doing.
I get so sick of hearing talking heads say "I think Obama and Clinton are sincere in their belief that more gun control will help". No, they are not.
We know about the "Fast and Furious" program, and no doubt there are other propaganda type operations to undermine the Second Amendment that didn't come to light.
Obama and Clinton,and those like them, simply want more control over the American people, period. They want us to be more dependent on the government, more afraid of criminals, less able to band together and resist a more and more totalitarian regime. Proof of this is their deafening silence on blacks killing blacks in Emanuel's Chicago. The left only says something when it can further their agenda, through fear or division, which shows their supposed concern is completely disingenuous and deceitful at best, at worst treasonous.
Law enforcement officials said the weapon, a .45-caliber Glock handgun that was reloaded several times during the attack, was found on Roof when he was arrested. The gun was legally purchased in April, officials said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/accused-killer-in-sc-slayings-described-as-a-quiet-loner/2015/06/18/a4127390-15d0-11e5-89f3-61410da94eb1_story.html?hpid=z2
So much for background checks preventing mass-shootings.
So much for background checks preventing mass-shootings.
Wasn't the gun a gift from his dad?
PatrioticDisorder
06-18-15, 22:37
Media are reporting the gunman bought the gun himself using money he received on his b/day, meaning he passed a NICS check if he used an FFL. Notwithstanding that only 24 hrs have passed, and not all the details have been released, liberals are foaming at the mouth to stand on the bodies of the victims to push for new gun control legislation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/accused-killer-in-sc-slayings-described-as-a-quiet-loner/2015/06/18/a4127390-15d0-11e5-89f3-61410da94eb1_story.html?hpid=z2
So much for background checks preventing mass-shootings.
Story said it was legally purchased, who knows what that even means. It didn't specifically say shooter purchased the firearm and coming from the Washington Compost, I'd take it with a grain of salt.
Story said it was legally purchased, who knows what that even means. It didn't specifically say shooter purchased the firearm and coming from the Washington Compost, I'd take it with a grain of salt.
From that article:
Roof, who lived in Eastover, S.C., not far from Columbia, also had an apparent affinity for guns. Law enforcement officials said his father recently had either bought him a gun as a present or given him money that he used to buy one.
Still vague on who actually would have filled out the form.
Prayers for everyone involved...
Who's to say it wasn't purchased via private transaction?
Moose-Knuckle
06-19-15, 00:26
Interesting looking guy. Bowl hair cut?
33781
He must have the same barber as Adam Lanza. The same "1000 yard stare" look in his eyes from his FB profile pic.
Let's not confuse this more with the straw purchase and other related nonsense. At the end of the day, how he got the gun is irrelevant. Barry and Hilary are using it already to further their agenda.
Barry and Hilary are using it already to further their agenda.
Obama is already at it. As if this guy would have been completely harmless without a gun. Guess they have conveniently forgotten there were no guns at the 16th Street Baptist Church.
The father gave his severely troubled son a .45 for his birthday and severely troubled son goes and shoots a bunch of folks? The father is either complicit or extremely stupid - possibly mentally incompetent himself. There is no excuse for such lack of sense. He should be made to face charges as an accessory to 9 counts of 1st degree murder.
Yes, he should be made to face charges IF he actually knew any of that stuff. You'd be amazed what some parents don't know. If one or both of the parents is complicit in these crimes, there is plenty of time to gather evidence, build a case, etc.
Moose-Knuckle
06-19-15, 03:41
Yup Barry and Billary are already on the war path with their disarmament agenda. It's almost like this thing was orchestrated; unarmed black victims in a house of worship no less, white male, semi-automatic handgun with C L I P S, Confederate battle flag license plate, Rhodesian and apartheid-era South African flag patches, so on and so forth.
As I was telling members in another thread, before this shooting we were seeing historic lows on things like USGI mags and 6920 and 6720 Colts. You snooze you loose and all that cause this will kick-off the great panic of the 2016 election year.
Business_Casual
06-19-15, 05:25
He must have the same barber as Adam Lanza. The same "1000 yard stare" look in his eyes from his FB profile pic.
Hey, what a coinky-dink, he was on SSRI drugs too, and only recently changedhis FB picture just after the first trade vote failed. Now the news is 24x7 on this. What a strange world, huh? One might think a monarch was in charge.
Cui Bono, that this should happen, indeed.
Reports this morning with interview with a buddy who recently "reconnected" with the shooter. Just as others stated in earlier threads - yep, guy says the shooter "wanted to do something big and hurt a lot of people". Friend says it matter of fact without any remorse that he did nothing...
The news reported that his friends were saying that he had been planning this for the last six months. WTF?? Nobody felt the need to tell authorities?
7.62WildBill
06-19-15, 05:43
CNN reported that his room mate took his gun away over fears he was going to hurt someone, but gave it back when confronted since the roommate had some criminal history and could not legally posses a firearm. Why not call the cops?
Happened to have CBS on this early AM and they highlighted Jon Stewart's monologue.
Liberal emotions in full runaway. Lack of critical thinking ensues. Scary thing is how much of our country, especially the younger members, get their information and mindset from this guy.
Apparently, it is not the act of a single POS - it's the fault of a systematically racist white (implied) America. And oh yeah, those racist Southerners still flaunting the glory of Confederate slavery...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaW47WxcwPQ
Business_Casual
06-19-15, 06:04
Reports this morning with interview with a buddy who recently "reconnected" with the shooter. Just as others stated in earlier threads - yep, guy says the shooter "wanted to do something big and hurt a lot of people". Friend says it matter of fact without any remorse that he did nothing...
It's almost as if was reading a script or something!
Phillygunguy
06-19-15, 06:32
Happened to have CBS on this early AM and they highlighted Jon Stewart's monologue.
Liberal emotions in full runaway. Lack of critical thinking ensues. Scary thing is how much of our country, especially the younger members, get their information and mindset from this guy.
Apparently, it is not the act of a single POS - it's the fault of a systematically racist white (implied) America. And oh yeah, those racist Southerners still flaunting the glory of Confederate slavery...
Why is this idiot still on the air?
He bought the .45-caliber handgun used in the shooting himself at a Charleston gun store, the source said.
One of the officials said Roof told investigators he wanted to start a “race war.”
http://fox59.com/2015/06/19/questions-swirl-about-dylann-roof-suspect-in-charleston-church-shooting/
Why is this idiot still on the air?
Sadly, I think it is because a good amount, or (I fear) the majority, think like him.
The Washington Post is pushing hard for gun reforms.
Because of his criminal record, Roof would not have been able to buy a gun from a store. Federally licensed gun dealers are required to run background checks on gun purchasers, and Roof’s pending charges should have turned up as a red flag.
But Roof didn’t need to go to a dealership. According to his uncle, Roof received a .45-caliber pistol from his father in April for his birthday, Reuters reports.
The legal loophole that allowed Dylann Roof to get a gun
The Washington Post is pushing hard for gun reforms.
The legal loophole that allowed Dylann Roof to get a gun
But it's not a loop hole, unless they want to add bad parenting as a loop hole. The event shows the system worked just fine, but stupid is a "loop hole" some humans use to do stupid things. What laws prevent stupid?
PatrioticDisorder
06-19-15, 07:44
The Washington Post is pushing hard for gun reforms.
The legal loophole that allowed Dylann Roof to get a gun
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/06/18/the-legal-loophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/
Your link doesn't work. What the article failed to mention is that if his father knew about his pending charges and I'd imagine he did since he's presumably out on bail with few friends and a high school drop out (someone had to bail him out), then it would be a straw purchase by the father which is already against federal law.
Interesting he was caught with suboxone, it's often bought on the street for an opioid dependent person to detox themselves from opioids as its a partial agonist. With his arrest for cocaine, meth and LSD it would be almost impossible for his father to not know he was a habitual drug abuser, again making him a prohibited person. This will be used to push for "universal background checks" but we have the facts on our side. His father giving him a firearm was almost certainly a straw purchase.
PatrioticDisorder
06-19-15, 07:47
Hey, what a coinky-dink, he was on SSRI drugs too, and only recently changedhis FB picture just after the first trade vote failed. Now the news is 24x7 on this. What a strange world, huh? One might think a monarch was in charge.
Cui Bono, that this should happen, indeed.
Post hoc fallacy my man.
Not gonna happen. Not in SC. This evil man won't succeed in his ambitions, and I watch in disgust and repulsion while Obama and Sharpton pick up where he left off.
So when does the Race War start?
SomeOtherGuy
06-19-15, 08:20
Yup Barry and Billary are already on the war path with their disarmament agenda. It's almost like this thing was orchestrated; unarmed black victims in a house of worship no less, white male, semi-automatic handgun with C L I P S, Confederate battle flag license plate, Rhodesian and apartheid-era South African flag patches, so on and so forth.
What are you implying? You sound like one of those crazed conspiracy theorists. People like you are responsible for this! /end massive sarcasm
Hey, what a coinky-dink, he was on SSRI drugs too, and only recently changedhis FB picture just after the first trade vote failed. Now the news is 24x7 on this. What a strange world, huh? One might think a monarch was in charge.
Cui Bono, that this should happen, indeed.
Ssssshhhh, go back to sleep, little sheep.
Obviously it's time for a foreign war against "ragheads" or "commies," because the disguise is wearing off!
Averageman
06-19-15, 08:44
Mix up a large amount of MSM induced race paranoia, some prescription drugs along with some street drugs and in 2 big old cups of bad parenting, two tablespoons of "I knew he wanted to do something terrible" and illegal access to firearms because of the dope and what do you get?
The fact is we are seeing more of this, and the truth is no one ever wants to blame parents, prescription drugs, or people who the perpetrator told he was going to do something terrible, that of course would point the finger at people who could have stopped this tragedy. Instead let's blame an inanimate object such as a gun. A gun that was again as so many times in the past, was used in a gun free zone.
You can blame the gun all you like, but this recipe would still have had similar results regardless. Insane people do insane things, I'm not sure how you can remove insane people from every potential variable to commit harm to others without family members and those close to them not standing up and stopping it before things go completely out of control
Mix up a large amount of MSM induced race paranoia, some prescription drugs along with some street drugs and in 2 big old cups of bad parenting, two tablespoons of "I knew he wanted to do something terrible" and illegal access to firearms because of the dope and what do you get?
The fact is we are seeing more of this, and the truth is no one ever wants to blame parents, prescription drugs, or people who the perpetrator told he was going to do something terrible, that of course would point the finger at people who could have stopped this tragedy. Instead let's blame an inanimate object such as a gun. A gun that was again as so many times in the past, was used in a gun free zone.
You can blame the gun all you like, but this recipe would still have had similar results regardless. Insane people do insane things, I'm not sure how you can remove insane people from every potential variable to commit harm to others without family members and those close to them not standing up and stopping it before things go completely out of control
Well said.
