View Full Version : Why and when
Why would you want to use a shotgun vs carbine ?
To shoot birds.
In what situation? HD? SHTF? TEOTWAWKI? Zombies? Patrol? Entry Team?
Probably would get better answers in the tactics forum.
The short version and my opinion...
Shotgun for less lethal. Carbine for most else.
-RD62
Jay Cunningham
07-21-08, 22:49
Moved to T&T per suggestion.
Setting aside task-specific roles such as less lethal, breaching, etc. the shotgun's advantages are:
A shotgun is substantially less expensive. A half-decent pump shotgun with light and good sights will cost hundreds less than a basic AR before adding light, etc.
The manual of arms for a pump shotgun, while prone to user error, is relatively simple to learn and execute.
The lethality of the shotgun is rarely subject to debate the way .223/5.56mm is. While both are certainly more than capable of getting the job done, for short ranges typical in, e.g., home defense it's hard to argue that the 12g isn't equal to (if not superior to) the 5.56mm.
Depending on the political and judicial winds in your jurisdiction, shooting someone with a duck gun is going to raise fewer eyebrows than shooting someone with a tac'd out "M16 rifle."
Failure2Stop
07-22-08, 06:07
Ballistic Breaching
Less-Lethal (virtually 0 HD application)
RLEOTB (Real-Life Event Of "The Birds")
Hunting for deer+
Probable Public Exposure (shotguns are more media friendly than EBRs)
Skeet Shooting
Defeating Cover
breaching
birds
you don't a carbine available
Halo
Thanks for the input .Im not in LE so other than a 3 gun match , if I ever have to use something itll probably be with a pistol
Submariner
07-22-08, 19:32
Shotgun = Turkey gun
With an Aimpoint.:D
Robb Jensen
07-22-08, 19:36
Shotgun = Turkey gun
With an Aimpoint.:D
Sweet! I'm getting ready to install a Dr. Optic on my Benelli SBE with an Arrendondo mount.
In the defensive roll, alot of people don't know the true capabilities of the shotgun.
Does it have it's limitations, of course it does. It's a tool just like any other platform.
But utilized within it's boundries and it's unequaled in effectiveness.
The Federal tac load is outstanding with a regular barrel, close proximity shots are easily made.
Jay Cunningham
07-22-08, 20:22
Halo
Awesome.
Sweet! I'm getting ready to install a Dr. Optic on my Benelli SBE with an Arrendondo mount.
Once complete, we expect pictures!
:)
Based on my limited experience with my 14" Benelli, they're great. We use a couple of them for entry work. The reason being that it puts threats down quickly. For this we use tactical 00 buckshot. I have seen these rounds hold 8" groups at 25 yards, so you can imagine what they will do at 5. We also carry a lot of slugs and they are very accurate even at distances of 50 yards. Over-penetration is a concern, but I have been told by several Tactical Instructor's that when using the buckshot it is not a problem? I personally have never shot a person with the shotgun, so I can't say for sure. BUT I feel very comfortable using it for CQB work so long as an extended firefight didn't ensue. It just doesn't hold enough rounds. I would be interested in hearing the opinion of say LAV on this topic.
Also when shooting through glass or even a wall if you had to I think the 12 gauge slug would be superior to a carbine, at least a 223/5.56 carbine.
I keep both a shotgun and a carbine in my patrol vehicle. I am required to keep my carbine in the trunk and a shotgun is a big improvement over a pistol if I have to exit the vehicle under fire.
I also prefer the shotgun for entering apartments. I have had several armed suspects surrender, and later admit that they did so because they saw the shotgun. In reality the spread of 00 or #4 buck at 10 feet is almost non existent. The perception among most on the streets though, is that the pattern is so huge it can't possibly miss.
However, I have been in situations where I deployed with my shotgun and found out it was the wrong tool for the situation. If there is any chance of a hostage situation, the carbine is a much better choice. If you are in LE and carry a shotgun, please have a sling and practice transitioning to your handgun. You will very likely need this skill at some point. I have.
WOW!
I clicked on this thread expecting the monumentally retarded replies that you get on TOS! Generally shot gun threads draw out the major league window lickers.
But no one here posts that bird shot out of a .410 is all you need for home defense!
WOW!
I clicked on this thread expecting the monumentally retarded replies that you get on TOS! Generally shot gun threads draw out the major league window lickers.
But no one here posts that bird shot out of a .410 is all you need for home defense!
You just did. ;)
HolyRoller
08-09-08, 14:45
If you are in LE and carry a shotgun, please have a sling and practice transitioning to your handgun. You will very likely need this skill at some point. I have.
That's the first time I can recall seeing this thought posted anywhere, as elementary as it is. You make me glad I dropped over $100 for a GG&G side sling mount set and a shorter stock. Except the stock, when I tried to put it on, turned out to be for the wrong model shotgun, so I need to get around to returning it. One thing I've found is that a slung-across-the-front shotgun, with the aft sling swivel between the receiver/stock boundary, is butt-heavy and wants to roll forward. When I get the definitive stock, I'll see if this can be worked with, or whether I just need to sling it from the buttplate.
I was inspired to consider this a few months ago when I first knew I was headed to a department that allows only shotguns, not rifles, so I decided to brush up on shotgun doctrine. The only fighting shotgun resource I have is Mas Ayoob's Stressfire II, which has some good thinking points in it, but was written before the days of good 2-point slings, when your transition options were (1) shotgun in one hand, pistol in the other, (2) drop shotgun, (3) throw shotgun at enemy--that way you won't have to fumble with it and all he will have is an empty or jammed shotgun. :confused: mm-hmmmm, anybody actually tried that?
TEOTWAWKI. That is fricking hilarious. Almost spit all over the computer.
To shoot birds.
In what situation? HD? SHTF? TEOTWAWKI? Zombies? Patrol? Entry Team?
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