View Full Version : Fireworks and PTSD.
Having a number of friends who are current and ex Military, I am aware of how bad PTSD can be, even if only from an outside perspective. I personally have seen friends have some bad episodes from simple fireworks going off, or other relatively benign seeming triggers.
So imagine my shock when I saw the following posted from a friend of mine who has served.
In regards to this photo
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CG7POewCWCA/VZaxCFHBBQI/AAAAAAAAc7A/FOsi9hQLzkY/s960/jondykesmilitarywithptsd.jpg
He posted this:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QJLpSIrW3xU/VZau54I8ZCI/AAAAAAAAc60/pUFsvopqhKU/s1024/IMG_0916.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HdLY2PX2fdo/VZau6iKQAtI/AAAAAAAAc64/hzjORhj6X9Q/s1024/IMG_0917.jpg
Some of my friends and I were discussing it. And would like a broader range of opinions. How do you feel about this? Personally it never even occurred to me that some peoples reaction would be to tell them to "Man Up" But then again what do I know..
SilverBullet432
07-03-15, 11:08
Those signs were featured on the news here last week. Not sure how they are going as i dont use FB. You shouldn't either, you'll be happier and live longer.. I personally think they are good. Here it's illegal to pop fireworks inside city limits anyway, but people still do it. The sign is there for folks to see and sadly many folks have never seen the face of PTSD.
Averageman
07-03-15, 11:33
I cannot imagine putting that sign in my yard let alone advertising that to the whole neighborhood or limiting some kids right to blow his hand off in the name of fun and the fourth of July.
KalashniKEV
07-03-15, 11:37
If homeboy is that close to snapping over the 4th of July, I hope he keeps his sign up all year round, or some variation.
...and obviously he should not have access to firearms, since who knows what real, actual gunfire might trigger.
Averageman
07-03-15, 11:40
If homeboy is that close to snapping over the 4th of July, I hope he keeps his sign up all year round, or some variation.
...and obviously he should not have access to firearms, since who knows what real, actual gunfire might trigger.
I'm pretty sure that someday they will get around to taking that away.
Eurodriver
07-03-15, 11:46
What a joke.
Failure2Stop
07-03-15, 11:59
Combat Vet here.
Please be courteous with your gunfire: use a suppressor.
From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff
Lived one door down to a guy who was a combat Corpsman in Viet Nam. His entire property literally resembled heavy jungle - which he landscaped himself. He was a successful salesman in the medical industry. He was, however, not immediately friendly - took several years to build a relationship.
He had warned us not to set off fireworks on the 4th. Wouldn't you know, a visiting goofball buddy decided the "hell with it" and set off some fireworks. Dude flipped and went nuts. Almost pounded the door down. Started screaming "you're not the only one with guns - you want me to get mine?". Took a good 1/2 hour to apologize and convince him it was not gunfire and unintentional.
So, yeah, in my experience, it can set some guys off.
I'm sympathetic, but what if a car backfires? What if a tire blows?
If somebody really gets a bad case of the shakes, maybe take the wife to a nice hotel for the 4th.
Growing up in the early 80s I knew a lot of Vietnam vets, including some who had some unpleasant experiences. The 4th was never their favorite night, but they never put up signed asking people to not celebrate the 4th.
I just wish the locals would hang it up and midnight and not continue to pound us until 4am. Effin rednecks.
So your friend is ~BA ??
He needs to lighten up.
Friend is a very relative term when it comes to Facebook. I am friends with a lot of people I would prefer not to be because of my Political and Real Estate work. That is also why I can't just get rid of it.
Eurodriver
07-03-15, 14:44
Lived one door down to a guy who was a combat Corpsman in Viet Nam. His entire property literally resembled heavy jungle - which he landscaped himself. He was a successful salesman in the medical industry. He was, however, not immediately friendly - took several years to build a relationship.