What a stark contrast between your rational comments vs. Jon Stewart's emotional and irrational rant I posted above.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/06/18/the-legal-loophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/
Your link doesn't work. What the article failed to mention is that if his father knew about his pending charges and I'd imagine he did since he's presumably out on bail with few friends and a high school drop out (someone had to bail him out), then it would be a straw purchase by the father which is already against federal law.
Interesting he was caught with suboxone, it's often bought on the street for an opioid dependent person to detox themselves from opioids as its a partial agonist. With his arrest for cocaine, meth and LSD it would be almost impossible for his father to not know he was a habitual drug abuser, again making him a prohibited person. This will be used to push for "universal background checks" but we have the facts on our side. His father giving him a firearm was almost certainly a straw purchase.
Allegedly the gunman bought the Glock himself from an FFL, which implies he passed a NICS check.
But it's not a loop hole, unless they want to add bad parenting as a loop hole. The event shows the system worked just fine, but stupid is a "loop hole" some humans use to do stupid things. What laws prevent stupid?
Allegedly the gunman himself bought gun from an FFL...
Allegedly the gunman himself bought gun from an FFL...
Allegedly, his dad bought the gun for him.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0OY1W120150618?irpc=932
KalashniKEV
06-19-15, 09:16
If my daughter was busted for possession, her ass would be on the street faster than she could take a selfie. I love her more than life itself, but...play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
...and that's why she'll be calling the dopeman, "Daddy" before you can box up her things.
Truth.
Dopeman, Dopeman...
He must have the same barber as Adam Lanza. The same "1000 yard stare" look in his eyes from his FB profile pic.
We need George Zimmerman to start stalking down these ass burgers and getting into gunfights with them.
...or somebody.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-19-15, 09:19
Allegedly the gunman himself bought gun from an FFL...
He reloaded a Glock 5 times- that made some sense with a 1911, but not so much with a Glock. Or I'm wondering if he had 5 malfunctions and he was working the slide? He looks like he'd limp wrist a 45.
PatrioticDisorder
06-19-15, 09:30
Allegedly the gunman himself bought gun from an FFL...
Multiple sources are reporting it was a gift from his father bought in April after he was charged with felony drug possession in Feb.... I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but based on the info currently available it appears it was bought for him by his dad and likely a straw purchase.
KalashniKEV
06-19-15, 09:36
He reloaded a Glock 5 times- that made some sense with a 1911, but not so much with a Glock.
Why?
...it appears it was bought for him by his dad and likely a straw purchase.
Why?
Too much speculation.
Remember "Hands up don't shoot?"
Multiple sources are reporting it was a gift from his father bought in April after he was charged with felony drug possession in Feb.... I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but based on the info currently available it appears it was bought for him by his dad and likely a straw purchase.
The story is changing:
the weapon -- came in April, when Roof bought a .45-caliber handgun at a Charleston gun store, according to the two law enforcement officials.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/
He himself bought the .45-caliber handgun used in the shooting last April at a Charleston gun store, according to the two officials. Earlier, a senior law enforcement official had indicated that Roof’s father bought him a Glock firearm for his birthday.
http://fox4kc.com/2015/06/19/dylann-roof-confessed-to-killings-said-he-wanted-to-start-a-race-war/
PatrioticDisorder
06-19-15, 09:41
The story is changing:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/
http://fox4kc.com/2015/06/19/dylann-roof-confessed-to-killings-said-he-wanted-to-start-a-race-war/
Ok it will be interesting to see which news agency got it wrong here and who got it right as to what the source of the gun was. If the shooter was able to purchase the weapon in April, there is a serious flaw with the NICS. Especially considering the shooter's unique name, Dylann STORM ROOF...
PatrioticDisorder
06-19-15, 09:44
... And if it was a private transaction, we as pro 2a supporters have an uphill fight against "universal background checks" (the left's Holy grail of gun control, setting the stage for much more gun control down the road).
Crow Hunter
06-19-15, 09:55
... And if it was a private transaction, we as pro 2a supporters have an uphill fight against "universal background checks" (the left's Holy grail of gun control, setting the stage for much more gun control down the road).
Based on what I understand of most of the "Universal Background check" proposals, most of them seem to exempt transfers between family.
If so, that wouldn't have prevented this tragedy.
KalashniKEV
06-19-15, 09:55
Interesting stuff here:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof.html
Roof told the church: “I have to do it. You’re raping our women and taking over the country. You have to go.”
It sounds like he was just a pathetic, helpless character- no job, no car, no girl, no hope.
Literally all he had was his skin.
One article said he was living with his Father and stepmom until they split up, then his sister, who was about to get married on Sunday.
I guess he figured he didn't have any place to go.
... And if it was a private transaction, we as pro 2a supporters have an uphill fight against "universal background checks" (the left's Holy grail of gun control, setting the stage for much more gun control down the road).
If it was a private transaction, they should open the NICS to private citizens. Make it free. Make it multipurpose.
Employers could use it... I never understood why background checking was left up to private companies for employment purposes...
PatrioticDisorder
06-19-15, 09:58
Based on what I understand of most of the "Universal Background check" proposals, most of them seem to exempt transfers between family.
If so, that wouldn't have prevented this tragedy.
But with the left its facts be damned, they will hammer home the point to soccer moms there was no background check and will tell them they are closing the "loophole." Most people listen to sound bites and the left would appear to be on the side of reason to most low information people.
So when does the Race War start?
Not gonna happen. Not in SC. This evil man won't succeed in his ambitions, and I watch in disgust and repulsion while Obama and Sharpton pick up where he left off.
Well I guess she thinks it's time for a race war.
JS, you are correct in stating Obama and Al will be fanning these flames.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/19/woman-calls-for-race-war-at-scene-of-church-shooting/
The conversation is a snapshot of race relations in the Obama era, which has seen racial tension reach a boiling point unseen in America for decades.
Breitbart Texas editor Brandon Darby drew a heated reaction by asking, “What do you think the chances are that the guy who did this horrible thing was mentally ill?”
Sista Solove, offscreen, immediately responds, “Hell, no… Are all crackers mentally ill?”
The conversation took place five feet from what President Obama called “sacred space” in a speech on Wednedsay.
A few seconds later, after the man with the sign says he did not believe Charleston suspect Dylann Roof was mentally ill, Sista Solove expresses a theory that several African Americans in Charleston told us: that Roof “was sent” by white supremacists to do the shooting and to push black people out of town.
“He (alleged killer Roof) was sent. He was sent. The KKK ain’t nothing but the police with badges now. That’s all they are. They took their hoods off and they’re police. It was an inside job.”
Darby then asks, “What do y’all think’s going to come from this?” and the woman responds, “Race war. Race war. Us against them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o-rzGRSu8s
^ It appears the same "Sista Solove's" FB ( https://www.facebook.com/mssolove ) banner features "The Justice or Else!" march to celebrate the Million Man March anniversary.
Guess who the guest speaker is? "The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan". We all know how he feels about whites, Jews, etc.
For goodness sakes...
From the Atlantic: TA-NEHISI COATES: SOUTH CAROLINA’S CONFEDERATE FLAG ‘ENDORSES’ DYLANN STORM ROOF
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/06/18/ta-nehisi-coates-south-carolinas-confederate-flag-endorses-dylann-storm-roof/
Last night, Dylann Roof walked into a Charleston church, sat for an hour, and then killed nine people. Roof’s crime cannot be divorced from the ideology of white supremacy which long animated his state nor from its potent symbol—the Confederate flag. Visitors to Charleston have long been treated to South Carolina’s attempt to clean its history and depict its secession as something other than a war to guarantee the enslavement of the majority of its residents. This notion is belied by any serious interrogation of the Civil War and the primary documents of its instigators. Yet the Confederate battle flag—the flag of Dylann Roof—still flies on the Capitol grounds in Columbia.
The Confederate flag’s defenders often claim it represents “heritage not hate.” I agree—the heritage of White Supremacy was not so much birthed by hate as by the impulse toward plunder. Dylann Roof plundered nine different bodies last night, plundered nine different families of an original member, plundered nine different communities of a singular member. An entire people are poorer for his action. The flag that Roof embraced, which many South Carolinians embrace, does not stand in opposition to this act—it endorses it. That the Confederate flag is the symbol of of white supremacists is evidenced by the very words of those who birthed it:
KalashniKEV
06-19-15, 14:18
For goodness sakes...
From the Atlantic: TA-NEHISI COATES: SOUTH CAROLINA’S CONFEDERATE FLAG ‘ENDORSES’ DYLANN STORM ROOF
Perhaps a topic for a separate thread, but when you lose a war, you lose your flag... and that's the way it's always been.
Even the Iraqis know that...
Averageman
06-19-15, 14:24
From the same article.
Last night, Dylann Roof walked into a Charleston church, sat for an hour, and then killed nine people. Roof’s crime cannot be divorced from the ideology of white supremacy which long animated his state nor from its potent symbol—the Confederate flag.
And
The flag that Roof embraced, which many South Carolinians embrace, does not stand in opposition to this act—it endorses it. That the Confederate flag is the symbol of of white supremacists is evidenced by the very words of those who birthed it:
I cant help but wonder where history is taught anymore?
No one can debate that slavery was going on in the American Colonies and continued for decades longer in the Southern States. When you look at the facts however, you might find out that of those people that were sold in to bondage by their own brothers and sisters back in Africa the 360,000 that ended up here were in much the same conditions of many less fortunate Europeans. Those conditions were far more favorable than those who ended up in South America or the Islands.
As time rolled on, for the most part, the Democratic Party which most African Americans now support today,were the major players in "Jim Crow" and "Poll Tax" laws that kept those folks under another form of slavery. When looked upon with an objective eye, even still today they, the democratic Party, promote policies that limit the advancement of African Americans beyond the communities they now live in.
If, and I do not consider this to be a fact; the Civil War was about slavery, then how many Union Soldiers laid their lives down on battlefields to "Free the Slaves"? Is this not fact and is this not history and at what point is atonement for those 360,000 held in slavery achieved?
Race and racial hatred in this country is not new and it isn't all white on black. As a matter of fact, as I'm sure many of you know violent crime statistics show that the majority of violent crime is Black on White. Those are facts and they are compiled by the FBI through the Justice Department.
History, facts and numbers however are meaningless when you confront this issue, it is driven by emotion and pure greed.
Inviting Faarakhan to such an event only proves this point.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-19-15, 14:41
What a whole lot of evidence to not have confidence in the human race.
Averageman
06-19-15, 15:00
What a whole lot of evidence to not have confidence in the human race.
I have no doubt in the unlimited hatred and greed in the Human Race and so far they have never let me down in that department.
Inviting Faarakhan to the party is like inviting a hand grenade with the pin out in to your cargo pocket, nothing good will come of it.
