View Full Version : Upgrading my first AR, need advice.
Hey guys! This is my first post here on M4carbine.net, I've read enough threads here in the past so I just figured I'd sign up! Anyways I bought a milspec AR from a small local shop called "Brother n arms" and have been pleased with it but I want to trick it out a bit. Currently I have a Vortex spitfire 3x, surefire x300 ultra, Blake Hole Weaponry 16" stainless steel 1/8 twist match grade barrel, magpie accessories, and I just ordered a Cryptic Coatings "Mystic Black" bcg. I have to save up a little but I'm looking into a Gisselle SD-E and eventually a suppressor. So here's the question... Is there a single "king of the hill" is you will? I have no company bias I just want to know who gets the lowest decibels. Any other upgrade advice is also welcome.
Here is a pic of my current setup (- the beautiful CC bcg) 33972
Thanks,
Cy
Your flash hider is upside down. Unsure who the best is, but I just picked up my first suppressor (AAC SDN-6) I like it so far.
I know, can't seem to screw it on with the slots facing up. There is probably some easy fix, I just don't know much haha.
Doesn't sound like there's much milspec there...
I'm not a fan of quad rails, and the current fashion is keymod or mlok handguards, typically significantly longer than carbine length (12" is pretty common on a 16" barrel, some people even go with 15" rails on a 16" barrel). Many options out there are slimmer and more comfortable, but that's a personal preference thing. They usually cover the lopro gas block, which makes it harder to burn yourself.
Depending on your use, the SD-3G is an amazing trigger. I love mine on my shoot fast gun. If you're shooting off a bench it's a little touchy.
A crush washer will let you time the flash hider.
Well when I bought it it was milspec, then added the stuff. At least that's what I was told. Thanks for the advice.
I know, can't seem to screw it on with the slots facing up. There is probably some easy fix, I just don't know much haha.
Have you ever heard of a crush washer?
ColtSeavers
07-03-15, 09:20
Have you ever heard of a crush washer?
Or a shim set or a 12mm spark plug compression washer?
Hey guys! This is my first post here on M4carbine.net, I've read enough threads here in the past so I just figured I'd sign up! Anyways I bought a milspec AR from a small local shop called "Brother n arms" and have been pleased with it but I want to trick it out a bit. Currently I have a Vortex spitfire 3x, surefire x300 ultra, Blake Hole Weaponry 16" stainless steel 1/8 twist match grade barrel, magpie accessories, and I just ordered a Cryptic Coatings "Mystic Black" bcg. I have to save up a little but I'm looking into a Gisselle SD-E and eventually a suppressor. So here's the question... Is there a single "king of the hill" is you will? I have no company bias I just want to know who gets the lowest decibels. Any other upgrade advice is also welcome.
Here is a pic of my current setup (- the beautiful CC bcg) 33972
Thanks,
Cy
What are the specs of you rifle that leads you to believe it's mil-spec? Tell us more about the specs, and perhaps we can offer suggestions as to upgrades.
Well it's a milspec trigger, had a milspec barrel till I replaced it, milspec bolt carrier (just ordered a new one), and they said the receiver was "milspec". I understand the term is often misused so maybe I was lead astray but it seems like a quality rifle. Also has a standard birdcage flash hider. And to previous responses yes I know what a crush washer is, I just didn't want to fix it improperly if there was a correct way to do it.
Well it's a milspec trigger, had a milspec barrel till I replaced it, milspec bolt carrier (just ordered a new one), and they said the receiver was "milspec". I understand the term is often misused so maybe I was lead astray but it seems like a quality rifle. Also has a standard birdcage flash hider. And to previous responses yes I know what a crush washer is, I just didn't want to fix it improperly if there was a correct way to do it.
A crush washer is the correct way to install the flash hider and time it correctly.
What brand was the original BCG and why did you decide to replace it? Why did you choose the Cryptic Coatings as a replacement?
Inkslinger
07-03-15, 10:25
I would start with back-up sights, sling, and a correctly installed muzzle device.
It was a brothers n arms bolt carrier. They do all the manufacturing of their weapons in house. I was intrigued by Cryptic Coatings extremely low maintenance and low friction coefficient (.01) people do some pretty wild torture tests on them like no lube 2,000 round tests in a single day and they look brand new after you wipe them off with a cloth. Plus it's 100% made in America with a lifetime warranty and looks bad ass.33976
turnburglar
07-03-15, 11:25
Throw whatever you want on a hobby gun, but to be honest with you "there's not much point in most 'upgrades'.
As for your suppressor question: military arms channel just did a few great comparison videos.
My suggestion?
Sell it, use some of that suppressor money to buy a BCM, Colt, or SIONICS of your liking, and go from there.
