Talk me out of (or into) a Leupold VXR 2-7X33 Ballistic Firedot

[Crow Hunter]

I have had and used a Aimpoint M4s for several years. I really like it. However, I have noticed that I am aging and my eyes just aren't what they used to be. I am having trouble with flaring and I think I may be developing astigmatism. It may be getting time that I need an etched reticle.:(

Anyway, the Aimpoint is getting harder and "less fun" to use.

I have used Leupold VX2 2-7X33 duplex scopes for even longer than I have owed Aimpoints for other uses. I have always liked them and I don't mind the distortion of 2X at close range. I can still shoot with them.

Just messing around online I noticed the VXR series of optics from Leupold.

Has anyone used the optic in question? Did you like it? Any issues?

I realize that I will be giving up quite a bit of what originally drew me to the RDS to start with, however, it is getting to the point that when I go to practice/play the frustration with the "dot" is outweighing the benefits.:mad:

[Jaysop]

I've looked at this optic recently as well. My use would be for more a long range use then a substitute for an RDS.

I think you would be much happier with the 1-4 version. I have that on my rifle. It's daylight bright and exellent quality. Best part is the dot is motion activated. for HD use I just leave it one and the dot is there when I need it.
I've had it for a year and just changed out the battery.

[GH41]

I also chose the 1X4 with the SPR reticle. The SPR ret is very fast even without the light on.

[SomeOtherGuy]

I've had this exact scope for a couple years and have used it in a 2-gun competition, as well as more boring range use. I bought it for similar reasons to what you describe - I can use red dots but simply don't like them.

Pros:
relatively good field of view
relatively good glass for the price
motion activated dot is a nice feature
fairly light
bump on the magnification ring makes magnification changes easier

Cons:
build quality doesn't impress, particularly the W/E adjustment knobs and the protective caps that go over them
actual magnification range is only 2.5-x6.6x, a range of only 2.64:1, pretty small zoom range*
thick chunky reticle, slightly better than if drawn with crayons

*specs are here if anyone wants to see for themself:
http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/vx-r-riflescopes/vx-r-2-7x33mm/

This is an OK scope but I don't think it's a very good value. There are a lot of really, really good 1-4x and greater (1-5x, 1-6x) scopes available now that don't cost much or any more and are more versatile. A 1-4x scope can do most of what a red dot can do, but it works better for people with imperfect eyesight, and the 4x zoom is very useful at any distances beyond 25-50 yards.

If you have a special fondness for Leupold, their VX-6 line has much more modern optics and is still very light and has the firedot as an option (but they start around $900). If you don't require your scope to be Leupold, you can find better offerings from other brands.

EDIT 7/8/15: I wondered if I was being too harsh on the VX-R so I got mine out to inspect it. The first thing that happened is that the rubber ring on the ocular (a rubber ring at the very end of the focusing piece) came loose, but could be retightened by hand. I stand by my comments on the dubious build quality - it's closer to Simmons and Barska in my experience than to anything halfway quality, and even a Burris Fullfield (their inexpensive base line) seems better put together. The SWFA SS and Burris XTR are in a completely different league, and even the Vortex PST is far ahead.

Looking outside, I am still impressed by the glass quality for the price - there is essentially no chromatic aberration even when looking at treetops against blue sky, one of the harshest tests for CA. I also saw reasonably good detail looking into forest shadows. The reticle is thicker than I'd prefer but is fine, so I take back that comment. The firedot is good, but its brightest setting isn't all that bright. The zoom range feels as limited in use as it looks on the spec sheet.

Overall, I think it's a good scope optically, but build quality holds it back from being a recommendation. I wouldn't even consider it for a primary home defense or duty rifle. For noncritical uses I think it's a decent scope, but I wouldn't want to pay more than $400 at most.

[Crow Hunter]

I've had this exact scope for a couple years and have used it in a 2-gun competition, as well as more boring range use. I bought it for similar reasons to what you describe - I can use red dots but simply don't like them.

Pros:
relatively good field of view
relatively good glass for the price
motion activated dot is a nice feature
fairly light
bump on the magnification ring makes magnification changes easier

Cons:
build quality doesn't impress, particularly the W/E adjustment knobs and the protective caps that go over them
actual magnification range is only 2.5-x6.6x, a range of only 2.64:1, pretty small zoom range*
thick chunky reticle, slightly better than if drawn with crayons

*specs are here if anyone wants to see for themself:
http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/vx-r-riflescopes/vx-r-2-7x33mm/

This is an OK scope but I don't think it's a very good value. There are a lot of really, really good 1-4x and greater (1-5x, 1-6x) scopes available now that don't cost much or any more and are more versatile. A 1-4x scope can do most of what a red dot can do, but it works better for people with imperfect eyesight, and the 4x zoom is very useful at any distances beyond 25-50 yards.