And perhaps let us for a moment reconsider Chicago. The land where owning a handgun or a concealed carry permit is pretty much a dream. Of course they publicly flog gun store owners even though the guns used in crimes there are for the most part stolen.
http://heyjackass.com/
Kind of makes the 9 killed in South Carolina look like a statistic rather than a name doesn't it? Democratic State controlled by Chicago and with restrictive gun laws for only those willing to obey them.
SomeOtherGuy
06-19-15, 15:28
And perhaps let us for a moment reconsider Chicago. The land where owning a handgun or a concealed carry permit is pretty much a dream. Of course they publicly flog gun store owners even though the guns used in crimes there are for the most part stolen.
http://heyjackass.com/
Kind of makes the 9 killed in South Carolina look like a statistic rather than a name doesn't it? Democratic State controlled by Chicago and with restrictive gun laws for only those willing to obey them.
And that's really what this is all about, isn't it? No politician or public figure says anything or tries to do anything about the black on black slaughter, but you have one white person kill the same number of black people that get killed in a Chicago weekend, and it's made to dominate the national media for a week.
I'm not trying to downplay the tragedy in Charleston, but in real numbers it's equal to a slow weekend in Chicago, or an average to hot weekend in some other cities.
Averageman
06-19-15, 15:40
And that's really what this is all about, isn't it? No politician or public figure says anything or tries to do anything about the black on black slaughter, but you have one white person kill the same number of black people that get killed in a Chicago weekend, and it's made to dominate the national media for a week.
I'm not trying to downplay the tragedy in Charleston, but in real numbers it's equal to a slow weekend in Chicago, or an average to hot weekend in some other cities.
I do get your point, but for the most part it is lost on the rest of America.
In order to see that point, you would have to admit that Gun Control doesn't work. Rahm Emmanual isn't going to let that happen, even though his Son was robbed at gunpoint outside the Mayors Mansion.
Look, if these guys want to kill each other there is little that "Gun Control" can do to stop it. That is the fact and if you look at the numbers it is undeniable.
If it would be as in Chicago the only people willing to give up their guns are law obeying citizens. The lesson here to voters might be don't vote for those in power when they are allowing our kids to kill each other and arm yourselves.
The logic being only a good man with a gun can stop a bad man with a gun. I think this case, a killing of 9 in a "Gun Free Zone" only proves it.
As a matter of fact, as I'm sure many of you know violent crime statistics show that the majority of violent crime is Black on White.
I agree with much of your post but, I have to be totally honest, most of the folks I see rocking the Confederate Flag are kind of in at least the fringes of the racist believers. I said most, not all.
I also don't agree with your statement about crime, either one of us can make statistics say what we want, but the raw numbers don't seem to support your statement. In 2013 there were over 3,700.000 arrests made in the United States. Over 2,700,000 of those arrested were White; 930,000+ were Black. It would seem that the majority of crimes for which folks were arrested were committed by us White folks.
In terms of the violent crimes, more whites were arrested in just about the same ratio. The exception was robbery, more Blacks were arrested for robbery than whites.
According to the 2010 Census, 74% of Americans are White; 12% are Black. So looking at those numbers, it is indeed true that a greater percentage of the Black population committed violent crimes than did those in the White population.
But the statement that 'most' violent crime is committed by Blacks is not accurate.
It does appear that as a percentage, Blacks are arrested at about twice the rate of White folks.
But that is a simplistic view of crime. We will always have crime, especially violent crime. Race is not the most critical component to look at in terms of crime, rather the most important components are poverty and the resultant lack of cohesive family values and lack of education. 10% of the White population lives at or below the poverty level, 27% of the Black population lives at or below the poverty level. If you look at the offenders, the vast majority, not all, but the vast majority come from these income levels. Call it what you want, a character defect, or whatever, but if you are poor you are more likely to commit a crime.
As you said, race and racial hatred in this country is not new and it isn't all white on black. There have been many people in this country who have been stigmatized and hated because of their ethnicity. The Chinese, the Irish, the Italians, jump readily to my mind.
My simpleminded thought process is that over time (a hundred years or so) the Irish, and the Italians, who had originally lived in ethnic communities, spread out and became somewhat 'diluted' amongst the population. Additionally they looked more like the general population. Contrast that with the Black experience. They have a markedly different skin tone that makes them readily identifiable as different than me. We all develop a certain degree of ethnocentrisim based on our upbringing and we often naturally shy away from those who are different.
In addition to that, or because of that, throughout much of the United States, segregation was practiced. The Armed Forces weren't desegregated until 1948, schools weren't desegregated until well after Brown v. Board of Education in 1954, poll taxes weren't totally overturned until 1966, segregation in housing wasn't declared illegal until 1968, when the Civil Rights Act of 1968 was signed into effect.
I mention all that because, up until the 60's, Blacks were in essence second class citizens. The 50 years following has not been long enough to complete the total assimilation of Blacks into all segments of American Society. Maybe in another 50 years we will be able to achieve that goal and look at more Americans as Americans and not as a Race, Religion, or Orientation.
I don't feel the need to paint with the broad brush of race, sex, religion, orientation, I have enough folks who have given me reason to dislike them by their actions.
SomeOtherGuy
06-19-15, 16:11
I do get your point, but for the most part it is lost on the rest of America.
In order to see that point, you would have to admit that Gun Control doesn't work. Rahm Emmanual isn't going to let that happen, even though his Son was robbed at gunpoint outside the Mayors Mansion.
Look, if these guys want to kill each other there is little that "Gun Control" can do to stop it. That is the fact and if you look at the numbers it is undeniable.
If it would be as in Chicago the only people willing to give up their guns are law obeying citizens. The lesson here to voters might be don't vote for those in power when they are allowing our kids to kill each other and arm yourselves.
The logic being only a good man with a gun can stop a bad man with a gun. I think this case, a killing of 9 in a "Gun Free Zone" only proves it.
Obviously we are each "the converted" and not persuading the other to something we already believe.
A lot of people are indifferent and not interested in learning, and many aren't bright to begin with. But I think it's still useful in talking to people to make the point that the outrage here is over a light weekend body count in Chicago, which also consists of mostly black people, and many of them are innocent (some portion are likely gangbangers and not too sympathetic - but not all). Anyone complaining about the NRA, Republicans or whites in general should be asked why Rahm hasn't stopped the killing of blacks in a city he runs, with no significant political opposition and oppressive gun laws. Make this point to undecided random people who bring up the topic, and see if they care about double digit weekend body counts, every .... single.... weekend.... in just one large city.
Outlander Systems
06-19-15, 17:25
Well I guess she thinks it's time for a race war.
JS, you are correct in stating Obama and Al will be fanning these flames.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/19/woman-calls-for-race-war-at-scene-of-church-shooting/
If someone was trying to drive a wedge between us all...I would say it's working.
Don't let it work. Learn from folks like Solove and Roof. As long as we're at each other's' necks, we're being played.
WickedWillis
06-19-15, 17:51
MSM wants a full-blown race war SOOOOO bad that they keep pissing gas on the fire.
Outlander Systems
06-19-15, 17:54
MSM wants a full-blown race war SOOOOO bad that they keep pissing gas on the fire.
As long as we are at each other's throats, we won't be united against the true butt****ing we are all on the receiving end of.
WickedWillis
06-19-15, 17:55
As long as we are at each other's throats, we won't be united against the true butt****ing we are all on the receiving end of.
Amen.
Outlander Systems
06-19-15, 17:57
Amen.
The House voted 218 to 208 to give Obama the fast-track authority to speed trade deals, including the TPP, to conclusion with reduced interference from Congress.
The TPP would encompass 40 percent of the global economy.
MOSCOW (AP) -- Russia's military will add over 40 new intercontinental ballistic missiles this year alone that are capable of piercing any missile defenses, President Vladimir Putin said Tuesday in a blunt reminder of the nation's nuclear might amid tensions with the West over Ukraine.
(Defense One) -- Today’s Army is on a dangerous path to humiliating defeat if — and quite likely, when — it takes on Russian, Chinese, or even second-tier nation-state forces equipped with modern military technology from Russia or China. Animated by visions of light troops mounted on wheels or falling out of airplanes, it is building a force for uncontested, permissive environments against weak peoples without armies, air forces, air defenses, or navies.
Nothing to see here, folks.
Well I guess she thinks it's time for a race war.
JS, you are correct in stating Obama and Al will be fanning these flames.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/19/woman-calls-for-race-war-at-scene-of-church-shooting/
Jesus christ....
Instead of a race war, wouldn't it be nice if all the ****ing racists just killed themselves.
She has the nerve to talk about the KKK, clearly she doesn't realize she isn't any different in any meaningful way. She is what she condemns.
If the kid went to home depot with 50$ and made a pipe bomb I wonder if we'd still be having this conversation.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-19-15, 19:00
If the kid went to home depot with 50$ and made a pipe bomb I wonder if we'd still be having this conversation.
Racist Plumbers!!!
As long as we are at each other's throats, we won't be united against the true butt****ing we are all on the receiving end of.
Divide and conquer. Governments and politicians having been doing for A LONG TIME.
brushy bill
06-19-15, 22:20
Fortunately, Bill O'Reilly just solved the "gun violence" problem by advocating a national registry. Way to go Bill. Great idea. There is a reason I have come to hate the "Factor".
Moose-Knuckle
06-19-15, 23:44
I also don't agree with your statement about crime, either one of us can make statistics say what we want, but the raw numbers don't seem to support your statement. In 2013 there were over 3,700.000 arrests made in the United States. Over 2,700,000 of those arrested were White; 930,000+ were Black. It would seem that the majority of crimes for which folks were arrested were committed by us White folks.
Hispanic / Latino is not a race, that ethnicity's "race" is considered "white". So that 2.7 million number in your post (if accurate) lumps ALL Hispanic offenders in with the "white" count.
In terms of the violent crimes, more whites were arrested in just about the same ratio. The exception was robbery, more Blacks were arrested for robbery than whites.
According to the 2010 Census, 74% of Americans are White; 12% are Black. So looking at those numbers, it is indeed true that a greater percentage of the Black population committed violent crimes than did those in the White population.
But the statement that 'most' violent crime is committed by Blacks is not accurate.
It does appear that as a percentage, Blacks are arrested at about twice the rate of White folks.
One of the first things Holder did when he was appointed AG was to censor the FBI publishing the crime demographic data they compile. The last numbers we have are from '07.
After researching the FBI numbers for "Suicide of a Superpower," this writer concluded: "An analysis of 'single offender victimization figures' from the FBI for 2007 finds blacks committed 433,934 crimes against whites, eight times the 55,685 whites committed against blacks. Interracial rape is almost exclusively black on white — with 14,000 assaults on white women by African Americans in 2007. Not one case of a white sexual assault on a black female was found in the FBI study."
Though blacks are outnumbered 5-to-1 in the population by whites, they commit eight times as many crimes against whites as the reverse. By those 2007 numbers, a black male was 40 times as likely to assault a white person as the reverse.