I don't say this to put you or your rifle down at all, but it's clear that there's some inexperience in the assembly process. So I'd look at a rifle that you know will be built well from the factory. Or even keep your rifle and take a build class, plenty of gun stores/ranges have AR build classes that would be good to show you the proper way to install/time a muzzle device, what to look for in parts, etc.
But as far as general changes to make... I'd ditch the handguard for something lighter and longer (MI Gen 2 SS/SSK/SSM, BCM KMR, ALG Defense EMR, etc.), since you already have a low profile gas block. I'd also check that the barrel is dimpled for the set screws, and that the set screws are loctited in place. I would add back up irons as well, and of course the usual once-over checking castle nut staking, gas key staking, and find the heaviest buffer it'll function with. Being a carbine, you should be able to use at least an H2, which'll make a big difference if you're currently using a Carbine buffer. Just run your lowest-powered loads to check function. A trigger is a great upgrade, but I might would hold off and give some attention to getting the rest of the gun squared away.
Thanks for the input. I have thought about selling but as far as rifle quality goes I think they're up to snuff. They provide weapons to local law enforcement. Maybe I'm being naive but that is comforting to me knowing the rifles have been approved by someone who know a hell of a lot more than me. Thanks again and I'll look into those build classes!
Inkslinger
07-03-15, 12:47
Thanks for the input. I have thought about selling but as far as rifle quality goes I think they're up to snuff. They provide weapons to local law enforcement. Maybe I'm being naive but that is comforting to me knowing the rifles have been approved by someone who know a hell of a lot more than me. Thanks again and I'll look into those build classes!
This says nothing about the quality of the weapon. It's about budget. I work for a municipality, PD gets Bushmasters.
Thanks for the input. I have thought about selling but as far as rifle quality goes I think they're up to snuff. They provide weapons to local law enforcement. Maybe I'm being naive but that is comforting to me knowing the rifles have been approved by someone who know a hell of a lot more than me. Thanks again and I'll look into those build classes!
Just because some PD has them doesn't make them quality rifles. Just means that a bean counter found them to be the cheapest(most likely reason that they got them), not because they were the best or even good. Contrary to popular belief cops are not weapons experts. Lots of departments have issued Bushmaster, DPMS, and other commercial brands. Doesn't mean that they are milspec, or even in spec.
My suggestion would be to do more shooting with the rifle you have, and a lot more reading about the AR platform and go from there.
Outlander Systems
07-03-15, 12:59
Sell it.
Buy a carbine using KNOWN and PROVEN components.
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll one in glitter.
Skip all "upgrades."
Is this "local shop" located in Ellensberg, WA. ?
Yes, and I don't know why everyone is assuming it's a turd. It's a $1000 dollar rifle from a local shop. Made one at a time with a lifetime warranty. What's wrong with that? The only reason I'm upgrading it is cause I have the money and why not?
Yes, and I don't know why everyone is assuming it's a turd. It's a $1000 dollar rifle from a local shop. Made one at a time with a lifetime warranty. What's wrong with that? The only reason I'm upgrading it is cause I have the money and why not?
None of that means it's a quality gun. If they can't install a fh correctly (assuming they did it) I wouldn't trust much else. We know some brands that are quality. I suggest shooting it keeping it as a plink if you like and buying a serious use gun down the road if you have problems with this.
Outlander Systems
07-03-15, 15:07
Yes, and I don't know why everyone is assuming it's a turd. It's a $1000 dollar rifle from a local shop. Made one at a time with a lifetime warranty. What's wrong with that? The only reason I'm upgrading it is cause I have the money and why not?
Cost is not necessarily an indicator of quality on these things.
I had a $1400 Bushmaster I bought in 2005 that was a total joke.
I'm not trying to whizz in your Cheerios, but I'd bet my paycheck that the rifle was assembled in the shop, not manufactured.
I would get a bare-bones BCM or Colt before throwing money at that carbine.
ETA:
The important question regarding your carbine is what purpose you have it for. If it's a range plinker, soldier on.
What's the intended purpose of this carbine?
Just a plunked and SHTF gun. I put on the FH wrong not them. Here's a link to there site, you can research it a little if you want. http://www.eburgguns.com/
bloodlord77
07-03-15, 15:21
Yes, and I don't know why everyone is assuming it's a turd. It's a $1000 dollar rifle from a local shop. Made one at a time with a lifetime warranty. What's wrong with that? The only reason I'm upgrading it is cause I have the money and why not?
6920 MP rifles can be purchased for 975.00 or even lower. If you intend on using your AR for a range/fun gun, then I'm sure it's fine. IMO, if you want it for sd/sd/shtf, then piece of mind is priceless. I have a 1000.00 bushmaster that went kaput in 1600 rds. Now I have spent 170.00 for a BCM bcg. Imagine what I could have bought for the money I've sunk in this turd. Luckily it's not my only AR, but I've still learned a valuable lesson. Your gun may run great, and last you a lifetime, but then again, it may not. That's the dice you have to roll.
