View Full Version : What's the cheapest BUIS you'll run?
For me, it's a cut down carry handle since it's usually part of the cost of the gun.
But, let's say your rifle/upper didn't come with a carry handle. What's the least expensive BUIS you'd feel comfortable running? I'm thinking Larue BUIS for $90 (http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=29) but then again I pretty much only buy these or the Troys, so I'm not up to speed on everything that's available out there.
Any thoughts? I don't care if it's fixed or folding.
I'd buy a BCM carry handle and cut it down.
The few extra bucks over that Larue thing is worth it to me to have a real field sight with full adjustability.
Gutshot John
07-21-08, 08:37
Do you guys have pics of a cutdown carry handle?
I'd buy a BCM carry handle and cut it down.
The few extra bucks over that Larue thing is worth it to me to have a real field sight with full adjustability.
I don't really care at all about that level of adjustment for what it is.
With that said, I think if I was going to cut down a carry handle I'd look for someone selling a used one and try to get it cheaper.
Do you guys have pics of a cutdown carry handle?
Not the best pic, but there's one on this gun
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/DSC_1865-cropMedium.jpg
Gutshot John
07-21-08, 08:48
Not the best pic, but there's on on this gun
Good enough for primetime.
I was mostly interested to see if you kept the full rail attachment or cut it off.
That looks like a pretty slick, cost-effective, option.
With that said, I think if I was going to cut down a carry handle I'd look for someone selling a used one and try to get it cheaper.
I thought you had your COLT's?
Did you sell them, or not want to cut on an OEM part that could be sold for good value.
I thought you had your COLT's?
Did you sell them, or not want to cut on an OEM part that could be sold for good value.
Lots of factors. I do have one Colt that's not cut, and one (in the pic above) that is.
I'm looking to put together an inexpensive but top-quality complete gun for loaning out etc. BCM upper, basic furniture, (Moe grip!) C3 in mount, etc. Not opposed to throwing the sight from the picture above on the gun, but want to incorporate the build into an article for my website and want to assume someone is starting from scratch.
Failure2Stop
07-21-08, 08:59
I'm looking to put together an inexpensive but top-quality complete gun for loaning out etc.
rob_s- patron saint of the M4!:p
I agree with you on the LaRue for $90. Assuming that someone will have the skill and access to the tools and materials to properly cut-down a carry-handle is more ofa reach than I would feel comfortable with when advising a new or prospective user.
rob_s- patron saint of the M4!:p
He must be stopped.
Assuming that someone will have the skill and access to the tools and materials to properly cut-down a carry-handle is more ofa reach than I would feel comfortable with when advising a new or prospective user.
Good point.
Having no experience cutting carry handles the cheapest buis I would run is LaRue.
For loaning out, I'd go with the Larue for the simple fact that there's the least possiblity of the Loanee screwing it up, fubaring the zero, or otherwise taking a high-interest loan from the Murphy's Law Bank of Karma that could bite you later.
For loaning out, I'd go with the Larue for the simple fact that there's the least possiblity of the Loanee screwing it up, fubaring the zero, or otherwise taking a high-interest loan from the Murphy's Law Bank of Karma that could bite you later.
Another excellent point.
For loaning out, I'd go with the Larue for the simple fact that there's the least possiblity of the Loanee screwing it up, fubaring the zero
Fubaring the zero is easily remedied. Take your A2 sight that you have zeroed and run it all the way left while counting the clicks.
That way, if anyone every messes with your zero, you simpley run the sight all the way left and then come back right 42 clicks (for example) and you're good to go without having to re-zero.
I'm inclined to have new shooters learn Irons before they jump onto dots. It doesn't HAVE TO be this way. But I do get tired of seeing how bad people shoot with irons in class. Some shooters should be embarrassed at their marksmanship skills. :(
Having no experience cutting carry handles....
Hacksaw.... spray paint...... done. I think with this one I used a belt sander to hit the top edge, but thats nothing that needs to be done.
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Optics/CCH-1-cheap-one-Stick.jpg
Hacksaw.... spray paint...... done. I think with this one I used a belt sander to hit the top edge, but thats nothing that needs to be done.