If interracial crime is the ugliest manifestation of racism, what does this tell us about where racism really resides — in America?
http://news.yahoo.com/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism-070000529.html
If the kid went to home depot with 50$ and made a pipe bomb I wonder if we'd still be having this conversation.
They'd be talking about how dangerous the internet is and how he was on a watch list. The fact of the matter is we have a disenfranchised youth, they have little hope of success and are blaming others for their own problems. Going after the symptoms doesn't solve the root problem.
Moose-Knuckle
06-20-15, 00:11
If someone was trying to drive a wedge between us all...I would say it's working.
Don't let it work. Learn from folks like Solove and Roof. As long as we're at each other's' necks, we're being played.
Yup, divide and conquer is an age old tactic. The powers at be want civil unrest for a multitude of reasons, none of which are advantageous to the survival of our Republic.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-20-15, 01:05
Do we have authoritative evidence of what gun he used and where he got it? Or are we going to have to wait for the trial?
Do we have authoritative evidence of what gun he used and where he got it? Or are we going to have to wait for the trial?
The story has changed about four times now, the last version I heard was it was a Glock 21 in .45, which he purchased himself with money he received for his birthday. After his arrest, his mother took the gun away, but, like the Sandy Hook shooter, he found it's not hard to take something from a parent and commit a crime with it.
Outlander Systems
06-20-15, 04:27
Yup, divide and conquer is an age old tactic. The powers at be want civil unrest for a multitude of reasons, none of which are advantageous to the survival of our Republic.
Nailed it.
MSM wants a full-blown race war SOOOOO bad that they keep pissing gas on the fire.
What would be better for rating than a race war?!
sevenhelmet
06-20-15, 10:26
What would be better for rating than a race war?!
What makes me incredibly sad is that it's already begun.
I can't help but feel at 31 years old that there is less freedom and less respect for your fellow American than there was when I was growing up. I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but when will people realize that caring about people, not the control of inanimate objects, is the real solution?
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-20-15, 12:30
I find it interesting that no one has talked about how it happened at a black church- in that why do we still have black and white Churches? I'm not saying that justified the shooting or anything like like. What I mean is that we have desegregated most of the US, but we still have a great divide in churches. Everyone can talk about how great diversity is and how it is better- but the one place that the govt can't actually mandate it, we still have a divide. Every other place is dictated by the govt and the courts, but left to our own devices, Churches are still are segregated to a larger degree than almost anywhere else that isn't 'discriminated' based on income (largely housing).
The Left would say that this shows how racist we actually are, I would say that it just shows how the tyranny of the left can only be held in place by the power of the govt. Left to our own devices, we are not as inclusive as many of of us (left and right) imply.
The fact that he could find a black church is more damning on a society than the fact that a lone crazy was able to walk in and shoot people. On top of that you have crazy CCW laws making a self-protection free zone.
How much easier can you make it for sociopaths?
Outlander Systems
06-20-15, 12:49
I find it interesting that no one has talked about how it happened at a black church- in that why do we still have black and white Churches? I'm not saying that justified the shooting or anything like like. What I mean is that we have desegregated most of the US, but we still have a great divide in churches. Everyone can talk about how great diversity is and how it is better- but the one place that the govt can't actually mandate it, we still have a divide. Every other place is dictated by the govt and the courts, but left to our own devices, Churches are still are segregated to a larger degree than almost anywhere else that isn't 'discriminated' based on income (largely housing).
The Left would say that this shows how racist we actually are, I would say that it just shows how the tyranny of the left can only be held in place by the power of the govt. Left to our own devices, we are not as inclusive as many of of us (left and right) imply.
The fact that he could find a black church is more damning on a society than the fact that a lone crazy was able to walk in and shoot people. On top of that you have crazy CCW laws making a self-protection free zone.
How much easier can you make it for sociopaths?
Damned good point.
[QUOTE=Moose-Knuckle;2139425]Hispanic / Latino is not a race, that ethnicity's "race" is considered "white". So that 2.7 million number in your post (if accurate) lumps ALL Hispanic offenders in with the "white" count.
I looked at 2013 Crime in the United States to check the race thing you mentioned below, that number wasn't correct, and you are correct regarding the Hispano/Latino.
One of the first things Holder did when he was appointed AG was to censor the FBI publishing the crime demographic data they compile. The last numbers we have are from '07.
I don't know anything about Holder doing that, I don't look at Crime in the United States on a regular basis. This is a link to a table from the 2013 edition of Crime in the United States, it lists arrests by race:
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43
Amp Mangum
06-20-15, 13:02
Colorado Springs vs. Charleston: The Church Massacre That Ended Differently:
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/06/19/colorado-springs-vs-charleston-the-church-massacre-that-ended-differently-n2014783?utm_source=TopBreakingNewsCarousel&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=BreakingNewsCarousel
The alleged perpetrator's manifesto: http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt
Allegedly there are photos on his site, too. I haven't browsed them.
I find it interesting that no one has talked about how it happened at a black church- in that why do we still have black and white Churches? I'm not saying that justified the shooting or anything like like. What I mean is that we have desegregated most of the US, but we still have a great divide in churches. Everyone can talk about how great diversity is and how it is better- but the one place that the govt can't actually mandate it, we still have a divide. Every other place is dictated by the govt and the courts, but left to our own devices, Churches are still are segregated to a larger degree than almost anywhere else that isn't 'discriminated' based on income (largely housing).
The Left would say that this shows how racist we actually are, I would say that it just shows how the tyranny of the left can only be held in place by the power of the govt. Left to our own devices, we are not as inclusive as many of of us (left and right) imply.
The fact that he could find a black church is more damning on a society than the fact that a lone crazy was able to walk in and shoot people. On top of that you have crazy CCW laws making a self-protection free zone.
How much easier can you make it for sociopaths?
I'm a hybrid Mennonite. The Mennonites are a pretty inclusive religion, at our Church, which has just over 600 members and has 3 services, each person is greeted at the door, if you are a first time attendee, you won't stand around very long before someone introduces themselves and strikes up a conversation. It is kind of the trademark of our Church - visitors from other Churches often comment how friendly we are.
We have folks from all walks of life attend services - no one is made to feel unwelcome - yet few folks who 'don't look like us' stick around. In our case that is for the most part white, middle to upper income. Our Church also dropped many of the traditional Mennonite trappings years ago in order to be more inclusive.
Really doesn't help any - most people tend to be more comfortable around people that resemble them - most often the delineation is racial, socio-economic, gender, or vocation - it is what it is, the thing is segregation shouldn't be forced upon anyone, IMO.
I find it interesting that no one has talked about how it happened at a black church- in that why do we still have black and white Churches? I'm not saying that justified the shooting or anything like like. What I mean is that we have desegregated most of the US, but we still have a great divide in churches. Everyone can talk about how great diversity is and how it is better- but the one place that the govt can't actually mandate it, we still have a divide. Every other place is dictated by the govt and the courts, but left to our own devices, Churches are still are segregated to a larger degree than almost anywhere else that isn't 'discriminated' based on income (largely housing).
The Left would say that this shows how racist we actually are, I would say that it just shows how the tyranny of the left can only be held in place by the power of the govt. Left to our own devices, we are not as inclusive as many of of us (left and right) imply.
The fact that he could find a black church is more damning on a society than the fact that a lone crazy was able to walk in and shoot people. On top of that you have crazy CCW laws making a self-protection free zone.
How much easier can you make it for sociopaths?
I wouldn't exactly say churches are segregated. At least not in the same way as they were in the 50s, 60s, etc.. It's more of a community thing; no one is barring non-blacks from attending any so called black churches. Just the same way that non-whites are free to attend white churches.
I remember a psychology professor of mine mentioned a study: in a large room were X amount of subjects. The first four or five subjects were all of different race/culture. They interacted fine. As more subjects were let into the room, small groups were starting to form; members of the same race/culture would stick with their own.
Now there wasn't any violence or anything, but it just showed people of a certain group/race/culture tend to stick to each other by nature.
I attend a multiracial Catholic Church locally; it's close, so it's convenient. When I have time, or if it's a holiday I prefer to attend a Polish church, but that's farther of a drive. They're not segregated at all, but we just like to keep a close-knit community.
I wouldn't exactly say churches are segregated. At least not in the same way as they were in the 50s, 60s, etc.. It's more of a community thing; no one is barring non-blacks from attending any so called black churches. Just the same way that non-whites are free to attend white churches.
I remember a psychology professor of mine mentioned a study: in a large room were X amount of subjects. The first four or five subjects were all of different race/culture. They interacted fine. As more subjects were let into the room, small groups were starting to form; members of the same race/culture would stick with their own.
Now there wasn't any violence or anything, but it just showed people of a certain group/race/culture tend to stick to each other by nature.
I attend a multiracial Catholic Church locally; it's close, so it's convenient. When I have time, or if it's a holiday I prefer to attend a Polish church, but that's farther of a drive. They're not segregated at all, but we just like to keep a close-knit community.
"Birds of a feather"... it is just a natural life thing. People worship different, cook different, love different, live different....wanting to be amongst your own race doesn't make a white guy a Nazi or a black guy a Black Panther.
The flip side is that mankind has been killing inside his own tribe since the beginning, so anything is possible right?
It is not my intention to over simplify the problem, only to say it has always been with us.
I wouldn't exactly say churches are segregated. At least not in the same way as they were in the 50s, 60s, etc.. It's more of a community thing; no one is barring non-blacks from attending any so called black churches. Just the same way that non-whites are free to attend white churches.
Agreed. Most churches in the States are probably majority "white churches", mostly because a majority of church goers are white. That doesn't mean they're racist, or segregated. I'm from small-town Kansas, and we may have 2-3 African American members of our church, but our last Preacher was Kenyan.
I find it interesting that no one has talked about how it happened at a black church- in that why do we still have black and white Churches? I'm not saying that justified the shooting or anything like like. What I mean is that we have desegregated most of the US, but we still have a great divide in churches. Everyone can talk about how great diversity is and how it is better- but the one place that the govt can't actually mandate it, we still have a divide. Every other place is dictated by the govt and the courts, but left to our own devices, Churches are still are segregated to a larger degree than almost anywhere else that isn't 'discriminated' based on income (largely housing).
The Left would say that this shows how racist we actually are, I would say that it just shows how the tyranny of the left can only be held in place by the power of the govt. Left to our own devices, we are not as inclusive as many of of us (left and right) imply.
The fact that he could find a black church is more damning on a society than the fact that a lone crazy was able to walk in and shoot people. On top of that you have crazy CCW laws making a self-protection free zone.
How much easier can you make it for sociopaths?
Honestly, if he was able to sit down and attend services without issue, it really isn't segregated. I get what you are saying, but I think black colleges are a better example of the bias.
With black churches we must consider cultural heritage and respect it, the same way we respect that not everyone see's the confederate flag as a symbol of hate and the same way we understand having "In God We Trust" on our currency doesn't make us a Christian theocracy.