I hear ya on that. But I like this gun and I like the people I bought it from so I intend to keep it. Not sure who told me to upgrade the rail but I just ordered a SLR 10" keymod in burnt bronze. So as of right now the rifle I own is much different than the one I bought ��. As it stand the only think left that is Brothers n arms is the receiver, nuts & bolts, and trigger.
Eurodriver
07-03-15, 15:36
Griz,
How many rounds have you fired through this weapon?
How many were from positions such as sitting, kneeling, prone, etc? (i.e. not from a bench)
donlapalma
07-03-15, 15:41
OP, how long ago did you buy this rifle and how many rounds have you shot through it? I totally get the excitement of a new rifle and wanting to personalize your weapon. However, there are many on this forum who have learned the hard and expensive way. I assume that is why you've come here seeking advice. Nobody is trying to crap on your choices, in fact, we are just trying to save you some headache and money. Since you've stated that you intend to keep the rifle for now the best thing to do right now is to shoot that thing A LOT. During that time, your "wants" and "needs" will clearly delineate.
jackblack73
07-03-15, 15:48
Since you already ordered a new rail, I recommend you change it and order a longer rail. Or better yet, just cancel it. Then do nothing for a while but read and shoot your new rifle. You clearly have a lot to learn and should do so before spending more money.
Ok sounds good. Yeah I am moving pretty quick, I'll slow down and put some more rounds through her. And I've only shot around 1,000. All away from bench other than sighting in my Spitfire.
Well when I bought it it was milspec, then added the stuff. At least that's what I was told. Thanks for the advice.
You bought parts with the letters 'mil-spec' somewhere in the product description. Not a bad thing, but there is more to actually meeting a specific stated MIL-STD document. That said, there are lots of things that aren't in the Mil-Std that are definite improvements, so that isn't the end-all of civilian carbines.
What parts are on that rifle? This will dictate what really makes sense to set as priorities budgeting. I have no idea who makes that BCG, and how valid any claims they make are about the materials, processes, and coating applied to it. Same deal with other LPK parts, buffer spring, buffer, etc.
Crush washer will work great for that setup, before you get too far start reading about proper procedures for that before going forward. If you eventually get a can, you'll have to un-do this, but having a properly timed muzzle device should be a requisite part of assembling the upper that was somehow missed.
A 'lifetime warranty' on hobby grade guns are surprisingly affordable to a manufacturer to provide - as most see at most a couple magazines worth of ammunition per year, and is mechanically like offering a 5 year 5,000 mile warranty on a modern car... so Eurodriver is absolutely asking the right question about round count.
For now - go shoot the poop out of the thing. Some of the grit will wear off the trigger, and the nut behind the buttstock will get a lot more proficient too. You'll figure out if mechanically everything is in working order, or if you need to spend money getting the MTBF higher in order to own something actually reliable.
If it turns out to be reliable, then spend money on a sling, some more magazines, some training, spend some more time reading, and then eventually look at a longer handguard and some more accurate ammunition followed by maybe a trigger.
If reliability isn't 100%, either figure out if it can be addressed piecewise, or if you're money ahead selling the whole deal and starting over with a Colt, DD, BCM, LMT, Sionics, Noveske, or KAC complete weapon where there aren't any mechanical issues, and less things would need upgrading.
griz59, Tell us the truth... How old are you? What other weapons do you own? Just trying to figure out where you are coming from and what direction to steer you in.
Outlander Systems
07-03-15, 18:53
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?56063-Be-an-informed-consumer!
Lots of wisdom there.
If you took a rifle with a lifetime warranty and then swapped barrel and BCG I doubt said warranty means much. If you do an engine/tranny swap on a car that's under warranty, do you think the new ones will be covered?
SocomShooter
07-04-15, 11:00
Looking at that rifle, the first thing I'd do--as stated above--is correct the problem with that flash hider. Either re-install it correctly, or have them do it themselves. Second, and again as previously stated, is consider a longer free-float rail. It's just more comfortable for me to move my off-hand forward (more) for better control. Any weight difference in the longer rail should be negligible, and worth the benefits. If you like it, keep it--but research your upgrades for a long time and don't rush them.
I would expect a quality (meaning not from China) free float rail of some sort - keymod, m-lok, or proprietary - to be marginally lighter than your current quad rail. Looking at the Midwest Industries lightweight Keymod or M-Lok handguards, which I consider toward the bottom of pricing that I'd consider, the 12" is lighter than their 7" quad rails. Also much more comfortable. The ounce or two difference isn't too important, just pointing out that it won't make it heavier.
A longer handguard also lets you mount the front sight farther out, leading to a longer sight radius which helps with accuracy when shooting iron sights.
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