View Full Version : Battle tested M16A1 Elisco 653
This Carbine was used in the counter insurgency operations in the Southern Islands of the Philippines , I now have the fortunate opportunity to purchase this particular rifle. Can anyone give me pointers to look out for in terms of maintenance ? It has a 16inch Barrel with a 1:12 rifling twist & will come with 9 20rd & 3 30rd magazines along with 1000 rounds of M193 .
ClassIIIGunsmith
06-19-15, 09:55
Upper has different color to lower. Can't be bought in the US unless it is already here. Forward assist is wrong it needs to be a teardrop. Barrel should be a 14.5" because military didn't use a 16". But it should have a RH 1:12 twist. What are the first 2 digits on the lower. I see it being worth about $30-$35 (thousand)as is, only if the lower is a F/A. What trigger is in it and what buffer? Also can't clearly see the flash hider model. Also the only maintenance you might need is gas rings, barrel if the rifling is shot out, and possibly a auto sear(unlikely).
Renegade04
06-19-15, 11:03
Upper and lower colors not matching was not uncommon during the late 1970s and early 1980s Seeing how this was made in the Philippines under the licensing by Colt, it would not be surprising to see some variation from Colt versions. The barrel does appear to be a 14.5" and not a 16". The forward assist is not a real issue. The round forward assist may be what they had readily available. The FH does appear to be an A1. The barrels are most likely made by Colt while the receivers are made in the Philippines. After WWII, Colt set up manufacturers over there with equipment so that they could make their own weapons without Colt having to ship any over there. They began producing 1911s and eventually M16 rifles and carbines. These M16s were all select-fire weapons as they did not have the restrictions we have in the United States for public ownership, but they were costly to own. As was said, if it is in this country and is accompanied with the proper paperwork, there is no reason not to buy it. They are very easy to maintain.
ClassIIIGunsmith
06-19-15, 12:45
Its discoloration should not be that far off from the lowers color. The upper has early 60's color while the lower has early 80's color. My 76 SP1 has the same color between the upper and lower.3380833808
Thanks for the information guys, the carbine is licensed in the Philippines but the serial no. was erased & replaced with a Personal no..
The barrel was replaced with a 16inch because of cycling issues , I've tested it in full auto & fired 100 rounds without
any problems occurring .
Thanks Renegade04 for your insightful reply, it reflected the same history that the owner narrated.
I now feel reassured that I'm buying a good carbine. I own three Sig Sauer
Pistols(P226,SP2022,P250) & this is the first Rifle I'm buying.
militarymoron
06-19-15, 16:53
Beagle - what country are you located in?
Beagle - what country are you located in?
I'm a dual citizen, all my pistols are licensed ,bought & are in the Philippines. I'm a member of Armscor (Phil)gun club. You have to go thru a rigorous process to get a license to own firearms in the Philippines & have to wait 30- 45 days to get it . It is illegal to have possession of any unlicensed firearms & you face a long jail term if you are arrested for illegal possession .
I got started when my cousin who is a retired Army Col.(Phil)Invited me to join him to watch a Shooting competition in his Gun Club.
militarymoron
06-20-15, 22:31
okay - i see. i thought it was a very unusual purchase for a first rifle if you were in the U.S., because it's select-fire.
Its discoloration should not be that far off from the lowers color. The upper has early 60's color while the lower has early 80's color. My 76 SP1 has the same color between the upper and lower.3380833808
My cousin(Retired Col.) says he was issued an M16 carbine in 1979 with exactly the same set-up, 16 inch Barrel
With 1:12 twist, manganese finished upper , dark colored lower. He said this was a special issue as the normal barrel was normally 14.5 inches. My cousin says that the carbine I am buying is in very good
Condition & has been well maintained. On full automatic mode it has performed without any hitch. I'll try to
Post a picture of the flash hider later
It has the correct forward assist, the Elisco Tool manufactured large round type with the domed head. Everything about that 653P is as issued, I've seen 16" barrels used as well as 14.5" on the Philippine production.
ClassIIIGunsmith
06-23-15, 11:45
It has the correct forward assist, the Elisco Tool manufactured large round type with the domed head. Everything about that 653P is as issued, I've seen 16" barrels used as well as 14.5" on the Philippine production.
never knew that about Elisco Tool. learn something new everyday!