He had warned us not to set off fireworks on the 4th. Wouldn't you know, a visiting goofball buddy decided the "hell with it" and set off some fireworks. Dude flipped and went nuts. Almost pounded the door down. Started screaming "you're not the only one with guns - you want me to get mine?". Took a good 1/2 hour to apologize and convince him it was not gunfire and unintentional.
So, yeah, in my experience, it can set some guys off.
Whether or not it sets anyone off is irrelevant.
If you react in that manner due to fireworks you need help far above what any preventative sign can provide you.
scoutfsu99
07-03-15, 15:27
Attention whoring bullshit is what that is.
I might have a reaction to the first few, especially if caught off guard, but this reeks of special snowflake syndrome.
It's the 4th. People set off fireworks. It's not like its a new phenomenon. I may not always enjoy my reaction but I don't expect people to cater to me either.
Friend is a very relative term when it comes to Facebook. I am friends with a lot of people I would prefer not to be because of my Political and Real Estate work. That is also why I can't just get rid of it.
Oh, ok, got it... I'm not sure what purpose the sign serves in reality but that initial reply and the one about PTSD service dogs.... what the hell problem could anyone have if a returning soldier gets a PTSD service dog? I wonder if all those that replied would consider going to the families of soldiers that returned and killed themselves. Would they be the great warrior that looks the parents in the eye and say your sons and daughters were weak and should never have served?
No good deed goes unpunished.
Whether or not it sets anyone off is irrelevant.
If you react in that manner due to fireworks you need help far above what any preventative sign can provide you.
I agree with your second sentence, as it could have eroded to a shoot out. This is even true with the normally "nice guy" but who is drunk and belligerent - under the right circumstances. There is a difference between enabling and diffusing a situation should it arise.
However, it is relevant as both my own (and I'm sure other's) experience show that there are some with PTSD (and this is not limited to combat Veterans BTW) who do respond to this sort of stimulus.
To make things CLEAR - IMO putting a sign out front is taking it too far. As with my neighbor, after a period of relationship building, he was open enough to reveal his issues person-to-person with explosions, etc.
I'm not sure what purpose the sign serves in reality
Yeah, that sign is basically a meaningless solution. The people on his street "might" see it, the people on the next street for 5 blocks setting off aerial mortars aren't even going to see it. And 5 blocks away or next door, the effect is about the same.
Of the people who even see the sign, 40% will probably completely disregard the sign and do whatever they were going to do anyway and figure 25% will engage in fireworks Armageddon because "who does he think he is to tell me I can't do whatever I want" types. I think that sign is going to backfire on him.
God knows I sympathize, nothing fascinates stupid rednecks more than loud noise. Fireworks, cars / motorcycles with no muffler and blasting shitty music. But these types are the last ones who will respect or show consideration for others and asking them to understand concepts like "basic courtesy" usually only makes things worse.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-03-15, 16:40
That's some Caitlyn Jenner nonsense right there.
Get help. Give your guns to a family member for a short time and get help. (To the guy in the picture that is more than likely seeking attention for being a vet).
Thank you Jack!
Combat Vet here.
Please be courteous with your gunfire: use a suppressor.
From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff
I think the signs are absolutely ridiculous. In my opinion they're people looking for attention. I wouldn't necessarily say man up. I think it. If you need help get it. Don't whine to the whole damn world about it. Do you job. Take care of your business.
I teach forensics in a Criminal Justice program.
Most will be going into a LEO career, and many are ex-mil.
LOTS of PTSD issues. Had one guy respond to a thunderclap by jumping out of his seat and running for cover during my lecture!
john
PS & FWIW - THE most common issue we have - and a minor one in the big picture - with the ex-mils is their "language". It's one thing to cuss like a longshoreman while in the heat of a confrontation - not so when talking to civvies in classrooms and elsewhere in the general public.
His house, his rules. He can put a sign up if he wants and it doesn't matter two licks what I, or anyone else thinks. Fireworks are gonna happen no matter what he, or anyone else thinks. World works much smoother when everyone practices a little tolerance
I could see that sign drawing undesired attention from some young assholes.