Outlander Systems
06-20-15, 15:40
Black churches are way more fun. They actually seem to have a fellowship. Most of the churches I've attended have been a bunch of political posturing, backstabbing, judgemental cliques, and stuffy.
I cannot fathom a church populated by any race that, in the true way of Christianity, would turn someone away because they didn't "fit in". I'm not a religious person but am well aware of Christianity's teachings and hey, if you're gonna talk the talk then walk the walk.
Black churches are way more fun. They actually seem to have a fellowship. Most of the churches I've attended have been a bunch of political posturing, backstabbing, judgemental cliques, and stuffy.
Folks are way underestimating worship style & tradition as a factor. Even AME has a different style/feel than the African Baptist Church 1 block away with the same demographics.
Same for mostly white churches... Different songs, music style, preaching style. All are good folks, all trying to do the right thing.
I have no doubt that racist churches can still be found, white and black. But if it exists its most likely an echo of their culture, not any creed or dogma.
Our church is about 10-15% "POC", which is about the same as our demographic. Three miles away you can find similar, right next to one that is 90% POC.
It's a choice by free association, not a dogma/segregation thing.
In our area there are probably 10-15 different flavors of Baptist side by side, and most are not aligned across racial/cultural boundaries. And any would welcome any race/culture, be glad to have them. Try to change their particular style/belief and there'd probably be resistance though.
[QUOTE=Moose-Knuckle;2139425]Hispanic / Latino is not a race, that ethnicity's "race" is considered "white". So that 2.7 million number in your post (if accurate) lumps ALL Hispanic offenders in with the "white" count.
I looked at 2013 Crime in the United States to check the race thing you mentioned below, that number wasn't correct, and you are correct regarding the Hispano/Latino.
One of the first things Holder did when he was appointed AG was to censor the FBI publishing the crime demographic data they compile. The last numbers we have are from '07.
I don't know anything about Holder doing that, I don't look at Crime in the United States on a regular basis. This is a link to a table from the 2013 edition of Crime in the United States, it lists arrests by race:
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43
Why on earth would they not separate caucasians from hispanics in a chart like this. That's ridiculous! This would be a whole different set of numbers and percentages if "whites" and "Mexicans" were each in their own categories...
Amp Mangum
06-20-15, 19:42
On June 18, Breitbart News reached out to missionary and author Charl van Wyk for comment on the heinous attack on Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina. Van Wyk survived a church massacre in South Africa in 1993 by returning fire on the attacker. He has since become an advocate for gun rights.
http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/06/19/survivor-of-1993-church-massacre-by-gods-grace-i-managed-to-return-fire/
Precisely. Mr. Van Wyk is exactly right. The fact of the matter is that reforming the NICS system wouldn't have changed this tradgedy from happening. That line of thought is chasing the rabbit down the hole. There are a multitude of avenues that evil people will use to slaughter the innocent and he, or anyone bent on terror, will find one of those avenues.
Expand the ability of citizens to practice their rights!
Well this is interesting...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/south-carolina-church-shooting-were-dylann-roof-photos-digitally-altered-disturbing-forensic-evidence/5457161
South Carolina Church Shooting: Were Photos of Dylann Storm Roof Digitally Altered? Disturbing Forensic Evidence
The following is a forensic image that resulted when employing ELA to the widely-circulated photo of South Carolina Church massacre gunman Dylann Storm Roof wearing his jacket with the historic patches denoting Africa’s colonial past:
https://memorygapdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/roof_apartheid_flags.jpg?w=616&h=416
Image Credit: Facebook
https://memorygapdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/roof_ela_analysis.png?w=616&h=416
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=29642b707d52f525b2ef8748761418651465c582.87289&show=ela
ELA reveals areas where the patches appear that suggest a differing compression speed and thus possible manipulation. In other words, the Apartheid-era patches attributed to Roof may have been digitally inserted into the above image to accentuate the narrative of Roof’s racist motivations in the tragic slayings.
"Every Mass Shooting Shares One Thing In Common & It’s NOT Weapons."
http://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/every-mass-shooting-in-the-last-20-years-shares-psychotropic-drugs/#axzz3dXUcBZtr
"Every Mass Shooting Shares One Thing In Common & It’s NOT Weapons."
http://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/every-mass-shooting-in-the-last-20-years-shares-psychotropic-drugs/#axzz3dXUcBZtr
There is another drug that needs to be investigated. This one is far more insidious with its use having been linked to early death, blindness, heart attacks, stokes, renal failure, and even limb loss. What is this scourge that has been unleashed by the unscrupulous pharmaceutical industry? Insulin...;)
MountainRaven
06-21-15, 13:51
There is another drug that needs to be investigated. This one is far more insidious with its use having been linked to early death, blindness, heart attacks, stokes, renal failure, and even limb loss. What is this scourge that has been unleashed by the unscrupulous pharmaceutical industry? Insulin...;)
Is it as bad as dihydrogen monoxide?
Facts About Dihydrogen Monoxide (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html).
What is the link between Dihydrogen Monoxide and school violence?
A recent stunning revelation is that in every single instance of violence in our country's schools, including infamous shootings in high schools in Denver and Arkansas, Dihydrogen Monoxide was involved. In fact, DHMO is often very available to students of all ages within the assumed safe confines of school buildings. None of the school administrators with which we spoke could say for certain how much of the substance is in use within their very hallways.
There is another drug that needs to be investigated. This one is far more insidious with its use having been linked to early death, blindness, heart attacks, stokes, renal failure, and even limb loss. What is this scourge that has been unleashed by the unscrupulous pharmaceutical industry? Insulin...;)
Pro gun/2A people hate it (and rightly so) when there's a poorly made correlation/causation made between guns and X, yet ignore it when it's used to support some other position they made hold onto, such SSRI's and mass shootings. That article is poor science and nonsense and the author would go nuts (no pun intended) if it was used to discuss guns in the same manner. Chicken or the egg: those who have gone into mass shootings have been identified as having psychological issues and given an SSRI, not that SSRIs cause non violent people to go on shooting sprees. As always, a risk benefit assessment exists, just as it does for guns.
Two essential points, SSRI's are over prescribed in my view to be sure and the lack of mental health care options that exist (a major component of the system that needs to be improved likely could reduce these events) is what should be the focus. The recent spree killers were on SSRIs as causal to those events is a tin foil hat non starter, but does expose the fact that these drugs simply don't cover what's needed.
Yet another fu^#ed up kid who was given SSRI's which were likely the only option they had.
3 people die each day drowning and 1 more for boating accidents
11 kids die each day from texting and driving and or drinking while texting is higher than drinking now and 100 injured in that day because of this
yet I never see anyone wanting to ban cell phones and pools and blame the pools or cell phones ?
Is it as bad as dihydrogen monoxide?
Facts About Dihydrogen Monoxide (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html).
Hydrogen hydroxide is even worse! Or hydroxyl hydride?
Mentally ill people on mind altering drugs are dangerous. McVeigh didn't use a gun.
At the end of the day, if someone was carrying, 9 people might still be alive. If guns were banned, he could have killed using other means.
Hydrogen hydroxide is even worse! Or hydroxyl hydride?
Mentally ill people on mind altering drugs are dangerous. McVeigh didn't use a gun.
At the end of the day, if someone was carrying, 9 people might still be alive. If guns were banned, he could have killed using other means.
Guns are used 100% of the time in gun crime. :cool:
Cincinnatus
06-21-15, 17:53
If guns were banned, psychos would still get GUNS; they would not have to do it another way. Gun. Bans. Don't. Work.
:cool:
Outlander Systems
06-21-15, 18:33
If I had to wager a bet....
...I'd say none of the mass shooters since the late 90's have ever had girlfriends.
Mauser KAR98K
06-21-15, 18:39
If I had to wager a bet....
...I'd say none of the mass shooters since the late 90's have ever had girlfriends.
There was that couple in Vegas...
[QUOTE=26 Inf;2139600]
Why on earth would they not separate caucasians from hispanics in a chart like this. That's ridiculous! This would be a whole different set of numbers and percentages if "whites" and "Mexicans" were each in their own categories...
Probably because "Mexican" is a nationality???
SilverBullet432
06-21-15, 19:09
"Every Mass Shooting Shares One Thing In Common & It’s NOT Weapons."
http://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/every-mass-shooting-in-the-last-20-years-shares-psychotropic-drugs/#axzz3dXUcBZtr
This I believe. The pharmaceutical industry is the blame, "spend more on medical care!" Spend! Spend! Buy health insurance, buy!
Seems to me you have to be really screwed in the head to commit mass murder. Taking an SSRI would seem to me to be an indication something was going on depression-wise. No meds are perfect, but I'd be willing to bet SSRI's have kept a lot more folks from going postal than they've caused to go postal.
Of course you can't prove that.
Maybe we should take a poll of how many forum members are on, or have been on, SSRI's?
Cause and effect. Are the med causing crime, or are crazy people on meds? Answer seems simple to me.
Also, fwiw, on forms I've seen, middle eastern is Caucasian which I was suprised at. So are Egyptians Caucasian or "black?" Would they not be African-American?
I would wager the vast majority of mass killers throughout history were not taking SSRI's. Blame guns...blame pills...It's called evil and it isnt going anywhere.
Seems to me you have to be really screwed in the head to commit mass murder. Taking an SSRI would seem to me to be an indication something was going on depression-wise. No meds are perfect, but I'd be willing to bet SSRI's have kept a lot more folks from going postal than they've caused to go postal.
Of course you can't prove that.
Maybe we should take a poll of how many forum members are on, or have been on, SSRI's?
They are also used for a wide range of other things. Insomnia, anxiety, OCD, "anger" or impulse control problems. Id wager the problem is less the medication, than people just have shitty coping mechanisms and dont put in the effort to change.
sevenhelmet
06-21-15, 20:45
Correlation does not imply causation. Should every individual on any kind of anti-depression or similar medication be barred from owning guns? I don't think so.
I do think our medical industry is overly reliant on pharmaceutical solutions vs. alternative solutions such as therapy for psychological issues, but in my opinion that's as much a result of the stigma on psychological problems as it is a result of big corporations influencing the industry. I find it frustrating that while people can be gay, transexual, "trans-abled", or whatever the latest MSM hoopla is, a person who seeks psychological treatment for any one of a number common psychological issues is completely discredited or worse. Case in point: My job requires a security clearance. If I ever sought treatment for a problem such as depression or anxiety, I stand a very good chance of losing my clearance and subsequently, my job. Under some suggested legislation I would also lose my firearms. So what's the impetus for me to seek treatment? Individuals in the public eye have it even worse. How about an "attaboy" for taking ownership of the problem and seeking treatment? That alone would be a huge step.