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Optics/CCH-1-cheap-one-Stick.jpg
Saw? Sander? What are these devices you speak of?;)
I'd go LaRue, MI or YHM for a folder. It doesn't matter Rob, it's a loaner. Just locktite it on and apply some witness marks and run it. It's not rocket science.
BravoCompanyUSA
07-21-08, 10:28
Cutting a extra carry handle down is good way.
Other options:
Fixed: LT BUIS, $89
Folding: MI ERS, $93.95
bullitt5172
07-21-08, 12:00
For a fixed rear, I also like the LaRue. I prefer it over a cut down CH because there is no knob in the way to get in the way.
thespyhunter
07-21-08, 12:39
I have an RRA stand alone. Similar to a LMT tactical, just different mounting screws.
I too like the LMT or Larue fixed sights.
-RD62
CarlosDJackal
07-21-08, 14:33
I have a $60 flip-up BUIS that is very similar in looks and function to the GG&G MIAD on my two SBR uppers. I don't remember where I bought them from, but they've both held zero very well. Would I take either of these into combat? Probably not. But they have survived being my trunk rifle for the last couple of years now. YMMV.
Larue BUIS, but I would try the new Magpul based on their reputation.
Cut carry handle BUIS.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/AMMOTECH/STA76444a.jpg
What about a <$50 Matech? I've never used one but they are Govt. issue and they seem to pop up allover the place for cheap.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg168/joey86_2008/MatechBUIS1.jpg
IrishDevil
07-21-08, 19:20
The only options I'd consider:
Fixed: Larue
Folding: Troy
The chopped carry handles work well, but I don't like A2 sights. I consider them target sights and not combat sights. I'd be fine with it for a loaner or range gun.
The only options I'd consider:
Fixed: Larue
Folding: Troy
The chopped carry handles work well, but I don't like A2 sights. I consider them target sights and not combat sights. I'd be fine with it for a loaner or range gun.
What is the difference between a fixed Larue and a chopped carry handle?
:confused:
The Larue looks to be an A2 type sight. (I have never seen one in person though).
What is the difference between a fixed Larue and a chopped carry handle?
:confused:
The Larue looks to be an A2 type sight. (I have never seen one in person though).
Cleaner, no elevation?
You have to pay $114 for the 'Same Plane'.
The only options I'd consider:
Fixed: Larue
Folding: Troy
The chopped carry handles work well, but I don't like A2 sights. I consider them target sights and not combat sights. I'd be fine with it for a loaner or range gun.
The A2 is a combat sight. :rolleyes:
Most, if not all, guns on this site are "range guns". Think about it...;)
I would not mind having an A1 type solid BUIS. I use a 50 yard zero so I don't mess with the drum on my A2 anyway.
.
What is the difference between a fixed Larue and a chopped carry handle?
:confused:
The Larue looks to be an A2 type sight. (I have never seen one in person though).
LaRue is closer to A1 in design -- windage adjustable only, adjustable with coin or cartridge rim. Stock model features dual plane apertures, they also offer a single plane aperture setup for about $30-35 additional. Pretty much bomb and idiot proof when it comes to dorking with settings or damaging the sight. If you're OK with fixed, and you aren't hung up about about a lack of elevation adjustment, it's the best deal going (price, quality).
Chopped carry handles are GTG also, but they feature A2 adjustments. The benefit is you get elevation adjustability, although many question the value of that, especially for a BUIS. The downside is knobs are exposed and can get adjusted out of whack, either though malfeasance (the asshat who picks it up and says "What are these for?", while spinning them), or due to knocks. And unless you mark them with witness marks, there's a good chance you won't notice they've moved.
IrishDevil
07-21-08, 20:51
The Larue is more of an A1 style with windage only, no elevation. It also eliminates the windage knob, using a recessed dial.
The difference in price between a LaRue and a Troy BUIS is not enough for me to not go for a Troy. The sight is bombproof and versatile...
bullitt5172
07-21-08, 22:04
The difference in price between a LaRue and a Troy BUIS is not enough for me to not go for a Troy. The sight is bombproof and versatile...
$50 is a pretty big difference if you don't need a flip sight, both are bombproof.