Averageman
07-03-15, 20:30
I could see that sign drawing undesired attention from some young assholes.
My sign say's "Pull up yer damn pants and stay off F'ing my grass.", I'm sure they have the same effect.
I have a feeling and this is just a guess, but I don't think the vets from Bastogne or Tarawa were putting these signs up in their yards, I'm just curious why they didn't need them?
Whether or not it sets anyone off is irrelevant.
If you react in that manner due to fireworks you need help far above what any preventative sign can provide you.
X100 on that one. Seek help.
Straight Shooter
07-03-15, 20:53
Ive always wondered if Al Qaeda...f the spelling I don't care...ISIS and the like do shit like this?
I think its attention/pity seeking bullshit and if I wanted to shhot guns and fireworks Id tell him to go **** himself.
I have a feeling and this is just a guess, but I don't think the vets from Bastogne or Tarawa were putting these signs up in their yards, I'm just curious why they didn't need them?
I would hazard a guess that some of those guys had some difficulty with fireworks and the like. Not saying they should have put up signs, but I'm guessing a few might not have got much sleep some nights.
I've seen a handful of vets who were truly shell shocked, it's not pretty. It's way beyond "I've been shot at a few times." If you are on the receiving end of sustained mortars or arty, it can make a lasting impression. And everyone is different, some people can shake it off in days, others never seem to shake it off completely.
He should have a sign that says "no Bar B Que please.... Fat Body in da house."
Me thinks there might be some "Photoshop" in play here. What's keeping that damn sign floating in mid-air? No wooden/metal stake supporting it. I just see a pair of legs protruding down behind it. Sometimes the "INTERNET" is there just to piss everyone off! Just sayin'. :D
Me thinks there might be some "Photoshop" in play here. What's keeping that damn sign floating in mid-air? No wooden/metal stake supporting it. I just see a pair of legs protruding down behind it. Sometimes the "INTERNET" is there just to piss everyone off! Just sayin'. :D
Look below the "E" and the "K", cheap wire sign.
My sign say's "Pull up yer damn pants and stay off F'ing my grass.", I'm sure they have the same effect.
I have a feeling and this is just a guess, but I don't think the vets from Bastogne or Tarawa were putting these signs up in their yards, I'm just curious why they didn't need them?
A lot of them may have needed them, but nobody told them it was okay/normal to have those issues. There is also the fact that unlike VN or the GWOT, those guys didn't fly home - most of them had to wait their turn for transport and then spent a week or so sailing back to America, this allowed for peer group decompression, which according to some of the stuff I've read, is the reason more weren't impacted.
As others mentioned, I don't think that sign is going to have the effect that this guy expects.
SilverBullet432
07-03-15, 22:47
Me thinks there might be some "Photoshop" in play here. What's keeping that damn sign floating in mid-air? No wooden/metal stake supporting it. I just see a pair of legs protruding down behind it. Sometimes the "INTERNET" is there just to piss everyone off! Just sayin'. :D
They are real.
brushy bill
07-03-15, 22:50
Never saw these signs from the greatest generation. They were there for the "duration" and not for 6 to 12 month tours. Attention seeking at its worst, a disservice to fellow vets, and unlikely to get the claimed result in any case. And yes, screams, "Please take my guns."
One of my friends just wrote about this tonight
http://www.breachbangclear.com/signs-of-veteran-entitlement/
http://www.breachbangclear.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/works.jpg
Look below the "E" and the "K", cheap wire sign.
Damn! That does it, I'll finally admit right here, right now, that I need to go to magnified optics on my AR's from now on. God, my eyes suck!
Averageman
07-04-15, 04:44
Damn! That does it, I'll finally admit right here, right now, that I need to go to magnified optics on my AR's from now on. God, my eyes suck!
Welcome to old age.
These signs piss me off for one specific reason. Id bet a good amount of money that 98 percent of the guys with those signs do not need them at all. ****ing frauds.
