View Full Version : Is this Army Dr Crazy or am I missing something here?
Averageman
06-21-15, 06:52
http://www.aol.com/article/2015/06/20/u-s-doctor-sanctioned-for-abhorrent-and-abnormal-troop-traini/21198876/?icid=maing-grid7%7Chtmlws-sb-bb%7Cdl27%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D-420265516
Reuters reported on Wednesday that military officials had long known about Hagmann's methods. A four-star general briefly halted them in 2005, but the doctor resumed his government contracts, earning at least $10.5 million since then.
Two male students testified on Friday about private rectal exams. One said that he gave Hagmann an exam that the doctor filmed. The other described regret that he allowed Hagmann to perform a rectal exam on him.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/17/us-usa-doctor-history-specialreport-idUSKBN0OX1SJ20150617
His inspection team returned from the visit and reported “a number of problems, including deviations from the Special Operations standard of combat trauma care,” according to a memo Brown sent to subordinates on Dec. 9, 2005. This included “potentially hazardous physiological demonstrations being conducted on volunteers from the course attendees,” the memo said.
The same month, Hagmann allegedly conducted a “cognition lab” – several course participants drank eight shots of 80-proof rum in 10 minutes, then an hour later were injected with the hypnotic pain killer ketamine. One intoxicated student received a penile nerve block procedure, the report said, while other trainees stepped in to stop a second student from receiving one.
I only know part of the story, but I vote for crazy.
Wow, just wow.
He is lucky that his license to practice is all that is on the line. I'm surprised that he is not sharing a cell with MJ's doctor.
I do not know this guy but I do have an understanding of trauma medical training and if you do not know anything about it some of the stuff they teach could be considered "weird" or "wrong".
To be completely honest it sounds like the administrations attempt to stop military medical training, again. We do things that people think are wrong because they do not understand. Plain and simple, the military has always been on the forefront of trauma medicine and the establishment does not like it. Especially because people without medical licenses can do stuff that only physicians can go in the civilian world.
I do not know this guy but I do have an understanding of trauma medical training and if you do not know anything about it some of the stuff they teach could be considered "weird" or "wrong".
To be completely honest it sounds like the administrations attempt to stop military medical training, again. We do things that people think are wrong because they do not understand. Plain and simple, the military has always been on the forefront of trauma medicine and the establishment does not like it. Especially because people without medical licenses can do stuff that only physicians can go in the civilian world.
Where do penile nerve blocks come into play in trauma training?
If the reporting is accurate, the guy's just a whacko, and probably a perverted one.
BoringGuy45
06-21-15, 11:00
Sounds like he was just a few steps from going Human Centipede.
Not trying to get into an argument as I know you are a physician, but I will say this. The same contex as an extended DRE. I will leave you to think of a reason for that. There is one and you must think outside the box. If hat does not then you have to go superpubic. And that can be difficult without an ultrasound.
Remember that this is not normal medicine that you can think of. Try sitting on a trauma patient for over 72 hours with what you have in your bag. You have to become creative in your application of procedures.
I do not know this guy but I do have an understanding of trauma medical training and if you do not know anything about it some of the stuff they teach could be considered "weird" or "wrong".
To be completely honest it sounds like the administrations attempt to stop military medical training, again. We do things that people think are wrong because they do not understand. Plain and simple, the military has always been on the forefront of trauma medicine and the establishment does not like it. Especially because people without medical licenses can do stuff that only physicians can go in the civilian world.
I'm not sure if you read all of the articles or the complaints before the Virginia Medical Board. There is nothing cutting edge or on the forefront with what he is alleged to have done. Both Hmac and I are more than qualified to make that determination in civilian and military settings.
No I didn't read all of the articles. I stopped after a few lines because it all started to sound familiar. Do you have a link to the Virginia medical board complaints?
Lime I said, I don't know this guy but it all sounds familiar.
Again, I said that I am not trying to get into a pissing contontest here. Just don't trust most of what I read in the news. I do know that I have been trained to do things medically that most would find to be unorthodox.
Here is the VA Medical Board's findings:
http://df7s0hkt8o8r9.cloudfront.net/media/english/pdf/sanctions/HGPYEEB6791ADB174AE4803122015.pdf
Let me take this opportunity to recommend the team at MCG/Georgia Regeants and Vighter Medical Group. Their STORM courses are not cheap but their personnel are legit and top notch. I'll personally vouch for them and promise that nobody at their shop will try to play with your dick or anus after slipping you some ketamine and versed.
Let me take this opportunity to recommend the team at MCG/Georgia Regeants and Vighter Medical Group. Their STORM courses are not cheap but their personnel are legit and top notch. I'll personally vouch for them and promise that nobody at their shop will try to play with your dick or anus after slipping you some ketamine and versed.
Haha. That's some good info too know :p
ramairthree
06-21-15, 23:00
It is my understanding he was a self proclaimed expert in military and SOF medicine. Yes he was an emergency medicine physician in the military. But he had no SOF background or significant combat experience and used his military position and assignment location to get in with the Park Police and FBI. His primary customer base shifted to LEO from military.
This position was also used to get him an author citation on the original TCCC paper in military medicine, though he strayed far, far from the mainstream.
In person he did not seem to be a total nutcase like that. But, he was shunned and ostracized by actual SOF medical experts based on his medical opinions alone. Within the LEO paramedic and SOF medic community he was either seen, again, based on medical alone, as some visionary that was misunderstood and ahead of his time and not fairly regarded by his peers by some, or as someone they would never waste money training with again.
This is the medical equivalent of hearing that the loud mouthed ditch dwelling shooting instructor/contracter/cop liked buggering Cory before sending someone down range to film him shooting.
It is not the equivalent of hearing that, say, LAV or Kyle Lamb liked getting drunk with the students during a course and then wanting to know who had ever seen a grown man naked or liked gladiator movies.
There are a ton of family practice, preventive medicine, etc. self proclaimed experts out there that will take your money billed as SOF, trauma, etc. gurus just like there are a ton of shooting instructors whose Bona fides do not stand up.
Never mind. This thing speaks for itself.
Still doesn't even come close to letting a radical Islamic extremist, Dr. Nadal Hassan, tend to the psychological well being of combat veterans returning from the Middle East.
He probably did quite a bit of damage before he ever fired his first shot at Ft. Hood.
Averageman
06-22-15, 06:23
Still doesn't even come close to letting a radical Islamic extremist, Dr. Nadal Hassan, tend to the psychological well being of combat veterans returning from the Middle East.
He probably did quite a bit of damage before he ever fired his first shot at Ft. Hood.
I remember that scumbag was carrying one and only one patient when he went BSC. It would seem his answer to everything was to convert to Islam. Not a real favorite way of treatment for most returning Vet's.
I'm not sure how these guys pass through the system without challenge until the issue becomes so big.
I've apparently been very lucky for the most part with Army Medicine.
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