I am now the proud new owner of this carbine, now for the hard part . The transfer of the license apparently have some restriction, it is not as straight forward as I thought. I'll keep you guys posted as I go along in the process. To answer some of the earlier questions of Class111Gunsmith , the fire control has Full Auto & the Flash hider is an A1 Birdcage. 3386333864
I am now the proud new owner of this carbine, now for the hard part . The transfer of the license apparently have some restriction, it is not as straight forward as I thought. I'll keep you guys posted as I go along in the process. To answer some of the earlier questions of Class111Gunsmith , the fire control has Full Auto & the Flash hider is an A1 Birdcage. 3386333864
Congratulations! If you don't mind me asking, what is something like that worth in the Philippines?
Congratulations! If you don't mind me asking, what is something like that worth in the Philippines?
Thanks SKP, this purchase was just by chance, so it wouldn't reflect market price . My cousin & I were at his gun club when a Batchmate of his in the Army mentioned to my cousin that he needed to sell his carbine. Because he needed a quick sale I got it for $2000 . It includes also the original army sling, bayonet & complete cleaning kit,12 Mags & 1000 rounds of ammo. Guns here cost 100 percent more than the U.S. . A brand new plain Sig P226 would cost $1,900 , they have suspended the sale of AR's & AK's or same class of rifles due to some anomalies with quite a few licensed rifles ending up in the hands of insurgents in the southern islands.
militarymoron
06-26-15, 21:36
...due to some anomalies with quite a few licensed rifles ending up in the hands of insurgents in the southern islands.
But...but...that can't happen. they're licensed.
:p
They used bogus individuals , some of the identities from dead people . A lot of individuals
are now being prosecuted for the scam.
Thanks for the information guys, the carbine is licensed in the Philippines but the serial no. was erased & replaced with a Personal no..
The barrel was replaced with a 16inch because of cycling issues , I've tested it in full auto & fired 100 rounds without
any problems occurring .
Thanks Renegade04 for your insightful reply, it reflected the same history that the owner narrated.
I now feel reassured that I'm buying a good carbine. I own three Sig Sauer
Pistols(P226,SP2022,P250) & this is the first Rifle I'm buying.
That carbine has a 14.5" barrel in the pictures.
Everything on that gun appears to be matching.
Thanks SKP, this purchase was just by chance, so it wouldn't reflect market price . My cousin & I were at his gun club when a Batchmate of his in the Army mentioned to my cousin that he needed to sell his carbine. Because he needed a quick sale I got it for $2000 . It includes also the original army sling, bayonet & complete cleaning kit,12 Mags & 1000 rounds of ammo. Guns here cost 100 percent more than the U.S. . A brand new plain Sig P226 would cost $1,900 , they have suspended the sale of AR's & AK's or same class of rifles due to some anomalies with quite a few licensed rifles ending up in the hands of insurgents in the southern islands.
Thanks for sharing. That's one hell of a package deal you got there. I guess not ALL guns cost 100% there than in the US :)
That carbine has a 14.5" barrel in the pictures.
Everything on that gun appears to be matching.
I'm only relying on what the Original owner is saying, he said he sent it back to the armory to have it checked due to some cycling problems & the information passed on was that they change the barrel . Without disassembling the gun ,how do You measure the barrel. I'm a new enthusiast (rookie) to owning rifles so bear with me.
Thanks for sharing. That's one hell of a package deal you got there. I guess not ALL guns cost 100% there than in the US :)
As I said it was only my good luck being at the right place at the right time. The second hand market is very limited but
brand new one's are definitely double than what it is in the U.S. A friend of mine bought a Mosberg-Maverick 12gauge
24 inch barreled Shotgun for $425. He was also looking at CZ Vz 858 (7.62) at $ 1,300. But as I said in an earlier post ,sale of rifles in this category has been suspended.
Renegade04
06-28-15, 17:37
I'm only relying on what the Original owner is saying, he said he sent it back to the armory to have it checked due to some cycling problems & the information passed on was that they change the barrel . Without disassembling the gun ,how do You measure the barrel. I'm a new enthusiast (rookie) to owning rifles so bear with me.
With the bolt in battery, you can take a wooden dowel or some other type of rod and insert it into the muzzle end of the barrel. Mark it at the end of the A1 flash hider and subtract about 1 1/8". That should give you a really close idea as to what the barrel length is. Someone else may have a more scientific method.
militarymoron
06-28-15, 20:15
Guns here cost 100 percent more than the U.S.