Im not trying to make myself out to be a badass because Im definitely not. But Ive seen a decent amount of combat. Are there guys during the GWOT who have done way more than me? **** yeah. A lot more. However I earned my ****ing CIB. First time I set foot in Baghdad, Saddam still ran the place. While a lot of the Iraqi Army rolled over and gave up there were still a large group of them who fought to the death.
When we first started rolling into the outskirts of Baghdad we took full on artillery barrages. Like bracketed and adjusted artillery barrages, fire for effect. In fact that artillery totally ****ed up our attack approach and everyone just bailed into the town and got us all intermingled with the ****ing Iraqis. That day was ****ing nuts. Fun... but nuts. In 2005 our main problem was IEDs. They were ****ing everywhere. I was told our AO in the Diyala province had over 400 IEDs during our year there. Because of that we always rolled out in Brads and tanks on route clearance because they could take the hits. The Iraqi Army units on the next door FOB took over 100 KIA because of those IEDs. Ive personally been directly hit by 2 in my vehicle, had another 2 close calls, and have been in the vicinity of probably another dozen unexpected ones. That was on top of our twice a week rocket/mortar attack. had one of those ****ers land close enough to me and a couple buddies that I felt the heat of the blast and got covered in dirt. Ive been shot at who knows how many times and Ive returned fire on several occasions with a M249, M16 SDM-R, and a M240B.
Because of that shit I do have some PTSD. I have occasional nightmares. Usually some variation of the artillery from 2003.... That shit was not a joke. Sometimes its a weird dream that Im back in highschool and the Iraqis attack like some Red Dawn remake. Im not sure if that has to do with the fact that I graduated highschool 10 months prior to my first combat experience, or the fact that I loved Red Dawn as a kid. Probably a mix of both. On a rare occasion Ill hear a weird pop or crack and for a split second, Im like "Oh shit sniper" or "incoming mortar". Specifically the big propane oven things that cook kettle corn at the zoo/fair. That propane burner sound very similar to a distant mortar launch. However the Oh SHIT moment is about a second long. And now I expect the sound whenever Im near a kettle corn machine and it doesnt bother me anymore. Its embarrassing if that happens around friends or family but the few people who have seen it understand. Its not a common occurrence by any means. Also occasionally a random piece of trash on the side of the road that I dont see until the last moment can make my heart skip a beat.
I initially felt really stupid and weak for having these issues. My combat experiences were not horrible. I never lost any close friends. Compared to the casualties some of these units were taking in Afghanistan in the last few years we came away with relatively few casualties. Though I contribute that to having the Bradleys in 2005 (IEDs chewed up Humvees pretty bad) and not having the kiddie gloves on in 2003.
Then I went to counseling..... Group therapy. I was thinking "Cool. Ill talk to some other dudes and maybe get more sleep". Then I actually started to hear the "war stories". Shit like "I heard a mortar round hit" and "the convoy after ours got ambushed" and other stuff like that. I know that can be stressful to some people but to start crying about that stuff? Come on. I know some people have serious mental problems but the great majority of these guys who proclaim loudly that they have PTSD badly come across to me as full of shit. I quit counseling after that. If I have problems I can talk to my brother in law about it. He was a Marine 0351? (SMAW gunner) in Fallujah in 2006. He has seen some shit. Hell he served with his cousin who was killed by a sniper right after they got there. I know he has some issues. But like me he deals with it and doesn't cry out for attention.
Sorry for the rant but this shit has been driving me crazy the last few days.
One of my friends just wrote about this tonight
http://www.breachbangclear.com/signs-of-veteran-entitlement/
I'm stealing this photo!
These signs piss me off for one specific reason. Id bet a good amount of money that 98 percent of the guys with those signs do not need them at all. ****ing frauds.
Im not trying to make myself out to be a badass because Im definitely not. But Ive seen a decent amount of combat. Are there guys during the GWOT who have done way more than me? **** yeah. A lot more. However I earned my ****ing CIB. First time I set foot in Baghdad, Saddam still ran the place. While a lot of the Iraqi Army rolled over and gave up there were still a large group of them who fought to the death.