IrishDevil
07-21-08, 23:08
I'm quite aware the A2 is a combat sight. That doesn't mean it's a good combat sight. I'm not LEO or .mil, but have talked to friends in the service who have said the A2 does break and lose zero. More specifically I think it's too complex for use as a BUIS. In my opinion all firearms are range guns until used otherwise, how else do you train. These are my opinions and not the "gospel".
The A2 is a combat sight. :rolleyes:
Most, if not all, guns on this site are "range guns". Think about it...;)
I would not mind having an A1 type solid BUIS. I use a 50 yard zero so I don't mess with the drum on my A2 anyway.
.
decodeddiesel
07-22-08, 11:28
The A2 carrying handle was my PRIMARY sight for some time during my first tour in Iraq after my M68 went down hard. I had a KAC BUIS on my weapon too, but removed it and just went back to the A2 carrying handle when I learned it could be months before I would get a new M68. I never once had a problem with it breaking or for that matter loosing zero even when it was getting the shit kicked out of it getting tossed around my vehicle, wrapped around a Haji's skull, or just generally abused the way a Grunt's rifle is. I never EVER adjusted the rear drum, not once in my whole career. I always zero'd the thing just the way the TM calls for, leaving it on 300/600 then adjusting my windage on the rear knob and elevation on my front site post.
During daylight, in a good supported position, every shooter worth a shit can hit a man sized target at 200-250 yards in a couple seconds. This is the bread and butter of the Army Q course. Sure at night, out in the open on longer range shots it was a huge limitation not to have a RDS, but I got around it that's what tracers are for. In the dark, in a building I actually learned to love the Surefire/Irons combo and I got fast as hell with it. For daylight shooting CQB, Irons can be very fast (learn to shoot the "cross").
The A2 is sure as hell a "combat proven" sight platform. Remember the first Mk18s had chopped carry handle A2 BUIS behind the M68 in a Wilcox or PRI mount. The Navy thought it worked pretty damn well and got LMT to make a "factory chopped carry handle" rear BUIS. I love having a RDS, and I love my TA33-8 ACOG even more, but when it comes down to it the Irons still work just fine, and the A2s are rugged enough for 99% of the shooters out there.
$50 is a pretty big difference if you don't need a flip sight, both are bombproof.
Agreed - but for me personally, the Troy sight is more versatile...
The A2 carrying handle was my PRIMARY sight for some time during my first tour in Iraq after my M68 went down hard. I had a KAC BUIS on my weapon too, but removed it and just went back to the A2 carrying handle when I learned it could be months before I would get a new M68. I never once had a problem with it breaking or for that matter loosing zero even when it was getting the shit kicked out of it getting tossed around my vehicle, wrapped around a Haji's scull, or just generally abused the way a Grunt's rifle is. I never EVER adjusted the rear drum, not once in my whole career. I always zero'd the thing just the way the TM calls for, leaving it on 300/600 then adjusting my windage on the rear knob and elevation on my front site post.
During daylight, in a good supported position, every shooter worth a shit can hit a man sized target at 200-250 yards in a couple seconds. This is the bread and butter of the Army Q course. Sure at night, out in the open on longer range shots it was a huge limitation not to have a RDS, but I got around it that's what tracers are for. In the dark, in a building I actually learned to love the Surefire/Irons combo and I got fast as hell with it. For daylight shooting CQB, Irons can be very fast (learn to shoot the "cross").
The A2 is sure as hell a "combat proven" sight platform. Remember the first Mk18s had chopped carry handle A2 BUIS behind the M68 in a Wilcox or PRI mount. The Navy thought it worked pretty damn well and got LMT to make a "factory chopped carry handle" rear BUIS. I love having a RDS, and I love my TA33-8 ACOG even more, but when it comes down to it the Irons still work just fine, and the A2s are rugged enough for 99% of the shooters out there.
:D
Thanks. That is the reason I have a cut carry handle. They work.
.
sonrider657
07-22-08, 19:27
YHM's BUIS is reasonably priced and very solid.
How about the new Paul Howe sight? XS Systems stocks for under 50.00 IIRC.
I do like the LaRue BUIS, but this time it was about frugality. Aside from the huge knob on the side, this is now my favorite BUIS.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk3/testudo13/IMG_1405-1.jpg
Cav Arms Stand Alone Rear Sight
MSRP $65
Monkey Simple.
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