However, I attribute just as much of this to the increasingly lost sense of community and the rapid changes in communication over the past 20-30 years. It's far easier for kids in their formative years to be isolated behind a keyboard or game console now, without the stabilizing influence of a community of people to help them form into well-rounded individuals.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-22-15, 00:14
The problem is that there aren't a lot of mass shooter, who weren't on SSRIs. You'd think that with health care not available to all that there would be more people falling thru the cracks. It seems we have a strong enough psych healthcare system to get these guys SSRIs but not strong enough to stop them from killing- eventhough most of them all but posted plans ahead of time. Some of them even did that. There doesn't need to be a conspiracy to link SSRIs and mass murders, or any cover up. Mass shootings are so rare that it is tough to do any kind of statistics on it. Anecdotally, they are all nut jobs with guns. Some had pipe bombs, armoured cars, body armour, gym memberships, library cards and bought something on Amazon.
One thing I was just looking at was how much of an abject failure the Australian gun ban experience has been. They can tout all the declines in murder and suicides- but the hitch is those declines just follow an arc of decline from before the ban went into place. Even then, the murder rate hardly budges.
Lott has some good graphs on it. It's like Happy Hour waitress taking credit for making the sun go down while she served you drinks.
http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2012/08/some-notes-on-claims-about-australias.html
Averageman
06-22-15, 06:43
Seems to me you have to be really screwed in the head to commit mass murder. Taking an SSRI would seem to me to be an indication something was going on depression-wise. No meds are perfect, but I'd be willing to bet SSRI's have kept a lot more folks from going postal than they've caused to go postal.
Of course you can't prove that.
Maybe we should take a poll of how many forum members are on, or have been on, SSRI's?
They are also used for a wide range of other things. Insomnia, anxiety, OCD, "anger" or impulse control problems. Id wager the problem is less the medication, than people just have shitty coping mechanisms and dont put in the effort to change.
I wonder how many people who are prescribed these medications are also prescribed some sort of counseling or perhaps have someone close enough in their lives to provide some sort of sounding board or empathetic ear to listen to them?
It still to me comes down to how many people ignore the fact that these guys have announced their intentions many times before the go off of the deep end and do harm.
If you come up to me and tell me you're considering doing some sort of harm to a group of people, I think I'm going to sit down with you and talk until the guys with the butterfly net come scoop you up.
It's an observable fact, sure. I tend to think associating the two is much like your analogy with the waitress. The two coincide but may not necessarily be entirely reliant upon one another. If the SSRI's were taken out of the equation there would still be people shooting other people, bombing other people, killing by whatever means.
Could SSRI's play a role? It seems they could. But chasing causation with the intention of ending a rare and tiny focal point of violence is asking to be baited into a manipulative and entrapping scenario. Utopia is unattainable. With that said I would also avoid SSRI's.
The problem is that there aren't a lot of mass shooter, who weren't on SSRIs.
Thanks for the link. Good info.
I'd like to know how many of these killers were first given these drugs by the school nurse.
As much as I believe that SSRI and other psych meds, hell pills in general, are over prescribed I don't for one second believe that they are the root cause. IMO they are as much the root cause as the implements they choose to use in their rampages.
I do however believes that they do have a role to play in the problem. IMO that role is either due to arrogance or neglect. We are either too arrogant to admit that we don't know what we don't know when it comes to the human brain and so we fall prey to the take this pill and call me if anything doesn't feel right mentality which leads to people not truly getting the help they need. Or we are truly neglecting people because we are slaves to an industry trying to make as much cash as possible and as such we don't care what happens to the 1% of the folks who don't react well to these meds. Or maybe it's a bit of both.
WickedWillis
06-22-15, 11:17
Well this is interesting...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/south-carolina-church-shooting-were-dylann-roof-photos-digitally-altered-disturbing-forensic-evidence/5457161
South Carolina Church Shooting: Were Photos of Dylann Storm Roof Digitally Altered? Disturbing Forensic Evidence
That is not surprising.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-22-15, 11:53
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/earl-holt-dylann-roof-2016-gop-donations/index.html
BHO can hang out with the actual terrorists and we're racists for pointing it out. From Nadal to the Texas-Gruesome-twosome all were aligned with Islam, but the religion has nothing to do about it.
Roof has an association to Holt and it's an indictment of the GOP.
I wonder how many people who are prescribed these medications are also prescribed some sort of counseling or perhaps have someone close enough in their lives to provide some sort of sounding board or empathetic ear to listen to them?
It still to me comes down to how many people ignore the fact that these guys have announced their intentions many times before the go off of the deep end and do harm.
If you come up to me and tell me you're considering doing some sort of harm to a group of people, I think I'm going to sit down with you and talk until the guys with the butterfly net come scoop you up.
I personally bring it up all the time, usually before I suggest meds. Hell, I have a psychologist two hallways over where I work. About half take me up on the offer. Few complete more than two or three sessions.
You cant make someone change.
As for involuntary admissions, that ability varies widely by state.
comparing Bill Ayers
and so true !!!!!
the left loves bill even though he has done the same things as this sicko
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/22/only-difference-between-dylann-roof-and-bill-ayers-is-legitimacy-among-the-left/
Averageman
06-22-15, 19:43
I personally bring it up all the time, usually before I suggest meds. Hell, I have a psychologist two hallways over where I work. About half take me up on the offer. Few complete more than two or three sessions.
You cant make someone change.
As for involuntary admissions, that ability varies widely by state.
Thanks, I like to think someone is doing it.
While SSRI's may indeed be an issue to be looked at closely, it still doesn't excuse the actions. This sub-human piece of shit prayed with these people for an hour and then murdered them. He needs to be killed 9 times over if it was possible. Just like freak-f**k Lanza should've been killed 20 times over if he had survived and not pussed out and killed his own sorry ass. I would've drown Andrea Yates 5 times over and revived her each time until the last one, then down for the count.
I have ZERO sympathy/empathy for cold-blooded murderers. None whatsoever. I don't care if they were molested every day as a child......it doesn't erase what they did, it doesn't restore life to their victims. I'm an absolutist. Kill in cold-blood (unprovoked, not some guy in a bar fight or some dude who finds his wife in bed with another guy) and you forfeit your life. Period.
I'd like to know how many of these killers were first given these drugs by the school nurse.
Very few to none. - they have to be prescribed.
brickboy240
06-23-15, 09:40
These 9 people would still be alive if SC had taken down that icky ol flag!
Averageman
06-23-15, 10:09
While SSRI's may indeed be an issue to be looked at closely, it still doesn't excuse the actions. This sub-human piece of shit prayed with these people for an hour and then murdered them. He needs to be killed 9 times over if it was possible. Just like freak-f**k Lanza should've been killed 20 times over if he had survived and not pussed out and killed his own sorry ass. I would've drown Andrea Yates 5 times over and revived her each time until the last one, then down for the count.
I have ZERO sympathy/empathy for cold-blooded murderers. None whatsoever. I don't care if they were molested every day as a child......it doesn't erase what they did, it doesn't restore life to their victims. I'm an absolutist. Kill in cold-blood (unprovoked, not some guy in a bar fight or some dude who finds his wife in bed with another guy) and you forfeit your life. Period.
I agree wholeheartedly.
When a killer like this is caught, admits his guilt and has a treasure trove of hate filled media on record, I'm not sure why we have a delay bringing these guys to trial.
I'm not sure why someone couldn't be appointed as his legal representative and the issue be taken to court immediately. As he has admitted his guilt, how much legal time, space and money are required to sentence him?
On the other hand the very same folks who would bemoan the Confederate Battle Flag and our rough and rowdy Southern ways would more than likely feel he isn't being treated as kindly and carefully as he should.
Perhaps when insanity and hatred are mixed in such a manner, like a mad dog in the streets, some of these folks just need to be put down?
Moose-Knuckle
06-23-15, 13:39
Well this is interesting...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/south-carolina-church-shooting-were-dylann-roof-photos-digitally-altered-disturbing-forensic-evidence/5457161
South Carolina Church Shooting: Were Photos of Dylann Storm Roof Digitally Altered? Disturbing Forensic Evidence
This is where my concerns lay . . .
"In an era of mass illusion where digital representations can be so easily and convincingly altered to accommodate or bolster a specific story line, the importance of such analysis cannot be understated. Like the Sandy Hook School shootings, the Charleston Church massacre represents an emotionally potent and divisive powder keg, especially because it is positioned to draw on conflicting sets of socio-cultural experience, identity, and history.
Yet through individual images such as the above perhaps a larger picture can be discerned. As with Sandy Hook, the June 17 event will be used as a rationale for a raft of government agendas long sought after with the express purpose of “keeping the public safe.” Such programs can be judiciously considered only after the tremendous government and media-fueled wave of fear and alarm has passed–indeed, only after the American public knows what really happened."
Business_Casual
06-24-15, 05:52
Would you find it shocking to know there was an active shooter exercise in Charleston that week?
SomeOtherGuy
06-24-15, 07:01
Would you find it shocking to know there was an active shooter exercise in Charleston that week?
But where, what scenario, and how frequently do they hold such exercises?
I know about the seeming correlation between certain training exercises and real incidents.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-24-15, 08:06
Would you find it shocking to know there was an active shooter exercise in Charleston that week?
Well this is interesting...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/south-carolina-church-shooting-were-dylann-roof-photos-digitally-altered-disturbing-forensic-evidence/5457161
South Carolina Church Shooting: Were Photos of Dylann Storm Roof Digitally Altered? Disturbing Forensic Evidence
The whole conspiracy thing I never get. It's like the Kennedy thing- a conspiracy so big that remains silent. I'm not naive enough to think that there aren't hidden govt or NGO activities, but heck the State Dept Benghazi thing is out in the open and no one cares. When we get into speculative theories I think it makes it distracts from the main issue that a crazy went and killed these people.
Focus on the real issue of mental health and stop the crazy idea that the lack of universal background checks or the confederate flag are the cause of this.
Manchild and Tumor are supposedly coming back for UBC, but that fell of the headline on Drudge and I don't see it on CNN. Speaking of which, go to CNNs mainpage now. There is not a single item on the front page 'above the fold' that is truly relevant. My car was in the shop yesterday and CNN was on an it was a full hour about nothing but Confederate flags and the two escaped prisoners- and how they'll face wolves, bears and mostly mosquitos and flies- oh my! I am glad to hear that the female employee that helped them escape told her husband that she didn't have sex with the two inmates- or at least that is what she told him ;)
We don't need conspiracies to keep things underwraps, all we need is a good Kimye story.
What are the current issues that Progressives are pushing? Trans-sexual rights, banning the Confederate flag, cakes for gay people, police beating up on thugs, income inequality while we import poor people and climate change based on more fudged numbers.
Crazy.
SilverBullet432
06-24-15, 09:22
Of course ^ media only focuses on social issues not the REAL picture (mental health, prescriptions making people go crazy etc.)
brickboy240
06-24-15, 09:29
Of course not.
The pharmaceutical industry gives tons to Democrat politicians.