When we first started rolling into the outskirts of Baghdad we took full on artillery barrages. Like bracketed and adjusted artillery barrages, fire for effect. In fact that artillery totally ****ed up our attack approach and everyone just bailed into the town and got us all intermingled with the ****ing Iraqis. That day was ****ing nuts. Fun... but nuts. In 2005 our main problem was IEDs. They were ****ing everywhere. I was told our AO in the Diyala province had over 400 IEDs during our year there. Because of that we always rolled out in Brads and tanks on route clearance because they could take the hits. The Iraqi Army units on the next door FOB took over 100 KIA because of those IEDs. Ive personally been directly hit by 2 in my vehicle, had another 2 close calls, and have been in the vicinity of probably another dozen unexpected ones. That was on top of our twice a week rocket/mortar attack. had one of those ****ers land close enough to me and a couple buddies that I felt the heat of the blast and got covered in dirt. Ive been shot at who knows how many times and Ive returned fire on several occasions with a M249, M16 SDM-R, and a M240B.
Because of that shit I do have some PTSD. I have occasional nightmares. Usually some variation of the artillery from 2003.... That shit was not a joke. Sometimes its a weird dream that Im back in highschool and the Iraqis attack like some Red Dawn remake. Im not sure if that has to do with the fact that I graduated highschool 10 months prior to my first combat experience, or the fact that I loved Red Dawn as a kid. Probably a mix of both. On a rare occasion Ill hear a weird pop or crack and for a split second, Im like "Oh shit sniper" or "incoming mortar". Specifically the big propane oven things that cook kettle corn at the zoo/fair. That propane burner sound very similar to a distant mortar launch. However the Oh SHIT moment is about a second long. And now I expect the sound whenever Im near a kettle corn machine and it doesnt bother me anymore. Its embarrassing if that happens around friends or family but the few people who have seen it understand. Its not a common occurrence by any means. Also occasionally a random piece of trash on the side of the road that I dont see until the last moment can make my heart skip a beat.
I initially felt really stupid and weak for having these issues. My combat experiences were not horrible. I never lost any close friends. Compared to the casualties some of these units were taking in Afghanistan in the last few years we came away with relatively few casualties. Though I contribute that to having the Bradleys in 2005 (IEDs chewed up Humvees pretty bad) and not having the kiddie gloves on in 2003.
Then I went to counseling..... Group therapy. I was thinking "Cool. Ill talk to some other dudes and maybe get more sleep". Then I actually started to hear the "war stories". Shit like "I heard a mortar round hit" and "the convoy after ours got ambushed" and other stuff like that. I know that can be stressful to some people but to start crying about that stuff? Come on. I know some people have serious mental problems but the great majority of these guys who proclaim loudly that they have PTSD badly come across to me as full of shit. I quit counseling after that. If I have problems I can talk to my brother in law about it. He was a Marine 0351? (SMAW gunner) in Fallujah in 2006. He has seen some shit. Hell he served with his cousin who was killed by a sniper right after they got there. I know he has some issues. But like me he deals with it and doesn't cry out for attention.
Sorry for the rant but this shit has been driving me crazy the last few days.
Well said.
Yes an 0351 is a SMAW Gunner.
http://terminallance.com/2010/07/13/terminal-lance-51-0351s-underused-never-appreciated/
Sorry for the rant but this shit has been driving me crazy the last few days.
First, glad you are well adjusted. I wish everyone who served came back as "shit together" as you or better.
Second, as far as the guys "in group"...either they really couldn't hack it or deal as well as you or they feel like they need sympathy and / or attention or possibly just looking to scam the system for benefits. Regardless, you are fortunate enough to be "none of those things."
Third, I hope you never feel embarrassed by lingering effects of combat stress. Those instincts / impulses are nothing more than muscle memory and internalization of things that kept you and others alive. Without them you might not be here. See them for what they are and appreciate your condition accordingly.
Hopefully you will find your way back to condition white...or at least light yellow.
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