Not full auto weapons, from the looks of it. Take any weapon here in the U.S. that has a select-fire version. The select fire version can cost 10 times the cost of the semi-auto version, more or less. A civilian transferable rifle like yours can cost $20,000.
Not full auto weapons, from the looks of it. Take any weapon here in the U.S. that has a select-fire version. The select fire version can cost 10 times the cost of the semi-auto version, more or less. A civilian transferable rifle like yours can cost $20,000.
It is amazing how much collectors would pay for Vintage AR's , I wonder how much the license or permits would cost to ship vintage AR's to the U.S. My cousin & his wife are both Retired Military Officers , he has an early 80"s M16a1 Elisco Carbine as well & his wife has an M2 Carbine .30 with full Auto ( all in original condition). It would be interesting to find out how many of his fellow retired officers have vintage AR's & M2 Carbines . I'll try to find out how many of his Gun Club Members
(Retired Officers Only) have vintage carbines, I'll keep you guys posted.
With the bolt in battery, you can take a wooden dowel or some other type of rod and insert it into the muzzle end of the barrel. Mark it at the end of the A1 flash hider and subtract about 1 1/8". That should give you a really close idea as to what the barrel length is. Someone else may have a more scientific method.
You are spot on, the barrel is 14.5 after subtracting 1 1/8 .
35085
Got lucky today , my friend was cleaning his attic & this is what he found . Since he had disposed of his M16, he gave me all these for free . Over all I will now have 20 20rd mags & 3 30rd mags.
Renegade04
09-17-15, 12:40
35085
Got lucky today , my friend was cleaning his attic & this is what he found . Since he had disposed of his M16, he gave me all these for free . Over all I will now have 20 20rd mags & 3 30rd mags.
That is outstanding. Getting those 20-rd. magazines for free was a great thing. I need to get a few more myself since building my last three retros. Just not wanting to get raked over by what some guys are asking for them these days.
That is outstanding. Getting those 20-rd. magazines for free was a great thing. I need to get a few more myself since building my last three retros. Just not wanting to get raked over by what some guys are asking for them these days.
How much are they asking for?
That is outstanding. Getting those 20-rd. magazines for free was a great thing. I need to get a few more myself since building my last three retros. Just not wanting to get raked over by what some guys are asking for them these days.
What is the best way to get rid of the moulds in the Mags?
35093 found this in one of the pouches
Renegade04
09-18-15, 07:24
How much are they asking for?
$25-$30 each.
Renegade04
09-18-15, 07:28
What is the best way to get rid of the moulds in the Mags?
Is it mold or tarnish? If it is mold, take the magazine down by removing the baseplate and then the spring and follower. Be careful when you remove the baseplate as the spring will release its tension. Then take a toothbrush and some mild detergent and scrub the magazine. Make sure you thoroughly dry the magazine components. Apply a thin film of lube to the spring and the inside of the magazine. This step is not entirely necessary, but it is a good preventative to make sure the magazines functions smoothly.
Thanks Renegade04, it's quite humid here hence oiling the inside of the Mags would be essential .
$25-$30 each.
If it were easy to mail the mags , I wouldn't mind sending a couple your way. I don't need 20 mags, but they are very strict
With gun components here.
Renegade04
09-18-15, 11:06
If it were easy to mail the mags , I wouldn't mind sending a couple your way. I don't need 20 mags, but they are very strict
With gun components here.
It would be sweet to have a few of them, but I understand the difficulty shipping stuff like that from over there.
ClassIIIGunsmith
09-20-15, 22:08
35093 found this in one of the pouches
Is that really a Fabian DTA? That would be the first time I have seen one in 30 years. I never really thought that it would have worked but in full auto it works well. By the time I went to buy one they were out of business and I have never seen one again.
Is that really a Fabian DTA? That would be the first time I have seen one in 30 years. I never really thought that it would have worked but in full auto it works well. By the time I went to buy one they were out of business and I have never seen one again.
Yes it is, my friend said he never used it. I don't intend to put it on , it will be a conversational piece . You're welcome to it if u can find a way to ship it to the USA .He also found 200 rounds of M193 cartridges, with the humidity here do you think it would still be safe to use them as range ammo?