Big media and the Democrats are not going to dog on big pharma...no sir!
Follow the money...
Crow Hunter
06-24-15, 09:41
I don't think SSRIs that are doing it.
It is when people stop taking their medications, for whatever reason, that it becomes a problem.
Personal experience:
My mother was taking a very small dose of an anti-depressant for nearly a decade, unbeknownst to me. It was prescribed by a doctor after my Father passed away. Part of the complications of her cancer treatment caused her to be unable to swallow for a time. Which meant she was no longer getting this SSRI. It had a significant effect on her mental state. My Mother had never in her entire life ever mentioned suicide and she began asking people to bring her a knife so she could kill herself.
I am not a doctor and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night but I think that the brain chemistry becomes "addicted" to these substances. When they are no longer there, the brain chemistry gets upended and this can affect peoples ability to think clearly and rationally.
It undoubtedly helps many, many people and it is undoubtedly an effective treatment. However, just like a gun, it is a tool that can be misused and can result in some really tragic consequences.
I don't know the answer but I think it is something that should be pursued much more than it is and it should be a much larger focus than guns or gun laws.
SomeOtherGuy
06-24-15, 09:58
I don't think SSRIs that are doing it.
It is when people stop taking their medications, for whatever reason, that it becomes a problem.
Personal experience:
My mother was taking a very small dose of an anti-depressant for nearly a decade, unbeknownst to me. It was prescribed by a doctor after my Father passed away. Part of the complications of her cancer treatment caused her to be unable to swallow for a time. Which meant she was no longer getting this SSRI. It had a significant effect on her mental state. My Mother had never in her entire life ever mentioned suicide and she began asking people to bring her a knife so she could kill herself.
I am not a doctor and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night but I think that the brain chemistry becomes "addicted" to these substances. When they are no longer there, the brain chemistry gets upended and this can affect peoples ability to think clearly and rationally.
It undoubtedly helps many, many people and it is undoubtedly an effective treatment. However, just like a gun, it is a tool that can be misused and can result in some really tragic consequences.
I don't know the answer but I think it is something that should be pursued much more than it is and it should be a much larger focus than guns or gun laws.
Side effects that happen on withdrawal are still an effect of the drug. I've been reading on the SSRI topic for a while and have discussed it with a pharmacist, and it seems that SSRIs have different effects on different people, but for some people the SSRIs cause various bizarre thoughts and potential behavior while taking them, and for others after a person stops taking them, and for some it may be both while on and after stopping. The correlation between spree killers and SSRI use (active or withdrawal) seems to be well over two-thirds, and probably 90% or more, based on what had been published at ssristories.com (down at the moment). Incidentally, SSRI use also seems to have a very strong correlation with the weird epidemic of adult women seducing underage boys. Another site, which has a similar name but I'm not sure if it's the same as or a newer version of ssristories.com, is:
http://www.ssristories.net/
Look specifically at school shootings:
http://www.ssristories.net/school-shootings/
It seems to me that the SSRI medications have major side effects in some people, which are not well addressed. The fact that X number of people may take them and not do awful things isn't enough if there is any meaningful number of people who take them and do awful things with no apparent cause except the SSRI drugs.
My view: SSRI's cause craziness like high blood pressure medicine causes heart attacks.
People take them because of mental issues to start with. That some percentage of them go crazy is a prime example of "correlation is not causation"
Having a relative who has been on and off them, the difference is dramatic. With his meds he can and does function as a productive member of society. Without them he throws boiling water on his mom, burns his car, and hides naked in a dumpster communicating with the Mossad via a clock radio.
Your brain literally plays tricks on you, and the meds can stop that.
I have no doubt there can be side effects, but they are small in comparison to not having the meds.
Of course not.
The pharmaceutical industry gives tons to Democrat politicians.
Big media and the Democrats are not going to dog on big pharma...no sir!
Follow the money...
Did you check into that? Historically pharma donates more to Repubs with closing in on equal amounts to both parties in the last decade or so.
Averageman
06-24-15, 10:18
My view: SSRI's cause craziness like high blood pressure medicine causes heart attacks.
People take them because of mental issues to start with. That some percentage of them go crazy is a prime example of "correlation is not causation"
Having a relative who has been on and off them, the difference is dramatic. With his meds he can and does function as a productive member of society. Without them he throws boiling water on his mom, burns his car, and hides naked in a dumpster communicating with the Mossad via a clock radio.
Your brain literally plays tricks on you, and the meds can stop that.
I have no doubt there can be side effects, but they are small in comparison to not having the meds.
I agree with what you're saying and that Sir is my understanding of the drugs.
But as I have asked before, if a patient is in such shape as that these must be prescribed, why aren't the given counseling along with the drugs? If our healthcare system say's "You need these to interact normally in Society, take one twice a day." Why aren't we adding "And here is the name of your Shrink and you need to see him once a week."?
These guys are falling through the cracks because it is expedient not to take a closer look at them.
I agree with what you're saying and that Sir is my understanding of the drugs.
But as I have asked before, if a patient is in such shape as that these must be prescribed, why aren't the given counseling along with the drugs? If our healthcare system say's "You need these to interact normally in Society, take one twice a day." Why aren't we adding "And here is the name of your Shrink and you need to see him once a week."?
These guys are falling through the cracks because it is expedient not to take a closer look at them.
Because treatment is not the priority. Money is. There is more money
to be made under a management model that perpetuates the revolving door. And besides that making sure someone remains compliant with their meds is difficult enough, let alone being compliant with any form of psychotherapy or counseling. Probably could get into the discipline differences between psychiatry and psychology too.
Crow Hunter
06-24-15, 10:58
I agree with what you're saying and that Sir is my understanding of the drugs.
But as I have asked before, if a patient is in such shape as that these must be prescribed, why aren't the given counseling along with the drugs? If our healthcare system say's "You need these to interact normally in Society, take one twice a day." Why aren't we adding "And here is the name of your Shrink and you need to see him once a week."?
These guys are falling through the cracks because it is expedient not to take a closer look at them.
In the case of my Mom, it was wrongly prescribed by a family doctor in a misguided attempt to help her get through the shock of losing my Father at only 62 years of age. He thought it would help her, and it did. Unfortunately she then needed it to cope from that day forward because I believe that her brain chemistry changed. When she could no longer swallow, it really changed her mood and her thoughts.
I firmly believe that if she had not been on those drugs a Significant amount of the anxiety and emotional distress that she had in her last few weeks of life could have been avoided.
There is no history of any mental illness in any of her family.
Of course we also found out later that she had a tumor on her left adrenal gland that may have been some influence, however the real roller coaster started when she first lost the ability to swallow her medication.
I think the methamphetamine and whatever other illegal drugs would have more to do with insanity than the prescriptions. And that's ignoring the insanity before any drugs were taken.
sevenhelmet
06-24-15, 11:11
^This. Wasn't he arrested on LSD charges too? Pretty mind-altering stuff from what I've heard.
SomeOtherGuy
06-24-15, 11:37
This Dylan guy was apparently using a wide range of illegal drugs and I wouldn't be surprised if he has/had various mental issues going on, both related and unrelated to those illegal drugs. He is not the SSRI killer poster child. However, there have been a number of other killers who had relatively more normal backgrounds and didn't have much in the way of risk factors other than SSRI use. You can use the links above if interested.
As for the view that anyone using SSRIs was already crazy - I don't agree. Sure, some may already have been crazy, but the SSRI class of drugs is very, very widely prescribed, and for each crazy person getting them there are probably three or four people who (prior to using them) were basically normal sane people going through a rough patch with mild depression. It seems like some doctors want to prescribe these like aspirin, and until recently there seems to have been no attention to psychological side effects.
Moose-Knuckle
06-24-15, 11:42
Would you find it shocking to know there was an active shooter exercise in Charleston that week?
Now that doesn't surprise me in the least. Seems to always be a "training for XYZ terror attack"; West, TX plant explosion, Boston Marathon, etc. I saw a list once, there out there that have links to all the training events right before and or during incidents.
Business_Casual
06-24-15, 12:35
The whole conspiracy thing I never get. It's like the Kennedy thing- a conspiracy so big that remains silent. I'm not naive enough to think that there aren't hidden govt or NGO activities, but heck the State Dept Benghazi thing is out in the open and no one cares. When we get into speculative theories I think it makes it distracts from the main issue that a crazy went and killed these people.
Focus on the real issue of mental health and stop the crazy idea that the lack of universal background checks or the confederate flag are the cause of this.
Manchild and Tumor are supposedly coming back for UBC, but that fell of the headline on Drudge and I don't see it on CNN. Speaking of which, go to CNNs mainpage now. There is not a single item on the front page 'above the fold' that is truly relevant. My car was in the shop yesterday and CNN was on an it was a full hour about nothing but Confederate flags and the two escaped prisoners- and how they'll face wolves, bears and mostly mosquitos and flies- oh my! I am glad to hear that the female employee that helped them escape told her husband that she didn't have sex with the two inmates- or at least that is what she told him ;)
We don't need conspiracies to keep things underwraps, all we need is a good Kimye story.
What are the current issues that Progressives are pushing? Trans-sexual rights, banning the Confederate flag, cakes for gay people, police beating up on thugs, income inequality while we import poor people and climate change based on more fudged numbers.
Crazy.
Where did I say anything about conspiracies? How is that .gov disinformation job going, buddy?
Averageman
06-24-15, 12:47
Because treatment is not the priority. Money is. There is more money
to be made under a management model that perpetuates the revolving door. And besides that making sure someone remains compliant with their meds is difficult enough, let alone being compliant with any form of psychotherapy or counseling. Probably could get into the discipline differences between psychiatry and psychology too.
Does big pharma offer and ethics class for crack dealers?
I'm wondering because in many cases it would seem that the operate from the same code of ethics.
This guy was a combination of bad decisions and drugs, both prescription and street, his own and his families. Why no one had this knucklehead committed for at least a psych eval is beyond reason.
People have come out and said "He told me he was going to kill" and yet no one stepped up to the plate and sent someone out to snatch his ass up for an evaluation. Between the arrests and the prescription drugs and the money given to him being spent on a gun, just how many people saw this coming?
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-24-15, 14:11
Where did I say anything about conspiracies? How is that .gov disinformation job going, buddy?
Actually, you didn't- you just implied it. Why else would you bring up that there was AS training in Charleston? What was your intent with the question?
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-24-15, 14:27
My view: SSRI's cause craziness like high blood pressure medicine causes heart attacks.
People take them because of mental issues to start with. That some percentage of them go crazy is a prime example of "correlation is not causation"
Having a relative who has been on and off them, the difference is dramatic. With his meds he can and does function as a productive member of society. Without them he throws boiling water on his mom, burns his car, and hides naked in a dumpster communicating with the Mossad via a clock radio.
Your brain literally plays tricks on you, and the meds can stop that.