If you have a special fondness for Leupold, their VX-6 line has much more modern optics and is still very light and has the firedot as an option (but they start around $900). If you don't require your scope to be Leupold, you can find better offerings from other brands.

Being you have the same issue and have more experience than I do, can you point me in the direction of said optics?

Much appreciated!

[SomeOtherGuy]

Sure. In order of things I would actually want, not knowing your price range:

Burris XTR (gen2) 1-5x24. MAP $799, easy to find for $730, possibly less. Very good glass and absolutely terrific illumination - ultra bright at max, 11 settings, no flare below max. This scope overall is competitive at the $1k mark, but its illumination is the best I've ever used, with the next best being a $1800 Leupold Mark 6 (that had similar illumination but not as well executed). There are no significant drawbacks to this scope unless you are comparing it to $1400+ scopes, and it's still pretty good even then. I sold my Mark 6 and Razor 1-6x and got two of these.

Vortex Razor 1-6x, MAP $1400, can be found for $1260 or maybe less. Extremely rugged scope, and has the weight to claim it (25+ oz). Lots of people love the glass and the center dot, but I didn't like either one as well as the Burris XTR. It's a very solid scope and has a very wide field of view, which is nice. (Incidentally, the best glass in this category that I've used is the Mark 6, by a noticeable amount - but most have good enough glass that it doesn't matter for hitting a target.) The reticle is borderline small but is useable in most conditions without illumination, and the wonderful illumination makes up for the other 5% of the time.

Trijicon TR-24. Prices vary but last I knew DSG Arms was offering this with an ADM mount for $865 and there was a 10% discount available on top of that. This is a very light scope with excellent glass. Tritium and fiber optic illumination is great in most conditions, except when you're in a dark area looking into a bright area. Made in Japan (marked as such) with typical LOW-Japan quality and characteristics (the W/E adjusters, etc.). FOV is average, and reticle choices are limited with the triangle-post probably being the best choice but also a love-it-or-hate-it design.

SWFA SS 1-4x. Very solid scope that's aging a bit. Very good glass and rugged construction. Nice exposed turrets available with a whopping 47 mils of elevation adjustment on one of mine. No major downsides, although battery life seems short. Not a deal at the $799 normal price, but if you can find it for $600 or less, it's a great scope. I have bought two at under $600. Watch the SWFA Sample List or the classifieds on this and other forums.

The above scopes I would have high confidence in their durability and ruggedness.

Leupold VX-6 1-6x24. A very lightweight scope with a true 6x range, wide FOV, and that nice firedot. It also has a similar lightweight/flimsy feel as the VX-R. To my eyes the glass was slightly better than the Razor gen2. Street price in the $900 ballpark, and from what I understand Leupold has a huge mega-colossal discount for military and LE, if that helps you.

Vortex Viper PST 1-4x. Also aging a bit. MAP $499 but you can probably do better. Good everything except the reticle is really small. Vortex warranty (great). Not my first choice, but a solid value.

Burris MTAC 1-4x and Fullfield TAC-30 1-4x. Lower priced scopes ($299ish if you can find a TAC30). Reticle is too thick but is useable. Good illumination and glass considering the price.

If $730 or so is in the budget you will not be disappointed with the XTR Gen2 1-5x. I would also watch for a good deal on the SS 1-4x.

[Crow Hunter]

Sure. In order of things I would actually want, not knowing your price range:

Burris XTR (gen2) 1-5x24. MAP $799, easy to find for $730, possibly less. Very good glass and absolutely terrific illumination - ultra bright at max, 11 settings, no flare below max. This scope overall is competitive at the $1k mark, but its illumination is the best I've ever used, with the next best being a $1800 Leupold Mark 6 (that had similar illumination but not as well executed). There are no significant drawbacks to this scope unless you are comparing it to $1400+ scopes, and it's still pretty good even then. I sold my Mark 6 and Razor 1-6x and got two of these.

Vortex Razor 1-6x, MAP $1400, can be found for $1260 or maybe less. Extremely rugged scope, and has the weight to claim it (25+ oz). Lots of people love the glass and the center dot, but I didn't like either one as well as the Burris XTR. It's a very solid scope and has a very wide field of view, which is nice. (Incidentally, the best glass in this category that I've used is the Mark 6, by a noticeable amount - but most have good enough glass that it doesn't matter for hitting a target.) The reticle is borderline small but is useable in most conditions without illumination, and the wonderful illumination makes up for the other 5% of the time.

Trijicon TR-24. Prices vary but last I knew DSG Arms was offering this with an ADM mount for $865 and there was a 10% discount available on top of that. This is a very light scope with excellent glass. Tritium and fiber optic illumination is great in most conditions, except when you're in a dark area looking into a bright area. Made in Japan (marked as such) with typical LOW-Japan quality and characteristics (the W/E adjusters, etc.). FOV is average, and reticle choices are limited with the triangle-post probably being the best choice but also a love-it-or-hate-it design.