ClassIIIGunsmith
09-21-15, 09:06
Yeah if it has a good lacker on the primer. I'm in Georgia and we have high humidity here in the summer. I leave some of my ammunition outside in my Uninsulated, unheated/ cooled barn and I shoot 25 year old military ammo that I have left out there. No problems unless you get water in the powder and then it won't go off. I will try and help you with finding a way for you to ship stuff to the US
Yeah if it has a good lacker on the primer. I'm in Georgia and we have high humidity here in the summer. I leave some of my ammunition outside in my Uninsulated, unheated/ cooled barn and I shoot 25 year old military ammo that I have left out there. No problems unless you get water in the powder and then it won't go off. I will try and help you with finding a way for you to ship stuff to the US
Looking forward to hearing what you can dig up with requirements for shipping things back to USA.
Have you ever seen the movie 'Platoon'? Those are all Eliseo guns, and if you freeze frame, you can see the markings on Barnes' rifle at least once. The historical inaccuracy is that the two sergeants' rifles have 14.5" instead of 11.5" barrels.
Renegade04
09-21-15, 13:10
Looking forward to hearing what you can dig up with requirements for shipping things back to USA.
I would be interested to know as well. I would surely love to have a couple of those 20-rounders.
militarymoron
09-21-15, 13:47
Is that really a Fabian DTA? That would be the first time I have seen one in 30 years. I never really thought that it would have worked but in full auto it works well. By the time I went to buy one they were out of business and I have never seen one again.
We're showing our age. I have one of those that i bought back in '85 or '86.
Have you ever seen the movie 'Platoon'? Those are all Eliseo guns, and if you freeze frame, you can see the markings on Barnes' rifle at least once. The historical inaccuracy is that the two sergeants' rifles have 14.5" instead of 11.5" barrels.
Ill try and watch it again( seen it about 3x) never paid particular notice to the model of the guns used in the film. All
I knew was that they were M16s
Mabuhay!
Your Elisco "Baby Armalite" is a "Best of Breed" carbine. They're excellent investments and should provide you decades of fun.
Well-used guns like this can be overhauled to run darn near forever -- but they do take maintenance from guys who know what they're doing.
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/sievert_i/DSCF0722.jpg
Mabuhay!
Your Elisco "Baby Armalite" is a "Best of Breed" carbine. They're excellent investments and should provide you decades of fun.
Well-used guns like this can be overhauled to run darn near forever -- but they do take maintenance from guys who know what they're doing.
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/sievert_i/DSCF0722.jpg
MABUHAY SINISTER that is quite a Moniker ( best in breed) , my cousin who was a full Col. when he retired says his elisco 653p never failed him in the skirmishes he was in. He was posted in some of the most dangerous places( Jolo,Tawi-Tawi, Basilan Maguindanao) in the Southern islands as a battalion Commander. The former Owner was also a COL. claims that this elisco 653p that I acquired has no more than 1,500 rounds thru it & my cousin says that it looks like it has been well maintained. I'll try to take high resolution pictures while its dismantled.
My apologies for taking so long to reply , I was told a definite NO by the Firearms & Explosives Office, sorry fellows. It's a pity cause they would have been put to good use there.
I would be interested to know as well. I would surely love to have a couple of those 20-rounders.
My earlier post was suppose to quote this.
Renegade04
10-27-15, 07:41
My earlier post was suppose to quote this.
That is a shame. Oh well. You tried.
I am now the proud new owner of this carbine, now for the hard part . The transfer of the license apparently have some restriction, it is not as straight forward as I thought. I'll keep you guys posted as I go along in the process. To answer some of the earlier questions of Class111Gunsmith , the fire control has Full Auto & the Flash hider is an A1 Birdcage. 3386333864
Well after nearly 3 years of waiting,prodding,lobbying & campaigning the National Police Department finally set out the procedures & conditions to convert & transfer an assault rifle(full auto) to a Semi-auto Civilian authorised version. Only Retired Military & Law Enforcement personnels are permitted to have licensed Full Auto Rifles on the condition that they could only on sell the rifles to already licensed individuals. If they can not on the oft chance find a buyer, they have to surrender the firearm to the National Police. The full auto sears & selectors parts are surrendered & replaced with a semi auto only parts. At least now the licensed owners have an easier avenue to convert their prized possessions to cash. It’s a shame I can’t legally own it as a full Auto but it is better to own a semi auto legally.
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