I have no doubt there can be side effects, but they are small in comparison to not having the meds.
The problem is that there are actually few AS that AREN'T on SSRIs. (ETA: You'd think there were enough crazy people to shoot things up having never seen been on them, but it doesn't seem to happen.) Now maybe they are off their meds and that was the issue, but that takes you back to SSRIs. The left wants to make sweeping changes to gun laws when the real issue is somewhere between SSRI side effects and compliance with prescriptions.
And of course none of this affects the majority of the criminal shootings which are gang related.
The real issue is the number of suicides, you can break it out with guns or with out, but the real issue is that a large number of people kill themselves with guns- and a handful a year decide to kill other people first- these are the AS in almost all the cases.
UBC, mag limits, bayonets and pistol grips don't matter. It seems waiting periods might, but I've never seen it actually never make an effect.
Averageman
06-24-15, 14:33
The problem is that there are actually few AS that AREN'T on SSRIs. Now maybe they are off their meds and that was the issue, but that takes you back to SSRIs. The left wants to make sweeping changes to gun laws when the real issue is somewhere between SSRI side effects and compliance with prescriptions.
And of course none of this affects the majority of the criminal shootings which are gang related.
The real issue is the number of suicides, you can break it out with guns or with out, but the real issue is that a large number of people kill themselves with guns- and a handful a year decide to kill other people first- these are the AS in almost all the cases.
UBC, mag limits, bayonets and pistol grips don't matter. It seems waiting periods might, but I've never seen it actually never make an effect.
The very nature of insanity makes controlling it very difficult.
Taking the guns away from everyone in a case like this is like making all the kids stay out of the sandbox because Mikey like to eat cat dookey. Mikey's is nut's keep him in the house where you can keep and eye on him.
This Dylan guy was apparently using a wide range of illegal drugs and I wouldn't be surprised if he has/had various mental issues going on, both related and unrelated to those illegal drugs. He is not the SSRI killer poster child. However, there have been a number of other killers who had relatively more normal backgrounds and didn't have much in the way of risk factors other than SSRI use. You can use the links above if interested.
As for the view that anyone using SSRIs was already crazy - I don't agree. Sure, some may already have been crazy, but the SSRI class of drugs is very, very widely prescribed, and for each crazy person getting them there are probably three or four people who (prior to using them) were basically normal sane people going through a rough patch with mild depression. It seems like some doctors want to prescribe these like aspirin, and until recently there seems to have been no attention to psychological side effects.
I've seen mild depression for good reason developed into full blown manic-depressive with no previous signs, with pot(potentially the major contributer to pushing the mind over the edge) and alcohol in the mix. There are way to many variables not accounted for, for me to believe they cause an issue. I'm not saying they dont, but I don't think we can say that without a deep scientific study, which would be difficult. A lot of past mass killers weren't on meds.
Amp Mangum
06-24-15, 15:34
This is helpful:
CHARLESTON, South Carolina — In an angry call to arms just a block away from the site of the Charleston massacre, former New Black Panther Party chairman Malik Zulu Shabazz told a group of about 200 African American Charlestonians that they need to “finish the mission” of killing “slave masters” and their families.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/24/black-panther-chairman-complete-charlestons-slave-rebellions-plan-to-kill-all-the-slave-masters/
saw that would like to say to him good ! then start with the first legal slave owner A BLACK GUY you racist POS
also go back to history and remember whites were slaves to mostly European Scottish and Irish etc... and WOW blacks OWNED white folks to in history
OH YOU mean to the slave owners in Africa maybe ? so go back to Africa and kill all the blacks since they started it ?
OH you mean to Brazil then ? OH wait you must mean Spain and its conquests of Central America and what they did so run down south and kill all the Spanish Central American folks but leave the true natives the Mayans ?
OR how about you learn history Malik
This is helpful:
CHARLESTON, South Carolina — In an angry call to arms just a block away from the site of the Charleston massacre, former New Black Panther Party chairman Malik Zulu Shabazz told a group of about 200 African American Charlestonians that they need to “finish the mission” of killing “slave masters” and their families.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/24/black-panther-chairman-complete-charlestons-slave-rebellions-plan-to-kill-all-the-slave-masters/
The whole conspiracy thing I never get. It's like the Kennedy thing- a conspiracy so big that remains silent. I'm not naive enough to think that there aren't hidden govt or NGO activities, but heck the State Dept Benghazi thing is out in the open and no one cares. When we get into speculative theories I think it makes it distracts from the main issue that a crazy went and killed these people.
Focus on the real issue of mental health and stop the crazy idea that the lack of universal background checks or the confederate flag are the cause of this.
Manchild and Tumor are supposedly coming back for UBC, but that fell of the headline on Drudge and I don't see it on CNN. Speaking of which, go to CNNs mainpage now. There is not a single item on the front page 'above the fold' that is truly relevant. My car was in the shop yesterday and CNN was on an it was a full hour about nothing but Confederate flags and the two escaped prisoners- and how they'll face wolves, bears and mostly mosquitos and flies- oh my! I am glad to hear that the female employee that helped them escape told her husband that she didn't have sex with the two inmates- or at least that is what she told him ;)
We don't need conspiracies to keep things underwraps, all we need is a good Kimye story.
What are the current issues that Progressives are pushing? Trans-sexual rights, banning the Confederate flag, cakes for gay people, police beating up on thugs, income inequality while we import poor people and climate change based on more fudged numbers.
Crazy.
(re: In reference to your response to my post concerning possible manipulation of shooter's photo of jacket with Rhodesian flag...)
Maybe I misunderstood your post. Maybe you misunderstood mine. Perhaps you were responding to someone else. Just curious in regards to the following.
I get your comments about distractions and such from the real issue of mental health. I agree. But I think it is important to also understand, and acknowledge if true, that some parts of the "story" are lies to to manipulate and take advantage of the tragedy.
Now, if you think it is some sort of "crazy idea" (remember a "conspiracy" is simply two or more people collaborating on an issue) that I posted about someone manipulating a photo to "frame/manipulate" a story - I think there are some questions to consider...
So folks and MSM won't distort or outright lie to manipulate some tragedy to "frame a movement"?
For example... Saying someone wouldn't photoshop dipsxxt shooter as a Rhodesian "racist" is like saying NBC wouldn't manipulate 911 audio of George Zimmerman? And ABC wouldn't degrade video of GZ's head injuries as he's being checked into jail? Like the lie of "gentle giant Mike" in Ferguson?
Just examples of people out to manipulate the story to achieve a goal at any cost. You know that whole "Machiavelli" thing.
Not conspiracy, just good old fashioned liars and "yellow journalism" to achieve a means.
Business_Casual
06-25-15, 06:05
Ppq
(re: In reference to your response to my post concerning possible manipulation of shooter's photo of jacket with Rhodesian flag...)
Maybe I misunderstood your post. Maybe you misunderstood mine. Perhaps you were responding to someone else. Just curious in regards to the following.
I get your comments about distractions and such from the real issue of mental health. I agree. But I think it is important to also understand, and acknowledge if true, that some parts of the "story" are lies to to manipulate and take advantage of the tragedy.
Now, if you think it is some sort of "crazy idea" (remember a "conspiracy" is simply two or more people collaborating on an issue) that I posted about someone manipulating a photo to "frame/manipulate" a story - I think there are some questions to consider...
So folks and MSM won't distort or outright lie to manipulate some tragedy to "frame a movement"?
For example... Saying someone wouldn't photoshop dipsxxt shooter as a Rhodesian "racist" is like saying NBC wouldn't manipulate 911 audio of George Zimmerman? And ABC wouldn't degrade video of GZ's head injuries as he's being checked into jail? Like the lie of "gentle giant Mike" in Ferguson?
Just examples of people out to manipulate the story to achieve a goal at any cost. You know that whole "Machiavelli" thing.
Not conspiracy, just good old fashioned liars and "yellow journalism" to achieve a means.
Excellent points and all recently exposed manipulations. Here's another thought: how many "journalists" have moved in and out of the Obama administration or are married to members of either group? The media is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Executive branch.
Ppq
Excellent points and all recently exposed manipulations. Here's another thought: how many "journalists" have moved in and out of the Obama administration or are married to members of either group? The media is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Executive branch.
Great point as well. Apparently more than 30 according to this article...
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/03/29/revolving-door-more-than-two-dozen-journalists-have-joined-the-obama-administration-but-is-it-really-anything-new/
Some 30 journalists have left their profession to go work in the Obama administration or on one of his presidential campaigns, according to the most recent tally by the Media Research Center, a conservative media watchdog group. One of the most visible jumps was by Jay Carney, a former Time reporter who went to work as Biden’s communications director — Murray’s old post — before ending up as White House press secretary.
SilverBullet432
06-26-15, 05:27
Great. Even though it wasn't involved, the AR has now been dragged into this.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/26/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html
Moose-Knuckle
06-26-15, 05:41
Great. Even though it wasn't involved, the AR has now been dragged into this.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/26/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html
As Charleston gradually lays to rest nine shooting victims from last week's church massacre, a police report reveals self-confessed shooter Dylann Roof had wanted a much deadlier weapon.
"We ought to be thankful he never got his hands on an AR-15."
Yes, thank all that is holy he didn't have a "deadlier weapon" than he already had that he used to murder nine people with! :jester:
The second officer asked Roof if he could search the car. Roof complied. That's when the 40-round magazines turned up.
Roof also had a forearm for an AR-15 in his trunk. It allows a shooter to more easily keep a grip on the rifle, as the barrel grows fiery hot from the shots pouring out of it.
No, not a forearm!!! That's worse than the shoulder thing that goes up!!! :lol: . . . :suicide:
Well s**t the bed, at least CNN called them "crescent shaped magazines" and not the infamous "banana clips"!
Yes, thank all that is holy he didn't have a "deadlier weapon" than he already had that he used to murder nine people with! :jester:
No, not a forearm!!! That's worse than the shoulder thing that goes up!!! :lol: . . . :suicide:
Well s**t the bed, at least CNN called them "crescent shaped magazines" and not the infamous "banana clips"!
Yeah but on the up side, these guys have created a delicious sounding dessert! Roasted banana clips browned over a fiery hot barrel....mmmmm. Which evil weapon accesory might I get my singed hands on that can shoot chocolate rounds all over my toasty bananas?
Now I'm hungry, and kind of aroused.
Phillygunguy
06-26-15, 06:42
Of course he wanted an AR otherwise how else could they have a renewed reason for an AWB
Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-04-15, 15:32
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_28569467/boulder-police-armed-witness-rescued-woman-from-attempted?source=mostpopular
When people are allowed to protect themselves and help out others.
Pelle said he has no problem with responsible citizens armed in churches, and he noted: "Unless you have a screening procedure in the church, there's no way to prohibit someone with malintent from bringing a gun in, anyway."
Odd that the guy had already been arrested for domestic violence. /SARCASM.
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