SWFA SS 1-4x. Very solid scope that's aging a bit. Very good glass and rugged construction. Nice exposed turrets available with a whopping 47 mils of elevation adjustment on one of mine. No major downsides, although battery life seems short. Not a deal at the $799 normal price, but if you can find it for $600 or less, it's a great scope. I have bought two at under $600. Watch the SWFA Sample List or the classifieds on this and other forums.

The above scopes I would have high confidence in their durability and ruggedness.

Leupold VX-6 1-6x24. A very lightweight scope with a true 6x range, wide FOV, and that nice firedot. It also has a similar lightweight/flimsy feel as the VX-R. To my eyes the glass was slightly better than the Razor gen2. Street price in the $900 ballpark, and from what I understand Leupold has a huge mega-colossal discount for military and LE, if that helps you.

Vortex Viper PST 1-4x. Also aging a bit. MAP $499 but you can probably do better. Good everything except the reticle is really small. Vortex warranty (great). Not my first choice, but a solid value.

Burris MTAC 1-4x and Fullfield TAC-30 1-4x. Lower priced scopes ($299ish if you can find a TAC30). Reticle is too thick but is useable. Good illumination and glass considering the price.

If $730 or so is in the budget you will not be disappointed with the XTR Gen2 1-5x. I would also watch for a good deal on the SS 1-4x.

Thanks!

I used to have a TR24. I didn't like the triangle post and it was a little on the heavy side. I actually had it before I got the Aimpoint. I also didn't really like the FSP visibility (I have a 6920) at 1X. It was somewhat problematic in with a high sun and low magnification.

I have a VX II 2X7 on one of my M&P 22s just to try it out. I don't really notice the FSP on 2x at all.

You have given me some things to look at. I may try to take a trip somewhere and take an actual look at that Burris.

Actually, before I get too carried away, I might just stick that VX II from the M&P onto the 6920 just to see how it works out.

As an aside, I played around last night with my Aimpoint M4s. Something has definitely changed with my eyes, without my glasses the dot looks like a cornucopia and pretty much takes up 1/2 the optic. Looking at a doorknob from 15 ft away through the optic completely obscured the doorknob. With my glasses, it was normal 2 MOA dot. Without, it was a giant 20MOA blob of individual dots. Looked like a mangled EOTECH reticle. So the M4Ses (I have 2) are going on the EE no matter what. Now I just have to figure out what I can replace it with that is useable.

Getting older SUCKS!

[SomeOtherGuy]

The 2-7x should give you a good idea of how you like it.

I have mixed feelings on the triangle-post but since I'm using it in place of a RDS, not a precision scope, I find it OK. I also don't like seeing the front sight post in my view, which is why I tend to use scopes on rifles that don't have one. You could take the sight post part of the FSB off your 6920 if you wanted to (though some would cry blasphemy) with a Dremel, angle grinder and/or bench grinder. People do it all the time to fit a pinned FSB gas block inside of a free float rail.

As far as weight, the TR24 weighs on 14.4oz which is very light by quality scope standards - I'm not aware of much I'd want to own below 12-13 oz, that being certain Leupolds. The typical QD mounts for a 30mm scope weight 8-9oz, or more, which adds a lot of weight. AeroPrecision makes a quality non-QD mount that weighs only 3oz. That would let you get a heavier, better scope and save weight in the mount.

If you didn't like the weight of a TR24, I can guarantee that you would not like a Razor 1-6x in a typical QD mount.

[Discount]

[QUOTE=Crow Hunter;2146113]Being you have the same issue and have more experience than I do, can you point me in the direction of said optics?
You said below:
SWFA SS 1-4x. Very solid scope that's aging a bit. Very good glass and rugged construction. Nice exposed turrets available with a whopping 47 mils of elevation adjustment on one of mine. No major downsides, although battery life seems short. Not a deal at the $799 normal price, but if you can find it for $600 or less, it's a great scope. I have bought two at under $600. Watch the SWFA Sample List or the classifieds on this and other forums.

My question is when you said SWFA SS 1-4 for $799.00, are you talking the 1-SWFA 1-4 HD, because now they have the SWFA 1-4 standard, not HD for $400, and the 1-4HD has been discontinued.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Oh my a necropost!

Anyway, I was referring to the discontinued SWFA SS 1-4x, and have no experience with the 2019 current model.

A lot has changed in 3.5 years. You can find the Burris XTRII for under $500 at Natchez, for example. Cabela's has the Vortex PST gen2 1-6x for $550, which is a great deal. The Minox ZX5i, a sleeper (and also aging somewhat itself), is also in the $400-500 range at Natchez, EuroOptic and others. There are other deals also. I would disregard most of the info above unless you are looking at older scopes for some reason, like a trade offer etc.